#Bookerstock
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Yeahhhhh i was keeping my response focused on the bad story but WOOF BaS' emphasis that Elizabeth is too weak because she's a woman is NOT GREAT. It's a repeated trend in the gaming industry to give female characters non lethal stealth gameplay, and Ken specifically saying Elizabeth is too weak to kill when like.... she is strong enough in infinite to carry and unconscious Booker while swimming. She pistol whips him with a wrench to knock him OUT immediately. Elizabeth can do damage when the script wants her to.
They gave her omniscience and super dimensional powers but then have her die to a big daddy despite all the tools she has available. You can tell her death was decided first and then they shoe horned every decision afterwards to make that ending work.
Infinite already laid down the ground work of Elizabeth being brutalized eye candy, I can never forget having to listen to her groan in pain as you pull wires out of her skin and tighten her corset around her injuries, so BaS is just escalation of that as it jumps head deep into torture zone. From her getting electrocuted in part one (less egregious because it happens to Bookerstock too), to then getting constant beat over the head, being the only playable character put through an on screen torture scene, to then being killed on screen, its all PRETTY UNCOMFORTABLE treatment of the first and only playable female character.
Elizabeth's whole character was ingrained with stereotypes and tropes about appeasing the male ego, and it gets so much worse in BaS when they decide she's weak and powerless. That she can't save herself so she'll lose the battle to win the war. It's so dumb
I'm curious, tell me why burial of sea sucks? Im not an infinite fan at all, I'm just curious. I can view it as Ken smashing his toys together.
You basically got it all on your own, BaS is ken smashing his toys together until they break. He got mad about BioShock 2 since he wasn't apart of it, and compared it to "someone dating your ex" and then decided he didn't want anyone messing with his stuff again, so he took his favorite characters from infinite, made the lore of the entire franchise revolve around them, and then killed them off so no one could use his favorites ever again.
Now the events of BioShock 1 are not the natural escalation of Rapture, it all happened because Elizabeth had a master plan she set into motion. It's annoying retconning that forces characters into a story they weren't a part of to answer questions no one was asking. It goes out of its way to contradict lore (esp from BioShock 2) to make a mess so it would be harder for there to be more games set in Rapture. It's a mean spirited and crude addition to the franchise that takes the fun out of the other games.
I'm sure I've voiced this at one point or another b/c my salt is eternal, but BaS is just trying to score fan service points of "here's rapture when its shiny" "here's cohen" "look we got a ryan cameo" to distract you from it being a mess, and it forgets that a lot of what worked in BS1 and BS2 was not showing you the heydays of Rapture. You're not supposed to see it when its new, Rapture is an ideal you can only dream of not a reality you can live in. The city has more power being a ghost, you can never match what someone imagines in their head.
#bioshock infinite#bioshock infinite burial at sea#burial at sea#elizabeth comstock#BaS Salt#cardboard cutouts#sorry this got rambly i did not sleep well HSDFJKSF
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one of the things I have gradually realised over time after the brainrot of being constantly online started to fade was how shipping culture always 1) favoured the men and 2) really ignored age differences and every time i remember I was guilty of that too once upon a time i just stare into the void and hear nothing but static because god that is so much regret
so of course one of the things I hated was everyone shipping Elizabeth with men much older than her, like players who were shipping her with Booker before they got to the reveal were knowingly shipping an 18 to 19 year old girl with a man twice her age and the closest to a "flirty" interaction they ever had was just Elizabeth asking if there was a woman in his life. yes i'm aware there are still people who ship them after that reveal but that's a them problem
And Elizabeth never gets older than 19 by the latest instalment in Burial at Sea if you presume she went hunting for Bookerstock ASAP, so then you had people shipping her with Atlas because people have that thing about shipping women with the men who hold them prisoner and/or torture them as their big meaningful interactions (see early Zu/tara and Rey/lo), and then you have them shipping her with Jack despite them having never interacted, Jack having no personality or character by design because he's an insert for the player, and where biologically and mentally Jack is in his mid-20s.
BioShock is kind of a wasteland when it comes to fandom shipping as it is because you have to go really deep into headcanon or just flat out ignore key interactions and canonical relationships and events, and I think with how fandom portrayed Elizabeth and shipping her most of the time it felt telling of the attitude of shipping women with anyone in general, because in just having to have Elizabeth be romantically involved with someone it was usually a man who was much older than her.
#bioshock#bioshock infinite#elizabeth comstock#i have been online since i was 13 and let me tell you#i have seen some shit that i didn't understand until yeeeaaars later#i don't think there's been any ships for elizabeth within bioshock canon that has a relatively healthy dynamic#my bias can only think of elizanor because eleanor is only a year younger and before i made that revelation even it was only two years#of course eleanor is a girl and because wlw ships for these two are rare i don't think she counts
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Headcanon Philosophy
What is and isn’t canon? In real life this is irreverent. Most projects that have had multiple writers, spanning several years and projects, will absolutely have internal conflict about what is and isn’t canon.
In Pokémon for example there’s been writers who say normal animals are alive and well. Writers who say normal animals went extinct when Pokémon arrived on the scene. And writers who say normal animals have never existed and everything has always been Pokémon. All of them technically have or had authority to say what is and isn’t canon, but all of them have different opinions, so what then is canon? Who knows.
So when a company or a property has no idea what canon is you must decide for yourself what canon is.
What I consider canon in Bioshock:
When it comes to Bioshock I follow a hierarchy of games to decide what is and isn’t canon. Everything in Bioshock 1 is canon, 100%. If something in a game made after Bioshock 1 contradicts an event or lore that was established in Bioshock 1, then whatever was stated in Bioshock 1 takes priority.
Everything in Bioshock 2 that doesn’t contradict the events and lore established in Bioshock 1, I consider canon. Sure, characters like Sofia Lamb, Gilbert Alexander, Jonny Topside, Grace Holloway, and Charles Milton Porter weren’t mentioned or even hinted at in Bioshock 1. But by the time Bioshock 1 starts Sofia Lamb, Jonny Topside, and Charles Milton Porter had all passed through the walls of Persephone. Two of them had been turned into Big Daddies, one of whom has already died. Sophia Lamb kind of works out as not having been heard of considering she was supposed to be erased from the public conscious, and how the Atlas/Ryan conflict has been hogging the spotlight since the Kashmir Bombing. Grace has always been poor in Rapture, and Jack sticks to the upper-class sections of Rapture, so it makes sense that Jack never hears about her. Stanley Poole and Augustus Sinclair don’t really contradict much of anything from 1.
Gilbert Alexander is the only one who’s existence outright contradicts stuff established in Bioshock 1. Such as Suchong being the only scientist who knew how to make Big Daddies and Little Sisters after Fontaine faked his death and Tenenbaum went into hiding. Which Gil’s existence contradicts because in Bioshock 2 he also worked for both Fontaine and Ryan working on the Little Sisters and Big Daddies. So at the end of everything I’ve just decided to headcanon him as having never worked for Fontaine, and instead have him be an independent ADAM researcher that Ryan brought in to learn the ropes on the Protector/Gatherer Programs from Dr. Suchong. Because Ryan didn’t trust Suchong due to his past for working for Fontaine, and he wanted options. Not to mention the Alpha Series design choice of not being fused with their suits makes a lot of sense if Ryan’s desire to be able to reuse the suits of dead Big Daddies was accounted for in their design. Because Ryan wanting to do exactly that was something Suchong complained about in Bioshock 1. So having Gil be someone brought in later, and the Alpha Series being planned with Ryan’s desires for less resource demanding Big Daddies works out so nicely.
Bioshock Infinite and Burial at Sea are a bit different beasts. I’ve always considered Infinite and Burial at Sea to not actually connect to the timeline we playthrough in Bioshock 1 and 2. In an infinite number of timelines, the idea that Bookerstock and Elizabeth manage to end up in the exact same timeline of Rapture that we see in Bioshock 1 and 2 is incredibly slim. So I consider very few things from Infinite and Burial at Sea to be canon to the Timeline of Bioshock 1 and 2. The Rapture in Burial at Sea is a different timeline to the Rapture in Bioshock 1 and 2, and is the same version of Rapture that Fink was stealing his ideas from in Infinite. Which is why the Burial at Sea version of Rapture has some things that Bioshock 1 and 2′s Rapture doesn’t have, like the Air Grabber. So for me to consider anything from Burial at Sea canon to what I’ll call the primary Rapture timeline it has so not conflict with anything from 1 or 2. Like the Adonis Luxury Resort being part of Olympus Heights makes sense, so even if it’s lore from Burial at Sea I can easily accept it as canon.
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F..k you Elizabeth you were the reason why the city of rapture collapse, risking so many lives of a city and selling Jack Ryan for just a stupid little sister, i don’t freaking care if Sally was going to be killed by atlas i really like the city it was better than having a city with a racist tyrant, got anything to say you piece of trash.
“S,,,sowrry”
come on,, saying she was the reason rapture collapsed is giving atlas way too much credit lol it was already doomed… but she definitely contributed.
idk burial at sea, but from what i’ve gathered, it seems that elizabeth’s reasoning behind knowingly setting into motion a whole lotta death and suffering is what paints her in a bad light. She sees that Jack will beat fontaine and rescue Sally… which is a good outcome, right? But she doesn’t consider the people, including other little sisters, she has doomed by rescuing atlas and his crew, the people on the plane.. she doesn’t consider Jack’s suffering, and yeah she knows he survives through it, but knowingly giving someone the means to mind-control another person is quite a big and bad thing. She wants to rescue Sally (but only sally), out of the goodness of her heart? or to diminish her guilt from a situation she created by selling Sally in the first place (that’s what she does, right?… selling a child to get at bookerstock. liz,, what happened to you?)
It’s a difficult moral dilemma though, because by bringing Jack to Rapture, all those little sisters get rescued and are given a second chance at life.. but at a dire cost. It’s kinda like the trolley problem. Do you allow Sally to die and condemn the other little sisters who Jack would’ve rescued? or do you intervene, saving them but killing others. How could you make that decision, these are human lives.
I think she would’ve made a great accidental villain, her guilt consumed her and drove her to do unforgivable things. It would’ve been cool to have her realise that too, for her to stop and think “oh no.. i’m the bad guy” and then maybe have found redemption somehow.
(edit: ok now i have learned more from Kash about it all and liz contributed MASSIVELY to the fall of rapture fghjklkjhghjk oh no)
#if tenenbaum can be redeemed then liz can too#but she would have to recognise her evil doings first#anyway! thats my take on a dlc i haven't played lmao
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I’m 99% positive both of those problems with the writing are because of Levine wanting so badly to close a nonexistent loop between B1 and Infinite.
Putting the other plotholes aside, a lot of Atlas/Fontainr doesn’t mesh with his character when he appears in BaS. For one, his dressing room doesn’t make sense. We learn in the novel prequel that, yes, Fontaine has taken on many identities to stay one step ahead, but that was prior to Rapture. Rapture was his long con, and he wouldn’t take unnecessary risks on an already BIG risk. And yet he has a dressing room, filled with multiple disguises, in a city where everyone is there by INVITATION ONLY. Sneaky as he is, Fontaine can’t play his disguise card because Ryan would catch on that there’s a bunch of names coming up that he doesn’t remember inviting. It wasn’t explained for Bookerstock either, and yet then he brings it up to Elizabeth when talking to her in Episode 2.
Speaking of that trigger phrase, Suchong has no reason to withhold it from Fontaine because a) Fontaine hired him for it and Suchong taught him everything else about Jack, and b) SUCHONG THINKS FONTAINE IS DEAD LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE. If Fontaine legit forgot to get the trigger phrase before faking his death, then Levine only proves to make him a stupid antagonist. If Suchong is holding the trigger phrase ransom against Atlas, then he would have to know Atlas was Fontaine, in which case WHY was he so convinced Fontaine was DEAD in a diary in the first game? There is no reason outside of this DLC that Fontaine wouldn’t have obtained every command programmed into Jack’s mind before switching to Atlas and faking Fontaine’s death. He even states Tenenbaum was present when they sent Jack to the surface, another person who didn’t know Fontaine and Atlas were the same person. The only reason it happens is because, again, Levine wants to cut his own loose ends to tie in a jumble of knots together.
As for Elizabeth, I think she is entitled to some revenge for what Comstock did to her as well as him deserving his dues for all the racist and montrous bullshit he’s pulled, but Elizabeth sacrificing another child for that revenge is VERY out of character, even with what she’s been through. Her going through with events in Episode 1 just doesn’t sit with her character, especially when she knew exactly what the outcome would be. It’s just bad writing in a setup for the worst BioShock DLC, where she sounded broken but more in-character than before. This characterisation might have worked if we had a story exploring the multiverse idea from Infinite, and we learned that BaS Elizabeth wasn’t OUR Elizabeth, but naaah. Elizabeth is cold in one episode and made to suffer bullshit after bullshit in the next.
None of the other protagonists died so brutally. Jack, depending on what you do with the sisters, dies in peace with his adopted family. Delta either gets his essence drained from him to guide his surrogate daughter (willingly or by force) or chooses to just let himself expire knowing his surrogate daughter is truly free. Booker lets various versions of the daughter he wronged drown him to undo their suffering, because he’s witnessed that suffering for himself and finds peace in what he sees as redemption. Elizabeth gets bashed around the head violently with Jack’s wrench and dies of blunt force trauma, all because she just... knew that she was gonna get killed off and actually asks Atlas to hurry things along. The only peace she has is that a girl she willingly allowed to die before will only die sometimes now. One of these things is not like the others.
And as for the ending, it’s worse, because as Levine himself stated once upon a time, there is no canon ending for BioShock 1 beyond defeating Fontaine. Elizabeth, according to Levine by that logic, was accomplice to the Rapture Civil War (among which several innocent people were still in Rapture to get caught in the crossfire), caused the above mentioned plane of uninvolved lives to die in a crash, and ignored any other better opportunities to change things in Rapture, all to save a little girl she doesn’t know and previously sacrificed. A third of the time. In a maximum of 1 in 3 timeline variations, Sally will survive, but the rest of the time dies horribly. Because Jack only chooses to rescue all the little sisters he encounters a third of the time, because there are 3 outcomes to his story and only one leads him to becoming a good person and a father and Sally’s rescuer.
That and Burial at Sea just turns Infinite into a prequel. A prequel that isn’t really important to the series at all save for Levine’s last bit of writing credit on a bad DLC.
Episode Two was just bull.
@lulusoblue
@sandercohen
I can’t stand how Burial At Sea Ep2 treats Elizabeth delivering the Ace to Atlas as some kind of final heroic move.
1. Why does he not already know the codephrase? How convenient that it’d fit his humble irishman persona so perfectly
2. Elizabeth wouldn’t be in this mess if she hadn’t been so bloodthirsty, and while it’d be one thing if this was ~the only way,~ it doesn’t at all prove her hands have been washed clean of blood.
She’s condemned those plane passengers to an early grave, and Jack to an abundance of suffering at Atlas’ hand, along with probably many other people by proxy. But who gives a horseshit if they aren’t cute little girls or drop wisecracks
#bioshock#burial at sea#episode two what episode two#BaS still makes me saltier than the ocean Rapture lives in#long post#sorry
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bookerstock replied to your post:can’t sleep? gif shit
loves on you
now i can sleep soundly <3
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bookerstock replied to your post: bookerstock replied to your post: boo...
oh god
:3333333
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bookerstock replied to your post:i ordered a pizza and bought red vines and am...
oh my god, the line up. wait for me.
of course!! pls bring popcorn that was my only oversight :|
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Burial at sea in a nutshell
#Bioshock burial at sea#Burial at sea#Bioshock infinite#Bioshock#Elizabeth dewitt#Booker Dewitt#Bookerstock#Comstock#Zachary Comstock#Zachary Hales Comstock#Seriously this was fucking stupid#Just revive the dead baby using the Vita-chamber#Before going on your revenge plan#You can see all the doors and what's behind all of them#You can even see Jack Ryan DYING AND BEING REVIVED MULTIPLE TIMES BY A VITA-CHAMBER#WHAT THE FUCK IS STOPPING YOU ????
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#bioshock infinite#bioshock infinite burial at sea#burial at sea#elizabeth comstock#zachary comstock#BaS Salt#bookerstock#cardboard cutouts#alien anecdotes
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there are a lot of dumb things in Burial at Sea but one of the dumbest is how Suchong was written to think ingestible plasmids was a good idea
like it’s an excuse to not make new assets and mechanics for Bookerstock stabbing a giant needle into his arm, fair enough, but then Levine had to justify why the easy superpower shots weren’t a thing in OG BioShock.
so what does he do? makes it so that ingestible plasmid take 10 times the ADAM to make
So if that’s the case, and we already have Rapture at a point where they were recycling a finite resource from corpses through mutated little girls, why the fuck even WOULD Suchong even consider putting these into production a good idea?! SUCHONG KNOWS BETTER THAN ANYONE HOW VALUABLE ADAM IS!!!
never mind that Columbia had vigors by the BUCKETLOAD, so where’s the explanation for how Fink got his hands on all that ADAM? did he have people go all the way down from the sky into the ocean to scoop out their reality’s own finite supply of ADAM slugs, if their reality even has them? if Rapture was having trouble passing around their share of slugs, how in the hell did it not come up in the main game how Columbia’s supposed mass production of vigors (because we rarely see people really use them) was from a scarce resource?
It all makes Suchong look stupid and shows that Burial at Sea really needed a proofread (or maybe Levine just didn’t care).
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bookerstock replied to your post:remember that time i wrote something called...
I don’t know what it is but I can tell id love it
no, you won't
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bookerstock replied to your post:i live in a house full of pathetic idiots
so come live with me
glaDLY
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AHHH HAPPY BIRTHDAY MY LOVE
AHH THANK YOU ANGEL
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#wants to make johanna clutch her chest
[jackie simply existing]
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bookerstock replied to your post: bookerstock replied to your post: idi...
i think i’m starting to assume you are a real life cat who can play the piano, which, you are… right?
dare i say it?
looks like... the cat... is out of the bag!
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