#Hasbara queen

[zionistgirlie]

Hiii! You seem really good at collecting info and facts.

I'm not Jewish so l've never really heard a pro-Israel side to the war that wasn't from the POV of a non-Jew. I've also mainly been of the opinion of 'plz can no one die' so l've usually leaned to the pro-Palestine side, because of the huge amounts of deaths l've heard of.

I was wondering if you could maybe give some examples of pro-Palestinian arguments+views, and your opinions of them? Like for example the colonisation argument, or the fact that a lot more Palestinians have died than Israelites.

I'm not going to say that you're necessarily going to change my mind on a lot of things, but I really value all opinions and would like to broaden my understanding of the war.

Thanks for your time!

First of all, I really appreciate your willingness to seek views that go against your own. I think it's courageous and something that people of all opinions hate to do.

Honestly, I don't follow the pro-"Palestine" arguments too much; they seem to all end in "(((zionists))) are killing babies and using them for baking matzot", I don't know if I've seen many actually decent, logical points even when I was an antizionist, so if you have anything specific you'd like me to refer to, feel free to send a following ask!

I don't know if I'll manage to keep it short and sweet; this is a vast topic to cram into bullet points, and as the Talmud says, "Ten measures of speech descended to the world; women took nine", but let's try!

YOU'RE A WHITE COLONISER

This view seems to ignore two main points:

Colonies, historically, were under the rule of an empire. Colonies, by definition, are an extension of an empire, a mother country or a sovereign entity. The British Empire had colonies, the best known of which are, of course, the 13 colonies of America. There was also Arab colonisation, which, for some reason, people don't like to mention.

The Jews, on the other hand, were a persecuted minority group in every country they were in. They were not an empire, and they had no mother country. Zionism began, in fact, when Herzl watched the Dreyfus affair and realised that Jews, even if they were in high positions, were still persecuted and scapegoated. Is it Colonialism when members of a persecuted minority return to their native land? This brings me to the other point:

In no case in the history of colonialism, except for the case of the Jews and the Land of Israel, have settlers arrived in the land and found archaeological evidence dating back thousands of years that they were indigenous to the land. Is it possible to colonise a country you are native to? This seems to be the case, but only when it comes to Jews.

Speaking of colonisation: Those who hold the view that Jews colonised the Land of Israel claim that the Arabs who call themselves "Palestinians" are the natives of the Land of Israel. But there is no archaeological evidence of an Arab or Muslim presence in the Land of Israel until the seventh century, when the Muslim conquest began (the conquest, begun by Arabs in present-day Saudi Arabia, took from Kashmir and Punjab and parts of India in the east to Morocco and parts of Spain in the west). The Arab conquerors reached the Levant (where they were not natives), and ordered the construction of a mosque on the Temple Mount, above the site of the first and second Jewish temples. In the eighth century, the Muslim conquerors ordered non-Muslims to wear identifying clothing (a yellow star for Jews (sounds familiar?) and a blue star for Christians).

TLDR:

Arabs are native to Arabia, not to the Levant; Jews are native to Judea. You cannot colonise a land to which you're native.

A persecuted and displaced minority group, who returns to their native land in order to protect themselves from persecution and genocide: this is not colonisation.

WHAT ABOUT THE CRAZY DEATH DISPARITY?

First of all, it is worth saying that a higher death toll in a war does not equal moral superiority, more just (justest?) claims or righteousness in general. In World War II, more Germans died than the British, and that includes civilians. The logical assumption is not and should not be that the Germans were probably right and that the Nazis were righteous. This opinion seems funny when applied to other conflicts, yet for some reason, when it comes to Israel and Gaza, it seems a correct and logical opinion.

However, if you believe the numbers provided by the Hamas Health Ministry (which you shouldn't), it does appear that there are more deaths on the Gaza side. So why is that?

Israel devotes the largest percentage of its annual budget to the defence budget. The budget allocation within the Ministry of Defense itself is mainly confidential, and yet we still know that Israel has some of the most advanced defence systems in the world (Iron Dome and the like), so advanced that several countries, including the United States, have purchased them. Israel is an advanced, technological country, with good minds, and is constantly working on inventing, building, and improving its defence systems in order to ensure maximum protection for its citizens.

Gaza, how shall we put it, is none of these things. Gaza receives enormous sums of money from the West, as well as from Iran, and invests it in purchasing offensive equipment (Kalashnikovs, tanks, missiles, explosives…) and building a network of underground terror tunnels, in which senior Hamas figures hide. It was recently revealed that these tunnels are 200-400 miles long.

The shafts for these tunnels are often found inside hospitals, mosques, schools, and even children's rooms (including the tunnel in which the six hostages were murdered), as revealed by the IDF spokesman.

Hamas has continuously, since 2007, hidden weapons and tunnel shafts in these humanitarian locations, carried out shooting from these locations, and put its citizens in danger. A NATO report from 2014 also says so. This is a violation of international law.

During the war, Hamas prevented civilians from evacuating areas that the IDF announced it would attack, in some cases even shooting its own people who wanted to flee an area of ​​attack. This, too, is a violation of international law.

Former Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar said "the growing civilian death toll would serve to benefit Hamas more than a cessation of fighting would." He also called the high civilian death toll "necessary sacrifices." From their actions and words, it is clear that Hamas does not consider protecting its citizens important.

TLDR:

Hamas does not defend its people. Furthermore, they hide behind them in order to use "lawfare". Israel spends money and effort on defence and protects its civilians rather than hiding behind them.

I don't support death, hence I support Palestinians:

Israel is not looking to murder Gazans. Israel was in a ceasefire with Hamas until the massacre of October 7, 2023 and the kidnapping of 251 men, women and children. An existential war was forced upon Israel, which it waged most of the time with one hand tied behind its back (courtesy of the Biden administration and the West). Even if you look at the number of deaths that Hamas has provided (in which there was no separation between civilians and militants), after over a year of fighting, it can be said that Israel is waging a precise war and is very careful to avoid harming civilians. For reasons detailed above, and also due to the nature of war in general and the October 7 war in particular, harm to civilians cannot be zero. This is the bleak nature of war. I would love to find a war in which not a single civilian was harmed, if you have any links or ideas, please! But this war began following a massacre in which 1200 people were brutally and cruelly murdered, many of them civilians, a hundred of them children. Fifty more children were kidnapped to Gaza, where they were abused. Two children, Kfir and Ariel Bibas, were strangled in cold blood in captivity. The argument that you don’t want unnecessary death is a great one, but it misses the point that Gazans do want unnecessary death. Of Jews, and, to be honest, of Gazans too.

In short, Israel is waging a war against jihadist terrorist organisations. That should be the basic premise. It is difficult to wage a fair and lawful war, even more difficult when the enemy does not follow international law, the laws of war, or basic decency.

The premeditated murder of civilians is a violation of international law. The premeditated murder of children during a war is a violation of international law. Kidnapping of civilians and children is a violation of international law. Sexually, physically, and psychologically harming the hostages, as well as starving them, is a violation of international law.

To be honest, you don't have to be pro-Israel now. It's strange to me that people who have no skin in the game are choosing teams as if it were a football game. The view that war is bad is a good enough "side." The view that the death of civilians in war is bad is a good enough "side". The view that harming Jews who have nothing to do with the war is bad is also a good enough "side".

We are not looking for your support or your love. We are not a football team. We are a broken and hurting people who have experienced the greatest massacre since the Holocaust and are just trying to bring our sons and daughters home, to eliminate a terrorist organisation that is willing to shed our blood, and to be left alone.

(Don't get me wrong, your support is appreciated, but that's not why we're fighting.)

[zionistgirlie]

Thank you again for the detailed explanation. Again, not an American Jew (thank G-D I'm in Israel!) so I definitely missed some of the context.

Having said that— COME TO ISRAEL!

(I'm both a hasbara queen and an aliyah queen, you see)

I wasn’t going to say anything, but seeing people get chastised over saying “Rest in Peace” for Michelle Trachtenberg instead of using the Hebrew phrase? Yeah, I need to.

My great-grandfather was Jewish. He married a Catholic woman who loved him, and instead of erasing his traditions, she embraced them. She honored both Jewish and Catholic holidays. She handmade decorations for both. We still have them. We still carry that love, even if we aren’t practicing. Because being Jewish isn’t just about practice—it’s about family, history, and remembrance.

And that’s why this whole discourse hurts.

Most people saying “Rest in Peace” aren’t trying to erase Jewish mourning traditions. They aren’t trying to be disrespectful. They’re just expressing love in the only way they know how. And instead of taking a moment to teach, to connect, to build bridges—some of you would rather tear people down for not already knowing.

But here’s the thing: Judaism has survived through remembering. Through teaching. Through welcoming people in rather than shutting them out. My family held onto our Jewishness through love, not through pushing people away. Maybe—just maybe—that’s something to think about before deciding that someone’s sympathy isn’t “correct” enough.

Because in the end? What matters isn’t the exact words used. It’s that she is remembered. And that people care. 💙