#Denial Queen yass

[cooliogirl101]

In wtl Exe AU, what are Ichigo thoughts on the whole thing. Actually. What are shinju thoughts on the whole Aizen Momo thing.

Ichigo is…really, really glad he never got into the whole romance thing, if that’s an example of how it could turn out. He also thinks Momo has really shit taste in men and doesn’t hesitate to let both of them know he thinks Momo could do better.

Which also pisses Momo off because excuse you, does he think she chose to be stuck at the side of the world’s most egotistical asshole for half a century?? She’s a victim!!

Shinji likes Momo, he really does, he thinks she’s got spunk and fire and he truly respects what she’s done for Squad 5, but does she have to keep broadcasting to his former lieutenant how much she prefers Shinji over him? It was bad enough when Sousuke was just a vicious, petty bastard, the last thing Shinji wants is for him to turn into a jealous, vicious, petty bastard.

[fedonciadale]

Hello! I wanted to ask you, when do you think D&D realized/were told that Dany wasn’t the hero? I believe that, even if the early seasons are littered with hints and dark!Dany moments, D&D were in denial, or maybe they dismissed those scenes, or cheered on with a “yass kween” like Dany stans. They even cut her darkest book moments, like profiting from slavery, having little girls tortured, possibly raped, they erased controversial moments like when she slapped her slaves, whipped her dragons to tame them (maybe the Mother of Dragons whipping her children would look bad to the GA), took advantage of Irri...and the list goes on and on. My theory is that they really thought she was going to be the hero of the story, until maybe Martin told them otherwise at some point later in the seasons. And that extends to king Bran as well, because if they knew from the beginning, why would they cut him out like that? He wasn’t even in season 5! And they absolutely wouldn’t expect Sansa to be Queen in the North. If it was up to them, they would have given her an ending that would have made Sansabuts happy (yikes). So, D&D were forced to change direction, giving Sansa Jeyne’s storyline to have her go North faster, bringing back Bran and make him more relevant than they would have wanted, and making Dany go “crazy”, trying to justify her every action while doing so. What do you think? Did they know from the beginning, or was GRRM forced to step in?

Hi there!

This is an excellent question! @kellyvela shared their estimation about when GRRM shared his ending with D&D relatively early  “around season 3″ (here). We know that he shared his three wtf moments about the same time. Let’s say that means that they knew at least before they started filming season 4. So, you could maybe brush aside everything before that, but at least with season 4 they knew what they were doing.

I think several things come into the fact that in the end the DarkDany twist could have been done better.

For once there is the difficulty of translating a PoV to screen. How can you leave the bias, the fact that Dany is a hero in her own mind? The solution of D&D was easy in a way: Cut out the terrible things that would give away the game early. You can read about a terrible thing and brush over it and forget it, but if it is supported by visuals you’d have the problem that people will not forget. So, they did a technique that was clever (and if they had not botched season 8 it might even have gone down into filming history). They translated the PoV bias into visuals that seemed to paint Dany as the hero - filming angles, triumphant music, hero shots, cool one liners etc. and everytime Dany did something problematic it was countered by a ‘heroic’ deed immediately afterwards. At the same time their imagery (at least from season 5 onward) borrowed heavily from Leni Riefenstahl and thus painted Dany as a triumphant leader on the surface while also hinting at her decline into a tyranny. Everyone who is in the film industry knows what that imagery means. Everyone. Leni Riefenstahl and how she supported Hitler via visuals is part of standard course in film making. It is not a secret. And there is absolutely no way that D&D did not do this on purpose.

And yet people tend to be swept away by the visual effects, the music etc. I still think it was a good solution to the PoV problem.

The real problem is that they should not have tried to keep the twist for the very end. At some point in season 8 they should have committed to paint Dany as the villain. They should have not cut out the Stark PoVs to further hide the twist. At some point, the audience knows the twist is coming and still sits on the edge of their seats if it’s done well. To give an example: In the books we know the moment Cat and Robb arrive at the Twins that something horrible is going to happen. That they are going to be betrayed that it will be horrible.

They could have done that with DarkDany. Commit to it, really commit to it, let everyone know she will break bad and yet be devastated how bad she has become. Make it logical. But they could not let go of their usual pattern. Dany still had her hero moments up to episode 4. That was the mistake. Not how they did the set up but how they tied the knot in the end.

So, that’s my thought on that. And I think that they left out Bran in season 5 is partly because of this ‘hiding the twist at all cost’ as well. It might well be that they thought Bran’s arc was not exciting enough, but in addition I think they wanted to deflect the audience’s attention from Bran. Because that is their standard procedure: Hiding plot twists by leaving out important information.

Same holds true for Sansa, only they did their best to hide Sansa’s true loyalties throughout season 6 and 7 (and in part 8) so that the audience would be tricked into thinking that Sansa does not deserve a good ending. They teased Starkbowl and her rivalry with Jon and Arya until only the staunchest Sansa fans wanted here to end up on top. And we all know, how audience’s wishes play into audience’s expectations - just look at the Dany fans and their utter disbelief at Dany turning bad (although several people have said that for ages).

So, I would say that the main reason that to many Bran as King, Sansa as Queen and DarkDany came out of the deep left field was because of the standard procedure of D&D to hide plot twists, not because they learned about the ending so late.

That still leaves open the question if D&D knew that Dany would end as one of the villains, when season 1-3 were filmed. I think this is very difficult to answer. On the one hand I think it could be that they did not know and that any foreshadowing for DarkDany in the early seasons is either a) accidental or b) due to the fact that GRRM was still involved.

I must admit I doubt it though. Because some of the foreshadowings are not just the things that happened, but also how Emilia was directed. So, I would argue that they knew for two reasons: The foreshadowing in season 2, where we see Dany so pissed at being ignored, threatening to burn a city down and an addition which was not in the books: Her brutality in killing Doreah and her lover by letting them starve to death in an empty vault.

So, why did they focus so much on Dany then? First, to give them the benefit of the doubt. It is completely possible that they thought Dany’s arc was the most interesting. Villains can be interesting and maybe Dany as a character was just their fav. You can like villains, you know (not that I would ever understand liking Dany, but that is something different). Second, they wanted the audience to buy the hype, so they had to dupe the audience (and not dupe them at the same time, hence Leni Riefenstahl). Third, Dany was their poster child and milking cow. I am absolutely convinced that greed for money came into the way of good story telling. They wanted to sell merch, it’s as easy as that. Just think about the dreadful Jon€rys champagne flutes they sold....

So, my conclusion difffers a little from yours. I do think they knew. I just think they botched it because a) they only know one method to hide plot twists - which is hiding by keeping silent, not telling b) they were unable to wrap up their idea of how the PoV trap could be translated to screen in a consistent way c) they probably were influenced also by the fact that Bran and Sansa were just not badass enough and d) someone wanted the merch money.

So, ultimately to me that means they failed as artists - spectacularly  - and I really hope they’ll feel the repercussions of that in years to come. The show that failed delivering on the hype. The show that botched the ending. The show that did not wrap up consistently. That is what GoT will be known for. Serves them right.

Thanks for the ask!