#Batman obviously doesn't trust their judgment

[nelkcats]

Crystal Warnings

Threats to Earth are not news to the Justice League. Neither is the fact that a threat is "too powerful" for them, what is new is that the U.S. government wants to provide them with help, since when have they ever wanted that?

It is a novelty that does not sit very well with Bruce, because he feels that there is something wrong with the situation. They had faced thousands of dangers but it is only now that they are offering something? Definitely suspicious.

However Clark's curiosity was only outweighed by Barry's desperation to find a solution so he agreed to listen to what the "GIW" had to say.

Apparently their current threat was very much connected to them, which Bruce was not surprised by, what did surprise him was that the threat was less of a threat and more of a warning of sorts. As usual, people had played with things they shouldn't, causing catastrophic results.

The organization that contacted them had some sort of crystal, they flatly refused to say where it came from but explained that it was very important to beings from another dimension, and they were trying to contain the threat but found it impossible.

What Bruce got out of that conversation was that the organization had greatly disturbed a civilization full of unknown beings for the sheer joy of it. And that their current enemy was nothing more than a being desperate to retrieve whatever the crystal was.

Clark, of course, asked them for the crystal, to which they seemed very reluctant but in the end agreed. And Bruce set about contacting Diana, because he was sure they needed a diplomatic intervention rather than an actual battle.

It became clear that the crystal was extremely important when the giant eldritch menace transformed into a desperate teenage girl the moment the crystal appeared in her field of vision. That was even more evident when hundreds of portals began to form around the place, different creatures scowled at the humans.

Bruce vowed never to place his trust in organizations outside the League and its allies again. He swore doubly so when the crystal stopped being a crystal and transformed into a groggy, sleepy teenager mid-conversation.

There really was a hell of paperwork ahead. But at least the world was saved from human stupidity, again.

[boyfridged]

i’ve been thinking a lot about what is so unique and appealing about 80s robin jay’s moral standing that got completely lost in plot later on. and i think a huge part of it is that in a genre so focused on crime-fighting, his motivations and approach don’t focus on the category of crime at all. in fact, he doesn’t seem to believe in any moral dogma; and it’s not motivated by nihilism, but rather his open-heartedness and relational ethical outlook.

we first meet (post-crisis) jay when he is stealing. when confronted about his actions by bruce he’s confident that he didn’t do anything wrong – he’s not apologetic, he doesn’t seem to think that he has morally failed on any account. later on, when confronted by batman again, jay says that he’s no “crook.” at this point, the reader might assume that jay has no concept of wrong-doing, or that stealing is just not one of the deeds that he considers wrong-doing. yet, later on we see jay so intent on stopping ma gunn and her students, refusing to be implicit in their actions. there are, of course, lots of reasons for which we can assume he was against stealing in this specific instance (an authority figure being involved, the target, the motivations, the school itself being an abusive environment etc.), but what we gather is that jay has an extremely strong sense of justice and is committed to moral duty. that's all typical for characters in superhero comics, isn't it? however, what remains distinctive is that this moral duty is not dictated by any dogma – he trusts his moral instincts. this attitude – his distrust toward power structures, confidence in his moral compass, and situational approach, is something that is maintained throughout his robin run. it is also evident in how he evaluates other people – we never see him condemning his parents, for example, and that includes willis, who was a petty criminal. i think from there arises the potential for a rift between bruce and jay that could be, have jay lived, far more utilised in batman comics than it was within his short robin run.

after all, while bruce’s approach is often called a ‘philosophy of love and care,’ he doesn’t ascribe to the ethics of care [eoc] (as defined in modern scholarship btw) in the same way that jay does. ethics of care ‘deny that morality consists in obedience to a universal law’ and focus on the ideals of caring for other people and non-institutionalized justice. bruce, while obviously caring, is still bound by his belief in the legal system and deontological norms. he is benevolent, but he is also ultimately morally committed to the idea of a legal system and thus frames criminals as failing to meet these moral (legal-adjacent) standards (even when he recognizes it is a result of their circumstances). in other words, he might think that a criminal is a good person despite leading a life of crime. meanwhile, for jay there is no despite; jay doesn't think that engaging in crime says anything about a person's moral personality at all. morality, for him, is more of an emotional practice, grounded in empathy and the question of what he can do for people ‘here and now.’ he doesn’t ascribe to maxims nor utilitarian calculations. for jay, in morality, there’s no place for impartiality that bruce believes in; moral decisions are embedded within a net of interpersonal relationships and social structures that cannot be generalised like the law or even a “moral code” does it. it’s all about responsiveness. 

to sum up, jay's moral compass is relative and passionate in a way that doesn't fit batman's philosophy. this is mostly because bruce wants to avoid the sort of arbitrariness that seems to guide eoc. also, both for vigilantism, and jay, eoc poses a challenge in the sense that it doesn't create a certain 'intellectualised' distance from both the victims and the perpetrators; there's no proximity in the judgment; it's emotional.

all of this is of course hardly relevant post-2004. there might be minimal space for accommodating some of it within the canon progression (for example, the fact that eoc typically emphasises the responsibility that comes with pre-existing familial relationships and allows for prioritizing them, as well as the flexibility regarding moral deliberations), but the utilitarian framework and the question of stopping the crime vs controlling the underworld is not something that can be easily reconciled with jay’s previous lack of interest in labeling crime. 

[destinyc1020]

There is no offence to anon, but comparing Paul Mescal casting response to the casting of Rob Pat's Batman and Austin B Feyd isn't the same, sorry. Robert Pattinson is an established actor. He was working with great directors whilst he was doing Twilight and after. Denis had seen Austin first from his performance in Taratino's film before Elvis and his play, whereas Paul, who is very talented, is mainly typecasted as introverted leads with emotional intensity. Yes, he was nominated for an oscar but so was Barry Keoghan and most ppl lnow hom from Saltburn. It's not the same as a leading extroverted man. It's not to say he can't do it, but it's not an established strength onscreen. He did play Stanley on stage do maybe he can bring that quality in this movie.

Trailers are weird nowadays, so I'll wait until November to judge his portrayal.

However, Denzel was a standout for me, and considering Paul is the lead, that worries me. Who knows, I could be very wrong, but I think ppl are justified to feel apprehensive. Not everyone is on filmtwitter, which is an echochamber for kissing indie white boys. Most ppl haven't seen his films unless they are in that bubble. This is his first blockbuster, and I wish him well. I hope for his sake, Ridely doesn't fck this up.

Idk Anon, I personally feel like people should just go see the movie FIRST before making such negative opinions about Paul's ability to act or carry this huge movie on his shoulders. 👀

I don't even think there needs to be that much apprehension honestly, because it's not like any of US put out millions of dollars to make this film. So why are people going to take a film so personally? 🤔

Why are things taken so seriously these days? It's JUST A MOVIE! It's just supposed to be entertainment.

I personally think Paul will do just fine? 🤷🏾‍♀️ Ridley Scott is no lightweight. He obviously chose Paul for the role for a reason, especially since I know he beat out countless others for this role.

I used to question things, but over the years, I've learned to just TRUST directors and their choices for their actors....especially when it comes to big films. I learned to trust the higher-ups with casting Tom for the Spider-man role, I learned to trust Baz (and also Denis) with casting Austin as Elvis (and Feyd). I learned to trust Disney/Marvel for casting Chadwick as Black Panther. I learned to trust Christopher Nolan for casting Heath Ledger as The Joker, etc.

Look, sometimes you just have to trust the directors. They see smthg in an actor and feel that they are the right person for the role that they envision in their minds.

It's just as simple as that!

At the very least, I'm going to reserve any negative judgments for AFTER I actually see the movie, because to me that's only fair.

[ambelle]

I’m glad that Titan’s didn’t have an actual love triangle in S3, or any season for that matter. I always felt like the whole DB rekindling was to check a box because the team was in Gotham; to show us (via flashbacks) his romance with Barb and why it (like his romance with Dawn in S2) wasn’t “the one”, S3 demonstrated how solid DickxKory’s relationship truly is. We got to see, simultaneously, Dick’s interaction with all his ex-lovers. He obviously cared for each, but Kory is the one that “gets him” both figuratively and literally. She’s the one he trusts enough to co-lead his vigilante super hero team, the one he’s raising a family with, living with and making day-to-day decisions with. If anything, DB was the catalyst to DK taking their partnership to a level that encompasses romance (again). They’re at a place where they feel comfortable enough to “try it again sometime.”

I was actually just talking about how Titans Babs is the version I've liked the most. I think she and Dick had a lot of the same issues they do in the books in which she doesn't take him seriously or trust his judgment and he's unwilling to put aside the mission to just be with her. I know the books never came to this conclusion but whenever I read them I feel like Babs really dislikes being a vigilante and her constant digs at Dick there (and comparison to Batman) feels like it's her own frustration with the lifestyle. Her being the commissioner and more involved with the politics makes sense and she and Dick are just too different. She wants to be grounded and tied to one city and Dick longs to be free.

Dick and Kory on the other hand are very similar and have similar goals. Being on the same page is a way better romance story than a love triangle. I'm so glad we weren't forced to be tortured through one.

[ratsnessst]

( #Danny was captured by the GIW#Kind of#he was actually a little hurt and withdrew to heal himself in his core#the GIW just found him#Danny was sleeping for a while#probably due to the lack of ectoplasm in the environment than anything else#Ellie obviously noticed his absence#Clockwork indicated to the halfa that Danny was on earth but he did not know where#Danny is the only being that Clockwork cannot predict#Unfortunately#so Ellie got a little aggressive during her search#The GIW knew the crystal was important but didn't understand why the ghosts wanted it#Batman obviously doesn't trust their judgment#Danny took a long nap by accident#and Ellie destroyed a couple of buildings by accident too )

Crystal Warnings

Threats to Earth are not news to the Justice League. Neither is the fact that a threat is "too powerful" for them, what is new is that the U.S. government wants to provide them with help, since when have they ever wanted that?

It is a novelty that does not sit very well with Bruce, because he feels that there is something wrong with the situation. They had faced thousands of dangers but it is only now that they are offering something? Definitely suspicious.

However Clark's curiosity was only outweighed by Barry's desperation to find a solution so he agreed to listen to what the "GIW" had to say.

Apparently their current threat was very much connected to them, which Bruce was not surprised by, what did surprise him was that the threat was less of a threat and more of a warning of sorts. As usual, people had played with things they shouldn't, causing catastrophic results.

The organization that contacted them had some sort of crystal, they flatly refused to say where it came from but explained that it was very important to beings from another dimension, and they were trying to contain the threat but found it impossible.

What Bruce got out of that conversation was that the organization had greatly disturbed a civilization full of unknown beings for the sheer joy of it. And that their current enemy was nothing more than a being desperate to retrieve whatever the crystal was.

Clark, of course, asked them for the crystal, to which they seemed very reluctant but in the end agreed. And Bruce set about contacting Diana, because he was sure they needed a diplomatic intervention rather than an actual battle.

It became clear that the crystal was extremely important when the giant eldritch menace transformed into a desperate teenage girl the moment the crystal appeared in her field of vision. That was even more evident when hundreds of portals began to form around the place, different creatures scowled at the humans.

Bruce vowed never to place his trust in organizations outside the League and its allies again. He swore doubly so when the crystal stopped being a crystal and transformed into a groggy, sleepy teenager mid-conversation.

There really was a hell of paperwork ahead. But at least the world was saved from human stupidity, again.