#Do prophets make mistakes LDS perspective

[mindfulldsliving]

Exploring Prophets, Faith, and Obedience: A Latter-day Saint Take on Heber C. Kimball and Michelle Grim's Critique

In the rich teachings of Latter-day Saints, the messages from prophets hold profound significance. Heber C. Kimball, in the Journal of Discourses, emphasized the importance of following prophetic guidance as an expression of our faith and obedience. This perspective, however, faces scrutiny from voices like Michelle Grim, who offers a critical view of Kimball’s teachings. In a recent blog post…

[randomthoughtsrandomdude]

HonesTEA time! (Notice how this isn't a Hot Take Wednesday post.)

I'm going to state a few facts that led me to my conclusion, and then I'll share the HonesTEA. (Please note: HonesTEA is made from observations that have been steeping in my brain, but as it contains no actual "tea", it is not in violation of the Word of Wisdom)

Prep time: About 20 years for me to gather everything, but assembly only took about 2-3 weeks.

Yield: Quite large, so pace yourself or risk getting overwhelmed.

For this HonesTEA, you'll need the following facts:

- The only perfect person to walk the earth, in the history of ever, is Jesus Christ

- God the Father, and his Son have knowledge and power that is eternal and all-encompassing.

- They have only ever had imperfect people to work with to share the gospel and change the world.

- Man's knowledge is still growing, and thus not all-encompassing.

- Joseph Smith, a single man, was given revelation to change the world.

- Each individual on Earth is entitled to their own personal revelation that they can use to help those within their responsibility (eg. fathers for their families, leaders for their congregations, etc).

- Using the knowledge he was given, Joseph Smith was able to share his vision with others and establish the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

- The purpose of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is to bring others closer to Christ through obedience to His laws and ordinances.

- The Church is led through continuing revelation, and we believe there is still much to be revealed before Christ comes again.

- The prophets and apostles, though led by God, are still men, and thus imperfect. They aren't heathens, but they can make mistakes just like you and me.

- When a person makes a mistake, or sins, the expected next steps is to admit the mistake and then take actions to make right what was wronged.

Now for the recipe:

- The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is, as most people would consider, a good organization. The intention that all mankind can know their Creator and Heavenly Parents, and establish a relationship with Them that results in a desire to live with Them again is inherently good. 200 years ago, a young man with a question about how to move forward with his life started the ball rolling to bring us to the Church as it stands today. The trail has not been smooth or steady, but things have definitely come a long way.

- Throughout those years, due to the imperfect nature of man, there have been mistakes. There have been policies enacted and revoked, statements made and then rejected. This is not unusual, because again, man is imperfect.

- Some of these actions/policies/statements originally claim to have been inspired.

- When they are later renounced, that also comes through the claim of having been inspired.

Now here's where things might get lumpy, so pay careful attention:

- We (LDS general membership) believe that God is no respecter of persons, and that all are alike unto Him, both male and female, bond and free; because of this, there's nothing He does to actively bar anyone from coming unto Him.

- From 1830-1852 there were no bars to who was received into the church, and allowed full access to the blessings and ordinances of the Gospel.

- In 1852, the policy to restrict priesthood ordination was put into place, with no explanation that still stands today as a reasonable excuse for it to have been put into place. This policy also restricted black members from ordinances beyond baptism. Elijah Abel, a man who had received the priesthood before the ban, petitioned to receive his endowment in 1879 and was denied. Jane Manning James asked to be able to perform ordinances for her ancestors and was only allowed to do baptisms for the dead, and nothing more.

- In the min-1900's (nearly 100 years later, for those who are counting), clarification was made that the restriction was solely for men of black African descent. Other dark-skinned races, such as Fijians, Pacific Islanders, and Australian Aborigines had no such restrictions.

- Changes didn't seem possible until the question of how the charge to "go ye therefore, and teach all nations" could be fulfilled with the policy of exclusion in place.

- It wasn't until Church leaders were faced with the fact that they were asking members to build temples that they would later not be able to enter that there seems to have actually been a serious supplication with the Lord about what to do.

- June-September, 1978 (136-ish years for those who are counting). President Kimball receives the revelation to rescind the ban, and over the next few months it is unanimously received by the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, the other General Authorities, and eventually the general membership in attendance at 148th Semiannual General Conference.

- Now, in a Gospel Topics essay (published in 2013), it states "Today, the Church disavows the theories advanced in the past that black skin is a sign of divine disfavour or curse, or that it reflects unrighteous actions in a premortal life; that mixed-race marriages are a sin; or that blacks or people of any other race or ethnicity are inferior in any way to anyone else. Church leaders today unequivocally condemn all racism, past and present, in any form" (footnote here references a talk from President Hinkley April 2006).

- This is good. This is very good. So why did the publication of the Come, Follow Me book (copyright 2020) intended to help families and children include a section about 2 Nephi 5 that was *very racist*?

- Granted, once this was pointed out, the online version was quickly updated and a statement was made by Irene Caso (a Church spokeswoman) about the error. (I can only find this statement in the article published by the Salt Lake Tribune, it doesn't seem to be anywhere on the Church's website)

Once you've let that steep for a good hour or two, let's proceed:

- How is any of this explained in a way that doesn't include racism?

- I *refuse* to believe that God is racist.

- Don't blame God for the shortcomings/mistakes of man. (Article of Faith 2, anyone?)

- I hope whoever was put in charge of that section of Come Follow Me was suspended, possibly even fired. I honestly do. And probably whoever their quality-checker was.

- Because you know. You KNOW. That the Church isn't some small-town publishing company. You would *expect* there to be multiple quality checks before a World-Wide MANUAL is sent out TO THE ENTIRE WORLD.

- (side-note here as I am monolingual, I don't know if this was also translated into other languages. BUT IF IT WAS HOW WAS IT NOT CAUGHT?)

- (second side-note, if you do some research on blackness in the Topical Guide, you'll come across Joel 2:6, which in its footnote states that blackness is a Hebrew idiom for gloom. Take that nugget and apply it to the Hebrew-influenced Nephi's journal [also known as 1st and 2nd Nephi] and enjoy some new perspective)

- I'm fortunate enough that I'm not seeing blatant racism posted across my social media, but if it can make it into the Church's manual, then it is in the Church.

- With the world in the climate it's currently in, I would looooove to see some tangible, solid evidence behind the Church's claim to "unequivocally condemn all racism".

- Maybe it's through revoking temple access? Maybe it's through being unable to take the Sacrament? Whatever it is, there's some serious application of repentance that's needed.

- In any case, there are some Major Misdeeds done to our POC brothers and sisters, and the leadership of the Church has been alive for most of the reparation process (Ulisses Soares would've been ~18 at the time of the ban being removed.).

- But we're 42 years into it, and we still have so much more to do.

- All is not well in Zion.

- And I don't care what your calling in the Church is.

- If you're racist, you are preventing yourself from receiving the revelation necessary to help those who are looking up to you for guidance.

- And you need to fix that.

Now let it cool and enjoy! The HonesTEA pairs nicely with thoughtful acts of service, or with meaningful discussion, and is safe to share with your electronic friends! Leftovers never expire, so you can enjoy HonesTEA whenever you want!

[gay-mormon-wizard]

Saw that you went on a date with a girl! That's awesome and brave!! I'm bi and lds too and sometimes I'll dream about dating girls but I don't want to be sinning if I explore that side of my sexuality😅and there's church leaders being like "REPENT YE" to worry about too cuz I'm out to like 3 ppl lol i guess i want to know if you think it's worth all the stress of ppl condemning you and stuff like that❤❤

hey sorry I took like a month to answer this, I kept thinking "I have to write a really good and eloquent answer for this sweet anon" and then i never did so this is gonna sound like it was written by a college student at midnight on 4 hrs of sleep, 300 milligrams of caffeine, and 3 bars of chocolate, who has just spent 7 hours watching documentaries

So I've definitely been where you are, afraid to date girls because of fear of sinning! But the way I see it, our church's current stance on LGBT topics is basec on a few mistranslated Bible verses. Once you get those out of the way, you actually see several scripture stories that hint support for same-sex relationships, and the entire foundation for the "homosexual behavior is a sin" stance falls apart.

I believe that our church leaders are prophets, but the definition of a prophet is not "perfect person who can't lead the church astray." Bruce R. McConkie said, “Prophets are men and they make mistakes. Sometimes they err in doctrine. This is one of the reasons the Lord has given us the Standard Works. They become the standards and rules that govern where doctrine and philosophy are concerned. If this were not so, we would believe one thing when one man was president of the Church and another thing in the days of his successors. Truth is eternal and does not vary… I do not know all of the providences of the Lord, but I do know that He permits false doctrine to be taught in and out of the Church and that such teaching is part of the sifting process of mortality.”

My testimony of the Restored Gospel does not need church leaders and doctrine to be perfect on every topic right now. I believe in the Book of Mormon, in the restoration of the Gospel in the latter days, and everything else in the Articles of Faith. I love the way all Church members are connected through a common history, heritage, and central belief system, how no matter where you go in the world, the other Latter Day Saints around you are your family.

I can't speak for all LGBT members bc the only life I can live is my own, and I know that some have different circumstances and maybe aren't as safe using their voice. But for me, personally, it's been worth it to come out and be open about my identity. I've faced backlash from members and received shaming and humiliation from a bishop, and it wounded me deeply, but at the end of the day I've never regretted speaking up. I have unique experiences and perspectives. Straight church members, even if they don't know it yet, need to hear what I have to say. Other queer Church members need to know that they're not alone, that there's someone in their corner who can empathize with what they're going through.

And I know I can't make a big difference. I know that as a bisexual I have the privilege of being able to have a temple marriage and of being seen as "only HALF gay" by straight Church members. But I believe that if I can make any difference at all, it's my moral duty to make it.

I hope that you find the courage within yourself to live authentically, whatever that means to you! Know that our Heavenly Parents love you and created you the way They wanted you to be.

[sharionpage]

Musings of a May-December Hopeful Romantic

CW: Mothers favored in the LDS Church/Women’s worth tied in with child-bearing

Last week, Russell M. Nelson became the new Prophet of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. His wife, Dr. Wendy Watson Nelson is an accomplished writer and former professor of Marriage and Family Therapy at BYU. The two married, and were eternally sealed in the Salt Lake Temple in 2006, just two years before my husband and I got married. We and the Nelsons share one thing in common – a 26 year age difference. Similar to my situation, this was her first marriage, while this was certainly not his.

I too, know what it is like to have advanced degrees and no husband. I used to joke that I had walked down the aisle more times than the average woman – wearing a cap and gown (I’m working on a PhD; so hopefully, I’ll be walking down the aisle one final time)! I finally got married in my late 20’s, so I can’t imagine being in my 50’s and not having found “the one,” as Sister Nelson did. Also like her, I will probably never have children. It’s just not going to happen, barring of course, the Immaculate Conception, which as Mormons, we all know is false doctrine anyway.

Marrying a man 26 years my senior was not exactly my plan, but my husband and I love each other very much and have been together now for twelve years. We celebrate ten years of marriage this September. The most difficult part of our marriage has been the misunderstandings it has created, along with the rejection that accompanies it – mostly from family. My family has accepted him – for the most part, but his side is a different story.

If I could talk with Sister Nelson, I would ask her questions, such as how she relates to his “children” that are close to her age (or older!)? What do they consider her? – I’m sure they don’t call her “Mom” but she’s not exactly their “step-sister” either. Furthermore, how does she relate to his grandchildren (and great-grandchildren, in his case!), considering she has never had children herself? Do they call her Aunt Wendy? These are the types of questions that plague me every day in my own marriage. How does it feel not having living Parents-in-Law? I’m sure for many women it would be a blessing in disguise to not have a Mother-in-Law, but for me it hurts not having heard the words “Welcome to the Family” from anyone other than my husband. It’s a rather lonely place to be in and makes holidays difficult when you can’t have a real sense of extended family. In my case, I was looking forward to marrying into a whole new family, but sadly, it’s just not there.

As a Mormon, there is the issue of eternal sealing – the proverbial “elephant” in the room nobody wants to talk about. Since President Nelson is widowed, he is now eternally married to more than one wife, which in a technical sense means he’s in a plural marriage. His wife has to deal with this issue too, by default; but at the same time, I would imagine she understood that when she married him. As a Mormon convert, this is also a worry of mine. I do have the advantage of my husband being a non-member, but given the rules, I worry that somebody will come along 110 years later and ruin my celestial honeymoon with an extra sealing.

But there is more. Given the statement made last week by President Nelson concerning a woman’s purpose being tied in with child-bearing, if you think about it, is he really practicing what he preaches? Unless his wife gives birth in the Celestial Kingdom, she will not be giving him children. I wonder how this makes her feel to hear her husband – the Prophet – say something like that! There has to be some cognitive dissonance there, in addition to feelings of failure in this mortal life. I understand, because I deal with these same feelings of inadequacy every time I go to church.

There is yet another aspect of this story to consider, and this, in my opinion, has to count for something in the eternal scheme of things. I’ll admit when I got married just shy of 29, I felt like the “Old Maid” in the card game I used to play. I waited an eternity for my husband, at least from my perspective. But I could not imagine being an accomplished marriage and family therapist and having to wait until my 50’s to get married – and being Mormon! However, it would seem to me that in the end, Dr. Nelson got the prize. Not only did she find the man I’m sure she prayed for all those years, but now she is the wife of the Prophet! I believe she waited for God’s timing, and for that she was rewarded greatly. She is now in a place to be an inspiration to Mormon women everywhere – she is what I would call a church “Matriarch” in the truest sense with a lot of influence.

While I will never be wife of the Prophet – or even wife of a “Priesthood Holder” (thank goodness!), my husband and I have shared our own uniquely profound spiritual experiences (some of which I have shared in previous posts). I believe many of these experiences occur due to his noteworthy Hebrew lineage, of which I personally don’t share. For me, being the lowly “Ephraimite” I am – and an ex-Baptist, at that – I’m not quite sure what I did to deserve these spiritual experiences, but I am thankful for them. Every day.

While my prayers for a “goodly” husband were honored, some days the loneliness and disconnect we feel in our marriage is so unbearable, at least it is for me. And yet, we still have each other. Between the two of us, there is a lot of love there. I ask myself all the time why I just can’t be happy with that? I often wonder if I made some kind of compromise in the Pre-existence in order to be able to share in these spiritual experiences with him? I guess I will never know. That said, I am so thankful for my knowledge of my Mother in Heaven, and nobody can ever take that away from me. I should be thankful every day and not “wallow” in self pity. But how many of us, if we are honest with ourselves, have dwelled in self pity due to feeling misunderstood, even in the midst of our many blessings? It is sometimes difficult to see our own blessings when they are different from the blessings of those around us.

But that proves my point. We never know God’s plan, and God’s ways are not our ways. I believe the same goes for the Church and our unrealistic expectations towards other members who do not fit our preconceived notions of “worthiness.” I recently had an experience where I wrongfully judged someone who is not a member of our church – and the Holy Ghost let me know it in a very real way. At the same time, I have felt misunderstood many times over by church members and non-church members alike. We need to forgive and try our best to move on. Nobody is perfect; everyone makes mistakes. Each situation is different, and in the end, our Heavenly Parents are the only ones who have the divine right to judge.

That said, I’m convinced LDS May-December romances can be a beautiful, eternal mess, but now my husband and I have an example within the Church leadership to look up to. I no longer need to be ashamed of my own circumstances at church because the Prophet’s wife is in a very similar situation to that of mine. This for me is a great comfort. While I understand many progressive Mormons were upset on the day Nelson was installed, I had my own personal reasons for rejoicing. This does not mean I support everything President Nelson stands for – I most certainly do not! – but it means that I have hope that my own eternal mess of a marriage can be blessed by our Heavenly Parents in a very special way.

    Musings of a May-December Hopeful Romantic published first on https://bitspiritspace.tumblr.com/