#He Minglan

[heylookgiraffes]

Addskfkramergenf I forgot how mean gu tingye is to minglan on their wedding night, he keeps making her think they’re about to fuck and then he whips out the gajillion properties he needs her to manage for him and his tragic backstory LMAO

[dadvil]

Thought I had my top ‘24 cdrama already and then boom here comes blossoms in adversity to mess me up.

[mydaylight]

How can you say that? The entire Gu’s family judgement is so warped they would rather blame the innocent woman who died in childbirth after being horribly exploited and humiliated by her husband, as well as her innocent child who was orphaned as a baby instead of Gu Yankai or his parents who got away with getting all the Bai family’s money on top of causing the deaths of 2 women, Elder Qin Madam and Miss Bai. 

Though I guess here you also have class consciousness come into play i.e. Miss Bai is treated with contempt for marrying above her station as a merchant’s daughter, and “displacing” the high-born Qin Madam, even as the Gu family had no issue with using her dowry money to bail them out of the tight spot they were in.

[qiqi-guai-guai]

gu tingye scheming for minglan's hand in marriage is so funny... these schemers are made for each other - the nets they'll cast will catch the whole capital <3

[carlyleandco]

I’m on episode 64 and let me tell you I screeched when I saw Gu Tingye step into the main hall behind Minglan to defend her

Also shoutout to Changbai’s wife

[qserasera]

okay so i have seen Many crappy dads in cdramas but i think the one in legend of hao lan takes the cake

it's like...idk, if cinderella's father was still alive, and was a merchant instead of nobility, and would cry over cinderella when she was injured and give her hugs and stuff, but also turn a blind eye when the stepmother forced her into sleeping in a cold attic and when the stepsisters pushed her down the stairs because the stepmother had a powerful noble family backing her

[eigwayne]

I’m watching Ming Dynasty again, and I hate the male lead so much. So much. He’s arrogant and cruel and manipulative and smarmy and maybe that’s the point? No one in this show is looking good as a human being except maaaaaybe Ruowei, who haas already had her character arc apparently and has learned to let go of her anger, maaaaybe Xu Bin, whose greatest flaw so far is the same as Zhu Yilong’s character in Minglan, that in order to keep the peace, he won’t fight hard enough to keep his love. And I respect someone who will give up their personal wish in order to keep thousands of others safe, so I rather like Xu Bin. Everyone else is a piece of shit.

But Zhu Zanji is the most stomach-turningly irritating of them. I want to punch him in the face every time he shows up. I would stop watching even though I made it to the halfway point, he gets on my nerves that much. But this is based on history and his character dies relatively young, so the thought of him finally kicking the bucket is keeping me going.

[medievalandfantasymelee]

COME ONE, COME ALL to the MOSTE ILLUSTRIOUS TOURNAMENT of the FINEST, the MOSTE PUISSANT and HOTTEST MEN MEDIEVAL MEDIA HAS TO ITS CREDIT.

Be it known that we shall accept submissions of the hottest men OF THE PEOPLES’ CHOOSING from any live-action* TV or movie media property set between the years AD 500 – 1550 (Tudors WELCOME!!), and any fantasy properties which emulate said period!

KNOW ALSO that we, by the grace of this fine hellsite and with the counsel of the moste honorable and illustrious @hotvintagepoll (many thanks), have made

THESE GUIDELINES here given:

ANY HOT GUY who appears in any movie or TV show released in ANY YEAR, from ANY COUNTRY, shall be deemed eligible for entry. Below are listed examples of eligible properties. If YE BE NOT CERTAIN whether your hot guy is eligible, submit him anyway!

Examples of Eligible Properties: The Lord of the Rings Trilogy (2001-03), Game of Thrones (2011-19) House of the Dragon (2022), Wolf Hall (2015-2024), The Tudors (2007-2010), Ladyhawke (1985), The Princess Bride (1987), The White Queen (2013), Rise of Empires: Ottoman (2020-2022), Vikings (2013-2020), The Last Kingdom (2015-2022), Diriliş: Ertuğrul (2014), A Knight’s Tale (2001), BBC’s Robin Hood (2006-3009), The Last Duel (2021), The Story of Minglan (2018), The Borgias (2013), Robin Hood (1939), Outlaw King (2018), Pilgrimage (2017), Legend (1985), Braveheart (1995), The Green Knight (2021), Excalibur (1981), Beowulf & Grendel (2005), The Lion in Winter (1968), Robin Hood: Men in Tights (1993), The Black Adder (Blackadder Series 1, 1982), Rashomon (1950)

Remember: This is just a list of examples—WOW ME!

These following titles are examples of properties that do not fall within or emulate the stated time period and therefore DO NOT QUALIFY: The Three Musketeers (Any Version), Pirates of the Caribbean (2004), Barbarians (2020), Gladiator (2000), Ben Hur (1959), Shogun (2024), Elizabeth (1999), 300 (2006), Troy (2004), Xena: Warrior Princess (1995-2001), Disney's Robin Hood (1973)**, Yojimbo (1961), Shakespeare in Love (1998), King Arthur (2004)***

For the purposes of this tournament, "Man" and "Guy" are defined as any bi-pedal humanoid male character played by a man. As such, characters belonging to non-human races such as Hobbits, Orcs, Elves, Demons, Fauns, Werewolves etc. ARE admissible, and, indeed, encouraged.

If you have propaganda you forgot to include in your submission, just hold onto it and send it in an ask after the Tournament begins.

You may submit as many hot men as you like but please submit only ONE ENTRANT per submission.

Do not hesitate to submit ANY hot guy you think may qualify, no matter how popular he is. There is no such thing as a shoo-in with these tournaments. If you think "Someone MUST have submitted him already!" Everyone else is probably thinking that too and then he may well NEVER get submitted and we don't want that.

Do not worry about how many submissions your hot guy might have had already--I need to get a sense of who the strongest contenders are in order to fairly seed the draws, and the best way to do that is volume of submissions.

We are voting on the hotness of the characters. While the actors who portray them are of course a major factor in this, we are not voting on the actors themselves, therefore propaganda pertaining to the actors real lives (aside from anecdotes relating to their portrayal of the character) is not admissible.

By that same token, in the case of historical figures (e.g. Henry VIII) we are judging hotness based on the fictionalized portrayals of them in these properties, not on historical fact.

Regarding immortal/time-travelling/dimension-hopping/extremely long-lived characters, regardless of when the character was born, the main action**** of the story must take place within the Medieval Period (see dates listed at the top of this post) or Medieval-esque fantasy fantasy realm in order for them to be eligible for submission. As such, characters like the Pevensie brothers (The Chronicles of Narnia) and Ash Williams (Army of Darkness) are admissible, but Asgardians (the MCU Thor films) are not.

I, as the Administrator and Master of Revels of this tournament, am exercising discretion in the admittance of characters from works by Shakespeare, since many of them have no set date.

Re: characters adapted from books/written works - Book quotes by/ about your character are not admissible as Propaganda for their tv/ movie counterparts unless said quotes were also written into the show/movie.

Book illustrations and fanart are not admissible Propaganda

SUBMISSIONS SHALL REMAIN OPEN UNTIL MIDNIGHT, JULY 1st

The Tourney shall begin at a date yet to be determined with the Melee (Qualifying Rounds), wherein the entrants with the fewest submissions and least propaganda will duke it out in a free for all brawl to determine who will enter the Lists.

SUBMIT YOUR ENTRANTS HERE TODAY!!!

-- Master of Revels

*The "live-action" qualification does have a caveat: exception may be made for those CGI films which were all the rage in the mid-00's that used the motion-capture and likeness of the actors; for example characters from, Robert Zemeckis's Beowulf (2007) are admissible.

** this one doesn't qualify, not because it isn't the right time period, but because it falls solidly under the "Animated" category.

***Yes, sadly we are deprived of the beautiful countenances of Clive Owen, Mads Mikkelsen, Ioan Gruffudd et al because the producers of this film in their infinite wisdom and in an attempt to seem "more historically accurate" chose to set it during the Roman withdrawal from Britain, which occurred in the 5th Century (About a CENTURY earlier than Authurian tradition) and is generally agreed to have ended by AD 410. It therefore does not fall under the Medieval umbrella and is not eligible for submission.

**** "Main Action" here defined as "More than half an hour of a movie and more than two episodes of a series"

[paleturtlecherryblossom-blog]

Thoughts on Rise of Ning, Pt 2

Now that I’m through like 14 episodes of The Rise of Ning (and I’m having a amazing time), again I want to harp on the changes from the novel, and how I feel they’re logically executed:

First! LU JIAXUE! Even in the novel, he is an incredibly compelling character and in the drama, the actor brings out a fantastic intensity that makes it even better. The shot where Yining is arguing with him to spare her Third brother, and you see her whole face and just his jaw, but then the twitches of his jaw and lips convey SO MUCH repressed emotion, ahhh I was having a lot of fun.

The interesting thing about him for me (at least in the novel) is that he’s not exactly the typical scumbag ex-husband/lover you find in reincarnation/rebirth stories. He was genuinely very good to Yining when they were together, and in many other settings, he could be the endgame male lead after one key misunderstanding gets resolved, and I would cheer for him. In fact, the author did write an alternate universe extra where Yining doesn’t meet Luo Shenyuan and remarries Lu Jiaxue! 

So the romance in the novel is very context dependent; it works out because Yining meets Shenyuan in a setting filled with family struggles, slowly grows to rely on him more than anyone else and gives him her ultimate trust. All of this leads up to her falling in love with him, and this is never in doubt, even when she clears her misunderstanding of Lu Jiaxue (this relieved me a lot lol). 

I don’t really know where I’m going with this, but I just really like stories where characters falling in love for the second time dont have their first love be portrayed as ‘not really love’ or ‘loved a person unworthy of it’. Because in the novel, while I was all for Luo Shenyuan, I couldn’t say Lu Jiaxue was a scumbag who deserved to be dumped quickly. Also those two are very similar in terms of their ruthlessness and capacity for obsession, so I agree with @dangermousie, they should fuck it out. (they do it via court politics, but the direct version would be great to ;) )

So in the novel, Yining has an older sister (from the same mom Gu Minglan), who’s married off to a duke household. This sister of hers is very fierce and capable of defending her to her shitty dad (who’s unchanged across both versions, sigh). And her stepmom is actually not so cool in the novel, she is equally kind to Yining, but she doesn’t have much say. In this aspect, I much prefer Lin Hairu’s character in the drama, which I guess they derived by combining the novel! Older sister and the novel! Lin Hairu.

The change also makes sense, because in the novel, Yining only stays on in the main residence after her mom dies because of her elder sister marrying into a powerful family. In absence of this, and given that Lin Hairu would have married in only years later, it makes sense that Lady Qiao schemed to send her off to a country estate.

Also because Yining stays on the estate and grows up with Luo Shenyuan, Old Lady Luo is also, I think, a bit more accepting of him than in the drama, Again, it makes sense, in the novel, she is aware she is dying and she makes a deal with him: he gets legitimate status, and Yining gets his protection. In the drama, this logic doesn’t apply, because the grandma is looking for a suitable husband for Yining to protect her, and also she isn’t in immediate danger of dying anymore. So whether he can get added to the family registry really would require Yining to put a fair bit of thought into it. Also at this point of time in the novel, Shenyuan is the only adult son of the Luo second branch, so even shitty dad will grasp at straws to elevate his reputation. 

[dangermousie]

It is fascinating watching him navigate the crazy. It is deliberately murky how much of it is driven by concern for her (I'd say close to zero) and how much by his desire to avoid more insanity at least in the short run.

Like look at this - he's vvvv much like a powerless concubine trying to placate the powerful person in charge with concern/love/sex/whatever will get them to stop making their life hell.

I mean, what genuine feeling could there be with such a horrific power disparity especially when the powerful one is always reveling in the same/reminding him of it (and it's especially galling because it's the reverse of expected gender roles and he started out as a traditional scholar.) But also, the wound thing on her part is creepy as hell. Lady, you would have had an amazing time if you could find certain specialty clubs, and probably would have been chiller to boot.

Man looks as happy as someone about to be led to jail.

It really is the reverse of the narrative seen in harem dramas - there can be no trust or love or anything but at best a desire to use the power of the other person for your benefit or more likely, just mute endurance because what choice do you have, in a set up where the power imbalance is so huge and one partner controls the entire life of the other and sees them as a fun toy at best - it's actually pretty interesting that this is the default fate of women at the time but this time it's experienced by not just a man but a very very proper scholar who probably intrinsically believed that this state of things was right and proper until he got to see how the other half lives. (It also reminds me of Qi Heng and the Princess in Minglan in that in that society, if push comes to shove, class will always trump gender, in terms of control.)

I mean, this is such a gender norm reversal again, where she's the aggressor and he's the recipient - she's undressing him, she's the one who throws her arms around him and his just stay at his side until he does raise them because he knows what his job is supposed to be (and because let's face it, he may not want to take the first move but also knows she may take offense if he does.) It's actually an interesting commentary whether it means to or not that it's not that men are worse as a gender and that is why they are selfish, like control, driven by pleasure etc. It's that if you give someone power, boredom, control and a sense of superiority, a decent chunk of those people, regardless of gender, are going to get drunk on that and treat others as lessers.

[silviakundera]

Now that the final SoKP episodes have passed thru my eyes... Things I miss from the novel:

* Sorry but Jiang Xuening should have killed You Fangyin's murderer with her own hands.

* Jiang Xuening becoming obsessed with Xie Wei's cooking, such that she loves to quietly hang out in the kitchen with him whenever there's a break in the scheming. It's their safe space.

* Jiang Xuening going from being in the palace and part of the target/victims of the rebellion in Life 1 to being one of the financial backers of it in Life 2 and accompanying their fighting forces as they move up through the country as Xie Wei outsmarts the emperor & Xue family & Lord Pingnan's forces at the same time. Spending her 2 years away building the capital needed to help spearhead the rescue of the princess and then go to fuck up the emperor who sent his sister a letter to end her life for the benefit of the country.... (chef's kiss)

* The glorious revolution and making the royal family kill each other to save themselves in order to demonstrate the type of people they are

* Jiang Xuening moving into Kunning Palace at the end, as basically the unofficial minister of finance. She ended up in the same place at the end, but hearts & minds are changed and so the result is different

* Jiang Xuening putting the pieces together that the princess died in the 1st life due to her pregnancy & the emperor cutting ties (intrigue!) Team Fuck The System helping her safely give birth to her son, who she loves despite his origin. Our fav lesbian never has to get married to another dude and can just chill with her son, the cabinet of ministers, and her Ning Ning (with psycho husband in tow, but hey nobody's perfect 😂). Using her power to spread schools for women's literacy with Xie Wei terrifying the detractors into submission.

* When they try to use the Jiang family in the capital to threaten XW and he's like, so what? I was gonna pay back those bastards next for Ning'er so you're saving me time lmaaaaaaoooo

* Speaking of which tbh I prefer the lack of a last ditch bandaid on the Jiang family relationship. She's let all of the pain of the past go and isn't personally seeking to take anything away from them in this life... but she is just done with it. Dad is nicer but he's let his wife behave like this and has been mostly hands off. Feels sorta like Story of Minglan to me - letting the favoritism & emotional abuse happen while playing nice guy. In both novel & drama, he spends years not protesting how Jiang Xuening is cast as the troublesome, uncouth, inferior model. But then the drama decides to rehabilitate them. (Though to be fair, even the drama was half-hearted on this 'wash', cause at the end she's mentioning they're not close and in the last scenes the parents are with the sister and Ning'er is with her found family.)

Improvements in the drama:

* I liked that we got to see Jiang Xuening tell multiple people that she loves XW before she gives him her answer. The angst of it being uncertain what conversations she's having with the princess & ZZ, the risk that she's going to abandon XW for being a hot mess... it made for good dramatic tension in the novel. But for the ROMANCE and creating a sense that the feelings he has are truly returned... It makes the ship better.

* The relationship that FL and ML had with the fake Xue Dingfei was richer. He was a standout for me.

* Yan Lin had a happier ending. He really stole my heart in this 2nd life and like Jiang Xuening I felt no need to see him haunted by his vile actions in another universe. It was emotionally satisfying in the drama to see him at peace. You got us all rooting for him.

* Consolidated the Lord Pingnan plot! We really didn't need to get into their factions and introduce more antagonists.

* Consolidated the You Fangyin romantic interests - no need for a marriage of convenience with 1 dude and then Xie Wei's buddy also carrying a torch.

* I felt like the drama gave Zhang Zhe more personality and I did find it delightful when he was "fighting" side by side with Xie Wei.

* Xue Shu (the Xue daughter) felt like a more developed, fully realized antagonist.

* As much as it "sings" in the narrative to have her end up in Kunning Palace with power in the government at the end of the novel (that was brilliant)... maybe emotionally it spoke to me more to see her initial wish from the start of her rebirth fulfilled. Her original reborn goal was to avoid reentering the palace & exit-out of everything to have a quiet life of peace. None of that power ever made her happy.

* Marriage scenes of the otp thank uuuuuuuuu

* No and actually.. After her royal marriage in the 1st life she definitely doesn't need another big celebration. And with her messed up family relationships and his dead parents... Them doing the marriage ceremony all on their own, cause it's another pact between them, makes a lot of sense and I dig it.

* The reverse callback of whispering while she's waiting for a kiss to say "I'm yours" instead of "get out" 👌👌👌

[thegreymoon]

The Story of Minglan

Super hopeful we're now getting to the part where we finally get rid of Manniang 🙄 I am tired of her nonsense. She isn't even smart and her schemes are so vulgar and basic.

Tingye, please listen to Nanny!

***

Mmm... doubt that, but OK.

***

LOL, she seems unhappy at the prospect of doing manual labour for a living 🤣🤣

***

OH FUCK ALL THE WAY OFF 🤬🤬

This is rich, coming from a man who has never once made a decision in his life without consulting his dick first 🙄

***

LMAOOOOOOO, he couldn't sneak if his life depended on it 🤣🤣

***

Aww, Minglan, cutie, reaching out to make up with Gu Tingye 😢

***

Oh? 👀

Why not? They couldn't swing it after all?

***

I find it fascinating that all these high-born women were still expected to cook.

I can't imagine a European duchess or queen cooking anything ever unless it was a special hobby or something. When I think back on other harems in c-dramas I've seen, all the consorts/wives cooked. For example, in Nirvana in Fire we see Consort Jing being especially good at it.

Even in 2ha, Taxian-jun, who was a whole emperor at the time and had countless servants to prepare his food, insisted that Chu Wanning cook for him, even though he was terrible at it. He personally taught him to make that rice porridge and he ate it no matter what slop Chu Wannning ended up concocting. Of course, cooking and eating is Mo Ran's love language, so it made sense that he insisted on Chu Wanning doing this for him, because he desperately needed to feel loved by him, but it still seems like cooking was the norm rather than an exception among all high-level wives.

***

SHE WAS SELLING HIS MOTHER'S STUFF?

LMAO, oh, Manniang, you are so done! 🤣🤣

***

Honestly, Manniang is so embarrasing.

There she was, thinking she was fit to play on the big chessboard with the likes of Madam Qin and the rest of the nobles, but she got caught out like a rat by Nanny Chang through some elementary-level trickery. Truly pathetic.

***

How is he penniless when he has farmlands and shops in his possession?

Also, how is it even possible for some rando to sell land registered to another person without their consent?

***

Wait, who's alive?

***

How does anyone ever fall for this bullshit?

Why should he be the one to kill your treacherous ass and then carry you around on his conscience?

Fuck off and go die on your own terms, if you're so eager.

***

LMAO, classic DARVO.

Just boot her out already! I swear, men will stick their dicks into anything that comes attached to a pretty face.

She's not even a competent liar, Tingye! Please find some self-respect.

***

I mean, good, I am beyond sick and tired of her whiny, fake baby voice, but I'm worried she'll try to harm the kids.

Storywise, it makes sense, because we can't have competition for Minglan's legitimate offspring 🙄

***

With a mother like you, who needs enemies?

***

God, if she whines, "Erlaaaaaaaaang," once more in that slimy soft voice, I will break something, it grates on my nerves so badly.

I went down an ASMR rabbit hole sometime back and there were these women using this fake baby voice to narrate their shitty videos. It unnerved me so much. I can't even pinpoint the reason, it's just that all the alarm bells I have in my brain start blaring when I hear it.

***

LOL, of course she does.

[tomorrowsdrama]

I fucking HATE the father in the Rise of Ning. Someone please tell me he has a bad ending. Pleasssse I need to know he gets what he deserves. Your children come back after spending a night in the woods hiding from thieves (he doesn’t know this is a lie) and the first thing you think to do is to criticize your daughter for not acting properly? Scumbag POS. Even Minglan’s crappy father had the decency to care for his daughter’s safety when she was in danger. What a selfish, pathetic, useless, awful, loser! You don’t even make enough to fund your lavish lifestyle and you’re going to demean your wife who is keeping the household afloat?!

[guzhuangheaven]

What was the prince/princess position during the Qing Dynasty?

During Ruyi's series I noticed how arrogant Jingse was with the concubines and thought she was better than her brothers precisely because she was a legitimate princess and the oldest among them all. I know all princes are supposed to refer to their father's concubines as "mother." This left me intrigued, even though I know this was just for the plot, I can believe that in real life many princesses/princes were like this because of their mothers' position.

Jingse's arrogance is based on a system called di-shu which is a hierarchy between the children born of official wives (di) vs. children born of concubines (shu). See the linked Wikipedia for details, but for reference, of the children who have screentime in the drama, the hierarchy would likely be:

Yonglian (as the eldest di son, whose mother is the official wife, actually the second son)

(Yongcong, second di son, actually seventh son, mother is the official wife)

Jingse (as the eldest di daughter, whose mother is the official wife, actually the third daughter - first and second all died young)

Yongji (as a di son, whose mother was also the official wife when he was born, but she was the second wife, who is considered subordinate to the first, actually twelfth son)

(Yongjing - thirteenth son, Jingsi - fifth daughter, mother is the second wife)

Yonghuang (eldest son, but still considered lower than sons born of official wives because his mother was a concubine. Yonghuang's position is specified a shuzhangzi 庶长子 (aka eldest son whose mother is a concubine, which is a very precarious position as technically he should be ranked on top but can't be because of his mother's position, but being the eldest he is a threat to Yonglian's position which is why Langhua hates him so much.)

Other princes according to order of birth*

Other princesses according to order of birth*

*but also sometimes according to the prestige of/amount of favour enjoyed by their mothers

In Legend of Zhen Huan, the empress' entire villian backstory was rooted in di-shu. A lot of dramas like Story of Minglan, The Sword and the Brocade revolves around the fate of unfavoured shu daughters where a lot of the angst/conflict stems from their inferior position in the household.

In terms of choosing an heir/successor, the three main debates are between choosing the di son 立嫡, the eldest son 立长, or the most talented 立贤. Of course, the perfect choice would be the eldest di son who hopefully would also be talented.

Qianlong due to his (in drama) backstory of his mother being a palace maid has a big hang up regarding the di-shu positions of his children. For a long time he was only in favour of making his di sons successors, and part of the conflict between him and Ruyi later was because Qianlong still wanted to make Yongji his successor despite him being not that suited for the position and Ruyi clearly not wanting him to inherit the throne.

When he chooses Yongqi it was a case of choosing for talent. Although, at the time, Yongqi is also technically the eldest since Yonghuang, Yonglian, Yongzhang have all died and Yongcheng has been disinherited/adopted out.

By the time he choose Yongyan I guess he didn't have that many choices left:

Yonghuang, Yonglian, Yongzhang, Yongqi, Yongcong - dead

Yongcheng - adopted out

Yongrong - probably tainted by association to Luyun and Yongzhang

Yongxuan & Yongxing - tained by association to Yuyan and Yongcheng

Yongji - probably also dead by then

Yongyan

Yonglin - younger than Yongyan so between the two of them obvious Yongyan was the one

For someone who had 17 sons, he really didn't have that many choices for a successor ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[qiqi-guai-guai]

qi heng sweetie I'm sorry you're so heartbroken but did you expect her to wait for you forever - beautiful sincere idiot :(

[da-man-si]

I just watched the preview of ep. 28

The secret about Yining is out.

We already knew the father is a piece of shit, but he is THE piece of shit because he gets all mad at Yining and it seems like he wants to remove Gu Minglan's name from the ancestry house and Yining tries to stop him so he has her flogged. I know the drama won't do anything much about this guy and he will get to live happily in the end with little to no consequences for the vile things he has done, but can I at least get to see him being punched in the throat? please just once?