#Goku thinks Gohan is dead

[t4tadrienette]

Goku definitely wanted to train Gohan for fun, just like Grandpa Gohan did with him, but then he wanted to respect Chichi's desire of him not becoming a fighter. He also spent 4 years of Gohan's life together and living peacefully.

But then he died, and when he came back, he found that Gohan was turned into a fighter by Piccolo, fair, I guess. He didn't see him fight, tho, he doesn't know the story behind him becoming a fighter, just that he was trained by Piccolo.

Then Gohan wants to go to Namek to find the dragon balls because he has to make sure their dead friends come back, and Goku goes wow that sounds like me, he also can't stand to stay on the side when it comes to these things.

Weeks pass, and now he's finally able to reach them on Namek. They have to fight, of course. Things happen. He's the only chance they have to defeat Freezer. Things fall apart now, Goku becomes Super Saiyan and tells Gohan to take Piccolo and get away. Goku is stuck alone on Namek. He saves himself by pure luck. He decides to stay where he is, to learn something new, to be able to also control his Super Saiyan state.

A year passes, and he comes back to earth. News from the future, saying that in 3 years, there's gonna be a new threat. They have to train, Gohan wants to train with him and Piccolo to fight this new threat. The three years have passed, and now there's another threat outside of the androids. Goku finally healed, he gets Gohan and tells him they're gonna train to defeat Cell. Gohan accepts to train with him. Gohan puts his all into that training, and Goku finds out Gohan has so many capabilities than what he shows. That's good! They have a chance at defeating Cell, maybe.

They finish their training, Goku wants Gohan to spend as much time with Chichi, and he wants to spend the remaining days before the Cell games as a family, you never know. The Cell games start, and Goku goes first to study him, to see how strong he is and if Gohan might have a chance. Oh, Gohan definitely has a chance. Come on, Gohan, now is your turn, I can tell you know you're stronger. Gohan is having difficulties, tho, Goku says it's just a matter of time before his fighting instict and anger sets in. But Gohan doesn't like fighting. That knowledge comes to Goku as a shock. He always assumed Gohan was fighting for the safety of the earth and for the love of fighting as well. At the end of the day, how could he think different, he never truly saw Gohan fighting, and at the end of the day, he was just picking up what Piccolo started in the first place. He never truly showed a disliking for fighting, or at least he never told him. He didn't know how in his first fighting against the Saiyans, he was petrified by fear. He wasn't there for the love of fighting, but because he had to, since he had this power.

Goku realises he miscalculated this. He immediately tells Krillin to pass him a bean so that he can get back into shape to go help him. Of course, Cell stops him before that. After Cell started to attack the others, finally Gohan snapped and unleashed his power, Goku was right after all. Gohan was definitely more powerful than him. He was the right warrior to defeat him. Gohan needs to defeat him once and for all, tho, but he doesn't. He says he has to have a slow and painful death. Those are some shocking words coming from Gohan. It doesn't sound like him. Well, now that has brought some problem, Cell is now about to explode and take all the earth with him. Now Goku has to make a decision. He will sacrifice himself. At the end of the day, he was the one to put Gohan in that position in the first place. It's only fair for him to do that. But, his sacrifice is useless, Cell comes back. Gohan tries his hardest, but his arm is broken. How can he defeat him now. But Goku is there to help him find the strenght and the others too. In the end, Gohan finds the strength to finally beat him.

It's time to revive people. There's still the problem of Goku not being able to be resurrected a second time. They think hey maybe we can use the dragon balls from Namek. But Goku stops them. He thinks that Bulma was right. He only attracts threats that put the earth in jeopardy, Piccolo, the Saiyans, the androids, and Cell. Maybe if he stays dead, they will stop coming. Like that, he will not put Gohan in danger anymore, Gohan will not have to fight anymore. So at the end of the day, it's better for him to stay away, rather than him staying with them, after all he was the one to put Gohan in that situation in the first place. In the end, he makes the selfless choice for Gohan. Maybe it's better for him not to have a father, but being safe, than having a father and being put into danger. At least, that's what he thinks is the right thing to do

[shannonsketches]

something something foils moving in opposite directions Goku's always happy to seek and fight stronger opponents because he spent most of his life being the strongest guy in the room and Vegeta wants to be the strongest/is always exhausted to find stronger opponents because he spent most of his life having to navigate his survival around the whims of the strongest guy in the universe room and so Goku has a foundation of safety and stability and so spends his time craving challenge and adventure and Vegeta has a foundation of challenge and adventure and spends his time craving safety and stability and the overlaid section of their venn diagram is that the only way they know how acquire and maintain those things is through battle

[correctdbzquotes]

Taking one break of many from quote posting to say very unseriously:

Why fight over who Gohan’s ‘true’ father is between Piccolo and Goku?? Can a child NOT have two fathers? Goku would be ecstatic at the idea, Gohan gets three parents! All he had was his grandpa growing up!

[mathewryf]

I love how long it took her to process that because like. NOBODY was prepared for that.

The awkward silence actually sells the scene way better, too.

“drakengard 3 is a bad game” okay but have you considered this?

[vanderdyks]

I literally dont know how to continue explaining to people that part of the reason Goku decided to stay dead was because Gohan hated fighting.

He didnt know this until cell. He literally had no idea. Gohan NEVER gave any indication whatsoever. Couple that with the fact Bulma pointed out most of people threatening the Earth during that point in time were all people wanting Goku. The saiyans. Frieza. The androids. Doctor Gero. Cell.

All because of Goku. Its not his fault but his very existence consistently put the Earth in danger. He truly believed Earth would be safer without him and therefore, gohan wouldnt be consistently placed into battle.

Because Goku didnt know gohan hated fighting. But once he knew came the very interwoven nature of these threats he brought making his own son fight because gohan felt he HAD to. Not because he wanted to. For goku, protecting the earth always aligned with his own love for fighting. But gohan fought out of necessity, out of the very idea that they couldnt afford to do it without him. He has this power he didnt ask for so he must use it right? Because it would be selfish if he didnt.

But goku... goku thought gohan was like him. Gohan WANTED to return to help fight vegeta. He WANTED to go to namek. He WANTED to stay and fight after piccolo almost died to frieza. Goku didnt see gohan train that first year. Didnt witness what it took to make gohan a fighter. All he saw was his son who now was strong and wanted to join the fight like his dad. And he knows gohan is more powerful than them, knows he can stop cell, FELT IT. Gohan has to defeat cell because no one else can. So he thinks if gohan gets angry enough fighting cell, itll be the answer. Because thats how its always been for goku. And in thirty seconds piccolo makes him realize he's wrong. He doesnt argue back, he listens and concedes and realizes that piccolo is right. And suddenly goku wants to abandon his plan and stop the fight. He made a mistake. He intends to get gohan out. And in the end, he still ended up being right, but it doesnt change what goku now knows. Gohan isnt like him and he doesnt enjoy fighting.

Goku would have NEVER made gohan fight if he thought he didnt want to. You know this whenever adult gohan gets involved in a fight and goku apologizes that he had to. Or when someone suggests gohan for a battle and goku is like nah he's "out of practice," even when they have time FOR PRACTICE. He never wants to force gohan into a situation like cell again. Because cell was a mistake and goku has learned from it. So he never asks Gohan to fight anymore. If Gohan wants in then of course he's in. But he wants his son to be able to choose that. He wants gohan to be HAPPY and if thats not fighting then thats perfectly alright with goku.

So it wasnt just about keeping the earth safe. Or his friends. It was knowing that in the safety of gokus absence, gohan wouldnt have to fight either. There would be less threats, less chances of his son being forced into battle. And sure he also trusted that gohan and the others could keep the earth safe if they had to, but he was banking on the threat level significantly decreasing instead.

And decrease it did. They had seven whole years of peace. Not a single threat. Meanwhile from the moment Raditz shows up to gokus death to cell, it all takes place within the span of FIVE YEARS. The longest they went without a threat was the three year gap spent training for the androids. And they spent every waking moment knowing they were coming.

And then if you look at trunks future... majority of the human population being wiped out by the androids. Majority of gokus friends. His son. All dead. Because of him. Because he defeated the red ribbon army when he was a child. And that very easily could have been their future as well. So Goku does his job in preventing that. He saves all of them. And if hes the only one who ends up dead, well... it doesnt matter. Because they aren't. And he intends to keep it that way. So he stays in otherworld, to keep them safe and to give his son a future that he can choose. If Gohan has to fight, then he can. But at least his father wouldnt be the one bringing the threats to his door.

[saiyanmazen]

Parenting styles in Dragon Ball Z (and Super)

You know, to me, the interesting thing about this scene (and the one where they could to the aforementioned park) isn't the fact that Vegeta keeps his promise.

It's the fact that he uses positive reinforcement to motivate Trunks.

Do you think Vegeta was ever rewarded for landing a good hit? Definitely not. It was expected of him.

As an expert in children's development, I find it fascinating to look at this example of Vegeta parenting Trunks and what it says about his parenting style. I've seen headcanons that go from calling 'Dadgeta' authoritarian to neglectful, but I disagree.

In the following, I will briefly describe the four styles of parenting with focus on the authoritarian and the authoritative styles. I'll also compare them to how DBZ parents appear to raise their children, but mainly focus on Vegeta.

Authoritarian:

This is the old school parenting method where restrictions and punishments go hand in hand. The parents expect the children to obey rules without a clear explanation as to why and corporal punishment is used when the children overstep.

Unsurprisingly, it seems like a lot of people believe this is how Vegeta raises his children (If he is even involved; I'll address this later on.) It was likely how he was raised.

However, the only parent we actually see using this style is Chichi. She's not entirely unreasonable, but we do see her expect things from Gohan without explanations and she has a lot of restrictions set up. This might have something to do with Goku's parenting style, but more on that later.

Piccolo also uses authoritarianism with Gohan, but he isn't trying to parent him, just train him.

What's really interesting is that children raised in a household practicing authoritarianism tend to hold a lot of anger inside. They also have low self-efficacy and high self blame. Remind you of someone?

Indulgent

Here we see nurturing, accepting parents who don't have behavioral expectations of their children. They are responsive to the children's needs and wishes, but do not expect them to be the same toward other people. The parents want to be the child's friend rather than a demanding parent.

Children of indulgent parents tend to grow up without a sense of others' boundaries and generally have less discipline than their peers. They lack impulse control and are often irresponsible.

In DBZ we do see signs of this parenting style, but only limited. It's not commonly used in Asia and therefore, Toriyama didn't add it. In GT it's obvious that both Trunks and Bulla seem have been parenting this way by Bulma. It's also why many doubt that Vegeta has been much involved.

It's also easy to argue that Goku parents this way, although it's up for discussion.

Neglectful

Although many think that the indulgent parenting style have created a generation of undisciplined young people, the neglectful parenting style has actually had a greater effect.

The parents are either more interested in themselves and their own goals than their children's. (Although sometimes it's because the parents struggle with stress or depression) Children of these parents are usually lonely and melancholic, often have very low self esteem and are needy after affection and approval. This leads them to be easily manipulated and they are at a higher risk to end up in abusive relationships.

I think many of the Vegeta antis and those claiming Goku is a bad parent would place the two Saiyans here.

However, Goku is clearly involved in Gohan's upbringing, albeit choosing a more casual approach than Chichi, and returns after being dead for seven years, ready to be involved with Goten (and Gohan if he wants it). The reason that Goku mainly focuses on training isn't just because it's his own interest. It's what he knows for sure how to do.

Most importantly: it was how Goku was raised himself. First by Grandpa Gohan and later from his other father figure, Master Roshi. It isn't just in his blood; it's in his upbringing.

And then there's Vegeta’s parenting style which was my main focus for this post. It got a little out of control, but we have finally arrived at the last parenting style:

Authoritative

This is the most modern parenting style, even though it isn't really new. It's been used for years in well functioning familes. This type of parent is both demanding and nurturing, being present and engaged in their children's lives. They explain things to their children, teach them how to regulate their feelings and therefore expect a mature behavior from them.

Children of authoritative parents tend to be more successful in their adult lives, capable of discipline and well-liked. Because they aren't constantly being restricted, they naturally develope autonomy within set boundaries and learn to respect others, regardless of authority.

So, what does this have to do with Vegeta and Trunks?

As I mentioned in the beginning, in the scene in the Gravity Chamber, Vegeta uses positive reinforcement to motive Trunks. Positive reinforcement has proven to be a healthy way to motivate children (and animals) and is a part of the authoritative style. By using it, Vegeta provides Trunks with rules that foster motivation and discipline in the child. The fact that Vegeta knows about the amusement and can use it as an incentive also shows that he is involved enough to know what may get Trunks to do his best.

But the most important thing we see is that Vegeta upholds his promise, despite hating every second of it. It shows that he respects Trunks' efforts and achievement. By honoring his word, he also teaches Trunks to do the same.

Of course, this is a small scene and we don't know how Vegeta behaves otherwise in regards to Trunks. But it's safe to say that Vegeta does take his son's wishes into account and uses it to encourage him to move beyond his limits.

I admit that I'm not a fan of GT and don't consider it canon, especially because of Toriyama's lack of involvement. So, while I dislike many aspects of DBS, I do think it's the best representation of the characters.

In Super, both Goten and Trunks are well adjusted boys who both have discipline and test the boundaries of their autonomy. They act like boys their age, albeit with incredibly strength, and it goes to show that their parents have raised them well.

Of course, it's also important to remember that both DBZ and DBS (and even GT) are a product of their time and the parenting styles reflect that. DBZ is from the 80's where the authoritarian (Chichi) and indulgent (Goku) styles were the most common. GT is from the 90's where the media started to focus on indulgent and neglectful parents - even though it wasn't a new thing - and it's shown that Trunks, Bulla and Goten have grown up as spoiled and undisciplined. DBS shows that the parents in the show have become authoritative and their children's behavior reflects that.

It's clear that the parents are doing their best and that the fathers have become more involved nowadays than before. This is the case in modern parenting as well.

Anyway, this is the end of my long rant. I think, as both an expert in children's development and as a parent myself, it's interesting to look into the relationships between the characters, especially the father-son interactions which are explored the most. There's no doubt that Toriyama knew the importance of being a father and wanted to portray it, mainly in Goku and Gohan's relationship.

I don't think Toriyama saw Goku nor Vegeta as bad fathers, but he knew that everyone has different strengths, even in parenthood.

[tobiasdrake]

Incidentally, we can't really talk about pragmatism without talking about Future Trunks.

Krillin is a devious and underhanded martial artist, but still a martial artist. Trunks is an assassin. He goes straight for the throat at every opportunity. He's not here to fight; He's here to kill.

Much like his father, Trunks is not a martial artist. Every bit Vegeta's son, he's naturally gifted and has already become a Super Saiyan by both of his first appearances - in the story, when he fights Frieza on Earth, and also chronologically in Trunks the Story: A Lone Warrior.

I can't really say he's untrained. He was trained in the basics by Gohan. But Gohan is also not a martial artist; He's had one year and six months of proper martial arts training. One year from Piccolo and six months from Krillin.

Gohan's a fighter, guided by emotion moreso than technique. So there's a limit to how much Trunks can learn from him. Even Gohan admits that he's a poor substitute for his dad.

This, I should note, is a meaningful admission from Gohan because this chapter was published at the very beginning of the Cell Games. Gohan outright saying "I wanted to follow in my dad's footsteps but the clothes aren't enough" sets up an important contrast to the Gohan of the present time who has had that time with Goku and is ready to take his place.

But his concession of inadequacy is important for how we interpret Trunks as well. Trunks knows the stuff. He can perform Bukujutsu. Throw ki blasts. Power up into a Super Saiyan. But he's not Goku or Krillin or Yamcha or Tenshinhan; Like Gohan and Vegeta, he is a fighter, not a martial artist.

His heart is in the right place, but he's reckless and foolhardy. Chomping at the bit for a piece of vengeance.

This recklessness carries into his journey to the past. He never quite learns from his brief offscreen shitstomp by the Twins. He returns to a point in history just after Goku's return from space. Historically, this was a key moment in history where Goku showed up in the nick of time to save Earth from Frieza and his father King Cold. Which should technically be Great King Cold as it's Cold-Daio but he's far from the first king to have his Greatness dropped in translation, eh Piccolo?

But when Goku's late to the party, Trunks starts to worry and decides to step in himself.

Look at him. The spitting image of his father, full of piss and vinegar.

It's here that we get to see Trunks as a fighter for the very first time. Even chronologically; In Trunks the Story, they skip most of the action; It's very brief.

I mean. It's an absolutely hilarious joke that we see Trunks flying off half-cocked to go get revenge and then he's waking up from a coma on the very next page. Amazing cutaway gag.

But we're here to talk about Trunks's DNA as a fighter, so Frieza offers us the first material we have to work with. And Trunks? He does not fuck around.

Your soldiers are dead. Who's next?

You're dead. Who's next?

Your father's dead. We done here?

Trunks gives zero shits. In the span of two chapters, he massacres Frieza, Cold, and all of their soldiers without an ounce of hesitation. He is not playing.

He was even paying attention to the part where Frieza can survive grievous amounts of harm and come back. He takes great care to thoroughly and utterly annihilate every last bit of Frieza. Taking no chances.

Trunks isn't here to fight. He's here to kill. He is not interested in a protracted martial arts bout.

This fight, incidentally, also gives us a moment to talk about Trunks's sword. Cold-Dumbass thinks Trunks's sword is the key to his power.

He's an idiot. There's a reason he only exists for like three chapters and one page of a fourth. This man doesn't even understand how weapons work in anime.

Japan and the West have very different relationships with weapons. When Westerners think of weapons, we think of guns. Even when we write medieval weapons, we treat them like guns. Guns are disposable tools that bestow killing power upon their wielder. Any average Joe with a gun suddenly becomes a lethal warrior.

But Japan has a rich history and philosophy baked into their culture surrounding weapons and their role in martial arts. In anime, a weapon does not grant power; It manifests power. The weapon is an extension of its wielder. It's a means by which the wielder expresses their own strength.

In Trunks's hands, that sword can cut through Frieza. Because Trunks is powerful, and his might outshines Frieza's.

In Cold's hands, however, that sword is harmless. Because Cold is weak and cowardly. (Uh, relative to Trunks.) He has no power to express.

But Goku is strong. Goku knows power intimately, far beyond Trunks's understanding. And so Trunk's sword, his expression of power, is useless against Goku.

This is what Trunks's sword means, to him and to the story. It's an extension of his character and his strength; The means by which he delivers his killing force. Which is precisely what makes this moment so devastating.

When 18 breaks Trunks's sword, she breaks Trunks. The damage to his blade is honestly not that severe. It could probably be reforged. But the damage to Trunks's self-image, to his psyche, is unshakable.

Trunks never uses his sword again. He leaves it on the plane here.

And then we never see it again. Instead, Trunks decides to pursue greater martial arts training alongside his father, following in Vegeta's footsteps.

But he never quite loses his assassin streak. Though he begins to develop his abilities as a fighter from this point forward, Trunks is goal-oriented. He wants to kill the Twins. He doesn't care how that happens.

In the original version of these events, before Cell further altered the timeline, those blueprints were the key to Trunks's victory against the Twins of his timeline.

Though Cell has no idea how Trunks pulled off this victory despite being too weak to defend himself from Cell himself, the discovery of Gero's lab offers us a possible explanation.

The Twins have shutdown switches built into their systems. Though 17 destroyed the remote Gero built, Bulma is able to use these blueprints to build a new one.

So there's a solid implication that the weaker Trunks of Cell's timeline took Bulma's remote home with him and disabled the Twins that way. Again: He's not here to fight. He's here to kill. It doesn't matter how he does it.

...well, I guess it does matter 'cause that Trunks got wasted by Cell five minutes later.

Point is, Trunks wears his goal-oriented ruthlessness on his sleeve. He's not driven by pride of by love of the art. He has a job he's here to do.

However that single-minded focus, that determination to get it done, also holds him back. Trunks has never had proper martial training. He's been taught by Future Gohan, who is not a martial artist. And he's... taught himself near Vegeta. His developed his abilities and increased his strength, but he doesn't know fighting the way Goku or Krillin or Yamcha or Ten do. Nor does he have Vegeta's natural brilliance and general understanding.

Trunks, for all his strength and all his determination and all his killing instinct, is an amateur. We all know what happened to him in the last fight he ever fought here in the present.

Vegeta breaks the limits of the Super Saiyan and realizes that this power is good but comes at a cost, so he should only do it sparingly.

Goku breaks the limits of the Super Saiyan and realizes this form sucks and is stupid, and decides to go a different route entirely.

But Trunks breaks the limits of the Super Saiyan and goes "AWWW YEAH THIS IS THE SHIT GIMME THAT POWER" because he doesn't know. He has a killer's instinct, not a martial artist's. He's never been trained in technique.

We see, over the course of this series, both Trunks's strengths and his weaknesses as a fighter. In every altercation, he goes straight for the throat. Which is brutally effective when he has the power to back it up but Trunks, more than anyone, is vulnerable to a crushing defeat if he doesn't have the Power Level to back it up. He has nothing else.

Still, he gets to go out on a high note. His final chapter sees him return to the future, not with the remote but with the great strength he gained in the Room of Spirit and Time. And he gets to clean house his way - slaughtering the Twins efficiently and thoroughly, in true Trunks fashion.

And also getting Cell for good measure.

Godspeed, killer. You were the best your world had left to offer but you rose to the occasion, and that's the most that could be asked of anyone.

[galexibrain]

I think it's often overlooked how fucking traumatic that entire thing must be for Goku. Not only is his opponent - who he was just barely keeping up with as is - turning into a giant ape, but he's also just learning that Goku himself was the one who killed his grandfather:

And like. Wow. What a day. First he comes back from the dead to find everyone but Krilling and Gohan dead, then he seriously struggles to keep up with Vegeta, and NOW he gets to learn that the monster his grandfather used to warn him about was HIM.

Sucks.

[fanfic-lover-girl]

Goku may have failed Gohan in some ways as a father, but Piccolo was never and will never be Gohan's Daddy

So when I was younger, I enjoyed a handful of fics centred on Piccolo and Gohan's relationship. I love how much Piccolo came to care for Gohan and it was nice to see Dad!Piccolo every now and then...but Dad!Piccolo can't ever measure up to fics where Goku is a great dad. I understand why some people may believe Piccolo is Gohan's true dad but I don't agree, especially now as an adult woman with my father now dead.

Disclaimer: I am basing this off my experience watching Dragonball, DBZ, DBGT and most of the DBZ/GT movies. I have not watched DBS nor will I ever. That series can screw itself.

Piccolo's responsibility in destroying Gohan's childhood

Piccolo is the one who thrust Gohan into the world of fighting and world-ending battles. He kidnapped Gohan and left Gohan to fend for himself for months. I will argue that Piccolo started Gohan's warrior path on a traumatic note and that's partly why Gohan does not gravitate towards fighting as he grows older. Yes, Piccolo changed but the damage can not be undone.

Difference in species

This may look superficial at first glance but it is significant as you look into it. Namekians are radically different from humans/saiyans physically, emotionally and sexually. That means that Piccolo can not advise Gohan on various aspects of his life as he grows older, especially during puberty. Piccolo can't teach him to shave. Piccolo can't give him the sex talk and talk to him about girls. Piccolo can't help Gohan with his friendships. Piccolo can't relate to whatever saiyan or human urge Gohan may experience. A father is supposed to model a good man for his kids and teach his son to be one. Piccolo can't offer that to Gohan, unfortunately.

Emotional distance

I see Gohan as a very emotional and affectionate person. You see this when he interacts with Goku, Goten and Videl. Piccolo is more reserved and closed off. Usually when Piccolo and Gohan interact, there's always some kind of distance between them. However, there are a few times when Piccolo will rest his hand on Gohan's head or shoulder when he feels extremely proud like after the Cell games. However, I don't think this would have been enough from a father figure for Gohan. When Gohan is crying after Goku's sacrifice, it's Krillin who steps up and comforts Gohan. When the Z fighters go to the lookout after Gohan's victory, it's Yamcha who carries Gohan. This does not mean Piccolo does not care for Gohan! I am just saying that Gohan likes physical forms of affection too, but that's not Piccolo's love language.

Fighting is all they have in common

We don't see Piccolo and Gohan have any extensive scenes together outside the context of battles and fighting. What exactly do they do together for fun? What do they talk about? In the movies, we see kid Gohan being silly around Piccolo and Piccolo tolerating him, but that hardly counts. I get the vibe from the series that Gohan's visits to Piccolo are brief and they don't have much small talk. With Goku, we see Gohan and him enjoy pastimes together like fishing, bathing and eating. In the lead-up to the Cell games, we see them reminisce about Gohan's childhood and have fun as a family at Gohan's birthday party. Why wasn't Piccolo there?

Piccolo is not involved wholistically in Gohan's life

Piccolo only really exists and functions in the fighting realm of Gohan's life. This is why their relationship does not feel as close as Gohan grows older and starts his career and family. Piccolo hardly expresses any interest in the other facets of Gohan's life. I don't even recall Piccolo interacting at all with Pan or Videl at the end of Z or GT. He is not close with Chi Chi and Goten, Gohan's family. I think Piccolo is closer to the Son family in Super but I don't care. Compare this with Goku who encourages Gohan to study, teases him about Videl and spends time with Pan.

Conclusion: Goku is Gohan's daddy and Piccolo can't fill that gap.

This does not take away the fact that Piccolo protected Gohan and loved him in his own way. Sacrificing himself for Gohan multiple times. Piccolo was the one who understood Gohan's mindset during the Cell games (probably because he was the one who beat baby Gohan into a fighter and saw his timidness up close vs. Goku who came back to life and only saw hero Gohan being badass all the time) and was the first Z fighter to step in during Gohan's fight against Cell. But Piccolo is better labelled as a friend or mentor to Gohan. Maybe uncle or big brother. Goku is Gohan's father, Gohan sees Goku as his daddy, and Piccolo will never fill that role for Gohan.

[kakarotcake]

Had a giant early morning realization on why I enjoy Gochi as much as I do. (I wrote a lot in this; there's a TLDR at the end but please read through my hopefully-coherent rambling to get full context.)

It's specifically because of how non-conventional they are. They didn't date / go through a courting phase before they got married. They barely knew each other at all in fact. Yet, Goku felt unbothered enough to honor a promise he made as a child, and agreed to go forward with the marriage anyway. Chi Chi stayed committed to Goku's promise, despite how she didn't know him, and literally got his consent as an adult first before they went on.

And they made it work.

I so wish we got to see the 5 years of Goku and Chi Chi living together + the early years of Gohan's youth, but specifically because I would like to see just how they each adapted to their new living situation. But regardless, the fact remains that they STAYED together. Chi Chi for sure would've left Goku if she was that unhappy with how Goku just isn't a conventional guy when it comes to relationships. Going home to her dad and resuming being Fire / Frypan Mountain's Princess was always right there as an option. Hell Chi Chi's been identified as an attractive lady in-universe, so she could probably meet someone new before long! But she didn't take it. IIRC, she never has.

I also feel like Goku would also get up and leave if he was unhappy. He's never had to force himself to sacrifice his own happiness for someone else as he lived on Paozu by himself for years, then spent the rest of his teenhood traveling around & training, so if presented with that kind of scenario he wouldn't think twice before being like "ok whatever, see ya" and just peacing out. He wouldn't see the point in staying, since why would he make himself stay somewhere he isn't welcomed or doesn't feel welcome? Grandpa Gohan's old home was always there for him.

My personal biggest gripes with their relationship have honestly never been because of how they had little chemistry before they got together. For me it's always been about how Chi Chi is just treated like a joke by the writer(s); she follows an angry housewife stereotype. Sure, it's supposed to be a joke and she's supposed to come off as comedic, but it only ends up doing damage because it encourages you as a viewer to not take Chi Chi or her relationship with Goku seriously. (I'm ignoring Goku here, but his writing in DBS *anime wise at least* is atrocious and further fed into this btw.)

Yet, from what I've seen over the years in the western fanbase, people's biggest issues with Gochi (aside from general Chi Chi hatred) is because it isn't a conventional relationship. It had hardly any chemistry going into it. I understand that logic, don't get me wrong, but I only understand it when I factor in society's amatonormative & allonormative lens. And I hate both of those things. Gochi not complying with them is what I find charming about the ship.

They didn't date or establish a super deep bond or whatever, yet they lived together in peace for 5 years. They continued to bounce off of one another throughout Z. Chi Chi NEVER remarried or even dated someone while Goku was dead for 7 years. She was crying happy tears when he finally returned at the end of the Buu saga. Goku was more than happy to go home with her and their kids (and tbh I'm 99.99% sure he wouldn't have minded if Chi Chi chose to get with someone else - he chose to stay dead after all). OBVIOUSLY they care for one another a lot, despite how they married each other as strangers. They themselves are narrative (if that's the right word) proof that conventional love & romance & whatever don't guarantee successful marriages. I adore that.

And it's funny because Vegebul is a pairing that also had little to no chemistry going into it, but unlike with Gochi, the no chemistry actually does hurt it for a couple of reasons (all of them revolving around how Vegeta was/is a terrible person) that I won't get into here because it'll derail this post and it's long enough already. I just wanted to point that out in text myself first, before other people came at me trying to argue it.

Anyway. TLDR Gochi as a ship defies amatonormative & allonormative concepts regarding intimate relationships. "You have to date / court someone first, fall in love with them, then marry them because marriage will make sense & be healthy then." They didn't do the first two parts, but after getting married, they're happy together. They spat in the face of societal norms & expectations.

[grimmcheems]

Wrong Timeline Trunks!

For some reason I managed to draw this entire mini comic at midnight oop. Rip my sleep bc I work tmr. Anyways. This is my Future!Chichi AU with a dash of my dead!Chichi AU.🤭 Trunks didn’t set the coordinates right and landed them in the wrong timeline. They still decide to stop by to restock supplies and Chichi goes out to hydrate. I have a whole fic for this (the future timeline with chichi and trunks and mai) and it even has a dash of GokuBlack! POV.(ref back to my past arts about Goku Black and Chichi.). This is also a reference to my previous art of Chichi dying of the heart virus instead of Goku, so it’s basically a world without Chichi or Goten.

Goku and Chichi panic at seeing each other overall bc they think they are imagining things, Chichi has trauma from Goku Black and Goku fully accepted her death and that he’d never see her again but this interaction really throws them in for a loop. Poor baby Gohan is trying to understand what’s going on and Trunks arrives a second too late and now they have to explain themselves oop.

Man I rly gotta finish writing this fic lmao🗿💀👩🏽‍🦯✍🏽

[girlfatherfigure]

What actually happened during the cell saga was not a matter of goku misunderstanding gohan or thinking gohan was exactly like him it was actually goku knowingly setting gohan up at the centre of the conflict with the understanding that gohan would not want to willingly fight and making that choice all the same. It is actually goku making himself into the bad guy because he’s prioritizing victory over what he knows gohan wants—which he is aware is awful from his point of view as a father, but it’s a sacrifice he’s willing to make for the greater good

When goku says this:

He’s really saying “if you want to be able to accomplish these things in the future, then you have to be able to push whatever you’re feeling to the side right now and fight.” He actually cares a lot about Gohan’s preferences and what gohan wants to do with his life—but at this point, he’s telling gohan the battle takes precedence over it all. He’s keeping his composure as he basically sends gohan in blind, because this plan was always his secret weapon; chi chi even tells goku before they leave in front of gohan to make sure gohan doesn’t fight, and goku jokingly brushes her off, neither confirming nor denying it. It’s his calculated final ace, and although he acts like everything is going to plan while his son is literally being beat to death before his eyes it’s piccolo who snaps him out of it:

When he has this entire speech. This is where goku kind of Breaks and freaks out because first of all this entire thing is a gamble—he’s betting the entire world on gohan bringing out this potential that he’s never fully brought out before, and if goku is wrong and that potential was never there to begin with, it’s just going to spell death for his son. Goku ends up being correct about gohan’s strength, but this leads to people saying piccolo was the one who misunderstood gohan—which is also incorrect. Gohan’s thoughts in those moments before he managed to break through the wall and go full power were definitely full of confusion and hurt; after all, he had no idea his father was going to put him up to this. Piccolo tells goku “gohan doesn’t like to fight” which gohan literally confirms here:

And ultimately, while goku does know his son, he overestimated how easily gohan would be able to harness his strength against cell massively. It’s a detrimental mistake that leads to gohan being injured gravely before he transforms, and after gohan finally breaks through that wall, the ego that comes with the power boost and just how mentally broken he’s been with the fight is all wrong—and goku sees that. Which is why he steps in to help for the final time, and… we all know how that ends up, even though again, it is gohan who defeats cell the way goku predicted he would. It just came at a cost much larger than goku was imagining, or maybe he was aware of it and didn’t fully realize the ramifications until it was happening in front of him in the flesh. It’s a big reason goku stays dead—he says he’s the one who keeps bringing danger to earth because of how often he’s targeted, and he never wants to have to see gohan like that again.

[ghitathepanda]

Dragon Ball Daima brought back the "Goku bad dad" thing so lemme put in my two cents on the whole thing.

I had recently re-read the entire Dragon Ball manga, finishing the last chapter the Sunday prior to episode 7 of Daima. I didn't really come across moments that made me think of Goku's competence as a parent, with his trust in Gohan for Cell while misunderstanding his drive to fight being his one big mistake. But I specifically pointed out the misunderstanding instead of everything else people think of with the Cell bit because that mistake is what lead to those decisions. If you take into consideration everything that lead up to Goku placing his trust into Gohan, like how Gohan actually WANTS to train with his father, both during the time gap for the Androids/Cyborgs AND for his Super Saiyan training for instance, I think assuming Gohan has BOTH the goal of being a scholar and the drive to fight to better himself (the best way I can describe Goku's drive to fight) is fair on Goku's part. Also, unfortunately, Gohan himself is aware of what Goku had planned for him but was too passive to protest (and also the Earth is at stake so he cannot afford to be selfish). Goku still makes mistakes, yes, but people love to pin the "bad dad" label on him without examining the context, probably because it takes too much time for these people to properly check and it's "funny".

Point is, if you read the original manga and then jump straight into Daima without any knowledge of the "bad dad" discourse, at worst, you'll go "huh?" and probably just think of how he was dead for a good chunk of time and Panzy, having zero context, just assumes the worst out of him. Let's be fair, for someone who grew up in the mountains alone with no knowledge on what is supposed to be normal, marrying a girl who locked in on her desire to marry him because he went pat-pat on her crotch and wants to live her fantasy of a "normal family life" and doesn't count martial arts to be part of that "normal family life", he was going to struggle at being a parent. But here's thing I noticed in retrospect: Goku had always been aware he's not great at raising kids and being a parent... especially under Chi-Chi's definition, but whenever the opportunity to spend time with his children comes around, he does his best to try. If we're to assume the specific phrase "raising a kid", as Panzy said in episode 7 of Daima to be accurate and not a paraphrase on the translators part, Goku was most likely downplaying his contributions to parenting.

TLDR: Goku is aware he isn't great at parenting but dammit he tries whenever he can and also Chi-Chi can be demanding with her desires of a "normal family life"

P.S. Don't take this as me hating on Chi-Chi. I just didn't want to add on to this whole post talking about how I view her as a mother.

[colorsofinquiry]

I had to put this thought down, because it was important to put it on Goku and Gohan.

In the fight against Cell, Goku was chastised by Piccolo on not picking up that Gohan is reluctant to fight. I have an opinion on why he could not do so.

In the Saiyan Saga, Piccolo got to see Gohan's fear on the whole situation despite training him to take on Nappa and Vegeta. That instance definitely stuck with him. By the time Goku arrived, he got to see that Gohan was involved in the fight and he had gotten stronger. It doesn't feel like he got to know Gohan's fear. Plus, Gohan did go back to the battle after Vegeta transformed of his own free will.

In the Namek and Frieza Saga, this continues. Gohan demonstrates that he can fight, but he fought because there was no choice. Goku again shows up when Gohan had already entered the fight. So, its not wrong to assume for Goku that Gohan does share his fighting interest. This is why I think he has a shocked reaction when Piccolo calls him out. He didn't get to see Gohan's fear and he was seeing it for the first time. Its also why I feel he wanted to stay dead, so that Gohan is never put in a situation like Cell again. This is a thought I had, you can disagree with it.

[akiizayoi4869]

If there's one part about Vegeta's arc that I absolutely love, it would be this:

His regression in season 8 was very well done. It wasn't shoehorned in and it made sense. I remember seeing on Reddit years ago people complaining about this specific part of his arc, saying that it made no sense for him to regress the way he did when he was redeemed at this point. But consider this. It makes perfect sense when you factor in one thing: he wasn't redeemed yet. He was still going through his redemption arc by this point.

Vegeta wasn't raised to be a family man. He was raised to be a killing machine. He was raised with the idea in mind that he would one day be the king of the Saiyan race. All of that got taken away from him. His belief that he was the strongest Saiyan alive was taken when Goku became a Super Saiyan and defeated Frieza, and again when Gohan became a Super Saiyan 2 and killed Perfect Cell. And then Goku makes the choice to stay dead instead of coming back to life via the dragon balls. So now, Vegeta's one rival, the person who he swore he would one day surpass and defeat is gone for good. So all Vegeta has left at this point is the family he created with Bulma. Something that he most likely never envisioned for himself. So he decides to live a life on earth with her and their son.

Everything seems to be going fine for Vegeta....until the World Martial Arts Tournament happens. And Goku decides to return on this one day so that he can participate. Suddenly, all of the feelings that Vegeta bottled up over the last 7 years since Goku's death comes rushing to the surface. Finally, after all this time, Vegeta could finally prove that he's better than Goku. They even get matched up to fight each other in the tournament! How lucky is that, right? And then this guy happens:

And just like that, Vegeta's chance to fight Goku is now shattered thanks to this new threat to Earth. Instead of his attention being on him, Goku has his sights set on defeating Buu before he can be revived. For the entire time Vegeta, Goku, Gohan, and the Supreme Kai are in Babidi's lair, Vegeta is angry. He's waited 7 years for the chance to fight Goku again, and now that he finally gets the chance to do so, this happens. We see Vegeta's mood get worse and worse throughout the time they fight Babidi's minions, and it's gets so bad to the point where Babidi is able to get Vegeta under his control. Now, as Vegeta pointed out later on, he actually could of fought off Babidi's mind control. But he chose not to. Why? Because he saw how powerful Babidi's minions were while they were under his control. So Vegeta figured he could use some of that power to do this:

Fight Goku without any interruptions. Which is what he wanted from the start. Even though he knew that fighting would give more energy to Buu and thus revive him, Vegeta didn't care. So long as he got to fight Goku. Keep in mind that this is the same guy who let Semi-Perfect Cell absorb Android 18, despite the fact that he knew it could end up being a bad decision. But Vegeta didn't care because he wanted a good fight.

Now there's one line that Vegeta said to Goku during this fight that always stuck with me from the moment I heard it back when I was a kid. When Goku asks him why did he do all of this, Vegeta responds with "Because I wanted him to reawaken the evil within my heart. I wanted him to return me to the way I was...BEFORE!!! I WAS THE PERFECT WARRIOR! COLD AND RUTHLESS! I LIVED BY MY STRENGTH ALONE! UNINHIBITED BY FOOLISH EMOTION!!! But slowly...over the years... I became one of you. My quest for greatness gradually giving way to this life of mediocrity. I awoke one day to find that I had settled down and formed a family. I had even grown quite fond of them. Would you believe, I almost started thinking that the Earth was a nice place to live. Do you understand now, Kakarrot? That's why I needed Babidi! To set me free! By releasing the evil within my heart! He has freed me of these petty attachments. And I have to say it feels pretty good."

That entire speech he gave to Goku summarized PERFECTLY the internal conflict that Vegeta had going on within him. On the one hand, he wants this. He wants to feel strong again. He wants to defeat Goku and prove that he's better than him once and for all. He wants the life of a warrior back, because for so long that's all he knew. But on the other hand, he knows that the way he's going about it is wrong. Like he just admitted to Goku, there's a small part of him that loves the life he made for himself, and that he loves his family, too. Which is why Goku then says to him "Do you really believe what you're saying?". Now, Vegeta doesn't respond to this, but he doesn't have to. His silence is his answer. After that, the long awaited fight between these two begins. And after a while, Vegeta does come to the realization that he fucked up big time, and that he needs to do something to make up for it. Which is why he does this:

He knocks Goku out while his back is turned. Why? Because he wants to fight Majin Buu alone. Because if it hadn't been for Vegeta's desire to fight Goku, Majin Buu probably wouldn't have gotten the energy he needed to be revived. So Vegeta decides to take full responsibility for everything and take on Buu himself. To me, this is when his redemption arc comes full circle, because of his sacrifice. He knows that he can't beat Majin Buu through normal means, so what does he do? Blow himself up in an explosion that he's certain will destroy Buu along with him.

Vegeta even says in his mind that he's doing this for Bulma, Trunks, and even Goku. Something that I'm pretty sure a lot of us never thought we would ever hear him say. That he's doing something for other people. That he's not doing this for himself. I'm pretty sure that he saw this as his way to atone (hence why this move is called "final atonement" in the video games) but the fact remains that he did it anyway. Sure, we see Vegeta get angry when Perfect Cell killed Future Trunks, but still. That moment can't compare to this one. All in all, Majin Vegeta is the best part of Vegeta's redemption arc and the way how it's written really did an excellent job in wrapping it up.

[vanderdyks]

We dont talk enough about the fact that Goku wasnt born strong. Gohan, Vegeta, Broly, Goten, Trunks... all born with innate strength. But Goku... Goku was weak. His entire life growing up, there was ALWAYS someone stronger than him.

For a saiyan to be outmatched by earthlings... ridiculous. But he was. Several times over. Every bit of strength Goku has, he had to work for, train relentlessly for. Its easy to forget because hes so strong now and continiously comes out ahead. But thats the POINT.

Vegeta grew up knowing he was the pride of the saiyan race, born strong, elite, a prodigy. He was hopelessly outmatched by frieza and some of his army, but for a saiyan, vegeta was the strongest (or so he believed).

Because the saiyans put so much belief into power you were born with, power you were destined to have. You either had strength or you didnt. And Goku didnt. So he was third class. His destiny wasnt power, it was weakness.

Its why Vegeta is so constantly thrown off by and therefore obsessed with Goku in the beginning. Because how could someone born so weak be THIS strong? It didnt make sense.

Then we have Gohan, born with incredible hidden reserves of power. Unlike Goku, Gohan was born with potential. His strength was always there. And sure, he had to work incredibly hard to unlock it but its a story arc we keep seeing repeated with gohan. Either its unlocked with anger or someone unlocks it for him (the grand elder, old kai, etc.)

And then Goten and Trunks, both super saiyan by the age of 7. Power came EASY to them. It was as natural as breathing. Goku, Vegeta, and even Gohan all struggled to reach super saiyan. It took a toll. But Trunks and Goten take that power from literal legend and make it a game.

No one has ever had to work as hard as Goku to achieve strength. And you can argue with me on this all day long if you want to. He didnt have hidden powers. There were no hidden reserves, no one to unlock his innate abilities. When he was a child, his unnatural strength compared to human made him special. But for a saiyan, goku was one of the lowest of their race.

Every bit of strength, every morsel of power in gokus body, was built through training. He didnt unlock hidden potentials, HE CREATED them. Its why Goku is the mortal who figures out how to unlock ultra instinct. Because he almost never won a battle purely based off a sheer power, no. Goku had to be smart, needed to be clever. He was forced to hone technique just as much as power, was taught by all his masters the importance of harnessing his mind as well as his body. He grew up meditating, sensing energy, learning not to rely on his eyes, but all his senses. He was training to filter out his own extra unnecessary movements all the way back when he first met Korin and then later again with Kami.

Goku lost fights a lot. All the time. But everytime he lost, he learned. Because he was forced too. Because when Goku lost, there was no backup. He was it. And so he would HAVE to come back stronger, have to find the way to win. Or everyone would be dead.

Maybe its just me but i just think theres something incredibly special about a saiyan labeled as "weak," a saiyan no one bothered to pay any mind to being the first to become legend. He avenged their entire race. That little boy with a tail, born with a power level of 2, became the strongest of them all.