#Goku thinks Gohan is dead

[t4tadrienette]

Goku definitely wanted to train Gohan for fun, just like Grandpa Gohan did with him, but then he wanted to respect Chichi's desire of him not becoming a fighter. He also spent 4 years of Gohan's life together and living peacefully.

But then he died, and when he came back, he found that Gohan was turned into a fighter by Piccolo, fair, I guess. He didn't see him fight, tho, he doesn't know the story behind him becoming a fighter, just that he was trained by Piccolo.

Then Gohan wants to go to Namek to find the dragon balls because he has to make sure their dead friends come back, and Goku goes wow that sounds like me, he also can't stand to stay on the side when it comes to these things.

Weeks pass, and now he's finally able to reach them on Namek. They have to fight, of course. Things happen. He's the only chance they have to defeat Freezer. Things fall apart now, Goku becomes Super Saiyan and tells Gohan to take Piccolo and get away. Goku is stuck alone on Namek. He saves himself by pure luck. He decides to stay where he is, to learn something new, to be able to also control his Super Saiyan state.

A year passes, and he comes back to earth. News from the future, saying that in 3 years, there's gonna be a new threat. They have to train, Gohan wants to train with him and Piccolo to fight this new threat. The three years have passed, and now there's another threat outside of the androids. Goku finally healed, he gets Gohan and tells him they're gonna train to defeat Cell. Gohan accepts to train with him. Gohan puts his all into that training, and Goku finds out Gohan has so many capabilities than what he shows. That's good! They have a chance at defeating Cell, maybe.

They finish their training, Goku wants Gohan to spend as much time with Chichi, and he wants to spend the remaining days before the Cell games as a family, you never know. The Cell games start, and Goku goes first to study him, to see how strong he is and if Gohan might have a chance. Oh, Gohan definitely has a chance. Come on, Gohan, now is your turn, I can tell you know you're stronger. Gohan is having difficulties, tho, Goku says it's just a matter of time before his fighting instict and anger sets in. But Gohan doesn't like fighting. That knowledge comes to Goku as a shock. He always assumed Gohan was fighting for the safety of the earth and for the love of fighting as well. At the end of the day, how could he think different, he never truly saw Gohan fighting, and at the end of the day, he was just picking up what Piccolo started in the first place. He never truly showed a disliking for fighting, or at least he never told him. He didn't know how in his first fighting against the Saiyans, he was petrified by fear. He wasn't there for the love of fighting, but because he had to, since he had this power.

Goku realises he miscalculated this. He immediately tells Krillin to pass him a bean so that he can get back into shape to go help him. Of course, Cell stops him before that. After Cell started to attack the others, finally Gohan snapped and unleashed his power, Goku was right after all. Gohan was definitely more powerful than him. He was the right warrior to defeat him. Gohan needs to defeat him once and for all, tho, but he doesn't. He says he has to have a slow and painful death. Those are some shocking words coming from Gohan. It doesn't sound like him. Well, now that has brought some problem, Cell is now about to explode and take all the earth with him. Now Goku has to make a decision. He will sacrifice himself. At the end of the day, he was the one to put Gohan in that position in the first place. It's only fair for him to do that. But, his sacrifice is useless, Cell comes back. Gohan tries his hardest, but his arm is broken. How can he defeat him now. But Goku is there to help him find the strenght and the others too. In the end, Gohan finds the strength to finally beat him.

It's time to revive people. There's still the problem of Goku not being able to be resurrected a second time. They think hey maybe we can use the dragon balls from Namek. But Goku stops them. He thinks that Bulma was right. He only attracts threats that put the earth in jeopardy, Piccolo, the Saiyans, the androids, and Cell. Maybe if he stays dead, they will stop coming. Like that, he will not put Gohan in danger anymore, Gohan will not have to fight anymore. So at the end of the day, it's better for him to stay away, rather than him staying with them, after all he was the one to put Gohan in that situation in the first place. In the end, he makes the selfless choice for Gohan. Maybe it's better for him not to have a father, but being safe, than having a father and being put into danger. At least, that's what he thinks is the right thing to do

[shannonsketches]

something something foils moving in opposite directions Goku's always happy to seek and fight stronger opponents because he spent most of his life being the strongest guy in the room and Vegeta wants to be the strongest/is always exhausted to find stronger opponents because he spent most of his life having to navigate his survival around the whims of the strongest guy in the universe room and so Goku has a foundation of safety and stability and so spends his time craving challenge and adventure and Vegeta has a foundation of challenge and adventure and spends his time craving safety and stability and the overlaid section of their venn diagram is that the only way they know how acquire and maintain those things is through battle

[correctdbzquotes]

Taking one break of many from quote posting to say very unseriously:

Why fight over who Gohan’s ‘true’ father is between Piccolo and Goku?? Can a child NOT have two fathers? Goku would be ecstatic at the idea, Gohan gets three parents! All he had was his grandpa growing up!

[vanderdyks]

I literally dont know how to continue explaining to people that part of the reason Goku decided to stay dead was because Gohan hated fighting.

He didnt know this until cell. He literally had no idea. Gohan NEVER gave any indication whatsoever. Couple that with the fact Bulma pointed out most of people threatening the Earth during that point in time were all people wanting Goku. The saiyans. Frieza. The androids. Doctor Gero. Cell.

All because of Goku. Its not his fault but his very existence consistently put the Earth in danger. He truly believed Earth would be safer without him and therefore, gohan wouldnt be consistently placed into battle.

Because Goku didnt know gohan hated fighting. But once he knew came the very interwoven nature of these threats he brought making his own son fight because gohan felt he HAD to. Not because he wanted to. For goku, protecting the earth always aligned with his own love for fighting. But gohan fought out of necessity, out of the very idea that they couldnt afford to do it without him. He has this power he didnt ask for so he must use it right? Because it would be selfish if he didnt.

But goku... goku thought gohan was like him. Gohan WANTED to return to help fight vegeta. He WANTED to go to namek. He WANTED to stay and fight after piccolo almost died to frieza. Goku didnt see gohan train that first year. Didnt witness what it took to make gohan a fighter. All he saw was his son who now was strong and wanted to join the fight like his dad. And he knows gohan is more powerful than them, knows he can stop cell, FELT IT. Gohan has to defeat cell because no one else can. So he thinks if gohan gets angry enough fighting cell, itll be the answer. Because thats how its always been for goku. And in thirty seconds piccolo makes him realize he's wrong. He doesnt argue back, he listens and concedes and realizes that piccolo is right. And suddenly goku wants to abandon his plan and stop the fight. He made a mistake. He intends to get gohan out. And in the end, he still ended up being right, but it doesnt change what goku now knows. Gohan isnt like him and he doesnt enjoy fighting.

Goku would have NEVER made gohan fight if he thought he didnt want to. You know this whenever adult gohan gets involved in a fight and goku apologizes that he had to. Or when someone suggests gohan for a battle and goku is like nah he's "out of practice," even when they have time FOR PRACTICE. He never wants to force gohan into a situation like cell again. Because cell was a mistake and goku has learned from it. So he never asks Gohan to fight anymore. If Gohan wants in then of course he's in. But he wants his son to be able to choose that. He wants gohan to be HAPPY and if thats not fighting then thats perfectly alright with goku.

So it wasnt just about keeping the earth safe. Or his friends. It was knowing that in the safety of gokus absence, gohan wouldnt have to fight either. There would be less threats, less chances of his son being forced into battle. And sure he also trusted that gohan and the others could keep the earth safe if they had to, but he was banking on the threat level significantly decreasing instead.

And decrease it did. They had seven whole years of peace. Not a single threat. Meanwhile from the moment Raditz shows up to gokus death to cell, it all takes place within the span of FIVE YEARS. The longest they went without a threat was the three year gap spent training for the androids. And they spent every waking moment knowing they were coming.

And then if you look at trunks future... majority of the human population being wiped out by the androids. Majority of gokus friends. His son. All dead. Because of him. Because he defeated the red ribbon army when he was a child. And that very easily could have been their future as well. So Goku does his job in preventing that. He saves all of them. And if hes the only one who ends up dead, well... it doesnt matter. Because they aren't. And he intends to keep it that way. So he stays in otherworld, to keep them safe and to give his son a future that he can choose. If Gohan has to fight, then he can. But at least his father wouldnt be the one bringing the threats to his door.

[saiyanmazen]

Parenting styles in Dragon Ball Z (and Super)

You know, to me, the interesting thing about this scene (and the one where they could to the aforementioned park) isn't the fact that Vegeta keeps his promise.

It's the fact that he uses positive reinforcement to motivate Trunks.

Do you think Vegeta was ever rewarded for landing a good hit? Definitely not. It was expected of him.

As an expert in children's development, I find it fascinating to look at this example of Vegeta parenting Trunks and what it says about his parenting style. I've seen headcanons that go from calling 'Dadgeta' authoritarian to neglectful, but I disagree.

In the following, I will briefly describe the four styles of parenting with focus on the authoritarian and the authoritative styles. I'll also compare them to how DBZ parents appear to raise their children, but mainly focus on Vegeta.

Authoritarian:

This is the old school parenting method where restrictions and punishments go hand in hand. The parents expect the children to obey rules without a clear explanation as to why and corporal punishment is used when the children overstep.

Unsurprisingly, it seems like a lot of people believe this is how Vegeta raises his children (If he is even involved; I'll address this later on.) It was likely how he was raised.

However, the only parent we actually see using this style is Chichi. She's not entirely unreasonable, but we do see her expect things from Gohan without explanations and she has a lot of restrictions set up. This might have something to do with Goku's parenting style, but more on that later.

Piccolo also uses authoritarianism with Gohan, but he isn't trying to parent him, just train him.

What's really interesting is that children raised in a household practicing authoritarianism tend to hold a lot of anger inside. They also have low self-efficacy and high self blame. Remind you of someone?

Indulgent

Here we see nurturing, accepting parents who don't have behavioral expectations of their children. They are responsive to the children's needs and wishes, but do not expect them to be the same toward other people. The parents want to be the child's friend rather than a demanding parent.

Children of indulgent parents tend to grow up without a sense of others' boundaries and generally have less discipline than their peers. They lack impulse control and are often irresponsible.

In DBZ we do see signs of this parenting style, but only limited. It's not commonly used in Asia and therefore, Toriyama didn't add it. In GT it's obvious that both Trunks and Bulla seem have been parenting this way by Bulma. It's also why many doubt that Vegeta has been much involved.

It's also easy to argue that Goku parents this way, although it's up for discussion.

Neglectful

Although many think that the indulgent parenting style have created a generation of undisciplined young people, the neglectful parenting style has actually had a greater effect.

The parents are either more interested in themselves and their own goals than their children's. (Although sometimes it's because the parents struggle with stress or depression) Children of these parents are usually lonely and melancholic, often have very low self esteem and are needy after affection and approval. This leads them to be easily manipulated and they are at a higher risk to end up in abusive relationships.

I think many of the Vegeta antis and those claiming Goku is a bad parent would place the two Saiyans here.

However, Goku is clearly involved in Gohan's upbringing, albeit choosing a more casual approach than Chichi, and returns after being dead for seven years, ready to be involved with Goten (and Gohan if he wants it). The reason that Goku mainly focuses on training isn't just because it's his own interest. It's what he knows for sure how to do.

Most importantly: it was how Goku was raised himself. First by Grandpa Gohan and later from his other father figure, Master Roshi. It isn't just in his blood; it's in his upbringing.

And then there's Vegeta’s parenting style which was my main focus for this post. It got a little out of control, but we have finally arrived at the last parenting style:

Authoritative

This is the most modern parenting style, even though it isn't really new. It's been used for years in well functioning familes. This type of parent is both demanding and nurturing, being present and engaged in their children's lives. They explain things to their children, teach them how to regulate their feelings and therefore expect a mature behavior from them.

Children of authoritative parents tend to be more successful in their adult lives, capable of discipline and well-liked. Because they aren't constantly being restricted, they naturally develope autonomy within set boundaries and learn to respect others, regardless of authority.

So, what does this have to do with Vegeta and Trunks?

As I mentioned in the beginning, in the scene in the Gravity Chamber, Vegeta uses positive reinforcement to motive Trunks. Positive reinforcement has proven to be a healthy way to motivate children (and animals) and is a part of the authoritative style. By using it, Vegeta provides Trunks with rules that foster motivation and discipline in the child. The fact that Vegeta knows about the amusement and can use it as an incentive also shows that he is involved enough to know what may get Trunks to do his best.

But the most important thing we see is that Vegeta upholds his promise, despite hating every second of it. It shows that he respects Trunks' efforts and achievement. By honoring his word, he also teaches Trunks to do the same.

Of course, this is a small scene and we don't know how Vegeta behaves otherwise in regards to Trunks. But it's safe to say that Vegeta does take his son's wishes into account and uses it to encourage him to move beyond his limits.

I admit that I'm not a fan of GT and don't consider it canon, especially because of Toriyama's lack of involvement. So, while I dislike many aspects of DBS, I do think it's the best representation of the characters.

In Super, both Goten and Trunks are well adjusted boys who both have discipline and test the boundaries of their autonomy. They act like boys their age, albeit with incredibly strength, and it goes to show that their parents have raised them well.

Of course, it's also important to remember that both DBZ and DBS (and even GT) are a product of their time and the parenting styles reflect that. DBZ is from the 80's where the authoritarian (Chichi) and indulgent (Goku) styles were the most common. GT is from the 90's where the media started to focus on indulgent and neglectful parents - even though it wasn't a new thing - and it's shown that Trunks, Bulla and Goten have grown up as spoiled and undisciplined. DBS shows that the parents in the show have become authoritative and their children's behavior reflects that.

It's clear that the parents are doing their best and that the fathers have become more involved nowadays than before. This is the case in modern parenting as well.

Anyway, this is the end of my long rant. I think, as both an expert in children's development and as a parent myself, it's interesting to look into the relationships between the characters, especially the father-son interactions which are explored the most. There's no doubt that Toriyama knew the importance of being a father and wanted to portray it, mainly in Goku and Gohan's relationship.

I don't think Toriyama saw Goku nor Vegeta as bad fathers, but he knew that everyone has different strengths, even in parenthood.

[tobiasdrake]

Incidentally, we can't really talk about pragmatism without talking about Future Trunks.

Krillin is a devious and underhanded martial artist, but still a martial artist. Trunks is an assassin. He goes straight for the throat at every opportunity. He's not here to fight; He's here to kill.

Much like his father, Trunks is not a martial artist. Every bit Vegeta's son, he's naturally gifted and has already become a Super Saiyan by both of his first appearances - in the story, when he fights Frieza on Earth, and also chronologically in Trunks the Story: A Lone Warrior.

I can't really say he's untrained. He was trained in the basics by Gohan. But Gohan is also not a martial artist; He's had one year and six months of proper martial arts training. One year from Piccolo and six months from Krillin.

Gohan's a fighter, guided by emotion moreso than technique. So there's a limit to how much Trunks can learn from him. Even Gohan admits that he's a poor substitute for his dad.

This, I should note, is a meaningful admission from Gohan because this chapter was published at the very beginning of the Cell Games. Gohan outright saying "I wanted to follow in my dad's footsteps but the clothes aren't enough" sets up an important contrast to the Gohan of the present time who has had that time with Goku and is ready to take his place.

But his concession of inadequacy is important for how we interpret Trunks as well. Trunks knows the stuff. He can perform Bukujutsu. Throw ki blasts. Power up into a Super Saiyan. But he's not Goku or Krillin or Yamcha or Tenshinhan; Like Gohan and Vegeta, he is a fighter, not a martial artist.

His heart is in the right place, but he's reckless and foolhardy. Chomping at the bit for a piece of vengeance.

This recklessness carries into his journey to the past. He never quite learns from his brief offscreen shitstomp by the Twins. He returns to a point in history just after Goku's return from space. Historically, this was a key moment in history where Goku showed up in the nick of time to save Earth from Frieza and his father King Cold. Which should technically be Great King Cold as it's Cold-Daio but he's far from the first king to have his Greatness dropped in translation, eh Piccolo?

But when Goku's late to the party, Trunks starts to worry and decides to step in himself.

Look at him. The spitting image of his father, full of piss and vinegar.

It's here that we get to see Trunks as a fighter for the very first time. Even chronologically; In Trunks the Story, they skip most of the action; It's very brief.

I mean. It's an absolutely hilarious joke that we see Trunks flying off half-cocked to go get revenge and then he's waking up from a coma on the very next page. Amazing cutaway gag.

But we're here to talk about Trunks's DNA as a fighter, so Frieza offers us the first material we have to work with. And Trunks? He does not fuck around.

Your soldiers are dead. Who's next?

You're dead. Who's next?

Your father's dead. We done here?

Trunks gives zero shits. In the span of two chapters, he massacres Frieza, Cold, and all of their soldiers without an ounce of hesitation. He is not playing.

He was even paying attention to the part where Frieza can survive grievous amounts of harm and come back. He takes great care to thoroughly and utterly annihilate every last bit of Frieza. Taking no chances.

Trunks isn't here to fight. He's here to kill. He is not interested in a protracted martial arts bout.

This fight, incidentally, also gives us a moment to talk about Trunks's sword. Cold-Dumbass thinks Trunks's sword is the key to his power.

He's an idiot. There's a reason he only exists for like three chapters and one page of a fourth. This man doesn't even understand how weapons work in anime.

Japan and the West have very different relationships with weapons. When Westerners think of weapons, we think of guns. Even when we write medieval weapons, we treat them like guns. Guns are disposable tools that bestow killing power upon their wielder. Any average Joe with a gun suddenly becomes a lethal warrior.

But Japan has a rich history and philosophy baked into their culture surrounding weapons and their role in martial arts. In anime, a weapon does not grant power; It manifests power. The weapon is an extension of its wielder. It's a means by which the wielder expresses their own strength.

In Trunks's hands, that sword can cut through Frieza. Because Trunks is powerful, and his might outshines Frieza's.

In Cold's hands, however, that sword is harmless. Because Cold is weak and cowardly. (Uh, relative to Trunks.) He has no power to express.

But Goku is strong. Goku knows power intimately, far beyond Trunks's understanding. And so Trunk's sword, his expression of power, is useless against Goku.

This is what Trunks's sword means, to him and to the story. It's an extension of his character and his strength; The means by which he delivers his killing force. Which is precisely what makes this moment so devastating.

When 18 breaks Trunks's sword, she breaks Trunks. The damage to his blade is honestly not that severe. It could probably be reforged. But the damage to Trunks's self-image, to his psyche, is unshakable.

Trunks never uses his sword again. He leaves it on the plane here.

And then we never see it again. Instead, Trunks decides to pursue greater martial arts training alongside his father, following in Vegeta's footsteps.

But he never quite loses his assassin streak. Though he begins to develop his abilities as a fighter from this point forward, Trunks is goal-oriented. He wants to kill the Twins. He doesn't care how that happens.

In the original version of these events, before Cell further altered the timeline, those blueprints were the key to Trunks's victory against the Twins of his timeline.

Though Cell has no idea how Trunks pulled off this victory despite being too weak to defend himself from Cell himself, the discovery of Gero's lab offers us a possible explanation.

The Twins have shutdown switches built into their systems. Though 17 destroyed the remote Gero built, Bulma is able to use these blueprints to build a new one.

So there's a solid implication that the weaker Trunks of Cell's timeline took Bulma's remote home with him and disabled the Twins that way. Again: He's not here to fight. He's here to kill. It doesn't matter how he does it.

...well, I guess it does matter 'cause that Trunks got wasted by Cell five minutes later.

Point is, Trunks wears his goal-oriented ruthlessness on his sleeve. He's not driven by pride of by love of the art. He has a job he's here to do.

However that single-minded focus, that determination to get it done, also holds him back. Trunks has never had proper martial training. He's been taught by Future Gohan, who is not a martial artist. And he's... taught himself near Vegeta. His developed his abilities and increased his strength, but he doesn't know fighting the way Goku or Krillin or Yamcha or Ten do. Nor does he have Vegeta's natural brilliance and general understanding.

Trunks, for all his strength and all his determination and all his killing instinct, is an amateur. We all know what happened to him in the last fight he ever fought here in the present.

Vegeta breaks the limits of the Super Saiyan and realizes that this power is good but comes at a cost, so he should only do it sparingly.

Goku breaks the limits of the Super Saiyan and realizes this form sucks and is stupid, and decides to go a different route entirely.

But Trunks breaks the limits of the Super Saiyan and goes "AWWW YEAH THIS IS THE SHIT GIMME THAT POWER" because he doesn't know. He has a killer's instinct, not a martial artist's. He's never been trained in technique.

We see, over the course of this series, both Trunks's strengths and his weaknesses as a fighter. In every altercation, he goes straight for the throat. Which is brutally effective when he has the power to back it up but Trunks, more than anyone, is vulnerable to a crushing defeat if he doesn't have the Power Level to back it up. He has nothing else.

Still, he gets to go out on a high note. His final chapter sees him return to the future, not with the remote but with the great strength he gained in the Room of Spirit and Time. And he gets to clean house his way - slaughtering the Twins efficiently and thoroughly, in true Trunks fashion.

And also getting Cell for good measure.

Godspeed, killer. You were the best your world had left to offer but you rose to the occasion, and that's the most that could be asked of anyone.

[galexibrain]

I think it's often overlooked how fucking traumatic that entire thing must be for Goku. Not only is his opponent - who he was just barely keeping up with as is - turning into a giant ape, but he's also just learning that Goku himself was the one who killed his grandfather:

And like. Wow. What a day. First he comes back from the dead to find everyone but Krilling and Gohan dead, then he seriously struggles to keep up with Vegeta, and NOW he gets to learn that the monster his grandfather used to warn him about was HIM.

Sucks.

[fanfic-lover-girl]

Goku may have failed Gohan in some ways as a father, but Piccolo was never and will never be Gohan's Daddy

So when I was younger, I enjoyed a handful of fics centred on Piccolo and Gohan's relationship. I love how much Piccolo came to care for Gohan and it was nice to see Dad!Piccolo every now and then...but Dad!Piccolo can't ever measure up to fics where Goku is a great dad. I understand why some people may believe Piccolo is Gohan's true dad but I don't agree, especially now as an adult woman with my father now dead.

Disclaimer: I am basing this off my experience watching Dragonball, DBZ, DBGT and most of the DBZ/GT movies. I have not watched DBS nor will I ever. That series can screw itself.

Piccolo's responsibility in destroying Gohan's childhood

Piccolo is the one who thrust Gohan into the world of fighting and world-ending battles. He kidnapped Gohan and left Gohan to fend for himself for months. I will argue that Piccolo started Gohan's warrior path on a traumatic note and that's partly why Gohan does not gravitate towards fighting as he grows older. Yes, Piccolo changed but the damage can not be undone.

Difference in species

This may look superficial at first glance but it is significant as you look into it. Namekians are radically different from humans/saiyans physically, emotionally and sexually. That means that Piccolo can not advise Gohan on various aspects of his life as he grows older, especially during puberty. Piccolo can't teach him to shave. Piccolo can't give him the sex talk and talk to him about girls. Piccolo can't help Gohan with his friendships. Piccolo can't relate to whatever saiyan or human urge Gohan may experience. A father is supposed to model a good man for his kids and teach his son to be one. Piccolo can't offer that to Gohan, unfortunately.

Emotional distance

I see Gohan as a very emotional and affectionate person. You see this when he interacts with Goku, Goten and Videl. Piccolo is more reserved and closed off. Usually when Piccolo and Gohan interact, there's always some kind of distance between them. However, there are a few times when Piccolo will rest his hand on Gohan's head or shoulder when he feels extremely proud like after the Cell games. However, I don't think this would have been enough from a father figure for Gohan. When Gohan is crying after Goku's sacrifice, it's Krillin who steps up and comforts Gohan. When the Z fighters go to the lookout after Gohan's victory, it's Yamcha who carries Gohan. This does not mean Piccolo does not care for Gohan! I am just saying that Gohan likes physical forms of affection too, but that's not Piccolo's love language.

Fighting is all they have in common

We don't see Piccolo and Gohan have any extensive scenes together outside the context of battles and fighting. What exactly do they do together for fun? What do they talk about? In the movies, we see kid Gohan being silly around Piccolo and Piccolo tolerating him, but that hardly counts. I get the vibe from the series that Gohan's visits to Piccolo are brief and they don't have much small talk. With Goku, we see Gohan and him enjoy pastimes together like fishing, bathing and eating. In the lead-up to the Cell games, we see them reminisce about Gohan's childhood and have fun as a family at Gohan's birthday party. Why wasn't Piccolo there?

Piccolo is not involved wholistically in Gohan's life

Piccolo only really exists and functions in the fighting realm of Gohan's life. This is why their relationship does not feel as close as Gohan grows older and starts his career and family. Piccolo hardly expresses any interest in the other facets of Gohan's life. I don't even recall Piccolo interacting at all with Pan or Videl at the end of Z or GT. He is not close with Chi Chi and Goten, Gohan's family. I think Piccolo is closer to the Son family in Super but I don't care. Compare this with Goku who encourages Gohan to study, teases him about Videl and spends time with Pan.

Conclusion: Goku is Gohan's daddy and Piccolo can't fill that gap.

This does not take away the fact that Piccolo protected Gohan and loved him in his own way. Sacrificing himself for Gohan multiple times. Piccolo was the one who understood Gohan's mindset during the Cell games (probably because he was the one who beat baby Gohan into a fighter and saw his timidness up close vs. Goku who came back to life and only saw hero Gohan being badass all the time) and was the first Z fighter to step in during Gohan's fight against Cell. But Piccolo is better labelled as a friend or mentor to Gohan. Maybe uncle or big brother. Goku is Gohan's father, Gohan sees Goku as his daddy, and Piccolo will never fill that role for Gohan.

[grimmcheems]

Wrong Timeline Trunks!

For some reason I managed to draw this entire mini comic at midnight oop. Rip my sleep bc I work tmr. Anyways. This is my Future!Chichi AU with a dash of my dead!Chichi AU.🤭 Trunks didn’t set the coordinates right and landed them in the wrong timeline. They still decide to stop by to restock supplies and Chichi goes out to hydrate. I have a whole fic for this (the future timeline with chichi and trunks and mai) and it even has a dash of GokuBlack! POV.(ref back to my past arts about Goku Black and Chichi.). This is also a reference to my previous art of Chichi dying of the heart virus instead of Goku, so it’s basically a world without Chichi or Goten.

Goku and Chichi panic at seeing each other overall bc they think they are imagining things, Chichi has trauma from Goku Black and Goku fully accepted her death and that he’d never see her again but this interaction really throws them in for a loop. Poor baby Gohan is trying to understand what’s going on and Trunks arrives a second too late and now they have to explain themselves oop.

Man I rly gotta finish writing this fic lmao🗿💀👩🏽‍🦯✍🏽

[gokustits]

Me 99% of the time: *thinking about how cute and happy goku is*

Me 1% of time: *thinks about goku believed he brought all the threats to earth so stayed dead just so everyone could live in peace and said gohan was a better person than him*

[zeevoidlight]

Why didn't he protected them

Is actually difficult for me to discern because Vegeta and Bulma went from getting close to each other and starting to trust each other enough to be intimate, even if it was just for the sex, to Vegeta not caring if she and baby Trunks died at all, and Bulma being very distant from Vegeta while still being in a relationship. And I don't believe the thing some say that he didn't actually cared for her or didn't actually noticed her in a deeper way until much later (basically the idea that Vegeta was just Trunks sperm donor and only was with Bulma for the sex), nah. diss's moch complcated, i swear (nah not really, I just want an excuse to talk more about my obsession). (Note that I watched the latin version so my interpretation of the characters and context might be different from the English version).

I'll talk about these event and about saiyan culture regarding babies, Vegeta and Bulma's relationship during the Cell saga, and how Vegeta might have felt towards Baby Trunks and Future Trunks.

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Saiyans, family and culture

The popular idea is that yes, he was a major jerk by letting Bulma and Baby Trunks almost die at the start of the Android saga, and yeah, he actually was. But one thing that people often forget is that he is not human, he is a saiyan, and that kind of behavior wasn't that abnormal for his culture/species. Is actually expected.

I mean, Saiyan's used to send their babies (the weak ones) in capsules to other planets to pop out of the ship, project an artificial moon into the sky and start making havoc for months until everyone was dead. If the baby survives they will later go to the planet for him eventually to claim the planet and sell it, and I guess later reintegrate the little saiyan into their society again. Like a rite of passage just to acquire the right to live, otherwise they just die unceremoniously.

Even Bardock was like that (pre retcon because i will use the saiyan lore of the era to explain something of the same time period of it's creation). While the others were like "hey! You got a baby kid! Aren't you going to go to planet Vegeta to check on him? How about a celebration or something", and Bardock is like "NO. Who would want to visit a low class soldier like that, I'm not r-[redacted]" (man... DBZ Bardock was a different animal entirely, i freaking loved him). (I have the theory that Raditz was actually in the lower end of high class soldiers. maybe will talk about it in another post).

Anyway, yeah, that's basically the way of thinking of saiyans. A little bit like Piccolo's tough love type of survival training with Gohan but even more savage and detached because if they died and it was their kid it was gonna suck really bad and hurt a lot their pride but what had to happen happened since they cannot get involved in those first years and cannot go save them, end of story, make another baby, maybe the next one will be stronger. They just had babies to send them off, and they have a blood relation with each other but they didn't had the concept of a family, not exactly, like humans would have, usually though, because once again the royal family did had those kinds of bonds to precisely preserve their lineage and secure their babies would born powerful above everyone else.

Of course we all know Bardock was still worried about Kakarott and he wanted to appear tougher with his teammates, he was worried the same way every other saiyan does it in a very distant manner to not get their feelings get in the way of their job as warriors (I mean, he did passed by the nursery in his hurry and stopped to check on Goku while he was there after all). Much like King Vegeta himself who said that he didn't care about what happened to his son, Vegeta, after some saiyan royal adviser (or knight, idk) asks him if it's true that he will have to give his son to Frieza because Vegeta was going to be real in danger if he did in the flashback in the Frieza saga. He wasn't going to say "yes i do feel terrible for my son and it hurts me deeply" even if he was absolutely devastated, he says that he doesn't care because he cannot appear weak, and because it was also true what he said about being more angered by how Frieza had them under his thumb, in that moment he was decided to confront Frieza so he couldn't let himself feel.

And later Vegeta himself said he didn't cared about his race or his father to Dodoria when he was revealing the truth about their planet's destruction while at the same time is true that he was angered about being lied to and about being kept in their control since childhood . The thing is Vegeta doesn't care about the actual people of his race but more about what they represent and are supposed to be, only those who are saiyan in blood and meaning are worthy of calling themselves saiyan, that's why he doesn't revive them but he does care deeply and is proud of it, just in another level. And regarding his father we know he was lying because every time he remembers him in the series he does it fondly and with a lot of pride, like when he's outright telling Goku to avenge their parents, or when remembering him to give himself confidence that he will be able to become Ssj. Is not like they don't "care", but they have to be intelligent about what to reveal so it cannot be taken against them later and to a degree convince themselves on getting detached from many things to keep their fighting instincts up front and take decisions with their heads cold whatever had to happen. Just like we hear him say all terrified in Namek when Krillin got impaled by Frieza "What an idot!...That's what happened to him for paying attention to that Namekuseijin! (Dende)", and then after Gohan looses his mind and knocks Frieza down momentarily Vegeta tells Gohan "Don't loose your time worrying about him! [Krillin]. Do you think Frieza was going to die with that?!". Is what they don't say and try to hide (as we see explicitly with Vegeta when confronting Frieza he purposefully hid the existence of Goku from him and lied, making Frieza believe that Vegeta himself was the only saiyan survivor left but in his thoughts we hear him say "and Kakarott...").

Vegeta's priorities

Same can be said of Vegeta with baby Trunks, i would believe. Their children are their legacy in a way after all, and like an extension of themselves and their own ego. But what made Vegeta forget the feelings and pride he might have had with Bulma and Trunks to not even being a thing that was important is literally everything else going on around him at the same time in those years. It was a very conflicting era for him in several fronts, specially related to his place in the world, his newfound freedom from Frieza's hand since he was a child, him getting used to a new life in another culture, another planet, other type of people, his love relationship, his place as a saiyan in relation to the other few of his species, his title as prince among the low class saiyans that had surpassed him by this point and not by little, his twice stolen destiny to be the the legendary super saiyan that now that he became one as well he had to demonstrate he was the better Ssj among them, the news of him getting killed in the near future in another timeline by just some rando earthling androids that somehow were stronger than Frieza and that the android he defeated (19) alongside the other one (Gero) weren't the right ones, he was really pissed about it and starting to get worried, they couldn't sense the androids by their chi (ki), it was becoming a mess, and he absolutely HAD to be the one that would kill all the androids all on his own to go back to his rightful place in the power scale. Is quite the heavy burden.

So, family? his son? Bulma? ultimately they were at the end of the list of his priorities. And that is very clear thorough this entire first part, even when he was officially in his relationship with Bulma.

Bulma

That's partially why Bulma was attracted to him in the first place though, because he was extremely determined in his ambitions, she respects that, and saw how deeply it was hurting him when he had that training accident and was subconsciously talking in his sleep. She was going to carry that responsibility for him so he could focus on himself. That's why she doesn't reclaim him anything or judges him on things related to that other than jokingly. She knew what she was getting into and has always known. Unfortunately she isn't that responsible of a person herself though. That's why she herself puts her own life and Baby Trunks life in danger, because she is just as determined and obstinate, and Vegeta knows that as well, that's why he doesn't "care", because he respects her decisions as well (and ultimately can't do much about it either). If she wants to put their own lives in danger because she thinks she's up to their game is her responsibility then, not his, and he cannot get involved because he has a job to do regarding himself and his own battles, he had to be detached. Also he was annoyed and fed up with Bulma's stubbornness since he already told her not to be a stupid and do stupid things like put herself in danger way before when Frieza went to Earth, and now she's doing it again (the first time he thought it was hot though (it was so funny that he looks back at her and then talks to himself all thoughtful like "Not only she's vulgar but she's aggressive/daring too", translation -> 'I might like this chick'), but this time is a not cute at all). I don't think it was something personal, not even the "[..] foolish woman and her blasted child" thing, like he says in the english dub, he had more important things he had to worry about. What he says to Trunks in the latin dub is "What stupidities are you saying. I don't care in the slightest, you idiot" (i wish I could have found the japanese one but it is what it is and is the closest I have to it) so he doesn't say mean things to Bulma or Trunks specifically. The interesting part here is to think if Vegeta was saying "I don't care" because he actually didn't care, or "I don't care" not because he didn't but because he couldn't. Vegeta is terrified of feeling and has always been. And yes, I say he was absolutely right because what saiyans try to avoid by giving too information and care is exactly what happened and Gero used her as a distraction, blasted the place and with it Bulma's ship and escaped thinking that they were going to be too busy saving her to notice where he ran to. Still a dick move but I cannot blame him too much. So yeah, it is very much in the tone of if Bulma thinks she can be in the middle of the battle field then so be it, if they survive they'll prove themselves not to be to useless after all, if they die it will suck but it had to be for being idiots.

Being a warrior

Vegeta is a warrior first and foremost. And him being a warrior is why later he is excited to see Cell's perfect form, just like Goku (being a pure blooded saiyan) he cannot contain himself from seeing what immense power looks like, and dares Future Trunks to attack him if Trunks had the balls to do it in order to stop him. Like "bro, are you really gonna to go against your pops? prove it. That's why Future Trunks cannot comprehend him, because Trunks is part earthling and cannot fathom someone getting excited about fighting for the sake of fighting itself and proving one's self where power is the only thing that matters. And why Vegeta cannot stand Future Trunks either, because F Trunks fights for justice and peace.

Baby Trunks

About Baby Trunks, we can only speculate of course but I would assume baby Trunks was conceived right after Vegeta became super saiyan (?) because later in the Buu saga kid Trunks was able to become Ssj without any effort just like Goten (who was definitely conceived during that week Goku was in Ssj the whole time), while present/future Gohan and Future Trunks had to get the transformation the OG hard way like their fathers. I guess future Trunks did accidentally change the time where he would be conceived in the present timeline by just a bit since we do see that Vegeta becomes Ssj in future timeline, probably after Goku dies (he was present with the others in Goku's house when he died and Bulma already had Baby Future Trunks with her) and before the androids appear in the future timeline as we see him transformed to fight, though that's still my speculation.

I think even though Trunks was still a baby maybe there was a way for Vegeta to sense his initial power level (? I'm just assuming some things here). And I don't remember exactly when did saiyan babies were packed and sent to planets to conquer them (maybe a few months old and expected to destroy the people in the planet in around 6 months from arrival having Goku and Earth as an example in the Bardock special) but Baby Trunks definitely doesn't look powerful or very strong regardless, not compared to Vegeta himself as a baby. And Vegeta knew that the mix between saiyans with earthlings produced a stronger breed but just look at this little guy, he looks more earthling than saiyan without much promises, might as well not have much saiyan blood in him, he didn't had his black/dark hair, he wasn't even born with a tail. And also was being treated... well like a baby but an earthling one.

He probably was conflicted about the whole baby thing, specially by how he was taught on his saiyan side despite being from the royal family (since the royal family is one of the few that can actually have familial ties similar to humans), and how being now on Earth his perfectly normal for a saiyan actions were taken from an earthling perspective as not being adequate, but he couldn't entertain the thought for too long since the androids were gonna kill everyone if the warning was true anyways.

Vegeta didn't really considered Baby Trunks to be someone he should put any attention to. Although deep down he cared to a degree as in being an extension of his pride and how Trunks was ultimately "representing him" as his son. How that affected his relationship with Bulma too in this time period is important. Like, he seems angry that Bulma tells him that his presence made Trunks cry after his fight 19, and that is quite mean for her to say that to him, but he can't reply anything to her and just tch's and looks away all annoyed but doesn't say anything or fights her on it, so i can imagine he was feeling conflicted about how to act or respond on top of everything that he had to think about.

Pride on Future Trunks and school of hard knocks

Only when he discovered that the mysterious badass warrior from the future was his own son, the one that he was dismissing, then he started to quietly and secretly take pride on who he would become and started to pay attention to both F Trunks (in his own saiyan way) and much later to Baby Trunks because babies are not viewed as important in saiyan culture, still focusing on the battle first. Much like Bardock when he started to have his visions of Goku right at the very end of his life he started to view grown up F Trunks as more of an equal rather than competition, and seeing him grown up made it easier for him to bond. And so Vegs is like ".... Fuck yeah".

"Look at my son, Cell. He's not as cool as me but he's damn close" lol

He of course was also very prideful and wouldn't bother with any family related stuff the way Bulma (and F Trunks) were pressuring him to be, and she kinda was ridiculing him about it (jokingly though, never seriously) just to evidence him and kinda "hit him over the head" for his behavior. And his natural reaction is of course to appear tough in front of everyone else, like Bardock, like King Vegeta, and like his usual self, and throw all that family nonsense out the window. He still was very prideful and had to keep a face, but that is what would come bite him in the ass hard later on.

Trunks took the wrong way Vegeta's actions. He wasn't purposefully ignoring him, he didn't had time to bond or make him understand his methods, or teach him spelling everything out for him, at least the way he knew how to do it which is by the saiyan way, which was never going to work the way he remembered it because Trunks is half earthling, and that's something Goku also partially fumbled up with Gohan and his Rage form, but Vegeta was actually trying to teach Trunks the hard way. Vegeta was trying to actually come up with strategies, occupied on bringing solutions to the table that Trunks couldn't come up with for years in just the few days they had. Goku definitely knew it. Trunks is all "my dad has been on that rock for 3 days and he doesn't even look at me or train me" and Goku is like "shit! Vegeta is a Genius! He's trying to find a way to surpass the super saiyan", and Trunks can't understand what's happening while the two pure blood adult saiyans are talking. Like, remember the scene where F Trunks attacked Vegeta? Vegeta was actually trying to parent as a saiyan there, and feeling proud of Trunks before and after Trunks attacked him because he actually did it. He called him stupid and all but it was always accompanied with a lesson he wanted Trunks to learn, even if it was only to make him learn respect Vegeta's place as his father (and Trunks eventually came to respect him despite his shortcomings).

Vegeta and Bulma

Anyway... regarding Vegeta and Bulma though, I love how Vegeta talks to Bulma with such familiarity during the Cell saga (i just wished... the time skips didn't happen so quickly because it would have been excellent for character development outside of battle with small everyday stuff and hijinks...), and it does feel like he recognizes Bulma's intelligence and respects that aspect of her, he calls her by her name (which after 3 years I would hope he does but last time we just hear him call her "woman" so it was nice to hear him call her by her name), but then when Bulma starts to spit toxicity towards him or starts to act like she has her ego through the roof (which funnily enough is very similar to Vegeta himself when he feels confident and with his ego higher than the sky), he just looks like he's thinking "well you just can't find the off button, do you" (lol, it reminds me of home).

It actually reminds me a little bit of how Bulma and Yamcha's relationship was, on and off of Bulma being angry and with Yamcha and re-conciliating again, just this time is with Vegeta, but in Yamcha's relationship he was the one that just got all the (maybe undeserved) anger from Bulma and he didn't really had the balls to confront her because he's Yamcha and he's a nice guy but he doesn't have spice (like he used to as a bandit), while on the other hand with Vegeta is a constant battle for power in the relationship. They both act mean with each other, and even if it's not actually meant to seriously cause harm they can get get hurt and often do simply by the nature of how they relate to each other and communicate, with insults, sarcasm, back handed comments, ironic remarks, double meaning, either is to twist the knife where it hurts or even to be playful and flirt in a friendly manner, is almost never straight forward and i really can't picture them, specially Vegeta, saying that they love each other directly and explicitly but they don't have to. That's just how they are, is their game, because neither of them is willing to back out, they are both asses, though Vegeta is the one that normally does back out in the end in favor of keeping peace because he is the one that has more to loose even if it's by convenience and to keep his access to Capsule Corp and all the commodities at this point, and because he respects and admires Bulma too, he does love her in his own saiyan way and doesn't want to loose that bond he's made with her as the only other person he managed to trust and be open with (the other being Goku). (this scene is priceless and i just wanted to put it here. Is filler but i just don't care, it officially exists and is part of the collective that is DB and is good).

Bulma was ok with Vegeta not being present in their lives and only focusing on her baby, encouraging little Trunks in small ways to start developing some strength. She's always been her own woman after all, independent, confident, intelligent all on her own, always being in the middle of the conflicts since time immemorial to be part of the team too against whatever is menacing Earth. While at the same time is clear that Bulma is proud that her baby is Vegeta's because is a symbol of their deeper connection (and love if you will at this point), aaaaand because of the potential he has as a fighter and the status he gives her among the ones that know who Vegeta is (bragging rights, lol), and also brag about his perfect very cool and handsome son's genes. She was like "yeah Yayirobe, drop the child if you want, but be ware that that child is Vegeta's". (I swear that sometimes I wonder if Vegeta is the one in an abusive relationship full of toxicity, lol, the answer is they both are but flawed as it was it's what they both needed and what worked for them). (and i love this bit where Trunks falls to the ground trying to learn to walk and Bulma looks at him like "i'm not gonna do anything about it, get up on your own". Some of Vegeta is rubbing off on her, hehe).

Trunks was an accident?

About the baby, in a way Bulma and Vegeta, ever since they decided to engage sexually, were aware of the possibility of a child being born from both of them but had already accepted whatever outcome destiny had in it's plans regarding a possible offspring (when before Vegeta was very clearly against it for the fear of having a child that could be stronger than him to usurp his title and place). And to that i want to add that Trunks wasn't really planned by Vegeta in particular (I'm more sure that Bulma might have desired a baby from him after a certain point because she always fantasized with Goku once she saw him all grown up but "lost her chance" as she puts it, and now Vegeta represented another chance to have a badass baby), but that doesn't mean Trunks wasn't expected like many people believe (that Trunks was an accident). Vegeta had agreed with the consequences long before he knew they were pregnant, so no, i don't believe he was an accident as if they didn't thought having a baby wasn't going to eventually happen simply because they were having sex and a baby is to be an expected high chance result, but neither planned exactly. He just naturally happened and that was ok.

They are fine (Trunks is not fine)

Like, both Vegeta and Bulma seem actually pretty ok with the whole thing of being kinda distant kinda separate and on their own at that point while still being together as an official couple. Vegeta concentrating on his own things and not letting anything get in his way, being very saiyan about not letting himself feel (because otherwise his obvious parental instincts when Trunks gets killed and him later accepting his love for Bulma wouldn't make much sense if he actually didn't ultimately cared). Bulma seems pretty ok with putting herself and her child in danger while knowing she still has a job to do to help save the Earth just like Vegeta was doing in a way. Like, during the saga they are actually both working together, Vegeta asking her info on Dr Gero and her looking into her investigation about him in her memory, him asking if she brought the armors he requested for the z fighters and Bulma actually did made them and brought them with her. They are actually working together when it comes to the war against the androds and Vegeta is 100% concentratd on that and his issues while Bulma is enduring and helping as well, growing up from the brat she was into someone more mature but both still with things they need to work on.

The only one that cannot comprehend the dynamic here is Future Trunks. No one else feels it out of place or out of logic because it's Vegeta and it's Bulma. But like, Future Trunks gives too much credit to Vegeta for putting his Baby Trunks self in danger when it's very much Bulma's fault in this particular case. But that is because F Trunks made some high assumptions and probably fantasized with who his father might have been and was hit with the reality that he was not the way he imagined him, so he's putting a lot of expectations on Vegeta that when not met he gets angry but Vegeta is just like "dude i don't have time for this bs". And on the other hand Trunks also didn't knew how his mother was before she had to grow into someone more careful and responsible, so he cannot see his mother's faults because his love for her is blinding him from her wrong doings. (funny thing is that when she had the plane accident no one went to save Bulma either, lol). He has to learn to know his parents because he doesn't know them. Poor Trunks though XD.

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Ultimately Vegeta changes his attitude during the end of the saga for the sake of both of them, and after having been smacked full force in the face with the realization that he did messed up in multiple ways during the saga after all, with the androids, with Cell, with Trunks too because of his cultural baggage. At the end he's much closer to Bulma and Baby Trunks, having accepted his role as father, not only the type of father Vegeta wanted to be but the father Trunks needed him to be, which still had a lot of room for improvement but it was a start, and he did changed quite a lot. Even caving in with some earthling behaviors for the better. Unnggh! is so beautiful!

[textfromthelookout]

if you have the time, I wanna know what makes vegeta so compelling to you, whole ass character arc stuff and what not. I wanna hear you go off on your short king.

Anon do you understand what you’ve unleashed? I don’t think you understand what you’ve unleashed. Or if you do understand, I can almost guarantee you aren’t prepared. This is almost 3000 words of me frothing at the mouth. I hope you know you asked for this. Like the reason I was so late answering was because I wanted to do it justice and could not figure out what I wanted to yell about first.

I guess to understand why Vegeta’s development is so fucking staggering to me, you have to understand who he starts as when you meet him.

Vegeta is around 4 or 5 when Freeza destroys Vegetasei. He’s roughly 30 when he comes to Earth for immortality. In between are two and a half decades of being taken from, which he suffers only because he believes wholeheartedly that he will grow strong enough to kill Freeza and take it all back from him. He lands on Earth with little to his name beyond his pride in who and what he is, and power that, while paltry compared to Freeza and the people in his inner circle, surpassed and still surpasses every member of his race.

Right?

One of the biggest things about Vegeta in Z is that there is A Way Things Are Supposed To Go and when they go any other way, he cannot let it go. Losing to anybody other than the people he has known for years can kill him is unacceptable. Even more so if it’s to another Saiyan. Even more so when this Saiyan is such a disgrace to the blood in his veins. The loss is an impossibility and has to be rectified. Vegeta limps off of Earth with two big driving forces now: kill Freeza for vengeance, kill Kakarot to mend his pride (or at least beat him so far into the ground that his superiority is unquestionable).

Namek is where Vegeta gets really interesting. He’s fresh off a stinging defeat that put a couple cracks into his sense of certainty and self. He knows a way to get what he wants (the Dragon Balls on Namek). He’s in a race against the powers that be for it. He has something of an ace in the hole in that he worked out how to sense ki while he was flying half dead through space, so he’s no longer forced to rely on a scouter—on Freeza’s technology. He intends to make a clean break, and for a while it goes according to plan. Zarbon’s a stumbling block, but he makes it work in his favor, takes all the Dragon Balls Freeza collected and escapes with his life to boot.

And then another repeating theme surrounding Vegeta in Z comes into play. He’ll be a hairsbreadth from getting everything he wants before it all comes crashing down around him, largely due to things entirely outside his control. He couldn’t have used the Dragon Balls even if he had decided to press Gohan on what he was doing in the middle of nowhere with a ‘watch’, because he doesn’t have a password. The Ginyu Force thrashes him, Goku shows up stronger than ever. It’s fine though, because now he knows how to get the Dragon Balls to work, so he’ll never suffer defeat again—it’s a moot point.

…Right?

I think that the point in the story where Vegeta well and truly starts to come unraveled as a person is pretty immediately after Porunga dies and Freeza starts cycling through his transformations. Because like, rudimentary or no, Vegeta’s ki-sensing ability still works. He’s suddenly faced with irrefutable proof, that he can feel in the entire essence of his being, that his power is nothing to Freeza. And he lies to himself, because he can’t accept that he’s outclassed by the magnitude he is. Because this isn’t The Way Things Are Supposed To Go. He’s supposed to avenge his people and embody the legend. He refuses to bend, and so, he breaks.

And it’s sad, y’know? The way he just… stops fighting. For his whole life, he sweats and bleeds and swallows his bruised pride for the sake of survival and hope and what does it get him? I think all the goddamn time about the anime’s interpretation of this, where Vegeta being broken for Piccolo/Gohan/Krillin to witness up close is a deliberate choice on Freeza’s part*. In fact, I may never stop thinking about it. It’s not enough that Vegeta loses his will to fight, he has to know that others know that he gave up, that he can’t do anything against this monster even if he hadn’t. It’s a stunningly cruel blow precisely because he’s so proud and strong.

The man who dies on Namek crying at the feet of both of his bitterest enemies, begging one of them to kill the other for the sake of their race—who in that final moment lets his helpless frustration, his grief, his pride in his people supersede his own personal pride as warrior and prince—is not the same man who fought Goku on Earth. That man is in pieces, and Vegeta will spend every moment for years afterward trying to put him back together with saltwater and desperation. We meme on how death means basically nothing in Dragon Ball, but I go nuts thinking about how, intentionally or not, Toriyama managed to twist that to work with Vegeta’s development.

Because now Vegeta has to reckon with his many abject failures for longer than the few minutes before sweet oblivion, you see. Now it all matters again. As long as he’s alive, he’s still being taken from.

(Bulma’s one of the few—if not the only—person to simply give him something without coercion, or prompting, or obligation. Certainly the first we see. She had every reason to tell him to fuck off, really. She didn’t have to offer him a place to stay.)

Vegeta has a transitive hierarchical logic on strength, which comes up again towards the end of Cell that I’ll touch on when we get there, but for now it will suffice to say that in order to keep moving forward, he has to readjust his purpose in life to focus solely on beating Goku. If he beats Goku, then he beats Freeza, since Goku beat Freeza. Step one, obviously, is attaining Super Saiyan. And he’s so fucking committed to that that he unwittingly locks himself out of it, up until he leaves partway through the three year gap before the androids.

I could write another entire essay on how Super Saiyan can be read as a trauma response and how it differs between all the Saiyans in Cell saga (and especially about Goku on Namek), but this is surely already more than you bargained for when you opened this can of worms, so, Vegeta. When I think of Vegeta’s awakening to Super Saiyan, I tend to default to the original dub’s take (ep129), because it has lived in my head rent free since I saw it and it will not give me peace.

Take this part of my rambling with a grain of salt, I know I’m about to get a little ‘it’s not that deep’ about it, but. Here’s my interpretation of this. Vegeta only attains Super Saiyan once he has done away with distractions—not entirely because now he can focus on nothing but his training, but because he’s inadvertently given himself space to even begin to process all the shit from the last 25 years of his life, even if he fights it every step of the way as weakness. All the self-hatred, yes, but also the aforementioned frustration, the grief, the anger. The helplessness. ‘I didn’t care if I lived. I didn’t care about anything.’

Ultimately the trigger to Super Saiyan is a single moment of all-consuming emotion, so whichever thread of canon you personally subscribe to, the facts are that something happened in Vegeta out there in the middle of nowhere space. And he returns to Earth riding high. I’m not gonna lie, he’s rocking some seriously manic energy when he shows up to waste Android 19, and honestly why wouldn’t he be? He’s latched onto this new power and he doesn’t have to feel anything else. Things are finally going right. He’s invincible. He’s the king again. This is The Way Things Are Supposed To Go.

…

…right?

Super Saiyan is supposed to be a solution for Vegeta, and instead it eventually turns itself into a problem during Cell and the androids. To be fair, he can’t misestimate the strength of an opponent he can’t sense in the first place, but even so, he’s so blinded by the euphoria of succeeding for once in his goddamn life that he can’t imagine that anything can be stronger than him. Androids 17 and 18 are a rude fucking awakening. They are the ultimate pulling-the-rug-out-from-under-you vibe check. All those pieces that he struggled so hard to put back together, kicked apart again without thought or effort. He has a bit of a crisis over it, understandably.

In the interest of brevity, I’m glossing over the intermediary parts between Vegeta coming out of the time chamber (wish we had more info on what transpired in there, personally) and the tail end of the Cell saga, because it’s something of a repeat of what he did with Freeza, except he’s using Goku’s ‘let Freeza power up to 100% to hammer home his superiority’ logic. I made a previous post on my main blog about the post-Cell part of Vegeta’s character arc, which I’ll copy down here with some minor revisions:

The hell of Vegeta swearing to never fight again is that he actually follows through, at least in the beginning.

There are seven years between Cell and Buu. In every version of the media I’ve gone through—English manga, uncut dub, uncut JP, Kai dub—Bulma says that Vegeta has trained the last five years before the tournament. Which can only mean that there was a two year gap right after the Cell Games where he didn’t train at all.

And like. Can you really blame him. His purpose in life has been cut out from under him not once but twice, first by Goku attaining Super Saiyan and avenging their people by killing Freeza, and then by Goku’s decision to stay dead and deny him the opportunity to surpass him. His strength has proven insufficient time and again no matter how hard he works, overshadowed by that of a boy half his age, who doesn’t even like to fight. His pride hinges on both of those things and even before that was mercilessly trampled on. He has no people. No planet. No purpose, power, or pride.

I really do think the only things keeping him going by this point are inertia and spite. Almost without doubt, this is the absolute nadir of Vegeta’s existence: at least, the nadir for the man he thinks he has to be, or can’t reconcile not being. If he has nothing, if the last things tethering him to his supposed innate nature (to borrow a line from this fic, shameless plug,) are torn away from him, what is left for him to do but accept defeat and submit to change?

What he doesn’t know yet is that that’s okay. He doesn’t know yet, but the seven years that Goku is no longer a presence in his life is perhaps the best thing Goku could have possibly given him. Without Goku physically there to be actionable on (for lack of a better phrase), new things can grow in the spaces where his animosity and aggression burned holes in him. Even if Vegeta is still nursing the embers of that blaze and ignoring the encroaching growth as hard as he can, he is still beginning to care about things that the old him wouldn’t. (coming back to Vegeta’s logic on strength: to Vegeta, Gohan’s victory over Cell is also Goku’s victory, and Trunks’ loss is his own loss. Bulma mentions to Gohan that he’s dead set on making Trunks stronger than him, and why would Vegeta care about that goal specifically unless Trunks’ victory over Gohan is also Vegeta’s victory over Goku?)

And then.

And then all of a sudden, Goku is back in the picture. And when he comes back, so does the Vegeta from before, like a relapse.

Because as much growing as does, he still has seven years to gnaw on the same question he has been for ages now. Why is Goku so much stronger than he is, being what he is? Why is he so inadequate? There is now a window, fleeting as it may be, for Vegeta to get some answers he had no reason to assume he’d ever get. There is now the terrible possibility that he can make things go The Way They Are Supposed To Go. And Goku’s willing to let him take that shot and get those answers, right up until the whole business surrounding Buu disrupts everything and then he isn’t anymore.

Because the thing is, they were scheduled to fight each other before anybody else. Vegeta was not supposed to see the gap between himself and Goku until he was experiencing it firsthand. Picture for a minute the timeline in which the tournament plays out normally. Goku and Vegeta fight, Goku wins, and then Vegeta’s only recourse is to demand answers from Goku—who would surely give them, to the best of his ability!—or to come to his own conclusions and act from there. Either he makes peace with affairs, uneasy as it may be, or he blows up immediately, and Goku is there to stop him before he gets too out of hand. Instead, what happens is that he’s given the opportunity to realize that he’s still inferior, he still doesn’t understand why, and most importantly, that there’s a third option open to him. At the cost of his will, there is a way.

Submitting to Babidi to force Goku’s hand and close the gap is the act of a man who knows that he is running out of time. Whatever pride Vegeta still has would not possibly have allowed this unless he was so desperate for closure that he couldn’t see another way. For ten years he’s been trying to rebuild a sandcastle below the high tide line, and it’s not that he’s too stupid to move farther up so he isn’t freshly shattered at every pass—it’s just that trying to power through in the face of futility is literally all that he knows to do. He has been coming apart stitch by stitch ever since he met Goku, his worldview and his preconceptions of destiny and self dissolving in slow motion under his feet. Goku will only be here for a day. This is the last chance he has, and he knows it. He knows he’s not going to see Goku in the afterlife, even before he asks Piccolo.

What the fuck else was he supposed to do?

The music in the background of this scene is ‘Trapped Between Past and Present’ and if that doesn’t sum up the backbone of Vegeta’s arc in Z, then there’s nothing that does.

The beauty of his sacrifice is that he still has the mark of evil on his forehead when he dies, even though he’s bucked Babidi’s mind control by that point. He chooses the present. He chooses to symbolically and very literally raze his old self to the ground for the sake of all that his new self cares for. That is why the impermanence of death in Dragon Ball works for him. That’s why I go insane over the Majin arc specifically. New growth roots in ashes, phoenixes and sapling trees both.

Super (and end of Z) is where you get to luxuriate in that growth and watch it pay off, and oh my god does it ever pay off. Without going deep into spoiler territory (formally begging all of you to read the manga here), the later arcs begin to address Vegeta reckoning with his personal sins against the Namekians, and those of his race, who destroyed countless worlds under Freeza. Vegeta and Beerus have a conversation in chapter 69 of Super where things I’ve described in this here essay are worded explicitly into the canon. I think of it to this day. I think of all of the things Vegeta does in Super and I think it’s incredible just how far he’s come.

Before creation comes destruction.

Alright that’s enough pretentious meta. Here’s Vegeta being very happy about a well-earned victory. Isn’t he so fuckin’ cute.

*ep85, or 41 if you prefer Kai

[elisajdb]

First Kiss

“Dad, when did you know Mom was the one?”

It was very rare for Gohan to approach Goku on a serious matter. Fighting to save the world, Gohan came to him. Matters of the heart, Gohan always went to Chi-Chi. She was the expert on the matter. She helped Gohan talk to Videl and point out signals sent by Videl that went over his head. She gave him suggestions for dates. She told him how a gentleman behaved.

Goku never expected Gohan to come to him but given the subject, he was the only one who could answer Gohan’s question. “Why?” The simple question brought a blush to Gohan’s face. “Does it have something to do with Videl?” Goku wanted to help Gohan with anything he needed but not being an expert on romance or women, he didn’t think he could help Gohan. “I wanna help ya, but Mom…”

“No, Dad.” Gohan stopped Goku from saying anymore. “I need you. Mom can’t help me with this.”

Goku could tell Gohan was struggling. He spoke firmly but looked nervous and unsure. If he knew Chi-Chi would give him the answer he needed, Gohan would go to her but as he looked at his eldest son, Goku realized this was one of those father and son things Chi-Chi told him he would have with Gohan but Goku still had doubts because he wasn’t the typical father.

He didn’t have first dates or jitters around girls like Gohan. He didn’t struggle with making friends or fitting in like Gohan. Gohan’s physical development into his teens occurred without him. Those first experiences when a boy needed his father as a guide happened when he was dead.

Goku regretted that when he returned. It moved him now to be there for Gohan and give him the answer he needed but he wasn’t sure if he could. “My experiences aren’t the same as you, Gohan. I married Chi-Chi not long after I was reminded of our promise.”

“I know but you never do what you don’t want, Dad, and if in any way you felt marrying Mom was wrong, you wouldn’t have done it.”

That was true. Goku always followed his instincts. Even if he made the promise, Goku would’ve gotten out of it if he wanted. He didn’t because he didn’t want to marry Chi-Chi. “Yeah. I knew Chi-Chi was the one when we had our first kiss.”

****

Kissing was a new experience for Goku but not foreign to his mind. He saw his first kiss on a TV program Master Roshi watched. He didn’t understand and asked his teacher why two adults touched that way.

Something you will enjoy when you’re older.

That’s all his teacher said so Goku ignored the concept of kissing. He read it in his books during his daily lessons but Goku didn’t focus and thought of it as words on a page and read it to get through his lessons for the day.

His second introduction to kissing came on a whim. It was during his training for the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai. The world was his training ground. Goku arrived in a village during a holiday. He didn’t know why people were celebrating but they looked happy and enjoyed being around each other. Though he didn’t mind being alone, loneliness crept into Goku sometimes, and when it did, he desired to be around others.

Maybe that’s why I latched onto them.

Them were Silas and Celia. Goku met Silas in the forest outside the village when he hunted for his dinner. Silas didn’t think it was right for a boy to hunt his food and invited Goku into his home with his wife, Celia. Goku was initially wary of Celia. The only other adult women he had been around were Bulma and Lunch. He liked them but sometimes they were loud and volatile, especially Lunch. Every other day he dodged bullets from her. He expected the same attitude from Celia but she was kind and doting to Goku and Silas.

Silas and Celia were different from the couples he read about in books and the ones he watched on TV except for one factor. They all kissed. When he initially read about kissing, Goku didn’t care. He wasn’t interested. He still wasn’t but three years older and seeing more of it from Silas and Celia, curiosity sparked in Goku.

One morning, Goku left with Silas to gather firewood. Silas kissed Celia goodbye. It sparked Goku to ask, “Why do you do that?”

“Do what, Goku?”

“Touch Celia’s lips like that.”

“You mean kiss? It’s something couples do. It can be a hello or goodbye. It’s a way to say ‘I love you’ or ‘I miss you.’ It has different meanings, Goku, and when you meet someone you want to kiss like I have in my Celia, you’ll understand and  you’ll have fun with it, too.”

Goku didn’t understand what could be fun with kissing. It wasn’t eating. It wasn’t fighting a strong opponent. He didn’t dwell on it; didn’t wonder who he will kiss. He forgot about it until three years later when Chi-Chi, daughter of the great Ox King Gyumao pressed her lips to his cheeks at the Tenkaichi Budokai.

And turned his life upside down.

From the moment she tapped his shoulder, Goku was entranced with her. He stared with his friends curious of the girl who addressed him. His not knowing her, angered her. Goku angered many people and always brushed it off but this time, it intrigued him. Why was she mad at him? Who was she? He knew they crossed paths but he didn’t know when or where. He watched her matches. He could beat her but he was impressed with her skills. He was excited when they were paired against each other. He was even more excited when their match began. He blocked and dodged every attack from her. She kept up with him as he ran around the ring. When he leapt in the air for a breather, she followed. It excited him! He could beat her but his blood pounded in his veins as if she were a strong opponent. Mentally, she stimulated him. Physically, she kept him on her toes. He didn’t want to fight her. He wanted to know who she was. She gave him the chance when offering her name if he beat her.

Creating air with a punch, Goku knocked her out of the ring. In his excitement, he put too much into it but he got her name.

Chi-Chi, daughter of Gyumao, the Ox King.

Ah, he remembered. She pulled his tail when they were children. She flew with him on Nimbus. Strange girl but she had a pure heart like him. When she reminded him of his promise to marry her, Goku honored his word. Oh, he could’ve gotten out of it and say he didn’t know, he didn’t understand but he didn’t. If marriage meant living with someone, he didn’t mind living with Chi-Chi. She could ride Nimbus. That meant she was a good person. Her feistiness excited him. That meant life will be fun with her but Chi-Chi waiting for him intrigued him the most.

They didn’t know each other long but in that short time as children, Chi-Chi knew she wanted to live with him for the rest of her life. Goku hadn’t met anyone to accept him like that since his Grandpa.

It was easy to honor his promise.

When he did, Chi-Chi told him she loved him. It was a word he heard but didn’t understand. Chi-Chi showed him what love means by pressing her lips to his cheek.

A kiss.

Something you will enjoy when you’re older.

It has different meanings, Goku, and when you meet someone you want to kiss like I have in my Celia, you’ll understand and you’ll have fun with it, too.

Chi-Chi’s lips were soft and warm against his skin. It was brief but the warmth lingered and spread across his face and down to his stomach. What was that feeling? Was this what Master Roshi and Silas meant?

His impending fights drove Goku from getting his questions answered but Chi-Chi’s lips on his cheek lingered and affected Goku through his matches.

His speed tornado was an unusual flex for him. He only needed to remove his weights and stretch but with Chi-Chi watching, Goku had a desire to impress his bride. He punched and kicked the air as if fighting an imaginary opponent to show off his martial arts skills. He ran around the ring with speed faster than human eyes and became a human tornado. The crowd was wowed. Chi-Chi, he saw from the corner of his eyes, smiled with her hands clapped together in awe.

He knew she liked that.

Goku wanted to impress again with Piccolo. He showed off some, feigning injury when he wasn’t hurt to show Piccolo wasn’t a threat to him. He unleashed his Super Kamehameha Wave to show the power he consumed. Piccolo almost had him at one point, but he prevailed as the victor and Chi-Chi was all over him. Goku thought he would get another kiss but Chi-Chi hugged him. Hugs weren’t foreign but the way Chi-Chi pressed her body against his, that unusual feeling returned. His body felt funny with Chi-Chi’s bumps pressing on him. It was stronger than the feeling of a kiss he panicked and told Chi-Chi to not hold him like this in front of everyone.

She honored his word until they were alone that night.

On the balcony of Gyumao’s castle. Preparations were underway for Goku and Chi-Chi’s wedding. It was a whirlwind of activities of Chi-Chi introducing Goku to her father again; getting her mother’s wedding dress cleaned, getting Goku fitted for a suit and dancing lessons. Hours after Goku was declared the Strongest Under the Heavens, under twinkling stars on a warm Spring night Goku found solace on the balcony of his room. He looked down at the courtyard where he spotted many servants working on decorations for his wedding.

It was a lot for Goku to see people he didn’t know decorating the courtyard, decorating the castle, fitting him for a suit and working on a wedding menu. He agreed to live with Chi-Chi forever but he didn’t understand the need for a party or ceremony where had to dress up. He gave his word. He came back to honor it. Why isn’t that enough? He didn’t understand why so much work was going into something for him and Chi-Chi. Goku didn’t think he deserved all of this. Maybe Chi-Chi. Her Pops was famous and she grew up in this kingdom but he wasn’t anyone special.

Goku thought of his friends telling him he should back out of the wedding until he is sure he knows what he is doing.

“Too late for that now,” Goku thought. He wasn’t going to back out. He wanted to marry Chi-Chi but with all the preparations, Goku did wonder if knew what he was doing.

“Goku?” Goku turned to see Chi-Chi coming into the room. “Sorry. I knocked but you didn’t answer. It’s a big room,” she said sheepishly as she came onto the balcony. “Kind of hard to hear a knock.” She stood by him and looked where he looked; servants building a pavilion. “They’re working fast.” She didn’t sound as happy and excited as she was earlier. Chi-Chi spoke subdued and nervous. Shouldn’t she be happy? This is what she wanted.  “Is it weird I’m nervous about the wedding?”

Nervous? Goku thought only he should be. “You reminded me of our promise. Why are you nervous?”

Chi-Chi shrugged. “I don’t know.  It’s something I wanted and now it’s finally here, I’m scared. In a few days, I won’t be Gyumao’s daughter. I’ll be Son Goku’s wife. It’s a big responsibility.”

“It is?” Goku wished someone told him that.

“Being a wife and mother is a huge responsibility, Goku. It’s my duty to care for you, and love you and our children. I hope I can be successful at that. I didn’t grow up with a mother so I’m going at this blind.”

“What about me?” Goku felt more in the dark than Chi-Chi. “Do I have any responsibilities?”

“You’re already good at that, Goku. A husband protects. You’re strong and saved everyone from Piccolo. I know you’ll protect me and our children. A husband provides. You are already on a good start winning the money at the tournament.” Chi-Chi looked away from him frustrated. “I have to prove myself. I have to cook good food that you and our children will love. I have to make sure our family grows up in a healthy and happy home.”

“Sounds like a lot to deal with.” But Goku saw the bright spot that Chi-Chi didn’t. “You knowing all of this makes me think you’ll be a good wife and mother. I don’t know anything.” I’m trusting you he wanted to say but didn’t.

“Knowing doesn’t mean I’ll be good at it.”

“You told me you don’t know a lot about kissing but I think you’re at it.”

Chi-Chi looked back at him. It wasn’t possible but Goku thought Chi-Chi’s eyes sparkled. “You think I’m a good kisser?”

“Well….” The sweet gaze sent from Chi-Chi tied his tongue. Suddenly, he felt hot and nervous but he told the truth. “It was good to me but it was only on the cheek.”

“You…..” Chi-Chi sounded breathless yet hopeful, “wanna try a kiss on the lips?”  

The tightness in his chest returned. It was a funny feeling but he liked it. “You said we have to at the wedding. We should practice.”

“Practice.” Chi-Chi smiled at him but it wasn’t like the smiles she gave him today. This one was sly, playful as if knowing he didn’t want to kiss to practice for the wedding. “Okay, Goku, we can practice.”

It wasn’t the promise of the kiss but Chi-Chi seeing through him that stood out. She was special. She didn’t know him as long as his friends knew him but easily saw through his innocent façade. She saw what his friends couldn’t see.

He smiled. His friends’ worries melted from his mind.  I don’t know anything about marriage or my duties but I know I am doing it with the right person.

Goku let Chi-Chi guide him with her soft hands touching his face. She gently pulled him down as she stood on her toes to touch her lips to hers. The sensation against his lips was similar to what he felt on his cheek but more pleasurable, pleasant and sanctifying Chi-Chi was indeed the one.

[vanderdyks]

We dont talk enough about the fact that Goku wasnt born strong. Gohan, Vegeta, Broly, Goten, Trunks... all born with innate strength. But Goku... Goku was weak. His entire life growing up, there was ALWAYS someone stronger than him.

For a saiyan to be outmatched by earthlings... ridiculous. But he was. Several times over. Every bit of strength Goku has, he had to work for, train relentlessly for. Its easy to forget because hes so strong now and continiously comes out ahead. But thats the POINT.

Vegeta grew up knowing he was the pride of the saiyan race, born strong, elite, a prodigy. He was hopelessly outmatched by frieza and some of his army, but for a saiyan, vegeta was the strongest (or so he believed).

Because the saiyans put so much belief into power you were born with, power you were destined to have. You either had strength or you didnt. And Goku didnt. So he was third class. His destiny wasnt power, it was weakness.

Its why Vegeta is so constantly thrown off by and therefore obsessed with Goku in the beginning. Because how could someone born so weak be THIS strong? It didnt make sense.

Then we have Gohan, born with incredible hidden reserves of power. Unlike Goku, Gohan was born with potential. His strength was always there. And sure, he had to work incredibly hard to unlock it but its a story arc we keep seeing repeated with gohan. Either its unlocked with anger or someone unlocks it for him (the grand elder, old kai, etc.)

And then Goten and Trunks, both super saiyan by the age of 7. Power came EASY to them. It was as natural as breathing. Goku, Vegeta, and even Gohan all struggled to reach super saiyan. It took a toll. But Trunks and Goten take that power from literal legend and make it a game.

No one has ever had to work as hard as Goku to achieve strength. And you can argue with me on this all day long if you want to. He didnt have hidden powers. There were no hidden reserves, no one to unlock his innate abilities. When he was a child, his unnatural strength compared to human made him special. But for a saiyan, goku was one of the lowest of their race.

Every bit of strength, every morsel of power in gokus body, was built through training. He didnt unlock hidden potentials, HE CREATED them. Its why Goku is the mortal who figures out how to unlock ultra instinct. Because he almost never won a battle purely based off a sheer power, no. Goku had to be smart, needed to be clever. He was forced to hone technique just as much as power, was taught by all his masters the importance of harnessing his mind as well as his body. He grew up meditating, sensing energy, learning not to rely on his eyes, but all his senses. He was training to filter out his own extra unnecessary movements all the way back when he first met Korin and then later again with Kami.

Goku lost fights a lot. All the time. But everytime he lost, he learned. Because he was forced too. Because when Goku lost, there was no backup. He was it. And so he would HAVE to come back stronger, have to find the way to win. Or everyone would be dead.

Maybe its just me but i just think theres something incredibly special about a saiyan labeled as "weak," a saiyan no one bothered to pay any mind to being the first to become legend. He avenged their entire race. That little boy with a tail, born with a power level of 2, became the strongest of them all.

[colorsofinquiry]

I had to put this thought down, because it was important to put it on Goku and Gohan.

In the fight against Cell, Goku was chastised by Piccolo on not picking up that Gohan is reluctant to fight. I have an opinion on why he could not do so.

In the Saiyan Saga, Piccolo got to see Gohan's fear on the whole situation despite training him to take on Nappa and Vegeta. That instance definitely stuck with him. By the time Goku arrived, he got to see that Gohan was involved in the fight and he had gotten stronger. It doesn't feel like he got to know Gohan's fear. Plus, Gohan did go back to the battle after Vegeta transformed of his own free will.

In the Namek and Frieza Saga, this continues. Gohan demonstrates that he can fight, but he fought because there was no choice. Goku again shows up when Gohan had already entered the fight. So, its not wrong to assume for Goku that Gohan does share his fighting interest. This is why I think he has a shocked reaction when Piccolo calls him out. He didn't get to see Gohan's fear and he was seeing it for the first time. Its also why I feel he wanted to stay dead, so that Gohan is never put in a situation like Cell again. This is a thought I had, you can disagree with it.

[tobiasdrake]

My favourite thing about the Dragon Balls making death less permanent is that, in spite of taking away some impact, it gives us one of the best parts of the show.

Vegeta.

Narratively, he should have died on Namek. He has stalled for long enough, he is able to see the Legend come true (in his eyes), he knows Frieza will die, his ideology and strength have been surpassed by Goku and he no longer has much to offer.

And that's why bringing him back after his death is insane, because Vegeta has had his big sacrifice play and seen his past concluded... and yet he has to keep living. He's quick to jump to anger at Kakarot, but for a while there he is surely lost on what to do.

Frieza is dead. Nappa and Raditz are dead. The Super Saiyan has been born, his people have been avenged, he doesn't even have a need for a wish anymore.

What does he have left? Both as a character and a person, all he can offer now is rage. And so, that exactly what he does, because for a time its all he can do.

What he has left is himself, which has always been his motivating factor. He never really cared much about avenging his people, about Nappa and Raditz, or about the Super Saiyan. For Vegeta, it's always been about glorifying Vegeta.

We first started to get a glimpse of the kind of man Vegeta is when he and Nappa briefly discuss Raditz's death. Nappa wants to resurrect Raditz using the Dragon Balls but Vegeta thinks Raditz can go fuck himself.

Shortly after, they have a brief discussion about Gohan. Gohan's existence intrigues Nappa. He wants to start some sort of twisted Saiyan eugenics program to repopulate their race with Saiyans who are stronger than ever before.

Vegeta sees hybrid Saiyans as a threat to his personal glory, however, and wants to kill all humans instead.

Vegeta would rather the Saiyans go extinct than allow new Saiyans to come into existence that are stronger than him. This sets the stage for his relationship to his people's genocide.

Which he actively contributes to.

Going a step beyond refusing to revive Raditz 'cause "Fuck 'im", Vegeta kills Nappa himself.

Goku breaks Nappa's back so he can't fight anymore, which causes his existence to lose all value in Vegeta's eyes. So Vegeta personally disposes of the last remaining Saiyan besides him and the two Earthlings.

If Saiyans cannot advance Vegeta's ambitions, then what good are they?

From there, Vegeta goes to Namek and learns of the Saiyan genocide. His reaction is about what you'd expect from him up to this point.

He has no interest in revenge against Frieza for the Saiyans. He just wants to be out from under Frieza's bootheel. Vegeta's greatest ambition is to be the strongest in the universe.

Also, fun fact: He's heard of the Super Saiyan but never put any stock in this Saiyan gobbledygook. He only starts to consider the possibility once he sees Goku in his incomplete proto-Super Saiyan state.

"The Super Saiyan is fake but if it does exist THEN IT SHOULD BE ME."

Literally the first time he ever expresses any sentiment towards his fellow Saiyans is when he is actively in the process of joining them in death.

That Vegeta is dying and no longer has a future to think of seems to have done a number on his personality. This is the first time he ever even hints at caring for someone other than himself.

The thing about Vegeta is that he was very young when his planet was destroyed. In a sense, Vegeta and Goku are mirrors of one another. Neither of them are culturally Saiyans. Neither ever truly knew Planet Vegeta and its people.

They're a post-genocide diaspora, raised in other cultures by other people. Goku grew up to be culturally Earthling. And Vegeta... is culturally Frieza. He was raised in the grips of coldhearted capitalism, self-glorification, and the devaluing of people, places, and things into disposable commodities for market, and he internalized all of it.

The reason Vegeta is so different from Nappa and Raditz, so much crueler and more self-interested, is because - like Goku - Vegeta has never truly connected with his Saiyan heritage. How could he? His culture was annihilated.

Capable of reflexively dismissing his people's genocide with "LOL Fuck 'em" in the moment but then, with the honest vulnerability of impending death, admit "No, that sucks actually."

Vegeta spends the back half of the Namek arc forced into an uneasy alliance that's tearing him in half over who he is.

"You dumbass, if you had time to save me then you had time to let me die and sucker punch the enemy!" Vegeta barks at Gohan.

Meanwhile, Vegeta.

And that's after Gohan and Krillin betrayed him, too. Exposure to the Earthlings and their different ideas is getting to him. The way Gohan and Krillin treat him and each other is... it's not so much healing as deprogramming some of the things he learned from Frieza.

He's being exposed to a way of life that's different from the one he's always known, and it's affecting the way his mind interprets things like teamwork or the death of his people. The way he thinks and expresses himself.

People are complicated and much of who we are is a product of environmental factors. Change Vegeta's circumstances and you change Vegeta.

So in his final moments, killed by the same person that killed the rest of his kind, he allows himself to feel the grief that he'd previously written off as "LOL Sucks to be them!"

Pretty much the entire rest of his arc is the steady deprogramming of Vegeta, once he's stranded on Earth with no way back into space, disconnected from the toxic ideology that raised him. Having to first figure out how to take his value system he learned from Frieza and apply it to his new circumstances.

But, over time, becoming more and more of an Earthling in his own right. Learning that it's okay, actually, to care about other people. To be emotionally invested in someone besides himself.

That it's okay to live a domestic life on a planet somewhere and be part of a culture, rather than simply defining himself as a conqueror.

That it's okay to not be the strongest in the universe. That he is not a failure if he finds a mountain he cannot climb.

Even finding religion. He uses his final moments before his second death to turn to (ex-)God and ask the fate of his immortal soul.

Vegeta is a diasporic member of a dead race raised in the image of the people that destroyed his home, killed his people, and robbed him of his culture. Slowly unlearning the belief systems of colonization, consumption, and capitalist individualism that defined so much of his life, and instead discovering the beauty of people and life.