#But saying gege is the worst writer in the world?

[pockethep]

Now that JJK 271 is out and had...an ending...I have one issue and question.

Why are people trying to force a narrative that most Shonen endings are bad?

Haikyu!!, Slam Dunk, Assassination Classroom, Mob Psycho 100, Dororo, Gurren Lagann, Zatch Bell, the ending of Chainsaw Man part 1, Trigun, Ashita no Joe, Gintama, the JJBA endings (especially Steel Ball Run and Stone Ocean), Golden Kamuy, Azumanga Daioh, Beck, Pandora Hearts, Great Teacher Onizuka, and way more than I can list all had great endings.

Heck, Full Metal Alchemist, a manga that many hold in especially high regard, is widely regarded to have a perfect or near perfect ending.

I have my own issues with the jjk ending, but some of them stem from issues I've had with the manga for a while so it wasn't surprising for the issues I've been having to crop up at the finale, especially given the rush to get there. But there are so many people quick to bash the entire category of manga. The examples of bad, mediocre, and/or controversial shonen endings are often just very well-known series so of course when they end people are loud about it.

As unsatisfied as I, and many people are, with this ending I feel like it was almost inevitable. Gege's health took a steep drop towards the latter half of the series and even more during this final arc. (I still swear by the fact that most manga, especially jjk, should be on a monthly format instead of weekly).

At the end of the day, endings are hard. You have to wrap up multiple threads in a succinct and satisfying way, and this is even harder when its a long running series or a series with a LOT of expectations. Coupled with the deadlines, restraints, and meddling most mangaka face when writing its a difficult task to wrap up hundreds of chapters in just a few.

Anyway it really has been our Potential Kaisen.

[gabichanwrites]

I've seen an opinion about JJK that the story needs so much pointless death and unrealized potential because it is the point. That this is the world of JJK, cruel and killing off potential because of higher-ups indifference and carelessness with sorcerer's lives. That Gege did a brave thing by stepping out of the line of a typical shouen plot and made his characters suffer and die and pointed out the ridiculousness of adults making children fight for them.

And to all of that I say - I get it. But also I don't agree.

There is a significant difference between the potential in-universe and the potential of the characters. Sure, they overlap a lot, especially in series like JJK, but there is a difference. For example, both the characters and us have been thrilled with the unspoken potential of Megumi's "sacred treasure" and I'm pretty sure every single one of us went wild when he made his half-baked domain in S1. Also, he got Sukuna as his hypeman - it's hard to really top that in terms of potential. But when I say character potential, I don't mean only power scaling one - I mean what they could do in a story. And one of the best examples for me are The Twins. You know, the ones that try to bargain with Sukuna to kill off the Fake-Getou. And the quite pointless death of BOTH of them.

Their techniques personally interest me a lot but it's not even about that. Even if there is not that much space to explore with them cursed technique-wise, wouldn't it be so interesting if one of them got to live? Betrayed by every curse she turned for help to, alone in a raging Shibuya - forced to work with the School Gang? With their very differing opinions, with her wildly different perspective... Man, I'm not that good of a writer to figure it out on a fly. But there was potential there, a very interesting one, and wasting it isn't the nail on the coffin for Gege's story - but it does disappoint me, considering how hyped the story was for me beforehand. How much trust I put into Gege's writing.

And with the way things are going with Nanami, Nobara and, from what I've gathered from my partner's ashamed face when I mentioned my suspicions, Todou, this is no longer about power potential the characters had (although with Nobara it kinda still is). It's about how those deaths are hidden behind the smoke screen of theme and well, that's the cruelty of the world that tries to hide the balant shock-value of these deaths. Because back in season 1 Gojo already said it - that he knows killing higher-ups won't really solve anything. That it's about a new generation doing better, forcing a change others reject.

So why isn't this story about that? Why does it kill off THREE (?) characters for the sake of kicking Yuuji into dirt? Why does Mahito even require so many named deaths to establish... What exactly? That he's fucked up and immoral and direct opposite of Yuuji? That he can bring out the worst in him? I THINK I GOT THE POINT AFTER JUNPEI AND NANAMI, REALLY.

So, with the spoilers I have from the manga, I just feel like it's not quite right to call those deaths deserved because of the setting. Not when the story in S1 promised a change, a hopeful future set by the new generation.

And if that were never the main focus of the series, then I don't want to hear a single world about those deaths contributing to it because they are not.

Man, there is no one who wants to love JJK more than me and there is no one more heartbroken that I can't bring myself to do so anymore.

[the-unknown-writer-of-dreams]

Jujutsu Kaisen

This post will contain manga spoilers so please think before you read anything ahead.

So recently in the jujutsu kaisen Manga, the worst came to pass, I mean it was inevitable seeing how they needed to bring the main character out and not treat him like a side character but I still can't help but feel like they did Gojo dirty. I know I should accept and move on, he is just a character in a fictional world but still, it would feel wrong to not write about it when I see so many people writing so many stupid things about a single character's death.

I feel like making Gojo incapable of fighting would have been a rather better approach than just killing him off. I understand that his death was supposed to be a stepping stone for the main character to get his ass out of the hiding room and do something about the antagonist but pulling him out of the fight would have somehow done the same thing. Yuji is a strong character with golden retriever energy, meaning even a small trigger can actually hurt him and he is quite sensitive but we often tend to forget that Yuji is the same person who ate a cursed object and agreed to let the counsel execute him when he consumes all the fingers. A man who is ready to give himself up to honor his grandfather's wish, there is no way he is weak or a coward.

Getting back to Gojo and why he shouldn't be killed I guess there is no straight-up answer because both outcomes would lead to almost the same reaction. One thing I wanna point out is Naruto fandoms telling JJK fandoms to suck it up because they went through the same two of their own favorite characters but the difference here is that both the characters had a satisfying death, both Naruto's Master and Sasuke's brother died fulfilling what they wanted to achieve but when it comes to Gojo, he was lonely and alone ever since he was a kid and was able to do whatever he wanted meaning nothing was surprising to him. One of the reasons, I believe, he became a teacher was because he knew he wouldn't be good for obvious reasons but he succeeded at that as well, for most parts. So, what I am trying to say is that Gojo lived a sad and lonely life even with his friends around him, his best friend Geto was his moral compass but he eventually needed to be removed as well.

In short, there are various ways a story can unfold and sometimes death might just be inevitable and needed for a story to build up there are various other routes one can take, but ultimately it is up to the writer to do what is needed to make the story worth reading.

(on a personal note Gege might just need to cut back on ending all of our favorites before we loose our minds)

[anonimusunnoaniswriting]

I think a part of me died this chapter. This might have been the worst one yet. I don’t think i can do it anymore. The tragedy of Satoru’s character is so beyond diabolical and evil that it’s unfathomable at this point. I am seriously considering dropping the manga bc wtf Gege?

I've taken a while to answer this because I wanted to really think about my answer and then reply...

I can feel the pain in your words anon. It is truly vile the way these characters and the story is being treated, and as a writer and reader, regardless of what the background meaning is that is being portrayed, I do not believe this is literarily a good story any longer.

There is only so much shock value one can insert into a tale before desensitising and subsequently losing one's audience, which is what I believe is happening here as we speak.

A lot of us, I know – me included – use fantasy and media to escape from the already difficult world we live in. This is okay. This is very valid. It's a healthy coping mechanism for many. But this kind of repeated emotional turmoil doesn't allow us to escape our regular life like we expect and so it becomes difficult to continue on.

So I understand you wanting to drop the manga. Even if you don't feel this way, it's still not nice to have to get invested in a character and immediately lose them and see them mutilated.

One thing I would however say and I hope this might cheer you up a little is that you never have to accept canon. You don't have to continue. This is the beauty of art. You are not obliged to sit through a movie you don't like. And instead, there is (so very luckily) a most WONDERFUL community of people and fans here that are treasure troves of stories and art. I know, I am behind on reading a lot of their work, but so many writers pull at my heartstrings. So many. And I love going and seeing their re-imagined versions of the stories of these loved characters.

So, Anon, I guess what I'm trying to say is, whether you continue the manga and anime, or you give it up, this community will be here. To fill your needs. To offer comfort. There's so many of these people who are so wonderful. Some will even take requests from you. It's just so much brilliance. You will not be alone. And your fav, they'll be right with you. 🩷

Much love,

Noni.

Ps. If you need, I'm just a click click away. ✨✨

[m1ckeyb3rry]

Omg megumi and Yuta are my favs after Inumaki LMAO (I’m Lowk salty that we did not get ANY lore exploration of Inumaki but maybe it’s better that way so he stays alive atp)

No the hating mainstream things to be “unique” is so eugh honestly like just because somethings mainstream doesn’t mean it’s basic…but exactly I’ve definitely lost the spark with jjk I think it just got too confusing? And I was losing the essence of the story and idk I know geges said before that that they’ve wanted to end jjk earlier but something about the editor saying no…? I feel like sometimes the lack of motivation kinda peeks through with how the story was done….which I get because writers block/art block and just burn out in general is so real I just wish circumstances were different lmao…

Also yeah the “jjk has the best female characters” ideation…hmm..it’s def better than the blatantly sexualized ones but at this point it kinda feels like a bare minimum/low standard thing that they ARENT sexualized like in most shounen content that makes people say this (i agree like wtf happened with yuki we barely saw her honestly?? Don’t get me started on tsumiki i was expecting them to take a route where maybe she’d actually wake up and play a more conscious role but what the hell was that)

NO LITERALLY im all for analysis and leaving some things open ended but idk in jjk it was just excessive that it turned into confusion like…the constant guessing and insane analysis that needed to be done to clarify things or try to parse things together is not my favorite…agreed that the story should not have to rely on deep level analysis to be understood!

Yeah I’ve definitely lost my emotional ties with jjk its just like well I got this far i might as well see how it ends

LMAO WIGGLY that made me think of a worm on a string but I see what you mean! One track soccer mind doesn’t give much room to explore lolll but it was executed very well hehe

LMAOO it’s the pipeline of shitting on side characters to loving them but I can’t with his hair cut…also don’t think he’s ugly like I guess he’s objectively relatively good looking? But yeah I never fully saw the appeal (it’s funny because I know a good amount of people who prefer him to Rin when I’m the opposite lol) and the Gojo aura LOL

THE ACCURACY IS INSANE the way I would have never known if you didn’t mention it (I don’t think I would’ve even noticed if I wrote it) the fact checking goes crazy LMAO but I love it honestly the research def gives the story more depth and feel to it rather than just a one shot/story that kinda just floats in the void of the universe or something…gives it ties to reality and an actual grounding in the world! (This was worded so badly lmao)

It’s always Karasu….I think it’s partially also because some manga scenes of him are a little goofy because they give him that smile that almost cuts across his entire face to give him that kinda evil looking smirk….and the anime style kinda striking that awkward balance of maintaining those features but not putting enough detail to go full asshole def makes it a little goofy LOL (but in art they put more effort into like the S2 trailer/teaser visual he looks great with all the shading)

And LMAOO IKR!!! I always think back to that I’m like KURONA WAS 4??? Bro wasn’t even on the field in the u20 match so I was Lowk a bit shocked haha, iirc Kiyora was also 5?? Like the discrepancy makes me laugh ik people probably developed during the second selection but the drastic change always gets me

Your tag with the arrow has me feeling idk why I found that so funny LOL

Also SHSHS drowsy allergy medicine is the worst…I hope you weren’t having a severe reaction or anything and also that you feel better soon!!!

-Karasu anon

there’s def a lot of areas where there could be more lore (rika’s character page is so odd??) just because of how many characters there are i think!! but i do feel like the story is wrapping up so some things might just be left as questions. or not, who knows!!

yeah there’s def a cycle of like thing gets popular -> everyone loves it -> it becomes so over saturated that people start hating on it to be different -> it becomes overhated -> in a few years everyone realizes it wasn’t that bad. the biggest problem w the “hating as a trend” is that it takes away from legitimate criticisms of the work, as fans will lump it into general hating for no reason.

besides just analyses being so important for even basic comprehension of the plot, i’ve noticed a lot of the storyline is dependent on random interviews gege has done. like nobara’s death only being confirmed because of an interview years after it was written is RIDICULOUS to me (even though i already thought she was dead tbh but there was enough speculation in the fandom that it obviously wasn’t clear enough in-story). things like interviews and character pages should give you fun additional information that can help you expand on a character (oh rin likes horror games!! karasu is scared of the water!! etc etc) but it shouldn’t be the MAIN source of KEY info on a character. idk i think a lot of people love what jjk could be at this point and not necessarily what it is.

YESS i honestly was not super pleased by the female characters in jjk!! they are cool, and they COULD be well written, but they aren’t. i think in terms of its contemporaries, demon slayer does female characters better than jjk (again, not saying they’re perfect because they aren’t, but, say, shinobu is a stronger character to me than even maki).

jjk is a sunk cost fallacy for me HAHA i’ve been into it for over 2.5 years now so i have to see how it ends but i don’t really care atp what happens 😭 i’m like an unbiased outsider…idk it’s sad i wish i could’ve stayed invested but i only even know leaks are dropping because my social media blows up whenever they do.

OMG i also think rin is better looking than sae but i find sae easier to write for some reason?? idk why 😫 like sae is canonically only interested in soccer at least rin likes horror stuff but honestly between the two of them it feels easier to separate sae from soccer than rin?? if only marginally so hahaha. sae occasionally expresses regret at only knowing abt soccer so i feel like he’d be more willing to open himself to new experiences if sufficiently prodded whereas rin is SO invested in soccer (because soccer = his relationship w his brother) that he doesn’t even seem like he could have a proper friendship w someone let alone an actual relationship 😔

it really is always karasu…i do think manga can get away w exaggerating certain features (ex karasu’s smirk) that anime can’t so they have to figure out a way to balance it — maybe it’s the static nature of manga vs the motion of anime?? although karasu hasn’t been smirking much in pxg vs bm 😕 give my boy his swag otoya back!! HAHA but i also think he was such a background character in that one scene of season one that they just didn’t gaf abt him. he’s looked really good in all of the s2 promotional material so i have faith he will be done well!!

KURONA AND KIYORA MY RANDOM AHH KINGS 🙏🏻 they came outta nowhere but they’re slaying atm…ig the hundred goal thing only tested a very specific aspect of playing soccer?? like shooting without anyone on you which doesn’t really translate to an actual game 🤔 like in bllk vs u20 they needed defenders and midfielders who wouldn’t necessarily score but were integral to the game 👆🏻 plus they didn’t all go in at the same time so better players like tabieitaken and shidou were ranked lower than randoms like tokimitsu probably just because they entered later 🤷🏻‍♀️

it wasn’t that bad!! i just got like overwhelmingly sleepy because i haven’t taken any in forever so i just crashed instead of staying up longer like i usually so haha. but i’m hoping to get the one shot out soon!! it’s pretty dumb but more karasu content is more karasu content 🤩

[cosmicjoke]

Yeah, this was truly a BS way to end this fight. The Culling Games arc was when things started to really go rapidly downhill with this manga, and it's only gotten progressively worse since. And you're right, at this point, I think Gege really meant it when he said he hated Gojo. I used to think he was just being a troll, but it's hard to believe that now. We got no emotional payoff with this. No heart to heart with Megumi and Gojo, no concern for his students, it seems, despite him claiming over and over that he only wanted to make a better world for them and preserve their childhoods, and the real kick to the nuts insult is Gojo flat out admitting Sukana was stronger. I'm having the same issue you are in asking, what was even the point of this entire fight? With Gojo saying Sukana was holding back the whole time, it renders the entire three month affair pointless, totally pointless. Just like the entirely of the culling games was pointless, going nowhere in terms of plot or character progression, this fight was meaningless. It seems like Sukana could have just killed Gojo at any point with the way it's ended here, and yet, for months on end, we got chapter after chapter of Gojo seemingly beating the shit out of Sukana, Sukana being nervous or on the back foot several times, Sukana seeming to genuinely struggle. And with one dialog box, all of that gets undone, and we as readers realize we've wasted all of our time even wondering about the outcome of this fight, even reading it and worrying over it. It was all a sham from the start, all a shameless tease and manipulation on the author's part, all for the sake of having a "shock" ending. Of course, nobody's shocked. Everyone knew Gojo was going to die at some point in this story. But to have it be like this is the epitome of lame. Gege is a terrible writer. The Hidden Inventory arc was the height of this manga in terms of having any, actual emotional resonance and impact, and since then, it's just devolved into another, dumb as dirt Shonen, with fight after fight after fight, made all the more mind numbing by the deeply convoluted expository info dumps we had to contend with every chapter.

And it's true what you say. Gojo never got to win a single, important battle in this whole damn series. For someone stated to be "the strongest", in a story which has become so defined by it's rock 'em, sock 'em fights, that sure does stink. It's like Vegeta from Dragon Ball at this point, but hell, Vegeta's gotten more character development and introspective moments than Gojo. Gojo was gone for three years, locked in that stupid box without a single panel to even show us how he was coping. Then he gets released. We don't get to see him dealing with the fallout of Nanami dying, or anyone else that bought it during the culling games. He just jumps straight into the fight with Sukana, it lasts for three months, with the false appearance of being an actual contest, only for it to end with Gojo dead and the revelation that Sukana was just fucking with him this whole time.

How anyone could call this good writing is beyond me. It's the worst.

I really don't even care what happens in this story at this point. Gege should do us all a favor and put this damn thing out of it's misery.

You know... I kept my faith all this time. I thought, the Yuki fight was just a one time slip. Everyone makes mistakes. The atrocious way the Culling Games arc played out will be redeemed by this fight that was foreshadowed in the literal third chapter of the manga. But Gege went and fucking did it again, he ruined a fantastic overall fight with an atrociously bad ending. Like when you think about it, he didn't even really change it up... Gojo used a big suicide attack as his final move like Yuki, then it turns out to have accomplished nothing like Yuki, fucking hell he's even split in half just the same as she was. I seriously can't believe it.

We all knew Gojo had to go out in some form or another. The "It's Gojover" memes didn't exist for nothing. But to have it be done off-screen??? On top of that we get a whole purgatory sequence where he just outright says Sukuna was stronger and that he's just happy he got a good fight out of all of this? He doesn't give a fuck about his students or what will happen to them after this? His adopted son? What was even the point of him saying that if the only reason Sukuna wins it's due to Mahoraga? Why was Sukuna supposedly "nervous" last chapter if it turns out he wasn't even really trying?

We all made jokes over the years about Gege saying how he hates Gojo, about it being self-deprecation or he's just messing around... But I can only conclude that Gege actually despises his creation for a character assassination this bad. Gojo legitimately has never won an important fight in this entire series, all the way until the bitter end. He always loses and always leaves a mess for his students to clean up. All his talk about being the strongest, "I will win", it was all bravado and no substance. Like I really can't believe it, Gojo has never won a fight that mattered. Not once.

Pending some sort of galaxy brain reversal from Gege (which I do not have enough copium in the tank for to truly believe in but hey... RCT comes from the brain and his head is still attached...), this is no doubt the worst chapter of the entire manga. This was the fight we were all waiting to see happen from the very beginning, foreshadowed in chapter 3, and the man just straight up fumbled the ending because Gege has a boner for the villains to win.

And if this disrespect was not enough, this pivotal chapter ends with fucking KASHIMO of all fucking people swooping in the steal the last panel signaling the start of a new fight. Wtf is this guy even going to do against Cleave which can now cut through the world itself? We don't even get the time to mourn Gojo. For fuck's sake.

[autumn-foxfire]

Bro im so tired of twitter

So the latest thing ive been seeing a lot of are things like 'jujutsu kaisen is just a copy of naruto' or 'do you likw jjk or bnha?' A whole lot of compering and arguing and belitteling one show to lift up the other

Here are my hot takes

1. Nothing exists in a vacuum, everything has been inspiered by something and Gege has been very open about his inspirations (which dont even include that much naruto)

2. You can, stay with me now, like more than one show

Like im so tired of ppl compering shit and tearing one show down because they like the other. Like i like both jjk n bnha. I like jjk more cuz its more suited to my tastes. But also i think bnha has been really good recently n has some of the horis strongest writing to date and im very excited to see what comes next. Just because i like one show over the other doesnt mean i suddenly hate the other or think its badly written. I can appriciate both their merits. N the comparisons with naruto are really annoying cuz like 🙄 who cares. Naruto is one of the big three, a lot of mangaka who work now read it as kids OF COURSE they'll be inspiered by it just like they'll be inspiered by bleach n one piece. News flash just because one show did something first doesnt mean its automatically better than any other show that does it. Saying 'jjk is good but it would be nothing without naruto' means NOTHING. Jjk has its own themes and character n ideas and sometimes there will be similarities with other media cuz of fucking course there will be, humans all have similar ideas, no one is 100% original, its the way different authors spin n retell those ideas that actually matter. Shonen jump is basically a brand of its own they are gonna push conent similar to content shonen jump readers like. The fun part is watching all the different authors taking pieces of those formulas n fitting them together in new and interesting ways.

Sorry for the rant im just really tired of 'the war between jjk n bnha fans' or 'jjk can never be as good as naruto' or whichever it is today. Idk i guess ppl are bitter that jjk became so massivly popular so fast but??? Who cares???? If you dont vibe with it just dont watch it and leave the fans alone??? I didnt like that akudama drive was so popular last season but i didnt go to its fans n rant about how their show isnt good as this other show, just let ppl enjoy things??? Nobody is forcing you to say jjk is the best thing ever, nobody is forcing you to watch it. Just go enjoy the show you do like??? N if u like jjk u can also like bnha n others???? You can like more thsn one thing??? Idk im just fuckin tired of dumbass bullshit like this n ppl making drama for no reason at all

Like imagine if this was how i talked about my fav shows 🙄 re creators is better then beastars because its female characters are more prominent and beastars is better then talentless nana because it has better world building, but talentless nana explores trauma n abuse better then re creators n re creators has way more to say about nature of story telling then beastars

WOW ITS ALMOST LIKE ALL SHOWS HAVE STRONG N WEAK POINTS N THEIR OWN THEMES AND STORIES TO TELL FUNNY THAT

If people don’t think Gege isn’t inspiring Hori too, then they really need to look at the character design for the sixth holder of OFA who looks like a re-coloured version of Inumaki <.< It’s a two way street when it comes to inspiration because surprise, surprise, both JJK and BNHA are two of the most popular manga and will also inspire writers :p

There has also been a lot of comparisons between characters in Naruto and JJK recently too, a popular one being Sakura and Nobara, and I can’t help but roll my eyes at most of those comparisons. Especially when Nobara’s story isn’t even finished yet compared to Sakura’s which is complete (unless you include Boruto but no one like Boruto). It’s such a moot thing to do. At least give Nobara a chance to develope before you declare her to being treated as bad as Sakura was T-T

I don’t know why people always feel so threatened when the see a new manga get popular, maybe because they don’t like to see the flaws in their favourite work become that bit more apparent because another writer did it better (and lets be honest here, Gege is much better at writing female characters so far and Hori’s females have always been a point of discussion because of how he writes them, it’s not like JJK is showing us something we haven’t already noticed).

As you said, there will be parts in Hori’s story that will be better then Gege’s and vice versa, but that doesn’t mean the whole of their works are bad and we should feel bad for liking them.

You know, I love to compare my favourite mangas personally. When I started watching BSD I noticed how many of the characters reminded me of DRRR ones and I wonder if it’s because Kafka was inspired by Narita. Being inspired isn’t a bad thing (as long as you don’t completely copy someone elses work) but you’d think it’s the worst sin in fandom with the way some talk about it.