#Bruce didn't just took an interest in Dick by seeing his parents' murder and that's it

[littlefankingdom]

People keep reblogging my addition, but I have more to say.

Dick also just lost everything he knew, not only his parents, but his life with the circus. Alfred's cooking, as good as it can be, is different from what he is used to, and this difference must reminds Dick of everything he just lost. He cannot eat it because it's not what he knows, it's not the food that used to make him feel full and happy, it's different. It's a reminder that his parents are never coming back.

Chips, store bought chips, they are the same as before. It's not a reminder that he lost everything, he can close his eyes and imagine that his parents are right here. So chips are the only thing he likes.

And I think Bruce realizes that, how uncomfortable the other foods make Dick, and he is happy to have found something Dick can stomach with his grief. With time, Dick's pain will become more bearable for him to it "real" meal, but for now, the boy needs to eat, and if he can only stomach chips, than chips it is.

Little Dick and his chips in Batman #54

[navree]

how would you write Jason and the Batfam in the ASOIAF Universe 🤔👀

Ah, the two Great Interests (at least in terms of this week and what people want me to talk about)

The big thing is that I think Jason should get a dragon. You may be asking why Jason should have a dragon, and the simple answer is that I like dragons, and I like Jason, therefore Jason should have a dragon. This isn't even ASOIAF specific, if the main comics gave Jason Todd a dragon that he used to fuck shit up and murder all the various people who have victimized him over the years I would never speak a negative word about DC ever again for the rest of my life. #GiveJasonToddADragon

In all seriousness, Batfam can actually work in that sort of environment (which is why there are a LOT of medieval/fantasy AU fics out there for them) because they don't fall into the traditional format of the nuclear family, which is only a concept that really developed in the mid-20th century. Families in the times that ASOIAF pulls from, and thus ASOIAF by extension, are a lot more fluid, and so is the Batfam, for all that they are an actual family. I may have mentioned this before, but there are really only three of the kids that have actually considered Bruce as "Dad", no ifs ands or buts, from start to finish: Damian, as Bruce is his biological father, Cass, because David Cain is a piece of shit, and Jason, either because writers make Willis abusive to the point where Jason wants nothing to do with him, or even because he'd already been out of his life so significantly at such an early age due to jail-time and was unlikely to re-enter it so Jason just didn't really have space to view him as a father at this point. Everyone else has significant relationships with parents, particularly fathers, that's important to their characters (Steph's father is why she become a vigilante, Tim was actually really attached to his parents and has spent more time identifying primarily as a Drake than a Wayne, John Grayson's murder is a very significant and impactful event in Dick's life and someone he continuously honors for the rest of it, Barbara's dad is literally alive and present in her life and a good parent and Bruce's fuckin friend), so it does fit more into the fluidity of a world where warding and fosterage exists as part of the family dynamic, like how Ned spent more time in Eyrie with Robert due to both being fostered by Jon Arryn, and the bonds that creates.

So when it comes to Batfam, I could see, for example, Tim being the son of a more minor House being fostered by Bruce, especially if he's, like, the liege lord (and given that even in the main comics Bruce is basically more famous than God, him being a Lord Paramount of one of the Kingdoms would track), and eventually developing a bond similar to what we saw between Ned/Robert and Jon Arryn. And given that there was a tendency for brides to live among the groom's family during the betrothal period, if you wanna add some TimSteph, then that's a way to do it too (plus given the sexual mores of Westeros, you can even keep Tim two-timing both Steph and his girlfriend at the same time like in the comics! ok sorry that's the only bit of Tim-bashing you'll get I don't hate the little guy but he did do that). If you want to hew close to the comics and thus explain, for instance, why Damian wasn't raised by Bruce from the getgo but kept away for the first ten years of his life, you could have him be a bastard (from an Essosi noblewoman) that Bruce only finds out about, explaining why he has non-biological children/heirs as well. With Dick, I'd imagine him starting out not as a foster situation the way that we'd make Tim, but maybe a squire or smth while Bruce was pursuing knighthood when younger (to pull on how Bruce is significantly closer in age to Dick than his other kids and was a lot younger when he took him in) who takes on a more and more familial role as his parents die, given that young squires aren't out of keeping (Dunk and Egg, for example), and if Batman is The Dark Knight, what is Robin if not the squire?

For Jason specifically, I think you can keep a lot of his original backstory. If we assume that Bruce is lord paramount of a Kingdom with a big urban center, for instance, or even just plainly the king and thus has lands that include the largest urban center in Westeros, King's Landing, you can keep Jason's background as the child of an underprivileged family who eventually has to live on the streets and do a lot of unsavory things to survive after his parents are no longer able to take care of him. How he'd come into contact with Bruce is a bit more of a question, but as HOTD has shown us, half of these noble fuckers like to spend their time sneaking out of their castles and prancing around in hoodies to mingle with the commoners, and Jason in any universe is going to catch Bruce's eye because he's just that special (my favoritism is showing I'm aware but I don't care). And if Bruce is a lord/monarch who is unmarried and without children, and thus without heirs (especially since his family is small as Hell, Kate and her immediate fam are basically his own blood relatives until Damian comes along), then adopting a child to be his heir isn't as hard a sell (not to mention it is a common fantasy/mythological trope, to say nothing of how the Romans did this all the time).

One big change is that Jason probably doesn't die. Resurrection exists in ASOIAF, as we see with Beric Dondarrion and Catelyn/Lady Stoneheart and are likely gonna see with Jon Snow if George finishes TWOW before the 22nd century, but it operates on a much different level than how DC does it. Resurrection is an arduous, heinous process, deeply rooted in magic, and what gets brought back is never entirely the person who died. Beric doesn't remember a good chunk of his life before dying by the time we see him, nor does he really act like a human being, and Lady Stoneheart is of course entirely different to Cat, not to mention still physically quite dead due to the time that elapsed between her murder and being brought back. DC doesn't do that, resurrection doesn't have these heavy consequences for the resurrected party, as seen with Jason. Because Jason did not, in fact, come back wrong, he came back changed, and that change would have existed even if he survived, because Jason's change in morality and motivation is heavily influenced by his suffering at the hands of the Joker and the failure of those around him to prevent that or otherwise save him from it. So Jason in an ASOIAF verse likely doesn't die, but probably has something closer to the Arkham games/my theory on Rhaenys the Conqueror during the first Dornish War, in that at some point he is missing and eventually presumed dead, and likely not in a good physical place for a good chunk of time, before he somehow ends up far away from home to recuperate (in Essos? since we made Talia an Essosi noblewoman and she's key to his regaining faculties in the comics).

There'd also be a lot more social consciousness as it relates to oppression in Jason than we see in most ASOIAF characters. Jason as a character is someone who is defined by injustice, injustices done to him and injustices done to others (it's why, if I ever get a genie wish and am able to make the Batman show I literally have in my head, a lot of the focus of Jason's Robin tenure would absolutely be on how he wants to make his vigilantism something that does significantly help underprivileged communities that Bruce and Dick previously ignored because neither of them had to live on that side of the line, I have a lot of thoughts on that). So I could honestly see him inhabiting some kind of role similar to Dany, someone who focuses on liberation and equality once in the position and means to do so, because they remember what it's like to be subjugated. And honestly, if we make Bruce the King of the Seven Kingdoms, then rather than Jason's "lost days" being about him traveling the world to learn how to kill before coming back to hone the Red Hood plan in Gotham, he can actually have a sorta similar arc to Dany, though less white savior. Moreso Jason, as he travels through Essos, continues some socially aware tacts that he already had in Westeros (I'd see baby Jason under Bruce's care trying to do a lot of Rhaenys the Conqueror/Good Queen Alysanne proto-progressive movements and reforms in Westeros), repeatedly ends up joining in and helping out already existing struggles, and kinda accidentally developing a cult of personality because OMG, it seems like everywhere the masses rise up against the oppressors there seems to be this guy there helping out, let's find out who he is and band together. And then rather than Red Hood, he does his thing in Essos and invades Westeros to make Bruce's life super difficult.

Two things I'm not sure how to translate from main Batfam to ASOIAF would be 1) the women's roles, because Westeros is intensely patriarchal and deeply misogynistic in a way that the DC world isn't (it's still got a shitton of sexism, cuz our real world does, yes, but not on the level of Westeros), though I'd absolutely keep Bruce and Cass's intense connection and Barbara's disability 2) vigilantism. Bruce's, and by extension the Batfam's, vigilantism exists due to a set of circumstances that don't exist in an ASOIAF AU. Batman exists because Gotham has a structure of law and legal enforcement that is thoroughly inadequate to the point that actually using it is basically futile, so someone needs to operate outside the law to actually do anything to help people. This doesn't exist in ASOIAF because the ultimate arbiter of law in Westeros is the king and then to a lesser extent the lords paramount of each Kingdom. There is no police force or broader legal system that can so utterly fail that outside intervention is needed, there's just one guy, who is possibly even Bruce himself. He's the judge and the jury and the police and the court system all in one go, he wouldn't need Batman. So that element of it is likely removed, for more of a focus on familial intrigue and drama and dynamics.

Those are just some basic thoughts based on what started bouncing in my head when I saw this ask. I hadn't thought too much about this beforehand, so this was a fun little thought exercise! If anyone has any thoughts on expanded roles for other people I kinda brushed past or didn't mention or plot stuff, by all means feel free to add them or chitchat! This was cool!

[batmanrogues-scenarios]

Thoughts on Arkham City

The beginning with Catwoman was so interesting and Two Face suddenly showing up was a nice little scare

The Strange name definitely sparked interest

Lmao Bruce "Billionaire. Millionaires are so last year." was fucking brilliant.

Hugo knowing Bruce secret is honesty so good of idea

Wait, how did Wayne's destroyed Penguins family?

Two Face isn't sexist, he believes in beating ANYONE if deserved

I like Harleys new outfit

Bane wanting to help Batman is interesting concept

The fake out with Joker being dead was pretty good

Selina calling Pamela Red is so cute

Penguins museum is pretty creepy

Batman is a fucking dick for what he had done to Viktor Really Bat? You tell people enough?

Never heard of woman who knew Rā but it's cool they added Talias assassins

Not big on Talia x Bruce

Really Oracle? What if Bruce is killing them? Do they forgot Clay face exist?

It's so weird seeing Robin in costume but he's adult. It just it hits with itself so much

Don't like Talias outfit + Rā's challenge was kinda boring

Rā is an asshole

I did not expected Hush to be the face killer, I thought Black Mask or Clayface

Of course Joker took Nora, at least

Batman isn't enough of dick to leave her

Heard of Azreal before but dude is still weird

I didn't expected Hatter's to sound so cute but his scene is seriously creepy

I didn't expected Zsasz to want his parents back, that's cool motiv

When I saw Deadshot have to assassinate Bruce I was like "Oh, he will go for Hush"

Zszasz story is actually pretty good

Ok but Talia saving Bruce was nice

FINALLY we're back to Catwoman, I honesty forgot about her

Did Pamela wanted to murder Selina because she didn't watered her plants? Lmao

Very bad move with plant Catwoman

Selina not wanting to leave Batman is so sweet

Aight, nevermind then

Wait it's over?!

Nah, there's no way it's happening, it's gotta be Fear Toxin or something

Oh it was multiple choice

Of course Batman is willing to sacrifice life's for sword lady; at least he make a good choice in the end

Hugo feels like someone who sees problem and decides best resolution I'd to eliminate it

Hugo deserved that

I did not expected Rā to kill Hugo

Of course there's Protocol 11

Rā death was kinda funny

I knew Joker was dead because I watched Arkham Knight I the best wasn't expecting it to be because of Talia

I'm with Bayman on no killing but at least she took it in her own hands instead of pressuring Batman into it

Ok twist was pretty good

Might not like Talia but she's good girlfriend

Joker looks horrible; wait then who played him?

Ah Clayface; I like how he just wanted to play Joker. Wait his name is Karlo? I knew him as Matt from BTAS, I just learned few villains use the same name (it isn't going to be confusing at all)

Bat just fucking slashed him into pieces

Bruce with sword is kinda cool

Fact that Batman actually thought about not giving Joker cure but it was Joker action that lead to it being destroyed is ironic

Bat carrying Joker like Robin is nice reference

Not suprised Bat didn't anserw Gordon's question, he has the right after that whole fuckery

Cat just woke up and immediately started kicking ass like it was nothing

Oswald being afraid of Cat lol

I feel like game is going for too long with Selina trying to get her stuff back

Batman disappearing is quite interesting

Ah, so it was Tim

Harley basically went emo

Tim deserves a Thank You

No, Batman isn't alright

I think I liked it more than the first one but overall it was pretty okay game.

Tapes :

Riddler

I love how defeated he was at the end

Catwoman

I like how they went more in depth of her character; it would be cool to see Holly

Mr Freeze

I really like his origins, him trying to freeze neighbors pets was an interesting detail

Joker

I like how they used Killing Joke as hid backstory, and theory that what he's saying is true just to fuck with Strange

Penguin

He is such asshole but in unlikeother versions he's an idiot, not big of a fan

Two Face

I love the voice acting, I wish they could talk more about Bruce that would be interesting

Zsasz

I talked about it earlier but I love his backstrory, there is actual group of people who thinks like that and it's scary

Mad Hatter

That was both sad and terrifying, he is completely detached from reality

[firefrightfic]

Ok did you think that Batman 45 was NOT what would have actually happened if Bruce didn't become Batman? Because Idk lol I think Dick would have become talon. I think really that Jason would have ended up in a terrible place from having to grow up and survive on the streets. Idk I think he would have either ended up dying, becoming an addict - addiction CAN run in the family so if he got high once it'd probably be easier to become addicted fast. BUT that would probably take a while to get into

Sum up for Batman 45 Jason - I think his life would have ended up much worse even if it wasn’t either of those things I’d mentioned. And Tim! I don’t think he’d be working in a cubicle lol. Drake industries?? Even if not he’s super smart. Anyhow what your thoughts - if u’d like to share maybe Also didn’t they look older than they do in canon now?

There were certainly a few aspects of the issue that came across as lazy and ill thought out to me, and the entire idea of the story arc first and foremost feels like padding, purely for the sake of having Bruce and Selina’s wedding be able to take place in issue #50. Now, I could be wrong. There could be more to be revealed in the next two issues that will justify the choices made here (I don’t, for example, know enough about Booster Gold to say if he’s really a stupid enough character to think doing something like this was actually a good idea. And I absolutely do believe some explanation for why any supers that go to Gotham turn into Jokers will happen), but you’re right, the rest of the Batfamily’s fates were what bugged me most.

Personal opinions below the cut.

Dick’s is the biggest. I just can’t see how, in a universe without Bruce, he would have landed on the idea of Batman himself? Except that Batman existing in every reality is something DC seem determined to cleave to. It would have made much more sense for a universe where Bruce never took up the cowl and Dick’s own parents still died that the Court of Owls would snap him up, since in post-52 canon his adoption by one of the most famous people in Gotham was the only reason why they didn’t. Or, they could have gone with the idea of Raptor successfully taking Dick in and raising him himself, which would have been very interesting to me to see. Other universes like Earth 2 have explored what kind of life Dick would live without Bruce as well. There he became a war photographer and married Barbara, at least until Apokolips came along and destroyed the Earth. Please read Earth 2, guys, it’s so good. Letting him become a cop would have worked too! But yeah, primarily for me if you wanted to give Dick a worse life in Bruce’s absence, the Court of Owls is right there. I would have been far more intrigued by him as a Talon than killer Batman aka Jason in BftC.

Jason’s… Jason’s is actually okay, the more I think about it? It is nice to see a universe where he’s doing well at least, and working with cars feels appropriate as a job he would go for (personally, I’d have loved to see him as a librarian or teacher, though *cough*). Maybe he even actually started off working in chop shops before breaking free and starting his own legitimate business. But if they explored a route where he became a full on criminal as Bruce always feared he would have been without his intervention my fanfic senses are tingling towards an involvement with Black Mask, or possibly gone the addict route that led to him becoming Father Todd in Flashpoint, that also would have felt a natural progression in terms of Jason’s pre-Batman backstory. They could have even done a Robin Hood type thing? I would be all kinds of down for criminal Jason still with a heart of gold.

(Or you know, maybe he just got murdered but didn’t come back. A page of a gravestone inscribed with his name would have 100% killed me. Ow.) 

But yeah, thinking it through, this one I don’t mind so much. It’s just not what I would have chosen. it also bugs me that it doesn’t actually feel like King thought it out much beyond, “haha tyres, geddit?”

Now onto Tim. Tim. As you said, it feels so wrong to see him stuck in a dead end office job, and that’s probably what they were going for (evidently sticking to the New 52 reboot of Tim’s parents not being wealthy business people the way they were originally, else surely he would be running Drake Industries by now). But my gut also tells me Tim would have found something else to turn his focus on. He’s smart, he’s capable. He’s always the one who says that he never actually wanted to be Robin, but did because he felt he had to. He’s also the most well-adjusted out of the lot. Getting stuck in a cubicle for the rest of his life doesn’t feel like him. I’m going to pretend he’s doing the Elliot Alderson thing and is secretly a social justice hacker only working this job as a cover.

Damian doesn’t exist without Bruce. This one makes perfect sense and I have no quarrel with it. I also loved seeing Talia stand up to Ra’s with “No, I will be the one who inherits your kingdom. No one else is worthy.” Go, Talia, go!

Duke’s is awful, but with them running the plot that anyone with powers turns into a Joker it works within the rules of the universe established so far. So… *flaps hand*

I do have to be honest, it’s a Wonderful Life style plots are never my favourite, and I did groan back when I saw the original solicitations for this arc come out, so i was somewhat biased from the start. But I also like Tom King’s writing and have really been enjoying his run on the series so far, so I hope he makes this end up better than it initially seems to be. Then again, maybe it’s because his focus is so intently on Bruce and Selina that was done with the Robins here feels like such a throwaway. I can’t say for sure, only wait and see what happens in the next two issues.