#I SEE MUTUALS POST SIMILAR ALL THE TIME IDGI

[skunkes]

[matan4il]

I loved your OUAT meta and was curious your thoughts on a different couple. One of my favorite books and movies is Fried Green Tomatoes. Just finished a rewatch actually. It always slaps me so hard that to me Idgy, Ruth and Buddy are Buck, Eddie and Christopher. Was curious if you have read and watched it and your thoughts on the parallels.

Awww, Nonnie! I’m so happy to hear that you enjoyed my Buddie vs Captain Swan meta! :D

But what are you doing to me, asking me to compare Idgie, Ruth and Buddy Jr. to Buddifer? I love it! I even had to make a whole gifset for it, in addition to a couple of gifs for this post. Okay, fair warning to everyone, there be spoilers under the cut... There’s also a gifset to go with the meta!

I have to admit, while I think the performances in the film are great, I prefer the novel. For one thing, when I first watched the film, I wasn't crazy about adult Idgie falling for her deceased older brother's girlfriend. It just opens up a few uncomfortable questions that the movie never addresses, such as is Idgie just a replacement love for Ruth since the guy she actually wanted died? It’s at least a real possibility due to other changes as well, like how the story about the ducks flying away with the frozen lake is Idgie’s in the novel, but the movie turns it into a story invented by Buddy, so all she ever does is just repeat it, just be a reflection of him. I have to say, the idea of two grieving people comforting each other and falling in love in the process is not awful, depending on how it’s handled it can actually be uplifting, but for that to be the case, this aspect has to be tackled so that we'd know that eventually, Ruth and Idgie's love story will be their own and not just a substitute. But the movie never does broaches this subject. That kinda bugged me the first time I watched it, and still, seeing Idgie and Ruth together is so heartwarming, I ended up embracing them despite having that initial issue.

But imagine my joy when I finally got to read the novel and discovered that Ruth never even met Buddy. When she spends time with Idgie? It's because she chooses to. It’s not some act of charity to help the troubled little sister of a dead boyfriend! In the novel, Ruth realizes that there's no one she wants to be with more than Idgie. And I love that! I think they both deserve that. It also means that when Ruth's son is named Buddy Jr., that can't be interpreted as her never fully moving on from Buddy, she didn’t know him! Instead, it’s a clear reflection of her love for Idgie and the baby being their son. Which to me is really similar to Buck, Eddie and Christopher, who also choose each other and to be a family, again and again.

And in fact, he is recognized as such! Unlike in the movie, where it’s just implied, in the book we have people like Dot Weems who publishes her weekly newsletter and explicitly refers to Buddy Jr. as Ruth and Idgie’s son. Given the very public nature of this, it implies not just her personal acceptance of the three of them as a family unit. It shows the town of Whistle Stop overall must have accepted them. And yes, this is absolutely so much like Buck, Eddie and Chris, who aren’t only a family unit, they’re also pretty much recognized as such. It’s in things like Hen in 317 talking about everyone including their spouse and her including in that Buck inviting Eddie, or the way Chim in 414 talks about Buck being there with Chris when Eddie was shot like it’s a given.

That brings me to another point. The book is much more explicit about Ruth and Idgie falling in love, which is a blessing in itself. It’s also far more mutual. The movie gives us a very clear ‘oh’ moment for Idgie when she’s obviously struck by the knowledge that Ruth is about to get married. Their time together is about to come to an end and realizing Idgie’s about to lose Ruth, something obviously clicks. It’s arguable whether we get one for Ruth. When she says maybe she should move out, the conversation (despite no one else being there) is not in romantic terms, and in fact Ruth suggest that maybe if she leaves, Idgie would settle down (implied to mean she’d marry a man and have kids). Which at least suggests that even within a queer reading, maybe they’re living their lives together simply settling for being life partners, without ever crossing the line into romance, despite being in love. IF we do have an ‘oh’ moment for Ruth in the movie, it’s during the trial, when she seems to maybe reach an insight on the stand and states in front of everyone that she loves Idgie (prefaced by calling her ‘best friend’). This reading can be seen as supported by Idgie’s own shocked expression at Ruth’s words, as if this is something she’s not used to hearing. Since Ruth dies of cancer a short while later, if that was indeed her moment of recognizing her own feelings, it would mean their relationship was only consummated for a very short while, if ever. The novel, however, makes it more evident that they were fully aware from pretty much the start of how they felt, were totally committed to each other from the second Ruth left Frank, and it never gives us any reason to think they didn’t fully realize their relationship. That gives them about 22 years of knowing they were in love with each other, and 18 years to live that love together.

I’m not sure if Buck and Eddie have had their ‘oh’ moment yet, but... If Idgie’s in the film is that panicked realization of possibly losing her other half forever, and Ruth’s in the book stems from the same understanding, I think we see something very similar in the expression on Buck’s face when he is forced to watch Eddie collapsing before him.

On top of that, in the book Idgie's mom not only makes it clear to her kids that Idgie is in love with Ruth, she also says in no uncertain terms that she expects them to treat their sister kindly, basically showing incredible levels of acceptance. I think that's just so freaking marvelous and not at all what I expected for a character realizing that she's raising a gay daughter in the 1930's. Of course, the novel itself was published in 1987, but it also has a contemporary character, Evelyn (whose story begins in 1985) allowing herself to be emotionally detached from her son when it's suggested to her that otherwise, he might grow up to be gay. So that highlights just what an exception Mama Threadgoode was in general, and especially given her time. This very much reminded me of Bobby, and how many of us read him as knowing and approving of Buddie since as early as 201.

In the book, on the day Ruth realizes she's in love with Idgie, there are two things I wish they had kept in. The famous scene with Idgie getting Ruth honey, going untouched by the bees, takes place. First, I wish they had kept Ruth admitting she doesn't know what she would do without Idgie. It gives the whole scene a different, more profound tone IMO. We have Ruth both amazed at what Idgie can do (nicknaming her “the bee charmer”) and terrified over realizing she could have gotten herself killed. This is Ruth’s ‘oh’ moment in the novel, explicitly so. The second thing I wish they hadn’t cut out is the tail of their conversation, when Idgie states that she would kill anyone who might ever hurt Ruth. True to her Christian (and “good girl”) values, Ruth doesn’t like that idea. So Idgie relents and says that instead, she's willing to die for her. But Ruth doesn't believe anyone would ever really put their lives on the line for anyone else. Yet, by the end of the story, we know that Idgie was willing to do just that. Someone else killed Ruth's abusive husband, but Idgie was willing to take the fall for it, quite possibly be sentenced to death for this crime. It's her contribution to what someone else had done to keep Ruth and Buddy Jr. safe from Frank. It’s Idgie fighting for her family and her loved ones, but also proving that she does exactly what she promised Ruth she would. Andit shows that, in spite of Idgie’s wild ways and anti-church stance, she’s that person who actually embodies Ruth’s values.

And I think this absolutely is so very much like Buddie, where we know that they would die for each other. With Buck, it’s been explicitly stated and shown. With Eddie, he knows exactly how reckless and self-endangering his husband can be, and he still goes wherever Buck does. In other words, that daredevil, reckless nature is something Idgie and Buck share, as well as that deep devotion and willingness to fight and to sacrifice for their family. Ruth and Eddie, as their counterparts? Roll their eyes, but clearly also adore and appreciate them, understanding that this stubbornness and recklessness comes from a place of deep caring. Eddie basically says as much in 414, when he tells Buck that he knows no one would ever fight as hard for Chris and that this is exactly what he wants for his (their) son.

Another commonality is that not only do we have two same sex couples raising together the child that one partner had biologically with a former spouse, the kid in both cases has a significant physical limitation (Chris has CP while Buddy Jr. has lost an arm), yet both are explicitly said to never complain, and both sets of parents are very encouraging of their child to live their lives to the fullest in spite of their disability. Fried Green Tomatoes even implies that Idgie is able to be a better parent to Buddy Jr. thanks to being queer, because she too knows what it’s like to be different than everyone else. So we have her, the non-biological parent, fighting for Buddy Jr. to be able to fulfill himself just like all the other kids. That’s exactly like Buck in 312, in direct opposition of Ana’s advice, encouraging Eddie and helping him find a way for Chris to be able to live his dreams despite his disability.

The novel makes it clear just how much Idgie and Ruth loved and missed each other while they were separated. Idgie would drive at least once a month (later once a week) all the way from Alabama to Georgia in order to see Ruth from afar, or even just to see Frank since he was a link to his wife, solid proof of her presence. Meanwhile, the book tells us that Ruth thought of Idgie every single day and missed her to the point of pain. She stayed with Frank even as he turned out to be a violent and abusive husband (to say the least) because she believed he could somehow sense her love for Idgie. Ruth felt guilt over it, and accepted Frank’s abuse as if it were justified by her emotional infidelity. I felt that was very poignant, showing us just how destructive the results of homophobia, including of the internalized kind, can be. And while Eddie staying with Ana is not quite as extreme, there is something about the sense of duty and guilt, the need to do the “right” (i.e socially expected) thing, that kept him there which I think is very reminiscent of Ruth. And it’s also very much like Buck who feels he should be with Taylor given she’s the first girlfriend who hasn’t left him, as if he has also bought into the idea that this is what he’s meant to do in life, find a gf and settle with her even if he’s miserable.

Now, you might notice that for the most part, I’m trying to stick to what is canon in the book, but clearly when adapting it to the screen, they realized they needed to show us a bit more of Ruth and Idgie’s married life ('coz yeah, that is exactly what they were, even if they never got to have a wedding). They’re partners in life and at work. And then we get that scene where they get to be playful with each other as well in the kitchen. Jon Avnet, the director, explicitly said that this scene was meant to be a metaphor for sex. So they take in what that means for Buddie’s own playful scene that starts in the kitchen in 309... we keep saying there is no straight explanation for it, because there literally isn’t!

One last connection, because a geek’s gotta geek. Ruth’s character is obviously named after the biblical one. In the Bible, after Ruth loses her husband, she vows to stay by his mother’s side instead of going back to her own country. She promises Naomi, “Where you will go, I will go and where you will dwell, I will dwell. Your people will be my people and your God will be my God. Where you will die, I will die and there I shall be buried. So will Go do to me and so he will add for [only] death will separate between you and me.” (Ruth 1:16-17). In case you think that she’s just being a good (ex) daughter in law, Orpa is also shown to be a good, caring ex daughter in law to Naomi, she cares, she cries when she has to leave. In fact, Naomi states that they were both good daughters in law. But at the end, Orpa does go back home. Not Ruth though, who in verse 1:14 insists on staying with Naomi. That’s where we’re also told that Ruth clung (דבקה) to Naomi. Now what’s interesting about this specific verb in Hebrew is that it only appears in one other place in the Bible: “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and he will cling (דבק) to his wife and they will become one flesh.” Yep, the only biblical connotation we have for this verb is one that is explicitly related to a romantic relationship. That’s why there are many queer readings of Ruth and Naomi, who have been adopted by some queer women as biblical counterparts.

Meanwhile, Buck’s birth name is Evan, which is a variation of John. In the New Testament, Jesus has a Beloved Disciple and the most likely identification of that person is John the Apostle (the disciple whom Jesus loved is only ever mentioned in the Gospel of John, and while this person isn’t named, the text states that this disciple is the author of that very gospel). Jesus, knowing he must leave, instructs his mom and the disciple he loves to become each other’s mother and son, effectively turning John into kind of an adopted brother. In the Song of Songs, when the narrating woman can’t openly be with the man she loves, she yearns for him to be like her brother, so she could walk down the street and kiss him without being socially scorned (Song of Songs 8:1). We know John is someone who was asked by Jesus to abandon his bride in order to follow him. There’s a verse (John 13:23) that, if translated literally, states that during the last supper, the beloved disciple was reclining in Jesus’ bosom. On top of all that, the apostles were all prophesied an awful doom. Peter, about learning of his own demise, demands to know what would be the fate of the beloved disciple. Jesus replies, “If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you?” (John 21:22). Did the 911 pilot writers (who are the show creators) intend for this when they chose Buck’s name? IDK, but the queer vibes from Buck go back to 107 at the latest, so maybe it was something that was playing somewhere in the back of their minds. 602 def tells me the 911 writers think long and hard about the names they choose for their characters, even minor ones, and at the very least one of the show creators is Ryan Murphy, an openly gay man, who’s probably been around long enough to be aware of the well known queer reading of Jesus and John.

OK, as a bonus, some tidbits you might not have known! Fannie Flagg, the author, has had long term relationships with women. In writing this book, she was partly inspired by her own great aunt running a cafe with a couple of her friends (it’s still active to this day and you can find it where Flagg grew up, the town of Irondale, Alabama). Fannie was born Patricia Neal. At the end of the novel, a Neal family with their little girl Patsy runs into a character who isn’t named, but is clearly an elderly Idgie (who we know left honey and that loving note at Ruth’s grave in Whistle Stop that Evelyn finds), living with her brother Julian’s family in Florida.

In conclusion, I actually find it fascinating that the movie, which was released four years after the book was published, is a lot more ambiguous. Because at the end of the day, it does expect many, if not most, of its viewers (even back in 1991) to understand the nature of Idgie and Ruth’s relationship, even though it’s not explicitly stated. And to realize just how many of the things we see between these two women in the film apply to Buddie as well, then no wonder that in 2022, we’ve reached a similar conclusion about these two men. It’s absolutely to be expected based on the story 911 has been telling!

Thank you so much for the request, Nonnie. I hope you enjoyed this! If you’re interested, you can find more of my content on my blog. Thank you in advance for any kindness and support! xoxox

[geniuslab]

5 mutuals and say something nice about them too much negativity! Let's spread some positive vibes!

only 5? :( 

but yes, i love this!! this makes my heart so warm :’) 

i have to post this under a read more because it’s kind of long

@mylovejhs rachel, my soul sister, where do i begin?? rachel means the world to me, she is always so sweet and caring. i can talk to her about anything and there’s no judgment. she’s definitely listened to me rant a few times and has always been so patient and so levelheaded. she’s also hilarious, and i love talking to her because she can always make me laugh. we don’t always make the best decisions (*cough* amazon shopping sprees *cough*) but we have plenty of laughs about it. and even though i joke that we’re bad influences on each other, we’re still really responsible irl and know how to talk each other down if we have to lmao. i call her my soul sister for a reason, and that’s because we are so similar and i honestly feel like she understands me better than most. plus she finally admitted to being an ot7 stan, welcome to the family!! haha. i really, genuinely hope i can meet rachel some day. i wish we lived close to each other because without a doubt rachel would be my best friend. we would just hang out, watch bts videos, and sit on our laptops while listening to music together. best friendship ever imo. ilysm rachel

@velvethoseok kate!! i don’t think i’ve ever said this but i honestly think of kate as a little sister. and i mean that in the nicest way possible, like i love kate so much and i want to look out for her. we bicker sometimes but it’s all out of love :) kate can put me in my place tho lmao. we don’t talk quite as much as we used to and i highkey miss kate a lot. @ kate message me more i want to talk to you. even if it’s just about hobi. speaking of which, i’ve said it before and i will say it one more time: i sort of blame kate for making me fall in love with hobi. i was already stanning him when i became friends with kate but she posts so much about hobi and loves him so much that i think it spread to me and now look at me, he’s my ult fnhkfdnhkfdh. kate was one of my first friends in the fandom, we started talking because i messaged her about all of the gushy posts she’d tagged hobi in one night and from the very beginning she was super sweet and friendly! and it’s so genuine, too. kate really does care about her friends and that’s such a wonderful quality. thank you for making this fandom a kind place for me, kate. and thank you for being my friend, even if i’m a grandma :’)

@jinandtonics steph and i have been mutuals for probably...4 years? 5 years?! we didn’t start really talking until several months ago, and i somewhat blame steph for getting me into this bts mess because she was posting about them and was part of the reason why i looked up bts in the first place. steph: oh haha sorry about all the kpop i’ve been posting latelyme: it’s okay, i don’t mind seeing cute boys on my dash!!flashforward to 2 weeks later, me: yes that’s yoongi’s ear and i can tell because--anyway, steph has been there for me a lot and sometimes i feel really guilty because she’s helped me through so much and i don’t know how i could ever return the favor. i’ve been going through a rough time these past couple years but steph met me during a particularly bad rough patch and she supported me the entire time. if you’re looking for a loyal friend who will genuinely care about you, steph is it. plus she’s hilarious and writes really great tags haha@pansugah nkhnfdhkfdh i love sara with my whole heart. i am so glad we became friends. we met in one of our nets and i think i eventually private messaged her because i was like “i want to be friends with sara let’s make this happen” and she somehow is still putting up with me after all this time. we haven’t even known each other for that long, but i feel like i’ve known sara forever. she’s so sweet, i think in one of our first convos i overshared a little bit lmaoooo but i didn’t scare her away and she was so kind the entire time and even shared her own stories which helped. i really appreciated that, like so much. also sara is literally the only thing that kept me sane during that stupid bias game, our chats about how much we “love guk so so so much” made me laugh and also kept me sane. sara is so incredibly talented too, like everyone needs to check out her art. it honestly blows my mind how crazy talented she is. ily sara!!

@taepott of course i couldn’t leave out dijah, my heart :’) i think i’ve gushed about dijah so much on this blog that everyone is probably tired of hearing it but i really love her. i still cannot believe she asked me how to make gifs as an excuse to talk to me when someone had already taught her like 2 weeks prior. what is this, a 90s romcom?? nkfnsfknkn dijah and i fake fight a lot and she’s the best person to fake fight with ever. there is no such thing as tmi between us oh my gOD the convos we’ve had. it’s really nice to have a friend that i can literally share anything with and that (from what i can tell lmao) feels the same way too. i like to keep things positive, but i know that if i need to vent or be petty i can go to dijah and she will listen with open ears and open arms haha. i’m not trying to be one of those people who’s like “wow i hate myself how could anyone love me” but i legit don’t know why dijah likes me so much?? idgi but i’ll take her word on it. dijah and i are really similar sometimes and SUPER different at others (*cough* one of us has too many emotions and the other...) but i think it works because our similarities are what make us bond and our differences help us balance each other out. at least that’s my best guess. anyway this is getting long but im love dijah and i’m so happy she made me waste an hour teaching her something she already fucking knew so that we could talk.