#Carthak

[morphmaker]

The Immortals No. 8: The Fossils Unionized

[checkoutmybookshelf]

I appreciate that Tempests and Slaughter spends so much time deconstructing the prejudices and classism that are inherent to higher education power structures, because this is just startlingly accurate to universities gatekeeping knowledge and ways of knowing.

[naurielrochnur]

WIP tag game

RULES: Post the last sentence you wrote (fanfic / original / anything)

I'm going to piggie back off @mihrsuri's tag and drop in a piece of my Tortall fic I'm working on of Arram's early days in Tortall and how he came to be known as Numair Salmalin.

I know I just posted another WIP but I'm very fond of this one and want to share.

“Stop that Arram.” Varice whispered. “Don’t tease. Not now. I can’t stand the thought of you trapped down here.” She—finally—withdrew her hands and crossed her arms, not in a display of anger, but rather the self comforting act of drawing oneself inward, the unconscious instinct to guard the vital organs from an attack. “Will you please reconsider? Not just for your sake, but for Ozorne and all those he may hurt in his rampage. For me.” How easy would it be to just give in? To let go of his mug and reach a hand, still hot and damp from the heat of the tea, to her face and say “Yes, I accept.” To finally be released from this smothering prison and allowed to walk again under the sky, able to truly bask in his Gift again like a flower turning its face to the sun. He kept a hold of his mug. Too hard, was the answer. True, the oppressive weight of this magical prison pulled an unending ache straight through his core and sent it rattling around his bones, but that pain was nothing compared to the agonies of the gilded cage Ozorne held open and waiting for him.  If he were to acquiesce to the Emperor’s whims, sooner or later—probably sooner—the gold would flake away and reveal the harsh barbed iron underneath. Those bars, like vines armed with cruel thorns, would slowly but inexorably wind their way around his entire being, sinking their hooks into his flesh and binding his limbs until he had no choice but to be maneuvered like a puppet on a string. Ozorne’s puppet. Varice couldn’t stand the thought of him being kept down here. Arram couldn’t stand the thought of what being released might entail for his soul.

Again, anyone who wants to be tagged is free to do so!

[reviewsthatburn]

The worldbuilding in EMPEROR MAGE focuses heavily on Carthak and almost completely ignores Tortall except when drawing some comparison between the two nations. It’s uncomfortably fascinated with slavery in Carthak, specifically with how it is carried out in the palace. It’s yet another white savior narrative (e.g. THE WOMAN WHO RIDES LIKE A MAN) in book three of a Tortall book. This is a bit subtler, since Daine had no intention of messing with the Carthaki way of life, slavery and all, but it turns out that some of the other characters have been actively involved at getting slaves out of the country. Daine’s goddess-driven involvement serves to mess things up for the Emperor, making Carthak much friendlier to Tortall than before their trip. Daine’s bonds with animals provide conversational opportunities for her to draw comparisons between slavery and the caging of animals. 

Full Review at Link.

[dr-dendritic-trees]

Before I get too far into Lady Knight which is very much peak Bigness Book, I want to go back to Daine and what I mean by the Bigness of Tamora Pierce novels.

There's 2 parts of Realms of the Gods that I think are really good (2.5 if you count the democracy dragons) the first is Daine getting to make her peace (and ultimately outgrow) her family. The second, which is what I want to talk about, is the final scene where she kills Ozorne.

Realms and Emperor Mage both have very similar climaxes, they both end with Daine running Ozorne down with the absolute intent of ripping his throat out. The only reason she doesn't do it in Emperor Mage is because Numair and Kaddar thwart her, but its absolutely the natural ending for them.

And then that's sorted (or not) and we get to the actual ending of the books. The ending of Realms is totally unremarkable, its practically a checklist. But the ending of Emperor Mage is amazing.

Daine starts off completely cut off from any of the wider picture. She's from a tiny village in a politically unimportant country (Galla never features in any of the political stuff in these books, its practically an afterthought), she hasn't had access to an education, she thinks of herself as unimportant.

And for the first two books, Daine is increasingly involved with doing powerful magic, and clearly is getting an education and a better opinion of herself, but she's outside the wider discussion. All the politics goes over her head, most of the wider discussion is taking place off page.

By the start of Emperor Mage that's starting to change. Daine has been given, at minimum a crash-course by Thayet. She isn't involved, directly, in peace talks, but she has a solid grasp of the impact her healing Ozorne's birds, or failing to, will have on them.

And then in the end of the book, Daine is actually wielding political power. Like, at the beginning of Wild Mage she didn't think she was important enough to ask Alanna for a job and at the end of Emperor Mage she tells the new Emperor that he needs to get his act together about slavery. Its an amazing personal arc but its also the really cool bit about Tortall world-building. Magical power affects the politics going on at the time, and this is where Daine finally goes from being someone other people make political decisions around to actually using all of her own power, not just the magical stuff.

[malkaleh]

Sometimes I start googling paediatrics courses in the US for fic reasons and I think of @wheresonichedgehogwnt and I’m like YAY SAATI (though she isn’t a paediatrician she’s a family doctor but it’s the doctor thing)

[raoulgoldenlake]

Love this! Tyra always struck me as Italy-like, but now that I’m thinking about it, I don’t know why. There may have been a reference to canals, or maybe I just wanted there to be an Italy stand in!

Seconding that the Bazhir seem to be based on nomadic groups in the Sahara Desert. The Amazigh people, for example and yes I did once write a fic with a similar premise.

My best guesses on which cultures/countries Tamora Pierce bases her places and peoples off of. Obviously these aren't perfect copies, but more of where the idea may have come from.

Tortall is definitely Europe. Knights, castles, European names like John and George, ect. Easy.

Bazhir Desert: this one is trickier. Very likely based on Arab deserts or the Sahara and the peoples who live there. It's very ambiguous, just a basic desert culture, not a ton of world building here, but it's been a long time since I've read the Lioness books.

Galla and Scanra: I believe these are both based off Northern countries, with Scanra definitely based on Viking culture. Galla is less so, more like Lithuania or Poland, but neither is Russia. We will get to Russia in a bit.

Sairen and K'miri: Definitely Mongolia and steppe people and place.

Roof of the World: Tibet

Carthak: Egypt. Definitely based on ancient Egypt. Crocodiles, hyenas, lots of gold and darker skinned people. Old, powerful and center of learning.

Yamani Islands: Japan. I don't need to elaborate.

Copper Isles: This one I think is a bit of a mix of Indonesia and Hawaii.

Now, for Circle of Magic! (aka the fun and interesting culture and worldbuilding)

Emelan and the Pebbled Sea: Definitely Mediterranean, but I'm not sure which. My best guess is a sorta Turkey/Persian influence. It's not as obvious as Tortall. I believe the Chandlers and Tris are from a more Italian culture, probably from a country up North, but close enough to border Emelan and making travel easy. The whole merchant family thing made me think of Italy.

Traders: Likely based of Roma/Romani people. Trading caravans and largely persecuted. Not an exact copy, but similar.

Namorn: Russia! Definitely Russia. Large empire, very cold, far north and uses vaguely Russian terms. Powerful and not to be messed with.

Tharios: This one was tricky and fascinating. Probably ancient Greece, but I believe there were some other influences. The world building was massive as the plot directly involved the culture of the city. We also view the city from the scholarly but judgemental eyes of Tris.

Chammur: My best guess is India. Briar is more concerned with gangs and Evy so he doesn't really let us see the city as well. But India seems like a fair bet.

Yanjing: China. No needed discussion here lol.

Gyongxe: I'm guessing Tibet, again. The Roof of the World was way too quick, so Im glad Tamora re-visited this culture in a better way. Who knows, the Shang Dragon was very Chinese inspired, maybe Alanna did travel that far and missed Briar, Rosethorn and Evy by a few years! I'm still firm in the belief that all the books are in the same world.

If you agree or disagree with my picks, feel free to comment and propose your own theories! Or if I missed a country.

[masterkeynobi]

usually i loathe when a protagonist gets turned into a "bad" parent in a sequel series but tortall does it so well and so realistically that i can't help but think it'd be ooc any other way. of course alanna is gruff and sometimes unkind and not always present. of course jonathan must do what is best for realm and reputation; of course he's king first, father second. jon's parenting style is visible from the start in how roald acts during his page years — jon as a page sees ralon held down and beaten for the crime of bothering little alan; roald, much as he wants to, can't so much as join kel on her nighttime patrols for fear of how it'd look. jon takes alanna on as a squire because they're good friends & lovers; roald has had his knight-master picked out for him for years before he's even made a squire.

alanna gets along well enough with alan and thom, her knightling and her scholar, but she can't for the life of her understand how aly works. in my opinion this has something to do both with the fact that aly is a lot more like george in the most dangerous ways and with the fact that aly is rather significantly more of a Girl than alanna ever was. alanna had no (0) female friends growing up and only one older female mentor figure. she grew up and still lives the vast majority of her life surrounded by men of similar status. is it any surprise she finds her sons easier to talk to?

there's a passing sentence in trickster's choice that alludes to aly having once been jealous of how effusive her mother was about keladry of mindelan. i can't help but think also about kalasin ii of conté, kally whose mother's people are matrilineal, kally who should by rights have been her mother's heir. kally who calls the lioness aunt and wanted as a child nothing more than to be a knight, who will spend the rest of her life in carthak and likely never see a lady knight again. i think she was jealous of kel too, but in the opposite direction. aly couldn't and wouldn't be who kel was, too protective of her own freedom and too much like her father to ever want a shield. aly envied the easy understanding alanna had of kel's ambitions and grit. kalasin had those same ambitions but never got the chance to show that same grit. kalasin spent the four years of kel's page training at king's reach learning to be an empress.

it's the. not wanting and choosing not to do vs the wanting and not having the choice. it's the jealousy someone so distant from alanna got so much of her attention when her interactions with her own daughter were constantly snippy vs the thought that kally should've been there first, should've gotten to prove the conservatives wrong, should've been able to show kel around and shield (ha) her from the worst of their ire. no little girls will grasp wide-eyed for tales of aly cooper or empress kalasin the same way they do for the lioness and lady kel. i don't think aly minds, but i think kalasin very, very quietly does.

[rikashmoonsword]

Ozorne being white is so funny. The Carthakis being tormented by worlds most fuckass white guy. Carthak and their fuckass white man who is spiting the gods.

[book--brackets]

The Magic Thief by Sarah Prineas (2008-2014)

In a city that runs on a dwindling supply of magic, a young boy is drawn into a life of wizardry and adventure. Conn should have dropped dead the day he picked Nevery's pocket and touched the wizard's locus magicalicus, a stone used to focus magic and work spells. But for some reason he did not. Nevery finds that interesting, and he takes Conn as his apprentice on the provision that the boy find a locus stone of his own. But Conn has little time to search for his stone between wizard lessons and helping Nevery discover who--or what--is stealing the city of Wellmet's magic.

100 Cupboards by N. D. Wilson (2007-2010)

Twelve-year-old Henry York is going to sleep one night when he hears a bump on the attic wall above his head. It's an unfamiliar house—Henry is staying with his aunt, uncle, and three cousins—so he tries to ignore it. But the next night he wakes up with bits of plaster in his hair. Two knobs have broken through the wall, and one of them is slowly turning...

 Henry scrapes the plaster off the wall and discovers doors—ninety-nine cupboards of all different sizes and shapes. Through one he can hear the sound of falling rain. Through another he sees a glowing room—with a man strolling back and forth! Henry and his cousin Henrietta soon understand that these are not just cupboards. They are, in fact, portals to other worlds.

Princess Ben by Catherine Gilbert Murdock (2008)

A girl is transformed, through instruction in life at court, determination, and magic, from sullen, pudgy, graceless Ben into Crown Princess Benevolence, a fit ruler of the kindgom of Montagne as it faces war with neighboring Drachensbett.

Little Thieves by Margaret Owen (2021-present)

Vanja Schmidt knows no gift is freely given, not even a mother’s love. Abandoned to Death and Fortune as a child, she has scraped by as a lowly maidservant with her quick wits and the ability to see her god-mothers’ hands at work in the world. But when they demand her lifelong servitude in exchange, Vanja decides that gifts not given freely…can always be stolen.

When an opportunity rises to steal a string of enchanted pearls, Vanja seizes it, transforming herself into Gisele, the princess she’s served for years. As the glamorous princess, Vanja leads a double life, charming the nobility while ransacking their coffers as a jewel thief. Then, one heist away from funding an escape from her god-mothers, Vanja crosses the wrong god, and is cursed to turn into jewels herself. The only way to save herself is to make up for what she’s taken—starting with her first victim, Princess Gisele.

Valdemar: Mage Wings by Mercedes Lackey (1992-1993)

High magic had been lost to Valdemar when he gave his life to save his kingdom from destruction by the dark sorceries. Now it falls to Elspeth Herald, heir to the throne, to take up the challenge and seek a mentor who will awaken her mage abilities.

The Numair Chronicles by Tamora Pierce (2018-present)

Arram Draper is on the path to becoming one of the realm’s most powerful mages. The youngest student in his class at the Imperial University of Carthak, he has a Gift with unlimited potential for greatness–and for attracting danger. At his side are his two best friends: Varice, a clever girl with an often-overlooked talent, and Ozorne, the “leftover prince” with secret ambitions. Together, these three friends forge a bond that will one day shape kingdoms. And as Ozorne gets closer to the throne and Varice gets closer to Arram’s heart, Arram realizes that one day–soon–he will have to decide where his loyalties truly lie.

Derkholm by Diana Wynne Jones (1998-2000)

Everyone - wizards, soldiers, farmers, elves, dragons, kings and queens alike - is fed up with Mr Chesney's Pilgrim Parties: groups of tourists from the world next door who descend en masse every year to take the Grand Tour. What they expect are all the trappings of a grand fantasy adventure, including the Evil Enchantress, Wizard Guides, the Dark Lord, Winged Minions, and all. And every year different people are chosen to play these parts. But now they've had enough: Mr Chesney may be backed by a very powerful demon, but the Oracles have spoken. Now it's up to the Wizard Derk and his son Blade, this year's Dark Lord and Wizard Guide, not to mention Blade's griffin brothers and sisters, to save the world from Mr Chesney's depredations.

Traveler's Gate by Will Wight (2013-2014)

Simon can only watch, helpless, as his family is killed and his friends captured by enemy Travelers-men and women who can summon mystical powers from otherworldly Territories. To top it off, another young man from Simon's village discovers that he's a savior prophesied to destroy evil and save the realm.Prophecy has nothing to say about Simon. He has no special powers, no magical weapons, and no guarantee that he'll survive. But he sets off anyway, alone, to gain the power he needs to oppose the Travelers and topple their ruthless Overlord. It may not be his destiny, but Simon's determined to rescue his fellow villagers from certain death.Because who cares about prophecy, really?

Deltora Quest by Emily Rodda (2000)

The evil Shadow Lord is plotting to invade Deltora and enslave its people. All that stands against him is the magic Belt of Deltora with its seven gems of great and mysterious power. When the gems are stolen and hidden in dark terrible places throughout the kingdom, the Shadow Lord triumphs, and Deltora is lost.

In secrecy, with only a hand-drawn map to guide them, two unlikely companions set out on a perilous quest. Determined to find the lost gems and rid their land of the tyrant, they struggle towards their first goal - the sinister Forests of Silence.

Furthermore by Tahereh Mafi (2016-2017)

There are only three things that matter to twelve-year-old Alice Alexis Queensmeadow: Mother, who wouldn't miss her; magic and color, which seem to elude her; and Father, who always loved her. The day Father disappears from Ferenwood he takes nothing but a ruler with him. But it's been almost three years since then, and Alice is determined to find him. She loves her father even more than she loves adventure, and she's about to embark on one to find the other.

But bringing Father home is no small matter. In order to find him she'll have to travel through the mythical, dangerous land of Furthermore, where down can be up, paper is alive, and left can be both right and very, very wrong. It will take all of Alice's wits (and every limb she's got) to find Father and return home to Ferenwood in one piece. On her quest to find Father, Alice must first find herself--and hold fast to the magic of love in the face of loss.

[ididntknowwhattocallthis]

I feel like maybe he's not super dark but not super light either? IDK that's how I've always pictured him. A little darker than the Bazhir or Buri.

Is Emperor Ozorne not Black???

[checkoutmybookshelf]

School Days

Ok, so as I said in this post, I am very much a Numair stan, so when Tamora Pierce announced a million years ago that there was a Numair Origin Story trilogy in the works, I was PSYCHED. Then I waited with the rest of the fandom for I-don't-even-know-how-many years until we got the first book. And while I and the rest of the fandom wait patiently for the second Numair book, let's talk Tempests and Slaughter.

I made no secret that Emperor Mage was my favorite Immortals Quartet book, and that Numair was a lot of the reason for that, but I also really enjoyed Carthak as a setting. That we get to see even more of Carthak in this book is a HUGE plus. We get the much-vaunted university, we get the arena, we get some of the city, and we get some of the rivers and green spaces. Objectively the arena and the university are the primary locations, and I loved the educations that Arram gets in both places and how the imperial family and imperial power structures are so deeply woven into both spaces.

And Arram comes to realize this over the course of the book, even going so far as to realize that he could leave the toxic structures once he achieves mastery. That realization is somewhat complicated by the fact that his is both a student who finds his way to teachers who value him and are willing to teach HIM rather than the politically acceptable curriculum, and the fact that he is roommates and BFFs with Ozorne Tasikhe. Plus, the fact that Varice is dedicated to protecting and supporting Ozorne...that's gonna get complicated in future books.

This is where I feel like it's important to point out that reading Tempests and Slaughter after Emperor Mage had the potential to land like The Phantom Menace did, because there were a lot of similarities. We KNOW where Ozorne, Varice, and Arram end up. We can see all the foreshadowing and we are writhing in our seats as we see every single one of the red flags that were always there for Ozorne. We can see the setups to payoffs we know are coming but don't have yet.

Where Tempests and Slaughter stands head and shoulders above Phantom Menace though is in not simplifying characters because they have a pre-set trajectory and pre-set growth they have to go through to get them to where we know they're going. Ozorne, Arram, and Varice are still complex, compelling characters, and knowing where they're going does not in any way make the journey less interesting. This book does more than just fill in a backstory gap. It is itself a story that weaves into the wider Tortall universe. It's really, really damn good, and it has things to say independent of the expected ending in Emperor Mage.

This book has things to say about class, power, sociopolitical institutions like the arena, and the politics of education institutions. It also has a lot to say about what learning is and where it occurs. I have a PhD, I was in university for eleven years. There is a huge part of me that holds a deep, complex, and oft-uncomfortable love for these insitutions, and having Tempests and Slaughter both recognize the good things universities can do and also highlight the hideous harms they can do was just an incredible experience.

As with all Tamora Pierce books, I cannot recommend this one enough. I will say that we have been waiting for a while for book 2 and will probably wait a while more, but the wait has never not been worth it with this author, so hang on to patience folks, and definitely pick up this book.

[ladylingua]

it’s so darkly hilarious when Daine first meets Jon

because she very sweetly is all “Me? You’re interested in little old me? Golly gee willikers, I can’t possibly be of interest to the likes of you!”

meanwhile Jon is just profoundly grateful she likes him and Tortall because he was gonna feel really bad if he had to tell her she’s not allowed to ever leave Tortall under pain of death

because no joke, after seeing Daine’s immense and unparalleled power, imagine her being like “Ok well this was fun, it’s been great meeting you and learning about the inner workings of one branch of your military, but I actually think I’m going to go to Carthak now, or Tyra, or Scanra, or even back to Galla, gonna pack up all my godlike magic power and ability to liaise with animals and sense immortal threats before they appear and go visit one of your rival nations and offer them that power now, anyways thanks for everything bye!!”

please, George’s people would have killed her before she had finished packing a single saddlebag, absolutely no way Daine is allowed to just walk out after what they’ve all seen, no fucking way

Daine all perky and happy and amazed anyone at all finds her interesting, Jon awkwardly chuckling while discretely shooing away his lawyers in the corner who are drafting up terms of imprisonment, Onua and Numair just heaving big sighs of relief their new friend is so happy here and things don’t have to go south

[commodoreshock]

Do you think the first time Numair meets Alanna she sees what her brother could have been if he hadn’t closed off his humanity and surrounded himself with people using him for their own ends?

Do you think Arram and co will ever hear gossip about this prodigy hotshot ginger with a bad attitude who just obtained Mastery at the City of the Gods absurdly young?

[kingedmundsroyalmurder]

“I met him once, you know,” Numair says, and Thom freezes. “Duke Roger, I mean.” “When?” Thom demands. Roger had left Carthak nearly twenty years ago, after Alanna saved King Jonathan from the Sweating Sickness. Numair had gone to Carthak young, yes, but surely not so young as that. “Right after I arrived,” Numair says. “I suppose he heard about the youngest student ever admitted to the University and wanted to see for himself what I was made of.” He shrugs, far too casual for a man admitting to having met the most dangerous sorcerer in the world as a child. “It was only the one meeting, so apparently he wasn’t impressed.” For a moment, Thom is caught between two competing emotions: relief, that Roger left Numair alone and a deeply nonsensical anger, that Roger dismissed Numair so quickly.

And bam, I am broadsided by an entirely new AU idea. For the love of God, brain, slow down with the AUs.

But imagine Roger showing up with bby!Arram in tow and Arram growing up and slowly realizing that his teacher/adopted dad might not be on the up and up. And then everything goes to hell when Alanna kills Roger and then everything somehow gets even worse when Thom brings him back.