#Hati Ulfr

[drawing-way-outside-the-lines]

[drawing-way-outside-the-lines]

tag the oc that has an intuition that is rarely or never wrong

[thorraborinn]

is it true that skoll chases the moon and not the sun?

The short answer is that it appears to be "no." As far as we can tell, Skoll/Sköll chases the sun.

Grímnismál says:

Sköll heitir ulfr, er fylgir inu skírleita goði til varna viðar, en annarr Hati, hann er Hróðvitnis sonr, sá skal fyr heiða brúði himins. 'A wolf is named Sköll who follows the bright-faced god to the wood-shelter, but the second is Hati, he is Hróðvitnir's son, that one shall (go) before the bright bride of the sky.'

('Wood-shelter' is taken to mean the trees on the horizon, that is, until setting.)

Snorri restates this in plainer prose language:

Þat eru tveir úlfar, ok heitir sá, er eftir henni ferr, Skoll. Hann hræðist hon, ok hann mun taka hana. En sá heitir Hati Hróðvitnisson, er fyrir henni hleypr, ok vill hann taka tunglit, ok svá mun verða. 'There are two wolves, and the one which goes after [the sun] is called Skoll. She fears him, and he will take her. And the other is called Hati Hróðvitnisson, who runs before her, and he wants to take the moon, and that will happen.'

So strictly speaking, neither of them chase the moon. According to both of these, Sköll follows behind the sun, and though Hati will eventually take the moon, his position is described as being in front of the sun.

It's not clear to me that the Grímnismál stanza couldn't be interpreted such that it skírleita goð could be Máni rather than Sól, though I agree the traditional interpretation is much more likely. The word goð 'god' reveals nothing about gender, as it's neuter in Old Norse. But while the word skírleitr 'bright-faced' could certainly apply to the moon in isolation, if someone says "the bright-faced one" and the sun is an option, we know they're talking about the sun. It would also indicate a situation where, while Sköll is chasing Máni, Sól is chasing Hati.

My interpretation of this is that the sun is flanked by wolves, and that the one following behind her will eventually get her, at which point the one who had been ahead of her will break off and get the moon.

For a long time this has been interpreted as referring to the phenomenon of "sun dogs," a phenomenon where the sun actually does appear to be flanked by two smaller sun-like bodies, caused by refraction of the sun's light. Conditions for sun dogs are not uncommon in Iceland. In Icelandic folklore, when they appear, it's said that "the sun is in úlfakreppa," meaning something like 'wolf-touble' or 'wolf-danger.'

In Vafþrúðnismál, it's Fenrir who gets the sun. Snorri also makes mention of a certain Mánagarmr, whom he calls the mightiest of the entire family of "jötnar in wolves' shape," presumably meaning something like 'moon-dog,' though Garmr is the name of a specific mythological dog and not a normal word for a dog (normally it means 'a tatter, rag'). This Mánagarmr is also supposed to swallow the moon. Since Snorri seems to present Hati and Mánagarmr as different, he may be contradicting himself. But it's also possible that while Hati captures the moon he doesn't eat him, leaving that to Mánagarmr; and it's also possible that they are the same and Snorri phrased it strangely; or else that he had two contradictory pieces of lore that he tried to fuse together.

My suspicion is that the precise identities of who did what here were rather fluid up until a late time.

[mandrake-fields]

Sköll heitir ulfr,

er fylgir inu skírleita goði

til varna viðar,

en annarr Hati,

hann er Hróðvitnis sonr,

sá skal fyr heiða brúði himins

[armsdealing]

I’ll be clear about something regarding Fenrir -- his name is not actually Fenrir, but that’s what he will most typically answer to, when not referred to simply as Wolf, or The Wolf of Fenrir/Fenris-ulfr/Fenrisúlfr , as he’s referred to in the lore. This is not so much an oversight on my part as it is a desire to streamline the whole dilemma. Since to this day it has not been discovered who Fenrir is (it’s speculated to be Loki, or even Tyr), I prefer to just go by the idea that Fenrir adopted the names he was referred to in his youth, Fenrir being a lazy one of them. But he will answer to the others, too, and pretty much anything else since they all mean the same to him: nothing, as he is at heart a wild animal and wild animals aren’t to bear names.

On this same note, here’s a list of kennings for him (credit here for the convenient list):

The Ravener - Völuspá st. 44

The Wolf - Völuspá st.53

Beast of Slaughter - Völuspá st. 54

Hrodvitnir - Grímnismál st. 39, is actually a heiti but whatever

Famewolf (translation of Hrodvitnir)

Foe of Odin - Skáldskaparmál

Monster of Ván - Skáldskaparmál

Tyr of Wolves - based on info in Skáldskaparmál

Bane of the High-God

The Second Grief of Frigg - Völuspá st. 53

Son of Loki (context would clarify between Jorm and Fenrir)

Son of Angrboda (context would clarify between Jorm and Fenrir)

Brother of Death/Hel (context would clarify between Jorm and Fenrir)

Father of Hati (and Skoll if one decides they believe Skoll and Fenrir are not actually one and the same)

[lokeanwelcomingcommittee]

Hello again, I started my path as a Lokean and have also been writing to Fenrir only I'm not sure how to address him and the last thing I want is to offend him. I love him and I find that I relate to him a lot. What should I do?

This is one of those cases where reading the lore and putting things in a cultural context can really help inform modern practice.

The Norse really loved giving the gods, and everything else, poetic alternate names. We call these by-names kennings and heiti. These stylistic features are one of the primary hallmarks of their literature. (For further reading, there’s a good intro to medieval nordic literature at this link.)

There are a few different historical heiti for the Wolf that appear in eddic sources:

Fenris ulfr. The Wolf of Fenrir. (The R on the end changes to an S because that’s how the Old Norse genitive case works.) Fenrir, in turn, probably means “fen-dweller”, although we aren’t 100% sure. “Fen-dweller’s Wolf” sounds more like a title than a name. That’s why you’ll see a lot of devotees refer to him simply as “the Wolf.”

Fenrir. As mention before, this probably translates to “fen-dweller.” Most people refer to him by this name today, even though it seems unlikely that the Wolf of Fenrir is also Fenrir himself. In fact, it’s possible that “Fenrir” might actually refer to Skoll.

Hróðvitnir. “Fame-wolf.” Used in Lokasenna when Tyr taunts Loki about the Wolf being bound. Also listed as Hati’s father a couple times in the Prose Edda.

Þjóðvitnir. Usually translated as “main-wolf.” However, this is also used in Grímnismál to refer to the wolf chasing the sun, which would be Hati or Skoll.

Vánargandr. “Monster of the river Ván.” Used in Gylfaginning, which contains the story of Fenris Ulfr being bound and a river of saliva issuing from his jaws where he is chained.

For those interested, there’s an awesome list of Loki’s kennings and heiti here.

But you aren’t limited to just those. Continuing to coin our own titles epithets for the gods is perfectly in line with how our ancestors addressed them, and could in of itself be considered a form of worship. What aspects of the Wolf speak to you in the moment? Which ones do you admire? Name him by those.

- Mod E

[fmplouisa]

Sköll and Hati

Skoll ( pronounced SKOHL) ‘the one who mocks’ and Hati ( pronounced HAHT-ee) ‘the one who hates’ are the sons of the Wolf Fenrir. At Ragnarok, the downfall of the cosmos, they catch their prey as the sky and earth darken and collapse.

It’s not entirely clear which one of them pursues the sun and which pursues the moon. The medieval Icelandic historian Snorri Sturluson, whose works are typically taken at face value in low-quality introductory books on Norse mythology, claims that Skoll chases the sun and Hati the moon. However, Snorri’s source in this passage, the Eddic poem Grímnismál, says the following in the relevant stanza:

‘Skoll is the name of the wolf Who follows the shining priest Into the desolate forest, And the other is Hati, Hróðvitnir’s son, Who chases the bright bride of the sky’ 

The noun used for Skoll’s prey, goði (“priest”), is masculine, and the noun used for Hati’s prey, brúðr (“bride”) is feminine. Since Mani (the moon) is male, and Sol (the sun) is female, the wording of this stanza strongly suggests that Skoll hunts the moon and Hati hunts the sun.

References:

1. Snorri Sturluson. The Prose Edda. Gylfaginning, chapter 11.

2. The Poetic Edda. Grímnismál, stanza 39. My translation. The original Old Norse stanza reads:

‘Sköll heitir ulfr, er fylgir inu skírleita goði til varna viðar, en annarr Hati, hann er Hróðvitnis sonr, sá skal fyr heiða brúði himins.’

3. Simek, Rudolf. 1993. Dictionary of Northern Mythology. Translated by Angela Hall. p. 160.

4. The Poetic Edda. Lokasenna, stanza 39.

5. The Poetic Edda. Völuspá, stanza 40.

The sigil of my twin characters was inspired by this Skoll and Hati Yin-Yang that I came across while researching Yin and Yang. 

Other interpretations include the following:

This digital painting of Skoll and Hati carved into the side of a mountain, one with the moon on its shoulder and the other with the sun. The symmetry is just stunning and the way they’re tails entwine into the symbol for infinity to contrast the legend that they contribute toward Ragarok, the end of the world. 

Despite the absence of colour and it only being a line-art piece, it still captures the aggression and hatred in the faces of the wolves and their snarling maws.  

The homage paid to the original way that the ancient sculptors used to sculpt fur into animal statues in this piece, and matched with the inverted colour pallet of black and white creates a beautifully simplistic yet complex contrast. 

Also, the fact that there are two of them makes for even more reason to link wolves to my twin assassin/mercenary characters. 

[drawing-way-outside-the-lines]

[thorraborinn]

Grímnismál - Stanza 39

Hi there! 

I would like your recommendation on how to write the famous 39th stanza of the Grímnismál using the 16-rune younger futhark:

"Sköll heitir ulfr, er fylgir inu skírleita goði til varna viðar, en annarr Hati, hann er Hróðvitnis sonr, sá skal fyr heiða brúði himins."

Thank you very much in advance and for your awesome work on the website, I've learned a lot!

Cheers!

-------------------

There's one word here that we're not going to be able to be fully confident about. The name Sköll is a little unclear, and some people think it should actually be Skoll. I'm writing it ᛋᚴᛅᛚ here representing Skǫll because that's the best interpretation of what actually stands in the manuscript, but ᛋᚴᚢᛚ would also be possible.

I'm rewriting this a little bit to better reflect the phonological system contemporary to the early younger futhark.

Skǫll hæitiʀ ulfʀ eʀ fylgiʀ inu skírlæita goþi til uarna uiþaʀ en annarr Hati hann er Hróþuitnis sonʀ sá skal fyr hæiþa brúþi himins

ᛋᚴᛅᛚ ᛬ ᚼᛅᛁᛏᛁᛦ ᛬ ᚢᛚᚠᛦ ᛁᛦ ᛬ ᚠᚢᛚᚴᛁᛦ ᛬ ᛁᚾᚢ ᛬ ᛋᚴᛁᚱᛚᛅᛁᛏᛅ ᛬ ᚴᚢᚦᛁ ᛏᛁᛚ ᛬ ᚢᛅᚱᚾᛅ ᛬ ᚢᛁᚦᛅᚱ ᛁᚾ ᛬ ᚭᚾᛅᚱ ᛬ ᚼᛅᛏᛁ ᚼᚭᚾ ᛬ ᛁᛦ ᛬ ᚼᚱᚢᚦᚢᛁᛏᚾᛁᛋ ᛬ (ᛋ)ᚢᚾᛦ ᛋᛅ ᛬ ᛋᚴᛅᛚ ᛬ ᚠᚢᚱ ᛬ ᚼᛅᛁᚦᛅ ᛬ ᛒᚱᚢᚦᛁ ᛬ ᚼᛁᛘᛁᛋ

Feel free to substitute your preferred glyphs. I included "᛬" for word boundaries, but that's unnecessary (and probably less likely) and you can either leave it out or do it differently (single dots, or let each line run together but use markers to separate the lines, or whatever). You also wouldn't expect to find it broken down into lines like that; if you were writing this on a runestone or something it would be much more likely to just all run together and have line breaks determined by just running out of room.

When I write things for myself I sometimes like to use digraphs (two letters for one sound) for sounds that aren't written perfectly with the four available vowel runes. That means I would normally write Skǫll ᛋᚴᛅᚢᛚ (I usually skip this on small unstressed words like eʀ and en, and I wouldn't do this for fylgiʀ for reasons I can explain if you want but that would be getting into the weeds). To the best of my knowledge most people prefer not to use digraphs this way so I don't normally write things for others that way unless it's specified. Both ways are well-supported by the runic record.

As always, this is very much not the only way to do it.

[drawing-way-outside-the-lines]

’The pure-bloods’

Hati Ulfr. (Part of Lupei Clan). *Minor character. Voice Claim: (Eric McCormack) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKwsA_nq1P8

Partner(s): None.   Parents: None.   Kids: Not specified. But most likely.   Other family members: Sköll (pictured here).   Age: Not specified Height: 195cm Body type: Skinny but quite toned.       Eye color: Very bright/light blue. Classification: (Immortal) Born Shapeshifter —-> Wolf.  

About: ~ Reflective, complex, determined, mystical, private, proud, stoic, quiet, independent, articulate, clear-headed, courageous, focused, elegant, highly intelligent, serious, logical, graceful and observant. ~ Often called ‘the moon chaser’.   ~ Sexuality unspecified. ~ Has long silky black hair. ~ Was born a shapeshifter/wolf. ~ Has 3 inverted crosses, tattooed on his forehead. ~ Is often seen carrying books around.   ~ A lover of the night, mostly stays in shadow during the day.       ~ Works as a judge, lawyer, architect, alchemist and scientist.   ~ Smells like Opium, Jasmine and spices. ~ Is the best cook in the clan. ~ Is a bit of a workaholic. ~ Loves the moon, his brother (listed here), people showing him respect, working, the smell of fresh air, winter, Opium, Orchids, Jasmine flower, moon flower, being in wolf form, howling, the taste of blood, darkness, and red wine. ~ He dresses mostly in black or very dark shades of blue. ~ Is pretty reserved, and doesn’t speak much, but when you first engage a conversation with him, you will learn he’s very deep.  

Hait’s tag Hati’s house/home Hati’s moodboard Handwriting/ask answer pic:

One Gif to describe him:

‘Biography’ for both: (Norse Mythology) https://norse-mythology.org/skoll-hati/ And this is a good read too: http://www.northernpaganism.org/shrines/fenrir/writing/the-sons-of-fenrir-hati-and-skoll.html Sköll Ulfr. (Part of the Lupei clan) *Minor Character. Voice Claim: (Eric Bana) https://youtu.be/1B8KVUhX-4I?t=22s

Partner(s): None. Parents: None.     Kids: Not specified. Probably.  Other family members: Hati (pictured here).   Age: Not specified.   Height: 191cm Body type: Skinny but with some muscle tone.       Eye color: Orange, yellow and green tones, even a bit of pink when the sunlight hits them.   Classification: (Immortal) Born Shapeshifter —-> Wolf.

About: ~ Resourceful, adventurous, charming, curious, proud, dedicated, challenging, dynamic, charismatic, very intelligent, passionate, ambitious, confident, determined, religious (but tends to keep it to himself, unless you seek guidance), mystical and can be rather stubborn at times. ~ Is often referred to as 'sun eater’. ~ White half long wavy hair, with silver/golden shine, depending on how light hits it. ~ Sexuality not specified.   ~ Was born a Shapeshifter/wolf. ~ Is more outgoing than his brother. ~ Has an 'Elven-ish’ body marking on his forehead. ~ Works as a priest, vet and physical therapist.   ~ Is mostly outside during daytime. ~ Is a very skilled piano and harp player. ~ Kids often points at him and ask if he’s and elf. ~ Loves the sun, his brother, butterflies, Yarrow flower, Blanket flower, Butterfly weed, sunrise, red, orange, yellow, tea, sun beams, bronze, summer, spring, fresh pressed juice, butter cookies, howling, sunbathing, summer, spring, and lamb meat.   ~ Dresses mostly in white, or very light blue tones, very light gray or cream colors. ~ Has a very deep respect for his brother, and always listens to his word. Sköll’s tag Sköll ’s house/home Sköll’s moodboard Handwriting/ask answer pic: One Gif to describe him: