#HI IM DANA AND I LOVE WAR CRIMINAL REDEMPTION ARCS

[dontgofarfromme]

While we're on the subject of redemption arcs, what were your thoughts on the ones in Oathbringer? I wasn't on Tumblr yet, so I think I missed your hot takes, and I'm really curious!

Ohhhhh man okay I love Oathbringer so much but also it's been like 2 years since I read it in full so I do NOT have a fresh memory of it, so this'll be a little vague maybe.

In terms redemption arcs....this book kind of kills it? Like. Okay I dont wanna shit on Zuko but everyone always brings Zuko up as the 'ideal redemption arc' and I'm not saying it was bad because it wasn't it was well done, but I've also seen people saying that the reason Zuko's redemption arc works is because he wasn't totally evil, and because he didnt commit super horrific crimes so he was on the redeemable side of some arbitrary line we've drawn. Like a requirement for a redemption arc is being on the correct side of that line otherwise there should be no stories that investigate how or if a person can be redeemed and what that would look like.

Anyway. I think thats kinda bullshit. I love Zuko and I love his arc but also....its like lukewarm in terms of where we can go with a redemption arc because Zuko is never the real villain, he's never just clearly evil, he does bad things and hurts the mcs but he's conflicted and regretful and showing signs of wanting to change and always a secondary bad guy to someone else.

And those things might make his arc more palatable and easy to draw on as an example of an effective redemption arc to some people, but also they allow you to skirt around a lot of the most interesting questions that can arise in this sort of arc. Like. I dont wanna say that it's boring but. It's sad to me that it's most people's go to (maybe only??? The things some people reference as being redemption arcs actually drive me up a wall) example of a well done redemption arc bc the questions you can pose about this are limited when the set up is a generally soft hearted boy from a messed up family is trying SO HARD to please his dad by being evil but also his really chill uncle is there to mitigate his worst ideas the whole time and hes super inefficient at being bad because he's 16.

IN CONTRAST. Oathbringer takes a character we thought we knew as good and turns him on his head. It gives us a past Dalinar and shows him as chaotic, uncontrollable, angry, warmongering, the extent of his bloodthirst contrasted against and shown to be greater that of characters we currently hate in the present day series. It shows us his anger and his violence and his lack of care for anyone and his failure at fatherhood and husbandhood and then his absolute darkest moment in which he unflinchingly directs the massacre of an entire city in a fit of rage.

And then it turns and it asks not only Dalinar himself, and the other characters, but also--by virtue of this being the third book, after we've already known current, measured, thoughtful Dalinar for 2 books--asks us if we can accept him as being redeemed. It presents us with a character who has done things that are so horrendous he would make for a terrifying and effective villain in basically any setting you put him in, and has him screw up massively, break down, spiral, hate himself, be mentally magically altered so that he can live with himself and try to become better rather than collapsing in on himself and becoming an utterly nonfunctional person, and then takes that protection away and asks him who are you now?

Who are you after everything terrible you've done and everything you've tried to make yourself into following that and can you be a person again? Will you crumple in on yourself or will you blame your failures on magic because that's the easy thing to do or will you ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE THINGS YOU HAVE DONE AND MOVE FORWARDS? And does doing so make a person redeemed? Or are there things so terrible that nothing you do can ever make it right? Even if you believe that to be the case, is it worth it to try anyway? And how do the answers Dalinar finds to these questions and the answers we find to these questions impact how we as readers view Dalinar compared to how we thought of him for the first two books?

There are tons of other things I could yell about for hours wrt OB including how Moash is an extremely effective foil for not only for Kaladin but also for Dalinar to an extent because his arc is a spiralling character degradation into NOT taking responsibility, and what happens when you have an outside force influencing some of your actions (like Dalinar's being influenced by the thrill, Moash's experiences of discrimination ARE a factor in his actions) and you push ALL the responsibility from ALL your actions onto that force and how that can hinder both your ability to redeem yourself AND to move forward and progress positively as a person.

And I'm also very capable of yelling for hours abt non-redemption arc related aspects of OB BUT. This book is a brick and my thoughts on it are probably that times 10 and I do want to sleep tonight and I have no real conclusion other than that this is a really frickin good book that has the guts to explore a lot of extremely difficult and complex topics and it's great.