#Belos would be a perfect Frollo

[drbtinglecannon]

Op sorry to add on but you're a genius for this venn diagram

A few months ago someone on Instagram asked me who my favourite villain is and I responded by making this. I still think this is the best way to explain my Belos brainrot

He's just fun (to hate)

[lampmanliveblogs]

"Because it is within his Mind and it’s Hollow. This is the writers very subtly telling us Belos is an idiot." Ironically, this was not that far off from the actual truth. Whilst Philip's mind shows him to be arguably the darkest and most personally horrifying disney villain since Judge Frollo, it also showcases that there are some basic fact of reality that he's pointedly ignoring for the sake of his narrative, such as the fact that he sincerely believes Witch hunting is still revenant

(I'm assuming you meant to say "relevant" and not revenant. Though Philip would be considered revenant if he returned to the Human Realm)

The previous ask talked about this, about how the "upper layer" of Belos mind shows him as this perfect triumphant hero with no flaws and how this is because he is deceiving and deluding himself into actually believing these things. This part of his mindscape could very well be considered the hollow part of his mind, as it's all based on empty lies and the reality, which lies far below in the dark dead forest filled with decaying paintings show the truth.

The comparison between Belos and Judge Frollo is an interesting one, I think, since the characters have a couple of things in common. For one thing, they're both genocidal racists living in fear of witches. There is also the fact that both characters have strong religious symbolism surrounding them. Frollo is obviously a bit more on-the-nose with it, it's a vital part of the movie and his faith is an integral part of his character. With Philip/Belos it's not outright stated in the same way, but like... come on. And his takeover of the Isles, posing as a messenger of the Titan... there is a reason I call it a cult.

[awesomekaypumpkin]

The beginning of this, reminds me of The Wittebane Brothers.

[ultraericthered]

Yeah, Team Plasma was already sort of pushing their luck right out the gate with their white knight aesthetic and "liberate the Pokemon from trainers in the name of equality and justice!" crusade, as that marked them as the fourth "Team something-or-other" to be people using criminal means in the name of "good intentions" or a cause they feel is right and necessary to change the world for the better, and who act all self righteous about it, even when that's as drastic a departure from what Team Rocket was as it gets. Their leader being a fiendishly evil, devilish looking pope figure whose view of morality is so out of whack that he justifies himself, his cause, his deeds and his vision for the future as being innately righteous while deeming everyone with opposing views and differing ways of life as being the "evil" ones would've crossed the line into being just plain comical. And I get they'd be going for a Frollo, Belos, Light Yagami or Zamasu type person, but I can't imagine Junichi Masuda and the people writing the game for him would possess the talent to pull that off.

The Ghetsis we got instead was more like Colonel Muska from Castle In The Sky and Haido from the second Naruto movie - a self-obsessed, power-hungry madman who disguises his true nature and ambitions with a facade of moral superiority, dignified civility, and pure intentions, and knows how to play politics to his advantage, manipulating unknowing people to the furthering of his evil scheme. And who knows what a bad man he is but doesn't care because he believes he's perfect and it's everyone else who is lesser, and he will refuse at every turn any avenue for opening his mind up to seeing things any differently. This characterization, and how through it he was able to draw more like-minded, selfish and exploitative thugs into Team Plasma along with all the true believers, is what I believe saved Team Plasma's concept and made it really work, so like with Team Flare, I'm overall thankful they didn't go the initial draft's route.

I think this page from Pokemon Adventures sums Ghetsis up best:

Random thoughts based upon this post.

As the beta build of Pokémon: Black/White shows, there was originally a difference in Ghetsis' characterization. He originally was supposed to lean way more heavily into the self-righteous religious hypocrite mold: he truly did believe Pokémon training and the whole system around it being evil and wrong, raised N to believe the same, preaching against in in public, and sought to have it abolished by conquering the world and instituting his own system that hypocritically was far more harmful to people and Pokémon but Ghetsis is deluded into thinking it's good and just since he thinks he is good and just. In the finished product, Ghetsis has shifted toward being more of a politician than a pastor; he doesn't actually believe in the system as a moral wrong and only fools others into thinking it is to advance his own agenda: seeking to take over the world to satiate his insane narcissism.

Now of course there is a debate going on if the Ghetsis we could have gotten was better, or if the one we got is preferable. Proponents for the former say it would have made Ghetsis both more interesting and more frightening, which is fair enough - after all, the most frightening version of Ghetsis is the Pokémon Adventures manga version that re-incorporates the religious quality into his character even if largely as motifs rather than anything fundamental. Where I draw the line are those who also say that the beta version would have been better because having a villain who doesn't actually believe in the morality of what they're preaching somehow cheapens/betrays/ruins the story and its message / undermines N as a character.

I've said it before and I'll keep on saying it: this is bullshit.

First of all, let's purely focus on beta Ghetsis. His character archetype can be done very well, as I have noted with Disney's Frollo and Emperor Belos / Phillip Wittebane. The problem is...

....Well, just read that beta dialogue again!

"I will not yield although I am surrounded by the forces of evil!"

"How befitting for I, the hero of justice who will rule the world!"

"Why, why, WHY? Why does everything go the evildoers' way?"

It's just "I'm good, you're all evil!" over and over and over again.

What made the likes of Frollo and Belos work, beyond better-written dialogue, is that we actually get insight into their psyches, we are shown why they hold their hypocritical and extremist views and why they have a psychological need to double down on it when faced with adversity and opposing viewpoints. Frollo spent his life trying to be the most pious religious devotee there could possibly be, and doubles down when faced with realities that contradict this position. Belos murdered his brother over his religious beliefs, and now must double down to avoid admitting he was unjustified in committing the mortal sin of fratricide.

Ghetsis in the beta build doesn't feel like that sort of character. He feels like a strawman, namely of the PETA types who have long attacked the Pokémon franchise over the training and battling system. It's literally a character sharing that exact moral stance, framed in a religious way, who is themed name-wise, design-wise, and action-wise after the Devil. An embodiment of evil yelling that everyone else is evil while doing evil. He feels less like Frollo and Belos, and more like Oliver Crangle from the Twilight Zone episode "Four O'Clock".

And with that said, I turn back to the Ghetsis we have. Not only is the deceptive, cruel, narcissistic politician angle more realistic and relevant than ever given our current real life political situation, but he still succeeds in the exact same contribution to the story and its message / N's character as his beta counterpart: he is the moral's antithesis. He represents inflexible intolerance, the refusal to stop seeing things in black and white terms and accept other points of view. He may not believe in the Pokémon liberation cause he espouses, but he still does believe in himself. He's perfect, he's always right, he's the strongest and smartest and best-suited person to rule the world and dictate what everyone else does. The larger point wasn't him raising N to believe in Pokémon liberation, it was him raising N to be that same sort of person...and N ultimately not becoming it. N still retains many of his Pokémon liberation-based beliefs; what he no longer does is try to force them upon others and not consider others' beliefs on the matter. He is open to a dialogue on the matter, which is the exact opposite of Ghetsis who feels like there's no need for a conversation on anything because he believes he already has all the answers...and suffers a mental breakdown when he is unable to enforce those answers on other people and make them bow to his genius.

So as to where I stand on the matter: I'm glad that we ended up with the Ghetsis we did.