#HoYay

[teruel-a-witch]

while i was making my mcdanno+sunsets graphic i tried to google steve's quote about two guys on the beach watching sunsets, the first result was @stephmcx's post about 10x19, but it was the second that amused me greatly

(unsurprisingly there's a whole separate page dedicated to the examples of HoYay in h50 on TVtropes, if you don't know what HoYay means here's the main article)

the entire article is psychic damage worth of reading when it's all laid out so plainly even tho it only covers 8 seasons and isn't even very complete but here's the rest of the blurb that google matched to the search

nice to know it wasn't just me who thought the sunset setting is romantically coded.

steve and danny assigned not just romantic, impossibly romantic by google/TVtropes and the universe from the pilot. (not to mention the whole they dig each other bit)

[peterlorrefanpage]

Chapter 24 is up!

We last left our Elizabethan men cozy in the living area before a fire. . .

No single memory of getting from there to here, just impressions and heartbeats—  Poffy pouring himself onto Edmund and pressing him down into the chair. Edmund’s shirt tugged open at the collar, lips sucking along his collarbone. Poffy’s hand running down his body, palming his clothed member, swallowing Edmund’s gasp with his mouth.  Edmund’s hands smoothing along Poffy’s back, caressing the curves of his belly swelling out at each side. Poffy moving down, sin-drenched glance up from beneath his brows, wet trails of tongue dampening Edmund’s breeches where his cock strained for release, long obscene scenting of Edmund’s musk.    Reaching down only for Poffy to twist away with a tantalizing chuckle, holding out his hand for Edmund. Kissing their way into the hall half-carrying each other, jesting about trying to walk while hard (so very hard), Poffy’s face intense and laughing.   Then the sound of the door closing behind them and all the world was gone except for here.  “Light the candles, love,” Poffy whispered as he let go of Edmund to bar the door.  A little shaft of moonlight had crept in from the crack where the shutters didn’t completely align. As Edmund coaxed the candles alight, he thought how beautiful it would be to lay Poffy down in that fine strand, to see him by touch more than sight, to feel his way toward making him howl. For a moment, he longed to throw the shutters wide and take his lover with the full moonlight silvering their skin and disappearing into pools of darkness where their bodies met.  But Poffy was coming toward him, stalking him through the flickering candlelight and the warm, soft shadows, the love and desire in his eyes just like when Edmund had fantasized with the mask, only here, now, it was so much more.

Go here for the Peter Lorre-inspired-OC/Blackadder II fanfic.

Warning: Explicit. :)

[fanfic-thesis]

This was way more interaction than expected :o But now: EXPLANATION TIME!

"Hoyay" or "Ho yay" or "HoYay!" is short for "Homoeroticism yay!". I don't know if the word itself existed before, but it was thrown into the world of fandoms in 2001 and could be read on Television Without Pity (website with Infos about different TV series and a discussion forum). Long story short: A recap for an episode of Smallville is the starting point for hoyay.

Hoyay, in contrast to queerbaiting, has a mainly positive connotation. Hoyay highligts and celebrates the existance of homoerotic subtext. Which makes it an interesting descriptor for me.

These days it should be the standard to allow creators to include openly queer characters, story lines, romances and much more in their works. But that does not always mean that it will be stated clearly and non-ambigous as it can make a story much more interesting if you tell something like this between the lines.

Queerbaiting describes the aspect of creators hinting on including queerness to generate interest of a broader fan base and include it at the last possible second in the worst way possible, or not at all (common known examples: Supernatural, BBC Sherlock). But using queerbaiting feels wrong if the homoerotic subtext is there from the beginning, and just not the main plotpoint, or the characters take it slow (think about Good Omens). And hoyay is a neat short descriptor for this.

Depending on how it is used, hoyay is not without issues. (For example: Originally it was only meant for male homoeroticism, and the term "Les yay" was created for the female equivalent.) But might be interesting to bring the term back for some use cases. At least I found the idea interesting.

If someone wants to read more about it:

Hoyay! on Fanlore

Ho Yay on TV Tropes

Queerbaiting: The 'playful' possibilities of homoerotcism by Joseph Brennan (The Article uses BBC Merlin as an example. It is not officially as a free fulltext version online rn, but it is an interesting read and it is easy to request the PDF. I also own the pdf. Just as an information.)

Johnlock meta and authorial intent in Sherlock fandom: Affirmational or transformational? by Melissa A. Hofman (Article discusses inspiration that may emanate from perciving a work in an by the creators unintended way.)

Good Omens isn't queerbaiting, here is why by Katharine McCaine (A blog article, that explains what exactly is the issue about people calling something queerbaiting just becaus it is subtile.)

Have fun reading!

Quick question

I did some more academic reading about fandom and ...

Bonus points if you comment (or tag) where you heard the word "hoyay" and in which contexts you're using it.

[hestzhyen]

An Extremely Subjective HakuHiro Romantic Trope Breakdown

Greetings, void. This arc is rough and the brainworms won't let me write my own hurt/comfort fan fiction- they demand half-baked analysis instead of lovemaking. So have the closest thing that passes for fluff from yours truly.

In essence, this is just a list of the explicitly romantic tropes I love applying to HakuHiro with varying degrees of gushing ship babble as justification. Some are definitely skewed hard towards headcanon but there's always at least a tenuous connection to something that's demonstrated in the work itself. Proceed if this kind of brain rot sounds like your jam! Otherwise just please let me die from cringe in peace.

Battle Couple

Offense and support working in perfect harmony.

So this is just one of my personal favourites, but Chihiro and Hakuri definitely have strong vibes for this trope. They fought together in an absolutely stunning display of mutual trust and understanding in the Rakuzaichi Arc. Seriously, these guys pulled off some truly spine-tingly good moves to take down Kyora despite Hakuri only just awakening to his powers the very same day.

They demonstrated this again in the train fight protecting Uruha- Hakuri and Chihiro only need the bare minimum of communication between them to fight in style. I look forward to more chances for them to show off their teamwork! If they end up fighting back-to-back in canon I'll probably just straight up ascend to fudanshi heaven on the spot. I LOVE BATTLE COUPLES.

Love at First Sight/Rescue Romance

"This is the kind of man I need in my life."

Love at First Sight is pretty self-explanatory: person A sees person B and immediately falls head over heels. It's easy to slap that on Hakuri in his introduction chapter- he's only missing an invitation to get to know each other over some coffee when they finally meet up, really. Unless asking someone to help you kill your family is the Kagurabachi universe's equivalent...?

As for Rescue Romance, it's another very simple scenario: person A is saved by person B, which causes them to fall in love. Chihiro saves Hakuri with the other random people at the site of Sojo's massacre attempt, and Hakuri... yeah. You get it.

I think there's a better trope to associate to this later on in the list, but Love at First Sight and Rescue Romance are still apt and very funny tropes to apply towards Hakuri's first impression of Chihiro. The way he waxed poetic over the mystery samurai who saved and inspired him had me in stitches. Seriously, my oldest notes on Hakuri from that chapter are mostly just laughing about him being really passionate about Chihiro for someone who's not intended to be a love interest! Go get 'im, Hakuri. He needs you in his life just as much as you need him in yours.

Mindlink Mates

Don't need to hear each other at all if you just "get" them.

This is something I like to apply as a Fanon concept based on what happens in canon. Hakuri and Chihiro aren't literally linked mind-to-mind via telepathy, but both of them have a deep understanding of what the other's thinking and feeling at any given moment. I really like the concept that they understand everything about each other on an instinctual level. It's mostly fueled by the Aun concepts that have been associated to them, which I'll get into during a later section. But yeah. Hakuri and Chihiro being borderline telepathic in how they can sense the other's status. That's crack cocaine to me and it's not too far removed from canon so I'm running with it.

I also really like the idea of their strong emotions and desires bouncing off of and amplifying each other's, but I don't know if there's a specific trope for that, so it gets placed here at the end of this tangentially related section. Also not something far removed from canon given how they both fuel each other's self-destructive savior tendencies because they feel the same way!

Moe Couplet

They're so cuuuuuuuuuuuuuute

A Moe Couplet is essentially a pair of characters that enhance each other's cute traits. Separate, they are perfectly fine individuals with their own appeal. Together, they are adorable and capable of some tooth-rottingly sweet moments. This trope isn't typically associated with romantic duos in stuff aimed at general audiences, but it's common in BL as the basis for "fluff" works and wholesome pairings.

This is probably the biggest stretch to apply towards canon on the list, honestly. We haven't seen that much moe moe action from Hakuri and Chihiro- they're kind of busy fighting for their lives or hurting themselves to save others most of the time. But the few moments we get send me straight into cuteness agression-induced brain rot every time I think of them.

Most of this trope label for HakuHiro comes from little details. Like Chihiro often being shown reassuring Hakuri, and Hakuri getting some of the sweetest smiles out of him in return. Hakuri brings out Chihiro's soft side when Char's not around to do so and Chihiro helps Hakuri be his absolute silliest. These guys are are so good to each other! They melt the ice around my cold, dead heart into a slurry of hnnngh and incoherent shipper screeching.

What's it actually based on though? Well, I thought I was just doing normal delusional fudanshi things by thinking Hakuri is extra cute when he's around Chihiro and vice versa. But then Hokazono-sensei threw me a bone in an interview by saying he intended for Hakuri to "bring out Chihiro's personality and add some cuteness". And I. Just. I exploded into confetti on the spot. MOEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

One True Love

This ship is not merely an OTP to me, if you haven't noticed.

Note: "ai" is not inherently romantic despite it being the end-goal of pretty much every romance novel out there. It's for deep, profound affection felt for someone- friends, family, even pets. It's rare and not commonly said aloud outside of the climax of a love story is all!

This is mostly tied to Hakuri's experience with love growing up and how he can find out what 愛 [ai, purest and deepest love], really means.

Hakuri probably has no fucking clue what love of any kind is really supposed to look or feel like, much less the ultimate form of it. His father threw ai around as something to manipulate his children into serving the family tradition. Soya used it as an excuse to torture him. This was deliberately done to contrast with the love that Chihiro knew growing up- true ai between father and son, which was cruelly ripped away from him.

So let Chihiro teach Hakuri, and Hakuri provide in return. They're already each other's perfect partners anyway so just put a romantic spin on it!

Hakuri finding unconditional love he doesn't fear in Chihiro and Chihiro finding the same in Hakuri once more. Neither of them ever needing to fall in love again because they slot together so perfectly to fill the gaps in each other's hearts. Oh I'm gonna die...

Opposites Attract

If not meant to be canon, why colour coded as opposite compliments? :thonk:

This is the trope that activates a primitive part of my brain that overrides all thoughts with eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee noises when it comes to HakuHiro. Hakuri and Chihiro are true opposites that are perfectly balanced to contrast and compliment each other, resulting in a duo greater than the sum of it's parts.

Hokazono-sensei made his intentions about Hakuri and Chihiro extremely clear by going so far as to colour code them for us. This is the protagonist and his foil/deuteragonist guy who is Important as Fuck. The level of detail in designing and writing them reads like he took this trope extremely seriously and said "let's save the Hero + Lancer coding for Hiyuki instead". 'Cause as much as I love her, Hiyuki's got nothing on Hakuri when it comes to this trope. Her thing is closer to being the same person as Chihiro with the opposite frame of mind and mode of expression- it's Hakuri and Chihiro who are the true manifestation of Opposites Attract down to the tiniest details. I'm ready to die on this hill so come at me and put me out of my misery.

I mean just look at these guys:

Chihiro: black and red, stoic, reserved, serious and polite, slim and straight profile.

Hakuri: white and blue, emotive, outgoing, silly and casual, loose and boxy profile.

They invert the same ways under pressure; Chihiro stresses and falters while Hakuri focuses and buckles down. Their fucking backstories are in on it too: they both lost their father's love but under distinctly opposite circumstances. Even the love they received was contrasted since Kunishige was a perfectly wholesome dad while Kyoura used love in an abusively manipulative way! And that laid the foundation for the premise of the Rakuzaichi arc- Hakuri wants to destroy his family's legacy while Chihiro still wants to do right by his. It would take a whole 'nother post to list everything between them because every single detail about one is carefully crafted to be present in the other in order to complete their characters. It's absolutely insane and it's what really sold me on the ship.

The level of care put into writing Hakuri and Chihiro as opposites who complete each other is out of this fucking world. I'll feel sorry for whatever girl gets assigned to be a mandatory heterosexual love interest for either of them because there's just no way to compete when two people are written to be so thoroughly intertwined with each other.

(To clarify just in case: I don't think Chiyuki is a bad ship. I'm not trying to trash it and say HakuHiro's better or more legitimate somehow. I just have an issue with shounen romance in general because the girls don't get nearly as much narrative effort to make them compelling companions to the MC compared to the "best friends" and Kagurabachi is doing nothing new in that regard so far. Hokazono-sensei can actually make a bigger impact by refusing to tease Chihiro and Hiyuki at all instead of going down the tired old path of obligated sub-par heterosexual ship tease/romance IMO.)

The Power of Love

Nice Heroic Second Wind you got after thinking about Chihiro there, Hakuri.

So this is definitely skewed towards pure delusion on my part, but that's what we're all here for anyway. Power of Friendship? Never heard of it.

Basically, person A uses their love for person B to power up and overcome the hardship they're facing. In this case, I'm interpreting Hakuri's tendency to think of Chihiro when he's in dire straits as romantic!

Hakuri comes in clutch a lot and his feelings abut Chihiro are the reason he can do it. The memory of his samurai refusing to yield gives Hakuri the strength to keep standing and finally put Soya down in chapter 36. He does it again in a sadder way in Chapter 58 when he thinks of Chihiro and musters the last of his strength to summon him too late to save Uruha. I have no doubt that he'll have more of these moments as the series goes on, too. Chihiro is kind of hope incarnate to Hakuri.

Chihiro's drawn strength from his feelings for Hakuri too, but not in a pinch kind of way like the Power of Love trope typically implies. I'm just waiting for the day when it's his turn to use memories of Hakuri to keep standing (never gonna happen)!

Ship Tease

Putting this here for lack of a better term, but there's a running gag about Hakuri and Chihiro's relationship that's been escalating in intensity since the early parts of the Rakuzaichi arc. It only comes across in bits and pieces in English compared to Japanese, sadly, but I'll do my best to explain it.

Basically, I'm interpreting the jokes about Hakuri acting like a dog as deliberate ship tease for the lols from the author.

"Paw. Shake. Good boy."

It starts in chapter 28 with Hakuri dropping everything he's doing to run over to Chihiro when his name is called. It's really cute and funny and not something that can get lost in translation- Chihiro calls, and Hakuri comes. Just like a loyal dog to it's master.

It's set aside for a while until the Sword Bearer Assassination Arc starts up and Hiyuki drops this banger during the trial in chapter 46:

"But where he [Hakuri] stands is a big pain in the butt. He's not the one calling the shots." - official TL

Of note is the term Hiyuki used to say that Chihiro's the one in charge: 舵取り [kajitori]. The normal meaning for it is "steering a boat" or "helmsman" with the secondary being leader/director, so it's not like the English TL messed up. Same meaning different wording. What's lost is the subtext: 舵取り as Hiyuki's using it can also imply that Chihiro's in charge of Hakuri like the owner of a dangerous guard dog would be lmao. Hakuri kind of earned that jab after threatening to leave her in the storehouse to die if she hurt Chihiro, though.

And then there's this completely unnecessary scene from Ch. 50...

"Who's this? This little squirt smells like Chihiro, but he's not Chihiro."- official TL

The TL again isn't bad here but it really downplays just how fucking weird Samura is (which downgrades the rocket propellant to mere ship fuel). Samura's phrasing about Hakuri smelling like Chihiro was so batshit insane in Japanese that fellow JP shippers felt compelled to reach out to the rest of us in English to let us know, which is almost completely unheard of.

Basically, Samura wasn't saying that Hakuri merely smelled like Chihiro. He actually said that Hakuri was wearing Chihiro's scent, completely enveloped in it to the point of smelling identical to him. A native JP reader (in the link above) said that in their interpretation, the word "まとって [matotte]" isn't really used for friends, but more for lovers, family members, or dogs and their owners in the sense that being so physically close all the time causes their scents to rub off on each other.

It's not a normal term used to describe smelling like someone in the first place. When Samura meets younger Chihiro in the flashback and says he "reeks of Rokuhira", he uses the typical word for "smell/scent" (香り [kaori]) in Japanese. So for some reason we just had to know that Hakuri smelled like Chihiro in the way dog or a lover would, huh... so much so that Samura thought he actually was Chihiro... (I can't get over this, it sends my sides into orbit every fucking time).

So yeah. That's some top-tier ship tease if I do say so myself. What that dog doin'? What did they get up to on the train before meeting with Uruha? That's for us to decide!

Soulmates

It's not exactly hard to see that Hakuri and Chihiro have a bit more going on between them than standard friendship or brotherhood, even for a shounen series. Even some dudebros acknowledged this before the fandom gave over to homophobic trash anyway.

It all stems from Hakuri invoking one of the most potent romantic tropes there is as soon as they meet:

"That day, a samurai lit my helpless existence on fire."

Jesus Christ Hakuri, that's some passion!

I think the "soulmates" trope is the most fitting description of what's going on between Hakuri and Chihiro from the very first time they meet. I'll even go so far to say that it actually has a pretty damn good case for being canon in a platonic sense!

For the uninitiated (like I was), the soulmates trope is invoked when two characters feel a strong and immediate connection upon first meeting each other. It can be one-sided or even completely rejected by both at the start, but they will always find their way to each other since they are fated to be. The whole world falls into kilter when they get together even if they were perfectly functional people on their own before. HakuHiro is this trope to a fucking T in my mind. Absolutely flawless execution, 10/10 no notes.

Hakuri's part is obvious- he sees Chihiro and decides he must have this amazing person in his life no matter what. He feels the pull of destiny and answers the call with an overabundance of enthusiasm.

Chihiro's part is more subtle. He does the one-sided rejection thing at the start by running away, but fate pulls them together via circumstance and he takes Hakuri back with him. And somehow, for some reason, Hakuri is the first person he opens up about his genuine feelings to in a surprisingly raw way:

"If I don't do something, and a sacred blade takes the lives of innocent people... I wouldn't be able to bear that..."

He met the guy minutes ago, tried to run away from him, then decided to bear his heart to him in the elevator. Chihiro's a natural stoic who doesn't show much of what he's feeling and generally keeps thoughts like this to himself. But Hakuri brings out this softer, more vulnerable side to him that no other character has before. Then as the arc progresses, Chihiro comes to rely on Hakuri more and more until it's crazy to think that he ever ran away in the first place. It's like they were always meant to find and save each other.

I'm not looking too hard at this with shipping goggles strapped to my face. We get confirmation that this is what's going on with them via The Word of God Himself:

From the Volume 4 description: 一方、兄からの愛と暴力によって地に伏した伯理。今際の際に脳裏を過ったのは、ある少女との日々だった。極限の中、二人の少年の魂が呼応する。

"Meanwhile, Hakuri is struck down by his brother's love and violence. On the brink of death, he remembers the days he spent with a certain girl. In the midst of this extreme tension, the souls of both boys resonate with each other."

The last sentence is basically more total harmony/Aun imagery for Hakuri and Chihiro. 呼 (ko) means to call and 応 (ou) means to respond. Together, 呼応 means to act in concert. So Hakuri and Chihiro's souls call out and respond to each other in perfect sync when they're in dire straits. It's canon!

If that's not enough, then there's also the Aun imagery. It was left out of the EN Chapter 38 colour page as usual (never gonna forgive the EN version for removing the text), but basically the author used deliberate religious imagery to tell us that Chihiro and Hakuri have an inherently harmonious relationship. A and Un, in perfect sync- whatever one starts, the other will finish. The beginning and end of all things. A perfect pair.

They demonstrate this lethal effectiveness by working in tandem during the storehouse fight, with Chihiro only needing to yell Hakuri's name for Hakuri to perfectly interpret everything he's thinking and execute on it flawlessly. It's absolutely insane stuff even if we disregard Hakuri only woke up to his power less than an hour ago in-universe isn't it?! And they repeated the stunt the next day while protecting Uruha, so it wasn't just a one-off for a cool moment. It's core to their dynamic for their souls to resonate in total harmony!

And just to top it off, we got a funny little gag of Chihiro and Hakuri passing out and waking up at the same time side-by-side after the auction, totally in sync.

All of this within a week of meeting each other.

Some actual romantic soulmate couples don't get this much effort put into coding their relationship, just saying. I also don't think people would be so quick to jump on the sibling interpretation after Shiba's "What are ya, twins?" joke if Hakuri and Chihiro were a heterosexual ship option, just sayin'.

Unknowingly in Love

No sad pictures of dead Kunishige in this post!

This is another one that's far closer to fanon than canon. It banks on the fact that both of them grew up isolated and, quite frankly, probably poorly socialized compared to the rest of the world.

Chihiro lived with just his dad in a remote mountain home and only occasionally visited the town nearby with Shiba. No friends, no school even. Hakuri lived on the secluded Sazanami estate surrounded by his family and saw some of the outside world, but likely only the criminal elements of it. Plus there's the whole growing up only knowing love as something abusive and manipulative thing; even his parent's marriage was strongly implied to be arranged and joyless. Neither of these guys have anything decent in their personal lives to reference from!

So in my mind, while Hakuri and Chihiro have certainly heard of romantic love and thought about it themselves, they wouldn't really have an idea of what it feels or looks like to them. Couple that with being each other's first friends ever and you've got some extremely potent fluff (or angst) about them being unaware that what they're feeling isn't platonic.

You Are Worth Hell

I will follow you into the dark.

And to round things off, one of my favourite romance tropes ever! But it's not canon at all- YET.

You see, Hakuri and Chihiro are constantly pulling each other forward. When one stumbles, the other's there with a helping hand. But what happens when one descends into hell like Chihiro says he's doing this very arc? Will the other try to throw them a lifeline and hope for the best?

Nay! The other will stay by their side out of love.

This trope can veer too close to toxic situationship scenarios for comfort, it's true. Characters staying to "save" someone or letting themself get dragged down at their own expense is not healthy at all. But the core sentiment of this trope is that anything is bearable if you're with the one you love. The emphasis isn't on the mutual suffering but rather the comfort of being together despite it all.

My personal interpretation of the relationship between Hakuri and Chihiro is that one was born in hell (Hakuri) and the other has condemned himself to it (Chihiro). Hakuri's trying to rise up while Chihiro has consigned himself to sink further into the darkness. They met at at a crossroads on their respective journeys and are walking together for a while. And when Chihiro takes a turn to keep going further down, I think Hakuri will stop him from going too far. Hakuri will be the light in the gloom until the mission's over. Then they'll figure out if they can make it back up or not. And if they can't? Well, he was already at rock bottom before Chihiro came into his life. It's worth it to stay in hell at his side and face everything together.

So I think this can apply very well to HakuHiro as the current arc progresses. Hakuri choosing to stay as a partner to provide support rather than trying to save Chihiro at his own expense would be huge character growth for him. And Chihiro accepting Hakuri's gesture would be growth for him too- he doesn't have to do this alone. There's no truly Bad End for their stories if they are walking side-by-side to face the hardships together until the end.

That's it. If you got through all this, thanks. Yap at me about tropes I missed! I love hearing the myriad ways other people interpret this ship. Unless you think fixed left-right boring seme/uke stereotype ChiHaku is the only valid interpretation, in which case we can never be friends. Sorry not sorry.

[spoonstrek]

God, House and Wilson walking into work like they hooked up and feel awkward about it but actually it was screaming, crying, vomiting, pissing and shitting themself, cursing each other out and sharing the last of the pain medication is just peak Hilson. This is sex for them.

They're terrible and I love them so much.

[pekiacyunn]

asking for a spoon of your ice cream hehe

[thrilling-oneway]

Idol games are annoying as hell because they do queerbait but then they also have intentional queer subtext and no matter which one of those it is they’re probably just doing it to get your money.

[olderthannetfic]

OTNF, do you have an example of a show or other work that actually legitimately queerbaits the audience?

Because I know what queerbaiting is, and I know that all the examples I seen thrown around are acutally examples of queer coding, queer subtext, or of a popular fandom ship simply being a ship instead of being canon, but I can't actually think of anything that actually is queerbaiting.

And I know a commenter is about to chime in with the BBC Sherlock show. So I'll preempt it by saying that that one is a fandom ship and the show itself has less queer subtext or coding than most adaptations, even if it has more dumb gay jokes.

--

In my opinion, the number of shows that did this in canon is functionally zero.

The closest real example is that Teen Wolf promotion where they joked about Sterek as though they'd make it canon if people voted for the show (in the Teen Choice Awards? something of the sort).

The entire concept is deeply flawed because it is heavily predicated on the idea that this part of the audience is huge and actively courted by mainstream media makers in the US and places like that. In reality, normie Hollywood types are usually dense as hell about the level of hoyay in their media. When it's brought to their attention, they're bemused or amused or dismissive or think it's nice if fans can see what they want in a canon. (Sometimes, this is because they're terminally straight. Sometimes, it's because they genuinely and eternally see buddy cops as Just Bros and a boring story about pursuing someone whom you will never regard as an equal or bestie as Romance, and this is often true of queer people making mainstream media.) In a few cases, they tried to make something gay, but the producer/studio/network head/Chinese government/etc. stopped them, which is still not queerbaiting. What they aren't is excited about the economic opportunities provided by pulling a bait and switch on that part of the audience.

The vast, vast, vast, vast majority of media either does not give two shits about our kind of audience or is aimed specifically at us and not others. The idea of gaining meaningful ratings or money with this kind of move is just... not how most industries work.

Related concepts are real (as you say), and people keep trying to redefine queerbaiting to cover some of them so they can pretend the term has any actual utility instead of just using the older terms for these specific other concepts. The narrow form of queerbaiting is a self-important delusion that fandom made up to torture ourselves with.

I wish all those dumbass undergrad papers I see blathering on about the subject would start their exploration by at least trying to figure out whether the practice is real in the first place and why and how the idea of it spread instead of taking it as a given.

[jinxed-ninjago]

Friendly reminder that Ninjago as a show is openly supportive of the LGBTQ+ community, even if it is subtly

Progress pride flag on Sally's dad's van:

Rainbow crosswalk in The Council of the Crystal King, also seen earlier in Papergirl and later in Distress Calls:

Bi pride flag on Sally's guitar case:

Progress pride flag on Sally's guitar:

Gay couple on a boat in the canal in Papergirl:

These two got One Step Forward, Two Steps Back banned in some countries due to the possibility of them being read as a lesbian couple, although Tommy Andreasen said it's up to the viewer to decide:

Cole is, in my opinion and a lot of other people's opinions, queercoded. Him admitting to his dad that he's not a dancer, he's a ninja feels like a queer coming out scene. He's even implied to be demisexual/demiromantic, as he tells Lloyd he doesn't like Vania "like that" because he just met her (in my eyes this implies he doesn't feel attraction until he gets to know someone. I'd even go as far as to call him demiplatonic, due to how his dynamic with people evolves as he gets to know them, seen with Kai, the Upply, Vania, and others).

Finally, I will direct you to the HoYay TVTropes page for Ninjago.

[glorious-spoon]

(my other thing is that like, in many cases the queerbait hoyay ships were more fun BECAUSE canon was more willing to make them be Fucking Weird about each other under the guise of hetero male friendship)

[wasteland-squog-baby]

*walking up*

Fuck pondering the flames why don't you ponder...

My perfect form.

WHO LEFT THE INTER-DIMENTIONAL PORTAL OPEN

WE CAN'T BE LETTING DRAGON BALL CHARACTERS INTO THE TOWER

@nothingf-i-s-h-yhere WAS IT YOU

[deancasforcutie]

"growing up is hearing impassioned completely wrong lectures about history you personally remember really well" but it's specifically the puriteens (+nominal adults they've become) saying the friendly homoeroticism of aughties shows was always intended and received maliciously. bullSHIT we called it HoYay and thought it was awesome

[melonteee]

Melonteee I have a question that I have not found an answer to anywhere - but recently I was on the TVtropes page for OP and on there I saw that under the “hoyay” for Zosan that Sanji kept Zoro’s wanted poster with him during the time skip (and not one of the girls instead) and I haven’t found it anywhere (in saying that I haven’t looked at the manga properly if it’s only in there) and I’m just confused if this actually happened or if someone on TVtropes is living in the zosan world I wanna be in?

It's okay anon I gotchu babe, it's chapter 599 <3

Realistically he probably has all their posters on him from Iva but kinda sus Zoro was front and centre, somehow I think he's been walking around showing that to people to find that big green hunk

[cecilyv]

Imagine Television without Pity was still a thing and the sheer delight and relish with which Omar would have had in covering 9-1-1, if Smallville gave us HoYay! and Stompy the Stompy Horse. If he got a world with Bee-nados and “vision in a cone” and epic magnum mustaches. I would read the shit out of that.

this is the world we deserve.

[missyourflight]

some stuff i read and watched in september:

my brilliant friend (s1-3): had a bit of ferrante fever and rinsed through this, i think it's v well done as an adaptation -- it's been so long since i read the first couple of books that the casting of the lads made them feel much more vivid than i remembered, also i Need to go to florence

foundation (s2): honestly entertainment peaked with deranged space emperor clone lee pace spitting blood in ben daniels' face and snarling i fucking love it, hope to see it back in 2-3 years probably!

the gold: finally got around to this bc they were talking about it on the watch lol, very cool the way it sort of sprawls out from the original heist and just keeps going, classic dcoop sketchiness, still mulling over casting jack lowden as lymond bc what other blonde scottish actors even are there

starstruck (s3): ROSE MATAFEO FOREVER etc. this season pretty much an anti-romcom which i'm on board with, the friendship stuff fucked me up, not to get into but phew re: being single in your thirties while all your friends are having kids etc

passages: really liked this but somehow didn't love it quite as much as i expected to, franz ben adele perfect, whishaw really come full circle since basically playing the franz role in cock at the royal court lol, beautiful knitwear outfits homewares

the best years of our lives: like 3 hours long but doesn't feel it, quietly devastatingly empathetic story of returning ww2 veterans, i need to watch the five come back series on netflix bc william wyler is so so good

a haunting in venice: i would also like to go to venice, kenbran's having fun at least my dutch angle king, i hope they keep letting him make these forever although i also rewatched tenet and nothing here tops the part where he jogs slowly backwards through time

the broken hearts gallery: the best of a bunch of recent-ish romances i watched, geraldine viswanathan is a Star

michael clayton: somehow hadn't seen this before but very satisfying like corporate thriller, tom wilkinson and tilda are great, i want to rewatch andor now

elena ferrante, the story of the lost child: finally finished the neapolitan novels, fuck me up elena. can't think of a comparable series of like adult novels that go this hard for me, maybe st aubyn? yowl

colin walsh, kala: this ripped actually, loved like the irish specificity of the voices

james frankie thomas, idlewild: literally took critical damage every time i had to read the word HoYay but this was great and painful about like being a horrible little queer teenager and codependent friendships and livejournal and annotated fanfiction etc

marilynne robinson, gilead: ow i loved this, i think it's a real skill to make like goodness compelling, looking forward to being devastated by the rest of the series etc

sylvia townsend warner, lolly willowes: 🧙‍♀️🍂🌝

katie kitamura, intimacies: more things should be set at the courts in the hague tbh! made me think about translation a lot and also black earth rising

cat sebastian, we could be so good: sometimes you just want to read a gay romance about being in love with your best friend innit

operation mincemeat: omg i actually went to the theatre, this was silly and very much The British Hamilton but i loved it and i cried and i ordered drinks to my seat, 5 stars etc

the effect: i didn't see the original billie piper staging but i love lucy prebble and i loved this cast, literally paapa essiedu can do anything, kobna holdbrook smith reminded me that i should carry on with the rivers of london audibooks, one in a long list of signs that i should probably talk to someone about my mental health lol

[fuckityshitbang]

hot nerd su take

im annoyed we didnt get more garnet/pearl and amethyst/peridot crumbs in su

i have nothing against pearl/amethyst or peridot/lapis nor do i even dislike the ships i just think theyre. less interesting.

also when i was an early watcher as it was airing in real time, i legit thought that was where we were gonna get our "main not-ship" hoyay... and they were both "introduced" narratively first

then after the introduction of the secondary hoyay ships the first ones just dried up lol

PORQUE NO LOS DOS