#Engame Elucien

[lovemyromance]

Bro the thing is - I'm not even anti-Elucien.

If SJM were to do a full 180 and suddenly ACOTAR 5 is all about how Lucien comes to Velaris and actually spends time with Elain and Elain starts to slowly fall for him and they have whatever XYZ cute moments - I'd be down!

I'd read that book. I have no shame in admitting it. Smash.

If SJM were to suddenly write Elucien giving each other the time of day and finding whatever "healing" in each other - cool- that's fine - smash.

But what we have been shown of their relationship thus far in the books - I legitimately cannot ship that. There is nothing for me to root for?

"But they're fated mates"

Yeah that means jack shit to me because I'm a human woman. Why would I put value in a fictional concept over love - a very real and human concept.

Elain & Lucien - as they have been written right now - literally do not have a relationship?? Let alone a romantic one I want to root for. They ignore each other. Live apart from each other all year - seemingly without issue. Elain doesnt even want to be in the same room as him. She shrinks away from him. She has a wary look in her eyes when she looks at him. She makes sure she never sits next to to him. She doesn't use any of his gifts.

So just tell me - what am I rooting for? What about their current relationship is supposed to be worth my interest? Why would I want them together if they're like THAT? That's not a romance - that's not even acquaintances. That's a pass from me.

On top of all that, we have the introduction of a male Elain actually seems to want. They have had build up - far more than Elucien has. Azriel is constantly written on the page with Elain and vice versa. Whether it's when his shadows light up at her smile or when Elain's potato steam rises like Azriel's shadows. Like why did SJM even write that about potatoes? Nobody has EVER looked at the steam from potatoes and thought "wow it looks like shadows 🤩"

They've been explicitly tied together on page countless times, far more than Elucien has even though they're "fated mates".

Not tied together through fan-theories of cloaks and sunlight and flowers and ugly black dresses.

Canonically, Elain & Azriel's is the only romantic relationship on the page.

So everything Eluciens are rooting for - is just the hope that "one day" Elain will get over it and suddenly she and Lucien will be together. Suddenly, Lucien & Elain will have feelings for each other and be in love blah blah.

Y'ALL ARE TRYING TO FIND EVIDENCE FOR A SHIIP THAT IS NONEXISTENT ON THE PAGE.

That's what bothers me. Elucien is currently not together, not interested in each other, not even around each other in any proximity.

All this debate is about current state Elriel vs pre-successful Elucien??

It's giving ... that one Jason Mendoza line in the Good Place where he says "I'm not a failed DJ... I'm pre-successful."

"It's not a dead ship - it's pre-successful!"

It's like.. let's ignore what is actually written in the text ... so we can argue about how they're not gonna work out bc XYZ reason... even though the other pairing isn't even talking to each other right now.

"All this is buildup for Elucien" how are y'all saying that if we don't have the next book yet? 😭😭 Can I then say... well your buildup is just buildup for Ultimate Elriel Engame?? Uno +4? Reverse reverse? Where does it end?

Build up - as the name implies - has to BUILD UP TO SOMETHING. How y'all saying "Elain and Lucien ignoring each other is buildup for Elucien" if there is no Elucien in sight??

I'm telling you rn - once there is an Elucien in sight - on the page - smash, idc.

But until then - I have literally no reason to doubt Elriel? So why would I consider Elucien an endgame ship if there is no endgame in sight for them on the page?

[acourtofthought]

You know why I'm confident Elain and Lucien are endgame, aside from the obvious. (We know how the mate bond works)

SJM made a conscious decision to change Lucien's mate from Nesta to Elain when she realized how bad those two would be. She decided Elain was BEST AND BETTER SUITED for Lucien and Cassian for Nesta. She wanted them happy. The journey to endgame doesn't matter, she's already said she likes to put her characters through hell before HEA, and let's be real, Cassian and Lucien (more so Lucien) went through HELL, Cassian only suspected Nesta was his mate and could do nothing as she drank herself to oblivion, hurl insults at him and sleep with other men. Lucien knows and has to deal with his own guilt, wondering if maybe he had known sooner he was destined for another that Jesminda would be alive, while also fighting his instincts for Elain. It's all part of Sarah's plan that she literally laid out for us when she mated them, did she not say she'd set up tension? ARE WE NOT TRACKING TOWARDS IT. It's called storytelling, lol. Elain and Lucien jumping into each others arms was never going to be believable, and besides, SJM said one she likes for her FMC to explore before settling. That's literally all Elriel is, a distraction. It wouldn't have been hard for Sarah to make Elriel true mates, even have Mor and Grayson as roadblocks to overcome, but nope.

Elriels can stalk and harass and push their narrative all day, I could care less, I'm not taking their intrepertation of the text serious OVER THE WORDS THAT HAVE COME FROM SARAH HERSELF IN INTERVIEWS. Who we all know included Elucien in headcanon vacations as well, don't recall her saying Elain and Az 🤭🤣

At least Eluciens aren't in SJMs comments leaving death threats and tweeting that they will kill themselves if she doesn't make Elriel endgame, or literally trying to blackmail BB, when HOSAB leaks came out they continued to tweet at BB to confirm Elriel is endgame or they wouldn't stop sharing the leaks online. DESPARATION - if that's the behavior they have to resort to. Also, really proves they know deep down Elriel was a red herring all along and they are desperate for SJM to change her mind, so resorting to threats is all they have. Including bullying and harassing the fandom, I think the truly believe if Elriel is "popular" SJM will think to herself "oh, you know what, let's me prioritize Elriel" please.

This isn't SJM first rodeo with warships, people argued Chaol and Celena would end up together, the Rowan hate was real. Celeana and Chaol had a legit relationship, got to know one another, slept together, and still were not endgame due to the same red flags Elriels has, same with Feyre and Tamlin, you should've seen the Tamlin stans back then. Some are still around and not very nice people, they are bitter. I imagine the same will be said of Elriels, when their ship is confirmed good and dead they will cry fanservice and or become antis. I just hope the fandom ignores them like we do the other antis now. My point, Sarah and her team have been through this before and it didn't matter to her if Tamlin or Chaol stans were hurt, she writes what her heart desires. These are her characters after, she knows the best and in ways we are readers never will, because we aren't in her head.

If they have been nicer, maybe I'd feel sorry for them. I don't after watching for years the harassment and disgusting behavior againts Eluciens.

Also, HAHAHAHAH that SJM introduced a new female character to Azriels story, the mate parallels are real and they hate it so much they villianized a very sweet character, as an Elucien, same shit, new character to hate, Lucien was the villain for years. But Gwynriels have what Elriels want, a real possibility of a mating bond and if that isn't further proof Elriel was never intended as engame, I don't know what is. 😂🤭

And the first time SJM ever started to tease Azriels LI was during ACOSF, funny she never did prior when Elain had been around since book 1. It's almost as if a new character promoted SJM excitment for Azriels story. I wonder who that could be??

Elain will be with her sunshine in the end. ☀️

I'm so sorry for how long it took me to respond. I was slowly moving through anons prior to Elucien week then sort of stopped all together during that week so we could all focus on the prompts. I think a lot of what you said is much of what the Elucien / Gwynriel fandom feels. I do understand why the Elain and Az situation is confusing for some people because they are two pretty major characters and it is strange to introduce him as a LI after Elain finds out she has a mate only to have it fizzle. But SJM hasn't shied away from two guys vying for the same girl when you consider the history between Dorian / Chaol / Aelin, which you touched on. She was willing to get messy and create tension / jealousy between the two males though I don't think she's ever done it in reverse (two females fighting over a male). And though Aelin didn't end up with either, there was a lot of confusion as to who she was going to end up with. So based on that, it's not that strange for Az to be thrown into the Elain / Lucien mix especially when we couldn't have Elucien getting together all the way back in ACOMAF. To me, he's been a red herring, trying to throw us off the "will they / wont' they" track because Elucien is her first couple to be revealed as mates straight away and it doesn't make for very good storytelling to make it obvious they'll end up together. This series has been building for a long time and while I realize her recent books do move things in a certain direction, that doesn't mean the things she's said in the past are always irrelevant. For example, during the same interview she realized Elucien's bond took her by surprise, she also said the moment Nesta and Cassian sat down at the table together, that was it for them. That they were at one another's throats in the best way possible. But ACOFAS and the start of SF didn't really show us that they were "IT" for one another. Nesta chose to sleep with other males over Cassian, he told her to leave the NC, he told her everyone hated her, she refused his gift and told her to leave him alone. None of that mattered because they still ended up together, exactly like SJM told us in 2015 / 2016. So there's no reason to assume with any sort of confidence that Elucien is any different. An author could change her mind yet again but does anyone really see it happening that way? "Nesta and Lucien will be together." "Wait, they would cause one another too much pain so I'm scrapping that idea." "Wow! I never expected that! My character spoke to me and surprised both Lucien and I and Elain is the one for him! While he and Nesta would have made one another's wounds worse, I don't see that happening with Elain and Lucien" "No, no. actually, Lucien shouldn't be with Elain or Nesta. I think Elain will be with Az instead!" I think most times when a ship falls apart for an author it's because someone else makes sense to them. Not a ship falls apart because THAT character makes better sense but that falls apart because a THIRD character makes better sense. I think there is a lot of toxicity from both sides of the fandom but I will say, for the most part, I think Eluciens and Gwynriels have developed certain behaviors as a defense mechanism to E/riels. It's not necessarily the best way to deal with things however I do think people can only take so much before they feel like they need to fight back in some way. At some point, a person can only take so many taunts and being told their stupid, misogynists, abuse apologists, etc. before they do stand up for themselves which the other side likes to then play victim too. I just look forward to the day where we all get confirmation so we can enjoy the series for what it actually is rather than what we imagine it will be.

[theaterqueen1985]

My personal Vanserra brother headcanons:

Eris Vanserra: Eldest and High Lord. When he takes over as High Lord he makes sure to make it known to all his brothers that it’s okay for them to go off and start doing their own things. That it was time for them to go and make their own paths. Everyone but Rori left and Eris was finally able to breathe. Though not for long because there were still Beron supporters in the world that wanted him dead. Az ended up staying close to keep him alive and eventually it became something more. Before he knows it, he’s marrying the shadowsinger (and there’s a lot of emotions at the ceremony) and then somehow a few years later, they have a daughter of their own that they adopt. And even further down the line a son.

Mercer Vanserra: Second oldest. When Beron’s alive he’s known for his cruelty and is usually Beron’s go-to for needing to torture information out of a suspect. Homeboi is built like an illyrian warrior which makes him stick out among the rest of the skinny Vanserra boys (he's nearly as tall as Cassian). The best cook/baker out of all the boys. When Eris is finally High Lord he ends up moving to the rebuilt Spring Court where he opens a bakery and ends up meeting his future wife, a Spring Court nymph who’s usually kind but will threaten people in the sweetest ways possible. They open basically an awesome cafe and eventually have four children together, two daughters and two sons.

Draan Vanserra: Third oldest and Andri’s twin. When Beron’s alive he and his twin usually are sent on recon missions together as they practically become the other’s shadow. They’re very sneaky and considering they were trained by Eris, they better be able to sneak around. When Eris becomes High Lord he and his brother go their separate ways. He goes to the winter court. He’d always like the icy landscapes there. Ends up meeting a female there that he loves very much. They have 2 children (twins of their own) but also foster many that come through their home that they count them all as their kids as well.

Andri Vanserra: Fourth oldest and Drann’s twin. Like his brother, while Beron’s alive he’s sent on recon missions constantly. When Eris becomes High Lord he goes to Dawn and ends up working with Nuan (eventual friends-to-lovers) and all the other inventors. This boy is a secret genius much to everyone's surprise as he’d always been the quieter of him and his twin, preferring to let Draan take the lead on everything. Him and Nuan have… Something going on, no one really knows what it is, but it’s some sort of relationship.

Frey Vanserra: Fifth oldest. He’s a politician and is often sent on diplomatic missions to all corners of the world. He collects all sorts of trinkets that are kept in a secret house (much like Eris’ secret house). When Eris becomes High Lord he only sticks around until Eris is settled before he leaves Prythian for quite a while (after saying goodbye to his mother of course) traveling to lands he’d never dared enter while in position as Autumn’s emissary. He meets all kinds of people and eventually an irontooth witch and her wyvern who he much later gets to bring her and their daughter to a Vanserra family reunion.

Rori Vanserra: Sixth oldest. While Beron’s around he’s generally ignored by Beron who’s too preoccupied with all his elder brothers. Eris takes him under his wing. He’s the brother Eris generally trusts the most with all sorts of secrets. Rori’s the kindest of the brothers, the most level headed, the one who’s faced the least amount of Beron’s wrath. When Eris is High Lord, he’s one of the few brothers that stick around. He becomes Eris’ second in command with all the constant threats he’s getting. People often get him and Eris mixed up, the two look so much alike it’s hard not to, their mother always said they could be twins (only difference is Rori’s hair is longer, though Eris’ is getting to that point as well since he started growing it out). He ends up meeting his mate on a trip to the Summer Court with his brother. It’s after a meeting with Tarquin that Rori bumps into a Summer Court male outside and boom, bond snaps into place. They go out for coffee and it’s like a love at first sight romance.

Lucien Spell Cleaver: Seventh oldest. Before Beron dies his life is a whole hot mess. Once Eris is High Lord, his true parentage is revealed, he moves to Day to get to know that part of his family, he reconciles with his mother, gets to know his true father (all while roasting him 90% of the time), reconnects slowly with all his brothers, and eventually gets to actually form a relationship with his mate. His life becomes fantastic and eventually he’s got his own gang of children (five) and a loving family.

Thea Spell-Cleaver: The youngest and only daughter. She’s born roughly six years after Eris becomes High Lord and she absolutely LOVES all her brothers. She can get even the most quiet of them to talk and go on crazy adventures with her and to prank even more of them starting the Vanserra prank war which terrifies people more than the war with Hybern. She’s practically a walking library and knows all the coolest things about all the courts and further off lands (that part she usually learns from Frey since he’s been practically everywhere). She grows up to become the Librarian, the soul of the libraries of Day, quite fitting for an heir of Day.