#Dual Loyalty

[notyourgoodjew]

hi, may I ask what BDS means?

Hi! Of course you may :D

BDS stands for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions. It's a movement that promotes boycotting Israeli goods, universities, cultural institutions etc., divesting from companies that provide military supplies to Israel and calling for sanctions in hopes of pressuring the country to meet their demands. Which are to withdraw from the West Bank and remove the barrier, equality for the Arab-Palestinian citizens, right of return for Palestinian refugees etc.

Obligatory warning! I do NOT support the far right Israeli government and its policies (fuck Bibi and his cronies)! I do not see any joy in deaths (both Palestinian and Israeli), I want this war to end as soon as possible, I want peace in the region for everyone!

While their support from Palestinians is high, their tactics had little to no positive effect... in fact it has been quite the opposite, considering the movement has been active for almost two decades...

They have failed to pressure Israel economically, their effect on the economy being negligible, although they have been successful in convincing quite a few unions, and organizations to endorse their cause and pull support of Israel, but due to their boycott of Soda Stream, the company closed their factory in the West Bank, costing a lot of Palestinians their jobs...

So far they've only really been a useful tool for the Israeli right. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

Some people see the movement as being very wishy washy I would say. Their definitions are broad to the point that everything Israeli can potentially fall under a boycott. Like hummus, which they allege "provides support for the Israeli military" (I assure you, hummus export is not a significant part of the Israeli economy).

And while they claim to be pro peace and advocating for a two state solution, they unconditionally support anything Palestinians do and rarely if ever condemn terrorism on their part. Which just endorses more violence instead of a dialogue towards peace. Also due to their focus on Israel they single it out as a uniquely oppressive regime (while ignoring other, often worse, atrocities around the world), which while I agree that Israel has done a lot of awful things, it is far from the worst human rights abuses and certainly not unique in its cruelty. Of course it is right to condemn Israel for its wrongdoings, but the movement has been very ineffective so far in the "let's put economic pressure" sense, only demonizing Israel and everything related to it.

They refuse to engage with anything Israeli, including art (and causing several artists to cancel their shows in Israel) and more importantly a part of the movement (specifically the Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel, or PACBI) has condemned an Israeli-Palestinial grassroots peace organization(!!!) Standing Together (which I highly encourage you check out) which has been doing actual work towards conversation between Israelis and Palestinians with the goal of a Palestinian state and peace, which has condemned the occupation of the territories, which has been protesting despite the police refusing to allow them to (facing arrests and police brutality because of that) and so much more. BDS sees this as "normalization", a "distraction", and "whitewashing" (somehow?), which just reveals that a lot of people in the movement just want Israel gone, not caring about what would happen to its population.

From what I see and where I stand (barely, I'm a cane user, badum tss), BDS is ineffective in achieving its actual goals, however it has successfully divided college campuses and politics both in the US and Europe, inviting even more antisemitism, they are extreme and very narrow minded, accusing American Jews of dual loyalty. Their support of the Boston map being the prime example (which they later distanced themselves from, kinda).

But of course, look into this yourself to make your own opinions. I'm far from an expert and if I've been factually incorrect, please let me know.

[cavalierzee]

America’s Forgotten Traitor’s and Double Agents

If these hostages are American why did they join the IDF?

I don’t consider you an American if you join to fight for a foreign nation.

Jake Shields

[anonymousdandelion]

“Dual loyalty” is feeling the heartbreak of this and also of that…

Loyalty may not be the right word. It’s dual pain, dual heartbreak, care, love. It is to hold everyone’s humanity. And it’s hard. It’s so hard to have humanity here. It’s exhausting, and it feels like time after time the world is just asking you to let go. It’s so much easier to “choose a side” – it almost doesn’t matter which side, just choose, and stick to it, and at least reduce the amount of pain you hold. At least feel part of a group and less alone in all this.

As if that’s really an option. As if we don’t understand that our pains are intertwined.

[notaplaceofhonour]

The most frustrating thing about this is that antizionists are using “don’t conflate Jews and Israel” to do exactly what “don’t conflate Jews and Israel” exists to criticize.

The entire point of that phrase, “don’t conflate Jews and Israel”, is telling people not to treat Jews with suspicion of being disloyal citizens with a hidden agenda. It’s not a denial of Israel’s Jewishness, or Jewish history & culture’s roots in Israel, or connection & solidarity between diaspora & Israeli Jews. Yet antizionists keep expecting Jews to deny all of those things, putting Jews & any claim of antisemitism under harsh scrutiny, and treating any Jews who don’t collaborate in stripping Israel (the land, the state, the people) of its Jewishness and tearing Israeli & diaspora Jews apart with suspicion of disloyalty.

In fact, the entire way these antizionists are using “Zionist” to mean “loyalty to Israel, over/against our values” is the Dual Loyalty trope.

And as if it isn’t enough for them to keep accusing Jews of Dual Loyalty, they also try to brand that Jew as “The Real Antisemite™️” by claiming the Jew they just accused of Dual Loyalty is the one actually perpetuating the Dual Loyalty trope… by having Dual Loyalty.

I also don't like the assertion that Jews are trying to conflate "criticism of Israel with antisemitism/the Israeli state with Jewishness as a whole" because you... YOU... did that first and you do it more easily than you breathe.

You interrogate every complaint of antisemitism, just to make sure it's not actually whining about someone being mean to Israel. You investigate the person's social media history to make sure they're not a Zionist. You turn around and act so enlightened and wise when you say "Right because Netanyahu wants Jewish people to think criticism of Israel is antisemitic, and he wants Jewish people to think that they have to have ties to Israel and that Israel is the only place they'll feel safe, that plays right into his hands," like you're doing this for Jewish people's benefit. Like you're not one of the people making Jews feel unsafe.

The fact of the matter is that Israel is intrinsically Jewish. By design yes. But also for the fact that it's just logically true? Most Israelis are Jewish. Most Diaspora Jews have friends and family in Israel. It's not a function of flags or national anthems. It's a function of people. Saying "Well conflating Israel with the idea of Jewishness is antisemitic," changes nothing about that. It's words with no value. It's empty air. Because what have you done to advocate for Diaspora Jewry and make them feel like they're not subordinate to Israel? What have you done to assure them that your disdain for a country that most of them have personal familial and cultural ties to is not motivated by bigotry? What have you done to include them and center their safety when advocating against Israel's policies?

Yes, the more people are antisemitic and weird about Israel to Diaspora Jews' faces, the more of them will gravitate closer to Israel. But that's not the point. The point is that if your criticisms of Israel were normal, we wouldn't have a problem. 99% of Diaspora Jews would join you. But you tell them they're not allowed to defend Israel in any context and they're not allowed to defend themselves when your "criticism" of Israel harms them. You don't want to admit that these can overlap. You just want them to silently add a rubber stamp of approval of whatever you say or they can leave.

It's clear you don't see Jews as a marginalized group. This is not how Leftists treat marginalized groups. This is how they treat the oppressor group, the dominant group. Diaspora Jews are at best an ally to Palestinian liberation. Because you don't see them as different from Israelis, you see them as the group that benefits from the oppression of Palestinians, not as a group that has nothing to do with Palestine and is historically and contemporarily marginalized by Western society, the society you live in.

And yet for all you conflate Diaspora and Israeli Jews you clearly want to keep Israel and the Diaspora divided, isolated from each other. They can't show solidarity with one another because that's (((ZIONIST COLLUSION))) and confirmation of a media controlled conspiracy or something. You want Diaspora Jews under your thumb and you want Israeli Jews dead. You're not as subtle as you think you are.

[iliveinprocrasti-nationn]

i don’t think there’s a better example of leftist antisemitism than the time i was explaining antisemitism i had personally experienced and was told “i’m sorry that upset you but also it makes sense to say that. you should read theory”

[notaplaceofhonour]

antizionist: aha see! this jew mentioned jews and israel in the same sentence! they’re conflating jews & israel! that’s zionist propaganda! that makes them one of the bad ones!

jew: “stop conflating jews and israel” is about the dual loyalty trope, in which jews are treated as inherently suspect, as if we’re operatives of israel, by nature of being jewish. what you’re doing here is exactly that—

az: no! i don’t believe all jews are suspect—just zionists! it’s not because they’re jewish; it’s because they’re connected to israel! plenty of jews are antizionists & i like them bc they hate israel!

jew: even if you label the few who happen to pass as “good ones”, by even putting jews through this test—sorting jews into “good” vs “bad” based on connections to a country, treating any jews with any tangential ties as inherently suspect, and rejecting any pushback from jews about this out-of-hand as zionist “hasbara” propaganda—in practice, what you are doing is in fact already treating jews as especially suspect by nature of being jewish, even if your theoretical reasons aren’t “they’re jewish”

jew: additionally, while you may say “i don’t hate them for being jewish, i hate them for their connection to israel” in theory, when most jews in practice say they feel connected to & care about israel & that this is an important part of what being jewish means to them—here are links to half a dozen polls from pew research to jewish orgs showing this—this overinflation of any jewish connection or identification with israel to “this person is an evil zionist pro-israel anti-palestine evil evil evil racist” is, again, in practice treating all jews with only a few very small exceptions as inherently suspect & as if they were the government of israel—which is the dual loyalty trope the phrase “don’t conflate jews with israel” exists to criticize

az: ZIONIST! >:(

az: [BLOCK]

[finelythreadedsky]

i've been reading a lot about fundamental differences between homer and tragedy and one interesting thing is the preoccupation of tragedy with the conflicts of women's loyalties to their natal and marital families, which manifests in so many tragedies putting women in situations where they are forced to choose sides in conflicts between their husbands/fathers/brothers/sons (eg medea chooses her husband over her father and brother, antigone chooses her brother over her future husband and potential children, procne chooses her sister and father over her husband and son, creusa remains dedicated to her father and his lineage instead of her husband and his). women are supposed to forge chains between men by their marriages and tragedies are so often interested in what happens to those connecting links when things go sour.

and that's just totally absent in homer, there's never any tension between icarius and odysseus or between eetion and the house of priam or between autolycus and laertes or between tyndareus and either paris or menelaus and agamemnon. most of the time either father-in-law or son-in-law is totally absent from the narrative. there's nothing that would put a woman in the position of mediating between the family she was born into and the family she married into.

but you know who in homer does experience this tension between loyalty to natal and marital families? hector. in iliad 6 andromache begs him to adopt a more defensive strategy because she and their son will be totally lost if he dies, and hector speaks of having to fight for his father's glory and his own. andromache and astyanax will suffer if hector dies well and bravely fighting for a lost cause, but priam will benefit. hector even acknowledges that after troy's fall it will be andromache who suffers most, not priam or hecuba-- for them the memory of hector's glory will be a consolation, while for her it will only be more pain. hector is torn between his father and his wife, the family he was born into and the family he has created through marriage.

[4utubing]

🧡

Source

[woman-respecter]

ok ive been keeping my mouth shut on the topic bc im a coward but it is seriously seriously concerning how many people feel comfortable gleefully being mask-off antisemites at the first possible opportunity, and even more concerning how many of said people are very popular tumblr users whose thousands and thousands of followers at best cannot recognize antisemitism and at worst condone or even encourage it. and yeah some of these people have had at least somewhat concerning politics for a while (not naming names but iykyk) but some of them have seemed mostly normal or even positioned themselves as allies to the jewish community. so uh please excuse me feeling very distrustful and scared rn

[crimeronan]

guys. okay. rubs my temples.

i have blacklisted every word u can Possibly think of to block posts i do not want to see and somehow keep seeing them. so Please know that this is not a shit-starting post. hence why it's unrebloggable. because i legitimately just want to communicate to people in my immediate sphere.

it is... Not Acceptable Or Appropriate... to make/reblog posts referring to a collective of "jews" or "jewish people" in response to israel's genocide of palestine.

what i mean by this are posts along the lines of "what jews don't realize is-" "i wish american jews knew-" "can't wait to watch jewish bloggers come up with the worst takes imaginable-" etc etc etc.

it is similarly Not Acceptable Or Appropriate to refer to rabbis, synagogues, jewish practice, and other aspects of judaism/jewish culture as a monolithic hivemind that's loyal to israel. this includes "you're all being brainwashed by your rabbis/synagogues" "synagogues are zionist institutions" "stop speaking hebrew until your people stop committing war crimes" etc etc etc.

your kneejerk reaction (if u are a leftist goy) will likely be along the lines of: but it's simply like referring to a collective of british people or american people wrt imperialism, colonialism, and war crimes. you don't mean LITERALLY all jews, just like you don't mean literally all brits or americans.

this is unfortunately a false equivalence because of the antisemitic history and violence behind the idea of Monolithic Jews and Dual Loyalties. there is a quick overview of some of The Problems here; jewish scholarship and discussion of this is incredibly broad and varied... because jewish people are incredibly broad and varied.

like i'm fucking begging. you have Got to knock it off. i was gonna say something snide about how it's telling that i'm seeing a lot more posts About The Jews than about the fundamentalist christians who fanatically support israel's right-wing fascist govt, but like.... god i don't care i don't care i don't want to be writing this. It Just Sucks.

That's It. It Just Sucks

while i'm here, since i don't plan to talk about this anymore unless i have important resources to share: ACTUAL helpful things you can do are to keep an eye on the news and communicate with your own governments. for americans (just bc i am american) -- the biden administration has pledged to work with israel to allow humanitarian aid into gaza. it's important that the public pressure for that to happen continues & that the documentation of what's happening in palestine continues.

the more you guys turn your issue into an issue with "the jews" or "jewish people," the more time we're going to waste explaining why this is not acceptable or appropriate. which is frustrating because there is shit out there that Matters A Whole Lot Fucking More Right Now.

so keep talking about what matters. and please please PLEASE think for two seconds before you make any posts referencing jewish people.

[focaccia-nose]

This comment on one of my recent posts pretty much sums up what I am going through as an american Jew.

My post was about the pain I have experienced navigating within my community and in leftist circles. It was about how I feel unsafe and hurt by people I thought were close to me. It was about how the escapism I was using to cope is being infiltrated by antisemitic rhetoric.

I was at a house show the evening of October 7th and people in my small leftist town CHEERED for the murder and rape of people like me. How am I supposed to feel safe knowing that lives like mine are considered disposable? That nobody would have cared if I was gunned down at a music festival, just because citizens in Gaza have it worse. That doesn't cancel out the fact that Jewish people everywhere are struggling. Just because it's not as bad as being in a war zone, doesn't mean that it's not real.

It's been said so many times that many things can be simultaneously true that I want to tear my hair out.

This is the ultimate gaslighting and so reductionist that I don't even know how to where to begin. The idea that we all lived together peacefully before Israel was established is bullshit.

If your response to suffering is to invalidate their lived experiences, make fun of them, put words in their mouth, or accuse them of faking it, you are fucked in the head.

Propaganda is working on you.

[roughentumble]

okay thots on this. do we think jaskier is going to have to kill radovid? as like the conclusion to that whole love affair

[edenfenixblogs]

I so appreciate everyone being respectful here. I have to say though, @thisgingerhasnosoul is 100% correct.

If you are feeling like your criticism of Israel is somehow being unfairly accused of antisemitism, then you are likely unaware of the biases you are bringing to that criticism.

Because criticizing the Israeli government or its military policies or its treatment of Palestinians is not inherently antisemitic. But there are several categories of criticisms which are in fact based entirely on antisemitic foundations and assumptions. It’s important as an ally for peace that you learn what those are and stop engaging in them.

I want to address this element of your post specifically.

I do understand why you feel the way that you do. It can be hard to confront something this deeply engrained, especially when people are constantly critiquing you about it. But here’s the thing:

The default instinct that you have to take criticism from Jewish people with “way more salt than you want to” is fundamentally antisemitic. It feels bad to you because you know it’s wrong.

And if you are truly examining your own biases, then you need to examine this instinct as well and to assume why you thought it was ok in the first place.

If you are seeing that a certain kind criticism is being met with extremely distressed reactions from a wide swath of Jews (not Israelis, not IDF soldiers, not “Zionists”), and your instinct is to assume that all of these Jews are “weaponizing antisemitic accusations” rather than trying desperately to point out something antisemitic about the way these criticism of Israeli institutions and military actions are occurring — that is a red flag that you are being blinded by something antisemitic that is obscuring your judgment on this topic.

“Believing victims when they are being victimized” is a statement that does not stop being true when it challenges your own thought processes.

The proper thing to do here would be to reach out to a Jewish person who has been vocally willing to help explain and educate about the Jewish experience of antisemitism and the history the antisemitic tropes, stereotypes, conspiracies, and thought patterns in which you might be engaging. I have repeatedly offered my inbox for this purpose to you and anyone else who is willing to learn and engage in good faith. I highly encourage you to take me or others up on these offers before making a post like this in the future. I very likely could have given insight that rendered it unnecessary.

And among the many types of deeply engrained antisemitism displayed in your initial post, for example, are the underlying assumptions that all Jews have dual loyalty to Israel and are therefore motivated by that dual loyalty to defend Israel and its military actions regardless of where the Jews criticizing you are from or any of their other beliefs. And that was not the only form of antisemitism you engaged in with your post and with your thought process behind making it.

I know you are actively deconstructing. I’ve told you before several times that I understand it is a journey. I know you will not be perfect on that journey. We all make mistakes as we learn, and I’m no exception to that either. It’s a wildly complex crisis steeped in one of the most engrained forms of systemic bigotry that has ever existed. All that matters on tour journey is that you keep trying and improving. This was a misstep. It’s not unfixable, so long as you are willing to keep your mind and heart open and continue to examine how your thoughts, words, and actions both cause and further harm to the Jewish community worldwide.

My ask box and messages remain open to you. I encourage you to use them for good faith discussions on such topics.

I would also politely ask you to engage with me or fellow Jews who have put themselves out there as community educators on topics like this before making posts like this in the future. There’s likely something about the critiques you’re seeing that you cannot understand due to antisemitic thought processes you did not even know you had.

@stephobrien I would hope that our past conversations as well as my continuous pro-Palestine stance would be strong enough evidence that I am being genuine here. I hope you know that I am telling the truth with no ulterior motive. My only goals are to keep Jews safe and to help the lovely goyim willing to interrogate their own biases understand antisemitism and how it works.

One thing that bothers me about the weaponization of antisemitism accusations by the Israeli government and its allies is how it messes with my ability to follow one of the most basic tenets of anti-bigotry: believe victims when they say they're being victimized.

I'm not a Jew. I don't have day-to-day experience with antisemitism. So while I can do my best to use critical thinking and research as a substitute, I will never be as qualified as an actual Jew to say what is and isn't antisemitism.

So when a Jew says they're being targeted with antisemitic hate, I'd rather be able to just believe them.

But with the way accusations of antisemitism are getting thrown at pretty much anyone who criticizes the Israeli army and authorities, I have to take such claims with more salt than I want to, unless the antisemitism is obvious even to a goy. And I hate that.

Fuck Netanyahu and his sycophants for this and SO MANY other things.

[liesmyth]

that one post I rb'd earlier about France and laicité and Macron celebrating Chanukah is still making me made just thinking about it. That came in the same week as Masha Gessen being almost stripped of the Hannah Arendt prize because they wrote an essay about Gaza (incidentally, Gessen is Jewish). I'm just really, massively tired of the current climate in Western Europe where political and civil authorities pay lip service to diversity and pluralism but actually actively suppress diverse voices. Case in point, lots of framing Judaism = Israel while actively making life harder for their Jewish communities.

I'm not eloquent enough to word this properly, but it's infuriating to witness. It's not a new attitude by any means, but it's rooted in racism and xenophobia and I hate that it's getting so much fresh mileage lately. I wish more people (& local press) called it out for what it is.

[fromchaostocosmos]

Wow they really can not come up anything new. It is the same antisemitic conspiracies and accusations recycled over and over.

[beliscary]

admitting to yourself the 5k you have is not nearly enough and you'll need like another 20k. at least🕺