#HELAENA AND HER KIDS WERE INNOCENT AND IT'S HORRIBLE THAT HAPPENED

[nrilliree]

Jfc, the "Visenya daughter of Rhaenyra" fanfics are not only stupid, cringe and unsavoury, but also reek of misogyny- I came across one in which Visenya was like the other girls and all her brothers/cousins desired her (and of course the Velarion girls and Helaena were villains because they're women). Like frl, Luke had an Innocent crush on her (which made Rhaena, a canoncially gentle character a total bitch). Jace loved and desired her (and envious Baela wanted her dead). Then she got engaged to Aemond, and mean Helaena, who was having a love affair with her told her it was just a political alliance and he would never stop loving her and their kids. Aegon raped her because he couldn't resist her... I haven't finished reading this story because it was not even funny in this "It's so bad that it's hilarious" way. I find it disturbing the author seemed to perceive rape as a compliment. It's also crazy the author portrayed a father of three suddenly stopping to care about his girlfriend and family (I guess it happened in this fic) and abandon them for the sake of someone who's not like the other girls and hotter than his partner. And I don't even like helaemond (although I tolerate it because the fans are very peaceful). Why are women delulu enough to think a guy who cheated on his partner with someone else will be respectful and faithful to the new one? It's also crazy the author, who clearly eulogises the "tomboyish" Visenya at the same time demeans the canon, tomboy Baela and makes her jealous of Visenya's looks (iirc she envied her her big boobs, but given Baela is played by a Black actor it sounds vaguely racist). And it sucks according to the author, women's breasts and asses are not just their body parts, but toys for horny men to play with. I am also disgusted with this constant underrating of the so-called girly girls. Long story short, I hate it that those (in my view) self-insert fics are so full of internalized misogyny.

I was lucky that the fan fiction I read was just total TG cringe with completely OOC characters. Sometimes I turn on Wattpad out of boredom, but I gave up on looking for something from the HOTD fandom a long time ago, because most of them are these kinds of little monsters. But the biggest cringe I read was the opko, in which Rhaenyra's first daughter (with Laenor, of course, completely white and more true Targaryen than anyone else) was disowned in favor of Jace and hated by Rhaenyra because her appearance endangered her "sweet bastards". After marrying Daemon, this Mary Sue was abandoned by her in KL, because Rhaenyra didn't even want to look at her, so Alicent took over Mary Sue's care, who was like a wonderful real mother to her. Mary Sue married Aemond, sided with TG (until she opened her own faction and became the only rightful queen), and completely understood and supported Aemond after he murdered Lucerys.

And now my hits:

B&C didn't care about Haelena's children, and murdered Mary Sue and Aemond's children because Daemon told them to, and Rhaenyra knew about it.

Aemond murdered Daemon at God's Eye (without a problem, of course) and with the support of Mary Sue, who…

Controlled all the dragons. Literally all of them.

Rhaenyra murdered Jace in it, because he stood up for Mary Sue, whom Rhaenyra tried to kill.

It was so cringeworthy that I read it just for a laugh :D

If anyone wants to laugh at a cringe-worthy fic about the wonderful Aemond, who is the greatest and bravest knight on a white horse, and Mary Sue, who is loved by everyone and is the only rightful queen who murdered the horrible Rhaenyra, I have a link somewhere :P

[polkadotsocks1993]

I'm honestly not "Team Black" or "Team Green".

Both sides have nuances and flaws and people who don't deserve what happens to them because that's what happens when families feud. If you've ever had the displeasure of having a family matriarch/patriarch die and they were the only thing holding the family together, you know how HORRIBLE some of those relatives act. They'll do the worst things just to "get ahead" and the innocent cousins get caught in the crossfire. Lucerys did NOT deserve his fate, Jaeherys didn't deserve his, Helaena didn't deserve hers.

There's so much nuance and analysis that I could make, but with the first episode I'm personally glad they didn't show a lot of gore with B&C because as a newly postpartum mom of 3 with a kid the age of the twins, I COULD NOT listen to it.

But overall I think this season is shaping up to be a lot better than the last, especially with costumes and set design and I thought the whole episode was well done.

[lillysbitchfest]

Right, I see what’s going on here. Black Stan

I am not a stan. Of anything, I can like something and evaluate it's flaws. I favor Team Black over Team Green, because I like the characters better and think their reasons for fighting are better- at the same time I think monarchy is fundamentally wrong. Revenge is fundamentally wrong and not justice. I can understand a character's motivation while still thinking they are doing the wrong thing.

loves Daemon

Yup I love Daemon. He is an entertaining chaos beasty.

everyone else is wrong.

Generally I think my beliefs/opinions/takes are correct, that's why they are my opinions. If I didn't think they were correct I would change them? I don't understand this argument. Who has beliefs and opinions they don't think are correct?? I am willing, when confronted with sufficient evidence to change my mind though.

Makes sense why you felt the need to call out my post, but since we are on B&C, how about I point out how much of a coward he was for it?

He received notice of Luke’s death, not the party. For all they knew, it was just a welcome home feast. DAEMON WAS NOT PRESENT AND WOULD HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT THE FEAST WAS FOR. Any information he received was secondhand.

The whole having spies in King's Landing thing just went totally over your head I guess. There is no way that in communicating with Mysaria he didn't find out what happened to Aemond after he came back having killed Luce- now imagining even that it was just a welcome home feast and he didn't get word of Aegon's "Good start" line- then it was obvious to Daemon that Aemond wasn't punished in any way for breaking the rules about messengers and kinslaying, Aegon, acting as the leader, would be seen as either ordering or supporting Aemond's actions. The end.

Also, grieving parent? Yeah, Luke’s days were numbered the second Aegon the younger was born. No way Daemon would let bastards sit the iron throne before his ‘trueborn’ (his wedding to Rhaenyra isn’t valid as her husband was still alive when it took place. Oops) sons.

Pure speculation on your part, and I'm guessing some projection about your feelings about "bastards" to top it off... Gross my dude. Gross. (His wedding to Rhaenyra, in the TV show the version where her husband was still alive, was Valyrian- who are known to have poly-marriages. Try again. Or actually don't because this whole legitimacy stuff is supper gross.) Provide any evidence that Daemon was planning to kill his wife's sons, the children his daughters were engaged to. That he waited through ten peaceful years, in the book, eight in the show, without making any move on? Receipts. Provide them. Explain this plan he had and provide evidence from the show or book to support it. My evidence is B&C itself and stabbing Aemond through his false eye- niether act making sense unless they were vengeance for someone he loved.

Daemon literally mentions he is looking for an excuse to rile Aegon into action. He sees him as rash and thinks he can be goaded. Luke’s death gave him the opportunity to do something horrible and he took it.

Why a son for a son then? Why not all his kids? Why not kill Helaena? Why not everyone they could get their hands on? Why such a strike at a single son? If Daemon just wanted to do something horrible, why this limited horrible thing? If he wanted someone to report it- why not just Alicent? Kill Aegon's whole family and all the dragon riders they could get their hands on. It doesn't follow. It isn't a logical choice. It might have backfired and roused Helaena and got another dragon in the war- the only logic to it was that it wasn't logical. It was an emotional reaction. The reaction of a parent wanting the one he felt responsible for his pain to feel the same.

No man that sends two assassins to kill an innocent child while their mother and siblings look on is anything less than a coward.

Cool.

B&C and Helaena discourse is on a rise and yall know that's my roman empire so i WILL be giving my two cents (for the thousandth time😼)

First off, B&C

I see a lot of people claiming B&C was the Greens fault, but when you take a second to think you will see that nothing the Greens did as a whole caused B&C. It simply would not have happened if Aemond (1 singular green) had not killed Lucerys for taking his eye. (i believe this excuse comes more from a "well you reap what you sow this is what you get for usurping rhaenyra" mindset rather than thinking ALL the greens are directly to blame for B&C but whatevs) People argue it was Aegon's fault, too, because he celebrated Luke's death with a feast, but that's actually a headcanon. F&B states Aegon celebrated Luke's death, but it skips over any offense it caused Rhaenyra and Daemon. It only says that after learning of Luke's DEATH (not the feast) Daemon sends a letter telling Rhaenyra Luke would be avenged. It was not the feast it was the boy's death that led to B&C.

People also have been saying B&C was necessary and it simply wasn't. Jaehaerys was entirely unrelated to any issue regarding Luke, therefore it wasn't even really avenging him. Luke wasn't actually avenged until Aemond (his killer) died. B&C was not necessary to avenge Luke—it was more of an intimidation tactic on Daemon's behalf.

As for Helaena, people are saying she should've taken her kids, flown to Dragonstone, and bent the knee as per Rhaenyra's peace terms.

That's kind of just dumb lol. Rhaenyra's terms were not individual, she wanted ALL of her siblings to go to her and bend the knee, not just one. If Helaena went to Dragonstone by herself, Aegon would still be Rhaenyra's enemy. Helaena and her children, Aegon's heirs, would become high profile hostages.

Also, Helaena is the queen of the Green Faction. She was crowned by Alicent alongside Aegon. Nothing in F&B implies she's NOT in support of Aegon. If anything, she's passive. She councils him against his stupidity, but that doesn't mean she's a secret supporter of Rhaenyra.

The Greens also happen to be her closest family. Her mom and brothers—people she grew up with. If I remember correctly, she used to visit Alicent in the Tower of the Hand with her children every night. She and Aegon shared a bed until her son was killed. She was described as a happy girl, and if she was miserable, she still clearly held love for her family.

Rhaenyra, however, is a stranger to her. Not just a stranger, but also someone that would mock her mother and her siblings at court.

She had no reason to go to Rhaenyra when the war began.

People are also quite weird about the topic of her suicide, but seeing as suicide is a real issue in a way that usurping, sending assassins after a child, and feeding a boy to a dragon are NOT I won't address that. You are weird if you be laughing about suicide tho ngl.

FINAL PSA: A lot of yall like to go "I love Helaena, she so sweet and gentle and innocent and kind and cute and she's the only green I love BUT..." Yall dont like Helaena and yall CAN admit it. She's a fictional character you dont have to pretend to like her just because you have a moral superiority complex.