#He is not a crybaby at the end of mother 3 Brawl did him SO DIRTY

[elder-sister]

I had multiple times where these fans tries to outright murder the FE characters. An entire arc where they just...cursed the Swords of everyone in that realm. The intent was to kill them but they did something wrong and it caused a morality switch instead.

There was also an episode where characters were feeling depressed due to the toxic fans treating them bad and Mario tore them a new one.

And the Mii Gunner Sans episode. Oh boy

So basically, Mii Gunner's Sans costume gets announced. And people are loving it and it let's undertale characters into the realm. And then...um...well they start being toxic but not in the Smash fan way. In the Undertale fan way. And Mii Gunner isn't happy. Ness gets involved and someone brings up the Sans is Ness theory. And Frisk suggests the two fight to prove this false and it's insanely close, but Ness redirects a fatal blow (or rather his only blow) at the last minute, dies, forcing Frisk to reset, and for once the toxic Smash fans prove useful by kicking the toxic undertale fans out.

Then there was when they deliberately fanned the flames of the Corrin's feud to get them to fight, paid Wario to steal their dragonstones, causing them to lose control and go feral, and then telling Heroes who don't know better about the lose dragon (male Corrin) and since all female did was grab her two younger siblings who got onto the battlefield and leave a tale was spun of a sorcerer with a dragon having captured a princess, so that heroes would end up killing both Corrins

And it's this convoluted because their straightforward attempt to get rid of the Byleths failed miserably when they faced the wrath of two pissed off armies so manipulation it was!

Sounds about right for smash fans

[twothpaste]

Thoughts on Lucas’s portrayal in Smash Brawl’s Subspace Emissary? Long game to give a character in a fighting game character development (less scared in preceding entries) or horrible mischaracterization that hurts to think about? At the end of the day those fics where Lucas and Ness are chilling in the smash mansion are peak though.

oh boy, this is a good ask! i have a lot of thoughts about lucas in subspace (and the fanon surrounding subspace lucas). so i'll answer up top, and put all the hot takes & extra shit under a readmore.

i actually think lucas' portrayal in subspace is totally fine. honestly, he got much more than anyone should've expected. he stars in several cutscenes, he's one of the only characters to get any sort of arc, and that arc is clearly based on his character development in mother 3. he grows from a scared kid who's overwhelmed & unsure of himself, to a courageous hero who protects the people he cares about. it's not deep or 100% faithful, but for real, no character's smash incarnation is either of those things - esp not in subspace. for a silly fighting game story mode with limited cutscenes & no dialogue, i think they did as good a job as we were ever gonna get! i'm glad brawl introduced me to the little goober that'd later become my fav character ever, and that it introduced him to the west at large. if not for subspace lucas, most of us probably wouldn't be enjoying mother 3 today, so i've gotta put some respect where it's due.

realtalk though: what bothers me about subspace lucas isn't how he's handled in the game itself, but how fans took all the wrong impressions and ran with 'em. it's like folks only watched his first couple cutscenes at the abandoned zoo, then constructed their whole conception of Lucas around that. never mind all his other cutscenes where he makes a good friend (red) & fights by his side & learns to be brave. never mind how even before mother 3's timeskip he was siccing dinosaurs on fascists at age 10, with the grief of his mother's death still fresh on his mind. never mind his entire canon story. nah. he's just a sniveling helpless terminally lonely crybaby forever i guess. awesome. this is more an issue with smash fans who've never played mother, but it's always seeped a bit into mother fanon by proxy, and it's profoundly not my favorite thing in the world 🥲. (the perhaps inevitable pitfall of smash being lucas' only appearance in the west, and the foundational fanon being developed in 2008, before emulation was well-known or easily accessible.....)

i'm also really unfond of fanon that paints ness as lucas' savior, the only one who can pull him from his lonely misery, etc. cuz it's got nothing to do with lucas' actual character. in subspace he does look up to ness, but he spends more time with red, and grows stronger for red's sake. so lucas clinging to ness isn't even really in line with smash lucas' characterization. in mother 3 lucas takes initiative on his own, builds close friendships & makes lots of allies, proves himself to be an inspiring leader in his own right. and the game generally emphasizes finding light & joy in the world despite dire circumstances - i feel like hinging that joy on idealized codependency misses the point. ness & lucas could have a really interesting dynamic, and i've def seen it done in fanworks before! but i feel like most of the fanon around these two is based solely on The Wario Cutscene, ignoring lucas' later development & any possible context from earthbound or mother 3. which kinda bums me out.

it's probably outlandish to wish we'd gotten More Mother Content in A 2008 Crossover Party Game On The Wii - but i really do wish there'd been one more cutscene where ness & lucas got to interact again. maybe working together to fend off a threat, lucas relieved that ness is ok, ness acknowledging how much stronger lucas has become, exchanging a nod or a handshake? it wouldn't have to be much. just something to bookend their story, and indicate that they're on equal footing by the end.

yeah though, subspace itself is fine. admittedly i consider Smash Lucas & Mother 3 Lucas to be two separate entities, and Smash & Mother to be two separate canons / fandoms. they can overlap or cross over a lot, and it's neat when details from smash can fill in some gaps & inform how we see the characters. as far as fandom stuff goes, i'm way more interested in mother than smash, myself. but i've got no beef with how the smash devs portrayed lucas (aside from how particularly terrible he looks in brawl's ugly graphics). i think it's sweet how his model was perpetually frowny in brawl, then he came back smiling in 4 & ultimate. secretly would love to see another smash game with some sorta story again one day, though i'm not holding my breath for it.

[ronispadez]

1 for the choose violance ask?

1: the character everyone gets wrong

AUGGHHHHHHH OHHH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!! LUCAS 4 SURE. also maybe Gerard and Frank and other Band Dudes, but as for actual fictional characters, PROBABLY LUCAS!

Now, we don't have a clear idea of what Lucas is like post time-skip, if he's still the same gentle cry baby as he was before, in the prologue. But you gotta understand that going on a journey like that has got to change a person. He's def a lot more brave than the fandom, AND FUCKING SMASH BROS BRAWL !!! gives him credit for.

Old fanfics will usually give him t-th-he unre-re-alistic s-s-s-s-stuttering habit, which is sssssoooooooooo hard to read sometimes. I understand stuttering as something someone can have naturally, but in this context, it's something he does because he's nervous or scared or flustered. And he does it almost every time he talks until he finally warms up enough, or he's in a perpetual state of flustered. I'd understand if this was an actual speech thing he had that the author brings up, but no, you can tell that the intention is just to make him look more, ... Im not sure the right word, but more Shoujo shy girl like. Y'know?

Mischaracterization can't really be a thing with Mother protags and other silent protagonist. There can be opinions on characters I can either like or dislike, but that doesn't rule out the possibility that the character is "actually" like that. For Ness and Ninten, no one is really right or wrong... Characterizing them as assholes (COUGH mother 1 novel with Ninten/Ken) or as shy or, well, most of the time people just write Ness as a heroic extrovert and/or complete dumbass which personally is the correct way to me.

But in Mother 3, we get more character from Lucas than we do with any other mother protag, in that he's a gentle boy who likes flowers, and the village sees him as a crybaby, even before Hinawa died. (That one lady Flint talks to during the forest fire, before they knew Hinawa died, called Lucas a crybaby)

But fuck dude, even before the time-skip happened, Lucas came in clutch with the drago to save Salsa and Kuma from Fassad!!! You go, baby Lucas! wth!!!!

Anyway I am fucking SICK!!! I AM FYUCKIMG SICKKK!!!!!!!! Of baby-cant-do-nothin-right-pussy-boy Lucas, characterized in fanart or fanfics. I don't want him to just be a stoic asshole, but I also don't want the crybaby part to be laid on too thick, y'know? Characterize him with thought. He can still be a gentle crybaby, but don't make that his whole thing, who cries at any small thing that happens

As much as I love Brawl, it was the start of this trend. As much as I love subspace emissary, they absolutely did Lucas fucking DIRTY. What the fuck is he doing, getting scared over these fuckin doll guys and the poo-poo gas ??? I do understand that he doesn't have his friends and dog with him, so he's lost faith in his solo battling ability. I guess. Also is this after the game ended, where he's endured the worst fucking battle of his life?? Or pre time-skip, making smash, or at least subspace Lucas, a little baby man who hasnt gone thru character development yet? Most likely not. I don't know. Subspace's characterization with Lucas was fucking foul. It started the trend of writing Lucas like a little bitch because that's how most of the world was introduced to him. Most people haven't played his game, so they see him as this little BITCH BOY AUUHGHHHHH

Sorry, I'm rambling and not finishing any of my thoughts, but this is something I have to properly write an essay on or make a fuckin YouTube video about or something. Jesus

I do have to say I think Ness' character in Subspace was pretty cute. I wanna see more fanfics where Lucas gets upset with Ness because he protects him too much and Lucas proves himself as strong enough without Ness' help. And then they kiss maybe. Maybe even hold hands ..

Also I am RIDDLED with Nesscas brain I forgot that's literally what Lucas goes thru when he's with Red, I forgor. But most people just think about the Ness Died Because of Lucas Scene in subspace, not how he protects himself and Red later. Oughhhhhh

PENIS BLAST let's just start over, all the way back in 2008 everybody, cmon, let's go, into the phase distorter