#DWvsTW

[thisdiscontentedwinter]

Holy shit. 

I’m pretty sure that at this point nobody hates Teen Wolf like the people actually making it. 

What the fuck is going on here? 

[thisdiscontentedwinter]

Oh, this guy gets it, and I am here for it!

This is the best tiktok ive ever seen 😂💀

[thisdiscontentedwinter]

Since you have watched the travesty that is the Teen Wolf movie, I have to ask: if Scott is working as a rescue dog in LA, how bad has the infrastructure of LA gotten in ten years that this is his job that he might not even be getting paid real money for, does he live in a kennel full-time, and most importantly, has he been fixed? Is that why he adopted Eli, he can't give Allison the child she so desperately wants now that she's been resurrected?

Thank you for your sacrifice!

DW: Hahahaha! As much as I wish I could report he was working as a rescue dog, he’s actually running an animal shelter and went into an unstable building to rescue a dog. Which is down a hole. With a kid. 

Why the firefighters are like, “Hey, this building is about to collapse and that protective dog is acting aggressively so we can’t reach the kid. We’d better call some guy who runs an animal shelter instead of lowering a harness to this child who is clearly old enough to put it on herself” is anyone’s guess. 

Seriously. Such a ridiculously contrived rescue situation. I don’t know how to break it to the TW writers, but no real life rescue is going to prioritise a dog over a kid. They would tranq the dog. And, if the building was about to collapse and they didn’t have time to wait for someone with a tranq gun, they would shoot it in order to get the kid out. 

[thisdiscontentedwinter]

Suspicious

Is it reasonable to assume that Derek didn't actually "die" until a body is found? because people in the TW universe have come back from way worse, and I didn't watch the movie but apparently he disappeared into thin air?

DW: It’s reasonable to assume anything you want about that plothole-filled dumpster fire. 

#dwvstw

[thisdiscontentedwinter]

Oh man. 

I see the delusional squad is back on their circa 2014 bullshit, and that scene in the pilot where Scott saves the dog. 

But he’s a vet tech, they claim, he’s qualified. 

He’s a sixteen year old high school student, biscuits. It takes a 2 year college course to become a vet tech in California.  

It is, as always, bad writing. 

See, the point of that scene is to show Scott as being good and caring to animals, which is another reason for Allison to fall for him. And the exact same thing could have been accomplished by Scott saying, “I’m going to make him comfortable, and call the vet in.” 

But instead of blaming the show for bad writing, they’re blaming the fans for laughing at the bad writing and the bad light it puts Scott in. 

Hot take, delusionals: It’s not racist to point out that Scott should not be performing medical procedures on animals, however loudly you shout it. 

[thisdiscontentedwinter]

Apparently Derek has a son in the teen wolf movie and he’s like 15.

DW: It is hilarious. 

Are there ways to make this work? Undoubtedly! 

Will Jeff utilise them? 

There are 12 year old fanfic writers out there who would do a better job of writing Teen Wolf than Jeff, and still get tomorrow’s homework done on time! 

This movie is going to have to be 67 hours long in order to get in all 497 cameras and 268 new characters. 

It’s going to be an incoherent mess, but I guess at least it will be on brand. 

[thisdiscontentedwinter]

Can I ask something? It's going to be confusing, because I am hella confused. I've read and loved your Teen Wolf meta. I dunno if you ever commented on this (have looked, but couldn't find anything), but it's been baffling me for a while:

Teen Wolf creators were insistent on making Derek/Kate a legitimate couple, narrating it as if they were exes instead of victim and rapist. Which is disturbing. They had Derek as 19 in the pilot (so he was 13 during their "relationship") and later with the deaged episode they changed it to he was 16. Doesn't sit well with me, since they kinda kept promoting from the beginning of TW the idea that 16 year olds are old enough to make responsible decisions, so if Derek was 16, then he's responsible for his family's death for thinking with his dick? That's what's implied, imo, and enforced with how he was always painted as villain/antagonist. It's disturbing. TW then gave Derek a second "love interest" in the form of Jennifer/Julia. Who was Kali's emissary and lover and certainly not Derek's age. (Probably twice his age. Not that I can oppose age difference when I'm a shipper of both Steter and Sterek, but, you know, in-universe she's considered "Derek's age", and there's something wrong with that lack of acknowledgement that I can't put into words.) Though then at least he wasn't a minor, he was still vulnerable, used, and there was implication in the show that the "relationship" was helped along with magic.

Both cases are not unexpected from a tone-deaf show like TW.

But what baffles me and has me wondering is fandom. Do a lot if fanfic writers tend do look at these two relationships as legitimate in their fic or does it only seem like it to me? Why do they do so?

Especially when they're so ready to ignore Paige's existence, and are so eager to have Derek in Sterek fanfic be only 2/3/4 or 5 years older than Stiles but the writers then act like he's double or triple Stiles' age, from the way they're writing and exaggerating the age difference? (I'm the most confused when they put the age difference at only 2 years and they have the Sheriff react like Derek is 30, harping on about "underage!".)

I recently saw an AU fic where Derek was 21, Kate his same age girlfriend and burned the family. Author didn't seem to understand the implications here.

Another fic had Jennifer be Derek's first love, and they painted it as a normal relationship. It... The author disregarded *Paige* (they explicitly mentioned her asking him out and him saying no), but went with the canonically insane murder-hobo witch that likely bespelled him?? O_o

What I'm trying to say is, these are manipulative older women unconcerned with consent, and it disturbs me that these two canon "relationships" in particular are accepted by a lot of fans?? Like, why would you legitimise it, by having them be Derek's same-age girlfriend or wife and mother of his children or something along those lines? What's the pull here? Am I seeing things? Exaggerating? What am I missing?

You're so good at pulling things apart enough to make sense, Disco, maybe you can help me understand? TY!

DW: There's no easy answer for this, but where I've seen this, it's mostly AUs, and it's certainly not Derek/Kate endgame.

So in that scenario, a lot of authors are looking for someone for Derek to be in a bad relationship with--and Kate and Jennifer are already right there. Why reinvent the wheel?

I think that, generally speaking, this isn't writers overlooking the canon skeeviness of Kate/Derek and Jennifer/Derek. This is just repackaging it for an AU, where chances are the whole underage thing with Kate never happened, and neither did Jennifer's spells.

And I honestly don't know how much older Jennifer is than Derek, but I will say that as long as they're both over the age of consent (and they meet as adults, after all) there's nothing wrong with it. She could be thirty. She could be fifty. She could be centuries old for all we know. But both her and Derek are adults. I don't think age is the issue with Jennifer, is all I'm saying. After all, how much older was Noshiko than Ken? And their relationship was, to all appearances, healthy.

I think the problem is that you're seeing these stories as "legitimising" unhealthy relationships. In an AU, what does it matter if Jennifer was Derek's first love and it was a happy and consenting relationship? The whole point of an AU is to change things and see how it all shakes out differently. And when it's *not* a healthy relationship, like most of Derek/Kate, then, quite simply, depiction doesn't equal legitimisation.

But honestly, a lot of the issues around canon age is that it's as changeable as the weather. In the pilot script, Derek is 19. That's a three year age gap with Stiles. But suddenly the fire happened either a few years ago or ten years ago. So was Derek a teenager with Kate, or was he nine? Is he three years older than Stiles, or a decade?

Time is an illusion. In Teen Wolf, even more so, because Jeff Davis was lazy as fuck and didn't bother pin down a timeline.

[thisdiscontentedwinter]

Literally, my first thought once I saw “Eli” and realized the name sake was “they’re really trying to smooth over this whole train wreck about Arden and the backlash by releasing their newest Sterek bait early , aren’t they?” And I laughed and laughed. I mean I was waiting to see what the bait was gonna be, but a whole ass child that looks like stiles and derek literally baked him? This kid is the only reason people are gonna watch (mostly illegally stream) just for the new Sterek gifs and I love that. Is Hoechlin even gonna be in it? It would be even more hilarious if he’s not.

DW: It is going to be an absolute mess! 

Bringing all our marshmallows to this dumpster fire! 

[thisdiscontentedwinter]

He wouldn’t even bite her when she was already dying because... she might die? / You’re acting as though he refused to bite Hayden and then just left her to die, but in reality there were two possible ways of saving her: giving her the bite, or treating her by human means. Scott knew that the chances of her surviving the bite were very, very small, and it would only result in an even more painful death. Instead, he called Melissa, who brought medical equipment, and they tried to save her that way. It was still unlikely to save her, and of course we know that it didn’t work, but in the situation it probably sounded like a much better solution.

DW: Anon, I'm acting as though he refused to bite Hayden and then just left her to die, because that's what happened. Scott leaves, and Hayden literally dies. There are multiple times where Melissa says the treatment isn't working, including while Scott is still there, and yet Scott still doesn't give her the bite.

SCOTT: There's another way to save her.

THEO: Guys, I don't know what the statistics are for surviving a Werewolf bite, but she's definitely not surviving this. We need to do something.

I mean, say what you like about Theo, but he's not wrong.

And then later in the episode we have this part here:

LIAM: It's not working, is it?

MELISSA: She should be showing signs of improvement.

MELISSA: Hayden?

HAYDEN: Call Val... My sister... Valerie...

LIAM: She's a deputy...

SCOTT: I think I might know where she is. Theo just texted me about the high school. He said there's cops everywhere. Might be another Chimera.

HAYDEN: Um, my sister... I don't want to die without my sister...

SCOTT: I'll get her.

Huh. So at the point where we know the treatment isn't working, and that Hayden's actively dying, Scott's decision is to go and get her sister so she can have some final words with her. It's still not to give her the bite.

This is the point here, anon, where Scott could have still changed his mind. He knows she's dying, and he knows the treatment isn't working. So what's stopping him from trying the bite here?

And then, of course, the treatment continues not to work at the hospital, but by then Scott's left and can't be reached.

MELISSA: Oh, no, no, no, no... I think you better get Liam.

MASON: What about Scott?

MELISSA: He's not answering. And if Liam wants to be with her, he needs to get here now... Because she's dying, and I don't know what else to do.

At what point in Hayden's very slow death do you think that trying the bite sounds better than continuing to do what's clearly not working?

but in the situation it probably sounded like a much better solution.

Well, it didn't sound like a much better solution to at least one person there, did it? Liam. And he wasn't wrong, was he?

[thisdiscontentedwinter]

Disco, what do you think about the whole Teen Wolf Movie situation and Arden Cho? (You are not obligated to answer if you don't want to, of course)

DW: I think that it’s bullshit, but are we really surprised? 

Isaac, Allison, Erica: all chose to leave for other projects.

Danny, Kira, Boyd: all were very surprised to find out “there was no more story” for them. 

Oh, and let’s not forget that Braeden thought she was coming back for the S6 finale... right up until she was told she wasn't. 

It’s a pattern of treating their POC cast as second class. Why would we be shocked they’re trying to pay them less too? 

[thisdiscontentedwinter]

Hey, Disco! Um, what's your thoughts on TW's Sheriff Stilinski? Cuz, I kinda need to escape from the what the fricking frack scape my mind has been in since yesterday an anti sheriff post from PEW kinda landed on my dash and it left me reeling. I'm not a big fan of the sheriff myself, but I still can't grasp the mental gymnastics of that post to conclude the sheriff is corrupt and casually victimizes poor widdle Scott all the time and it's pure racism or sumthing??? I looked a bit at PEW's tumblr, and it's all vicious stuff like that?? With lots of mental gymnastics not just for TW & Scott but whatever their crusade flavor right then? And they say Sterek and Steter fans are viciously never giving credit where it belongs when that's what they do all the time? Like whut? Thoughts on why suddenly the sheriff is persona non grata when that character in canon openly says things like I trust Scott but not you Stiles, or Scott is the son I wish I had? Or was he always disliked by the squad and- I don't even know. So thoughts on the sheriff and what the frick that "corrupt sheriff -> racism!" pew post is about? You seem kinda good at translating pew's nonsense into normal people speak.

DW: All you need to know about Pew is that he’s both an idiot and an asshole. 

Stiles came by his sarcasm honestly. When the sheriff says Scott is the son he wishes he had, he’s kidding, and anyone who thinks he isn’t has, well, never met a human being before in their life. But yes, you’d think that Pew and the Crew would love that kind of stuff! God know they take everything else out of context. 

As for the sheriff’s “corruption”... does he bend the rules because his town is infested by supernatural creatures? Yes. Does he sometimes break them? Hell, yes he does, because the normal rules do not apply. This isn’t just in Teen Wolf, of course--this is a staple of supernatural shows. And, in Teen Wolf, it’s not just the sheriff. We see Natalie breaking the rules. We see Melissa doing it. We see Rafael doing it--and he’s even higher up in law enforcement. And it’s all for the same reason: to protect Scott and Stiles and all those needing protection. But you never see Pew complaining about those other characters. 

Pew loves to overlook the fact that the sheriff isn’t just protecting Stiles--he’s also protecting Scott. But then, he sort of has to overlook that because it doesn’t fit his narrative at all, does it? 

The sheriff isn’t a perfectly written character--don’t get me started on the whole Kira thing--but show me a character in the show who suddenly didn’t start acting against type because the plot required it. Teen Wolf is full of terrible writing like that, where characters are constantly acting in ways they never have before, just because the writers’ couldn’t write their way out of a paper bag when it comes to character development. 

But all you need to remember about Pew is that he once wrote a post about how he hated Stiles because he once had a friend who reminded him of him, and who turned out to be an asshole. And at the same time he claims he’s the only one watching the show without bias. 

It’s hilarious. 

[thisdiscontentedwinter]

If the writing had been better and Davis had the balls he would have eventually turned Scott into the villain that he was slowly becoming. But there were no balls to be had in the writers room or on set so we were left with Scott, giving us what must have been mostly a false narative and a walk off where Scott’s final expression just oozes slime. He started out as a whining teenager riddled with hormones who had this horrible thing happen that changed his life and then turned into a narcissistic hypocrite who wore the “chosen one” label like it was an excuse to do deplorable things. This is why I think, if handled by talented people behind the scenes that Scott would have been slowly slid out as the Protagonist to Antagonist of the story by way of letting the “True Alpha” thing warp him as a person-which we saw it did or maybe it was the excuse he needed to be more of who he actually was.

What type of hero does the things that he did in the show and learn absolutely nothing from it or grow from the first to the sixth season of anything? Not a hero, not at all. We get that in Derek, who started out understandably hateful, untrusting, violent, brooding and a loner. What he started out as is not who he was at the end of the series. Same with Stiles who was arguably kind of a dick, a funny sarcastic ass but mean and jealous who ended up still being sarcastic and an ass but less of a dick, more pack minded and no longer the Robin, he became the Batman that Erica called him as or maybe even surpassing that into Oracle. And hell, look at Lydia. Lydia started out as a lousy, annoying, stuck up, air headed (though this was a mask) popular girl obsessed with popularity and being number one with her number one boyfriend. She wouldn’t have given anyone like Stiles the time of day and the show ended with them being best friends (I am going with what Holland and Jeff said about Stydia. She said ambiguous but was a little sarcastic about it and Davis said that they probably ended it after a month when they realized there was just nothing there romantically. So best friendness.) Lydia became a strong, independent person, she didn’t need a guy (though they gave her one at every instance however they could 😑) she learned to fight, learned what she was and how to use her otherness, she made friends, genuine friends with people she never would have looked at twice, went into dangerous situations without thinking twice for her friends and allowed herself to be her true self. She wasn’t pretending to be stupid, the way she was before, because it didn’t matter. Lydia learned that there was more than being the small town jocks girlfriend/future trophy while, better to be seen and not heard-because thats exactly what she was aiming for. Jackson had to be number one because she was number one. She pretended to be dumb to not outshine him or look weird. She would have probably done her four years of college, marry Jackson who would have probably become…what a lawyer like his dad, squeeze out a couple of perfect kids and be the best PTA mom she could be. Yikes to that. Lydia had so much development though she deserved to much more.

Lydia, Derek and Stiles are leagues more the hero than Scott. Scott was bitten and…became the lacrosse co-captain. He loved Allison and then he loved Kira and them Malia (WTF). He didnt grow enough. Scott of course is caring when he cares at all but lets look at that. He cares about his mom, Deaton and anyone he happens to be sleeping with. Yes, he will fight for any innocent person who needs him, he will go out of his way to protect people and he is kind and trusting. But he’s also an ass, like Stiles was an ass and while Stiles remained an ass he always developed layers. Scott’s layer’s didn’t really change as it should have, not compared to the others and thats why his character fails. The writers and Davis tells the audience that he is the hero but they didn’t go hard at making him out to become the hero. I don’t understand why they did that if he was their MAIN but they seemed to develop other characters and not Scott. Scott trusting Theo is what gives it away, Scott is not the hero. Buffy, the chosen one, was the hero she never wore the Chosen One as anything more than what she was, she fought for people because that is who she was an ultimately she grew as a character. She had friends and there were ups and downs but she never trusted anyone above them just because someone blew smoke up her ass and applauded and fake hero worshiped her (like Theo to Scott) she understood that the world was not black and white the world was an array of colors.

What Peter-and yes, even Peter got development more than Scott-sad about Scott is something. Scott surrounded himself with murderers to not her his own hands bloody because it was more important to be a true alpha than a regular one. He needed the prestige more than to fight on his own and do his own dirty work. Didn’t he also decide to let some kids die in the last season? Because they weren’t human it was okay to use them as bait or whatever but had the kids been human he would have tried or sent like Malia out there probably.

The point is that Scott isn’t the hero and I don’t understand how people think he is

DW: I mean, there is nothing here I disagree with at all. I would have loved to see Scott become a well-written villain. Hell, I would have loved to see him on an actual hero's journey as well! Instead we got a character who said he was the hero a lot, but still ended up recruiting teenagers to fight in a supernatural war -- which was exactly what Derek did in S2, and the antis hate him for.

Peter ended up with a better redemption arc than Scott did. Peter!

And yet the antis will tell the majority of fandom who feel this way that this is their fault, not the fault of the writers.

No. It's a fault of execution. If you're a footballer who kicks a ball and it doesn't end up between the posts, don't blame the crowd when you get booed for it. The ball was fine, your boot is fine, but you fucked up the execution all the same.

[thisdiscontentedwinter]

Scott DID side with the Argents, though. He told Derek that his family deserved to be burnt alive by the hunters

DW: Honestly, at that point in the season, back when I still gave Scott the benefit of the doubt, I just cringed when he said that. And I honestly don't know how anyone, even a Scott stan, wouldn't.

I guess my point is you don't have to take that as siding with the Argents -- just as a dumbass kid who says what is just about the worst possible thing he could say in that moment. Is it wrong? Hell yes. Is it forgivable? If he'd grown and learned from it, sure.

But the thing is, the delusional squad are so pressed at refusing to admit Scott has any flaws at all, that they actually defend what Scott says there.

I'm honestly shocked that line made it into the shooting script, and into editing, and into the show, and not once did anyone on the production team say, "Hey, do you think this is the wrong thing for the hero to say?"

The delusionals blame us for disliking Scott. They should really blame the show instead.

[thisdiscontentedwinter]

I've read a lot of your TW metas & ask answers by you these past few days, and if I may add this:

The antis being a hollering minority is so funny to me.

It's not just a bunch of people who don't give a shit about Scott. It's 90% (if not more) of the fandom. What, are all of them racists? Even the POC among the fans?

AO3 has what, over 100k Teen Wolf fics? And of those ca. 90k are other-character-centric, ca. 70k of it being Sterek. Nowhere else have I ever seen such a wholesale rejection of a protagonist in favour of side characters. That's as hilarious as it is wondrous to me.

I'm told the creator of TW is the same guy who created Criminal Minds, so how the heck does that happen? (Though it does explain some of the infuriating aspects of CM.)

So many fandoms had rip-roaring fights amongst each other, it's a normal part of fandom, I think. Bleach was among the worst as far as fandom wars go, imo. And the hatred for the deuteragonist Sasuke in the Naruto anime is also immense & all-encompassing almost (despite being a comparatively well-written character by shounen standards). Let's not even mention the shitstorm Twilight started amongst its fans and seemingly everyone else in the world the minute it hit the shelves.

I...kinda lost track of where I was going with this rambling. But anyway. The fact that Teen Wolf is up there on the scale, and that the shitstorm is basically a tempest in a teacup simply because the Scott fans being a minority is so funny.

And the funniest part is that while fandom wars are normal, when have we ever seen the main character being so thoroughly rejected by the overwhelming majority of fans? How is that not a sign of "We screwed up, let's fix it" instead of "Let's dig our heels in & make it worse." for the creators?

(And yet, when you Google TW, you get articles, wiki entries etc. that paint a picture of the show & its characters that's pretty horrifyingly delusional. The show's creators are so incredibly divorced from the fans. Do they not wonder why O'Brien and Hoechlin got the love and awards they regularly do?)

DW: Oh there are fan wars everywhere, and this one sure is nothing special!

And yes, when 90% of the fans don't love your main character, then that's on you, not on them!

And as for Criminal Minds, IMdB says he created it, and wrote 3 episodes. Listen, Jeff can write a pilot! Teen Wolf is a great set up! But there's a hell of a difference between setting it up and sticking the landing.

I was going to say there's a hell of a difference between setting it up and pulling it off, but I'm pretty sure we all got to see Jeff pulling it off for most of Teen Wolf's run. (Boom tish.)

[thisdiscontentedwinter]

twitter (.) com/Femi_Sorry/status/1436478866894295070 It is kind of funny to see the normally serious political discussions of an account being interrupted by a tweet about teen wolf.

I mean, he's not wrong!

[thisdiscontentedwinter]

I found Derek Hale’s signature scent.