#Donny Cates's Venom

[vertigoartgore]

2018's Venom Vol.4 #7 (LGY : #172) cover by artist Ryan Stegman, inker JP Mayer and colorist Frank Martin.

[farsight-the-char]

Yeah that tracks.

[oroontheheels]

Eddie Brock didn’t have morning sickness and painful contractions for people to claim “he is not a father to Sleeper”.

Disrespect is maddening.

[peterbscaprisweatpants]

says a lot that this is from one of the less overtly romantic venom runs

[Image description: 4 screen caps show a segment from Venom (2018) #11. All four have a plain, white background. The first shows the Venom symbiote on the viewer's left, outside a host body. The viewer's right shows speech bubbles from an out-of-frame Eddie. The dialogue reads:

Eddie: I THOUGHT WE WERE BEYOND THIS."

Venom symbiote: "EDDIE..."

Eddie: "I THOUGHT..."

The second screen cap shows the host-free venom symbiote reaching a tendril towards the out-of-frame Eddie. The third shows a close up of the symbiote's tendril, reaching for Eddie's outstretched hand, just centimetres away from Eddie's fingertips. The symbiote's dialogue reads: "IT...IT WAS THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE YOU STAY... YOU HAD TO NEED US." The fourth screen cap shows just Eddie from the side, kneeling on one knee, head down in anguish, left arm resting on his knee while the right arm reaches toward the symbiote, who's now out of frame. Eddie's dialogue reads, "...I THOUGHT YOU LOVED ME." End image description.]

[vulpinesaint]

tom hardy baby i’m so fucking sorry. i just know you had something beautiful in your heart and they tore it apart

[absencesrepetees]

the maker in venom #10-12 (donny cates/ryan stegman, joshua cassara, 2019) + absolute carnage #1 (donny cates/ryan stegman, 2019)

[transrightsjimin]

i LOVE that the symbiote made little steps for dylan btw that's so cute! idk how i missed that the first time

[lady-in-the-lair]

Hii after tld I am trying to read the comics but I don’t know where to start, can you recommend me anything pls:3

Thanks for asking! Here are the most symbrocky of the comics. There are other good Venom comics, but this is where I'd start to fill in everything the movie left out:

“The Hunger” 1996 -- that's where I got my Tumblr banner image from. The most symbrock of any of the comics, in my opinion, even without saying anything outright. It explores the bond between Eddie and Symby and has a uniquely dark, eerie tone without going overboard on the edgelordness. I bought the whole volume it's collected in just for that storyline.

Mike Costa run, starting at issue #5 (the first four issues feature Symby getting abused by its host to the point that it regresses and is unable to speak properly. Eddie only shows up in Issues #5). I'm still unclear on why Eddie asked Liz Allen out other than to no homo a run full of "my love," "my darling," and literally giving birth together...clearly, it did not work.

"First Host" -- the Mike Costa extra featuring the symbrock baby, Sleeper.

Marvel Presents #5 (2019)  -- It's a collection of Marvel stories, one of which features Eddie and Symby getting intimate. I have mixed feelings about choices made in part of the comic, and the art is terrible, but the actual intimacy is great! Also, it's barely PG-13, it's all implied and more psychological than anything else and inspired me to write a fic, it was so validating.

For non-specifically symbrock content after the cut!

David Michelinie wrote some great general Venom stories I recommend checking out. Even without overt symbrock (which is just one aspect of the characters!), and the absence of Symby's voice, you feel like he gets the characters and his writing isn't all doom-and-gloom.

"Venom: Seed of Darkness" (Len Kaminski, who also has good content) -- Not symbrock; this takes place while Eddie is still a reporter, but it shows how and why he'd bond so closely with Symby even without their mutual hatred of Spider-Man. Everyone is afraid of the alien monster he's reporting on; he's fascinated and even sympathetic iir.

Carnage (2015) -- It's dark and spooky and while it features Eddie, he's bonded to a different symbiote and the symbiotes are not the focus of the story. I like it for the Lovecraftian elements and characterization of Eddie, who seems more like himself than in other recent comics--a bit of a himbo, trying to do the right thing, loves kids, and is generally respectful of women (bunch of female characters in this one).

I also like the Agent Venom comics, though Eddie only briefly appears and Symby is bonded with Flash Thompson, the soldier who lost his legs in the movie. Those are just generally solid action comics with some character development for Flash.

I do not personally recommend the other pre-Costa 2000s Venom comics, as they mostly feature Eddie and Symby hating each other to various extremes and being generally very OOC. This is the era when Venom got dark and edgy and weird in a bad way, with Eddie going off the rails and Symby having a variety of awful hosts. Some good stuff to cherry pick, like Symby still loving Eddie when it sees him in that Anti-Venom getup, but generally bad, bad, bad imo.

I'm only current as of the beginning of Donny Cates's run, as I didn't like where he was going with it and the Look How Dark and Edgy This Is of it all. He also was disrespectful to fans who shipped symbrock (despite it being canon in the Costa run) and tried to no homo it...by having them co-raise a son and having Symby tell Eddie "I love you." Whatever he intended, he clearly backed away from the symbrock so hard he bumped into himself. All that being said, he does explore what Eddie and Symby mean to each other and packs in some good grieving from Eddie when he loses Symby (....who is a dog at the beginning of the run...)

Still, I'm sure there's a lot to like in there even if his dismissal of fans and worship by dudebros has always left a bad taste in my mouth and I stopped reading relatively soon.

I'd avoid Venom: The Madness, too. Hate that one!

Something to be aware of is that both Eddie and the symbiote are very different in the comics than they are in the movie! It varies from writer to writer, but Symby isn't as vocal and sassy and Eddie is just a different character with certain constants that didn't make it into the movie much--a difficult childhood with a distant father, loves kids, uses big words, Catholic, bodybuilder, generally respectful of women (okay that might just be my opinion after reading a lot of comics and cherry-picking the series I like--do not read Venom: The Madness!), and wants to protect innocents, his defining trait.

[moonesaiky]

No Cates, I don't know if you ship Symbrock or not, ANSWER ME, DO YOU SHIP OR NOT?

[feathers-and-cigarettes]

Cackling about Sony choosing to retcon Donny Cates’ shit ass run and taking the one good idea he has ever had and putting it into a romcom.

[vertigoartgore]

2018's Venom Vol.4 #1 (LGY : #166) cover by artist Ryan Stegman & colorist Frank Martin Jr.

[nickfuryagentofsword]

King in Black 1 (2021) by Donny Cates & Ryan Stegman

Cover: Philip Tan (variant)

King in Black

[oroontheheels]

3 types of Venom authors:

1. SPIDER MAN WAS T H E MOST IMPORTANT THING IN VENOM SYMBIOTE LIFE!! NOTHING ELSE EVEN BEGING TO COMPARE TO HOLY PETER!!

2. Flash Thompson was the one who taught Venom symbiote what is right and what is wrong. Without his influence Venom would’ve been evil, immoral creature!!

3. Eddie Brock is love of symbiote life. Also feeling’s mutual. They both have their ups and down, their needs and desires, but they can always work it trough to keep their bond strong.

[samasmith23]

Diving into The Abyss arc of Donny Cates' Venom!

I'm currently marathoning Donny Cates' Venom run in the "Venomnibus by Cates & Stegman" that I got as a birthday present this year. I re-read "The Abyss" arc published in Venom (2018) #9-12 just a few nights ago (which was the last arc from the run that I originally read back in 2019), and holy FREAKING crap... I had honestly forgotten just how effectively heavy and powerful this arc truly was!

When I first read this storyline back in 2019, it completely blew me away with its sheer amount of shocking twists and revelations, ranging from the backstory of a teenage Eddie Brock being involved in a drunk driving accident in which he ran over and killed a kid, but ultimately got off despite wanting to plead guilty due to Eddie's abusive father Carl Brock violently forcing him to plead innocent, to the revelation that his older sister Mary Brock and past experiences with cancer were actually false memories implanted by the symbiote in order to manipulate Eddie into staying with it, to the fact that he has a son named Dylan Brock who was accidentally conceived during that brief time his ex-wife Anne Weying bonded with Eddie's symbiote and briefly became "She-Venom" during the 90s miniseries Venom: Sinner Takes All.

But re-reading the story now I can look back and greatly appreciate the sheer amount of craft that's on display with Cates' writing in this arc, since he carefully foreshadows all of these plot twists all throughout the arc through subtle hints and double-meanings in the character's dialogue. Aside from the brilliant narrative subversion of fooling the reader into initially believing that Eddie is the kid who's run-over in the flashbacks before pulling to rug to reveal that in actuality Eddie was the one behind the wheel, the twist that Eddie's sister was simply a false memory was expertly foreshadowed through both Carl & Dylan being absolutely confused whenever Eddie mentioned the name "Mary."

Another that I really love about the drunk-driving backstory is how it not only recontextualizes Eddie’s motivations as both an anti-hero and as a supervillain. In regards to his anti-hero persona, Eddie's constant proclamations about wanting to "protect the innocent" were rather ill-defined back when the character received over a dozen miniseries' during the 90s. But here Cates' emphasizes how Eddie's guilt over accidentally killing a kid and being let off due to being manipulated by his abusive father has made him want to try to protect "real innocents" from people like himself. but also during his time as a villain pursuing Spider-Man. As for how this backstory recontextualizes Eddie's tenure as a Spider-Man villain, during in the original David Micheline era in which Venom first debuted, Eddie’s hatred for Spidey was connected to the classic Death of Jean DeWolfe storyline, wherein Eddie wrote a series of interviews for the Daily Globe with a man he believed to be the notorious serial killer, “the Sin Eater,” whilst hiding the killer’s true identity under the guise of “first amendment rights and protecting his journalistic source.” But Eddie was eventually forced to reveal his source’s identity due to mounting police pressure and the Sin Eater’s rising body-count, which led to Eddie outing the Sin Eater as Emil Gregg. But literally 30-minutes later it was revealed that Gregg was just a copycat, as Spidey caught the real Sin Eater who turned out to be policeman Stan Carter, which led to Eddie being fired and refusing to take responsibility for his own failures by projecting the blame onto Spider-Man. Additionally, the Micheline's Venom: Lethal Protector & Zeb Wells' Venom: Dark Origin miniseries highlighted how Eddie’s relationship with his estranged father partially influenced his writing of the Sin Eater interviews in an effort to bolster his reputation, but following his firing permanently destroyed any chances of reconciliation with Carl Brock.

And in those classic stories Eddie constantly proclaimed that he was “once an innocent whose life Spider-Man ruined,” even though his actions as a journalist were incredibly morally dubious and unethical. So the drunk driving backstory of Eddie being violently forced to plead innocent by his father and ultimately getting off? That only further fleshes out Eddie’s inability to accept responsibility and false projection of “innocence” onto himself during his villainous phase in those original stories, while also showing how much Eddie has grown since then by acknowledging that he’s not a “real innocent.”

Plus, there's also a strong thematic through-line in this arc about the nature of abusive relationships in the form of Eddie's co-dependent bond with the Venom Symbiote plus Carl's abusive behavior towards Eddie in the past & Dylan in the present day. Additionally, Cates also touches upon ideas of self-improvement and redemption, not only through the backstory of Eddie's motivation to "protect the innocent," but also through the story ending with Eddie deciding to raise Dylan himself after helping him escape Carl's influence, as well as the Venom symbiote willingly leaving Eddie & Dylan after the former denounces the symbiote's manipulative behavior, with the symbiote proclaiming that it's, "Trying... to... be... better... both... of... you... better... without... me..."

It shows that the key difference between Carl and both Eddie & the symbiote is that Venom at least acknowledges his past monstrous behavior and makes efforts to change unlike his coward of a father, thereby simultaneously allowing Eddie to overcome the demons of his past with his abusive father, as well as making the symbiote's later reunion with Eddie in Absolute Carnage more believable!

Like... hot dang! There's a reason why "The Abyss" arc in particular left such a lasting impression on me when I initially read the first 12-issues of Donny Cates' Venom series a few years ago! Not only does it still hold up phenomenally well from both a narrative and thematic standpoint, but it's gotten me even more excited to dive into the rest of Cates' Venom run and the corresponding Absolute Carnage and King In Black events, which will be my first time ever reading those stories!

However, I do have some thoughts regarding two minor points of contention about Cates' run as a whole and "The Abyss" arc in particular that I've encountered from toxic fandom spaces here on Tumblr that I also wanted to address, which I'll link to right here:

[url-is-url]

Artemisia: why do you think the bad guy is doing bad guy things?

The revenant: I don't know, you're the one with the meat brain, you'd know better than me

Artemisia, autistic: Are You Sure About That

[venomized]

they were deadass raising dylan together like a married couple are you kidding me. venom scolding eddie for working too hard??? pls

venom (2018) #200