#BTW there are no bible verses because i was to lazy to look them up - but i can provide them if needed

[spiegelgestalt]

Does the bible endorse slavery?

Soooo. A few weeks ago I watched the new video by Dan Olson. It’s about the futile quest to prove creationism is real by proving that dinosaurs and humans lived during the same period of time. It’s a good video. There was just one part that triggered me no offended me to my core and it was this one: the fundamentalist try so desperately to prove creationism because they want to keep the bible as unquestionable authority so they can continue their bigoted beliefs. And this angered me. I wasn’t angry at Dan. I’m pretty sure he’s right. There are Christians who think that the only thing standing between them and their ability to subjugate humans and treat others badly for their own personal gain is science, secularism and a critical read of the bible.

And as a Christian i just can't let this stand

This is me cleaning house (she said if anyone would read this and if she had any authority) Get your grabby fundamentalist prosperity gospel slavery apologist hands away from my holy scripture. We don’t want you here. Go away.

Does the bible think that slavery is okay?

Short answer: No.

Nuanced answer under the cut:

The bible has a harm reduction approach to a lot of social issues. A lot of rules and laws apply to concrete problems people had at the time. Some things were so far out of the realm of possibility no one thought of them yet. But the bible is very clear how all laws and rules should be applied:

They should protect those who can’t protect themselves – especially vulnerable people without a family unit: widows, orphans, poor people, foreigners, slaves because God is always on the side of those people

You can’t serve God properly if you are mistreating your fellow humans

Treating your fellow humans well is more important than the correct prayers/cult

One of the fundamental myths in the bible is getting freed from slavery. God is someone who saves you from slavery.

But and here comes the nuance: there was slavery in the bible. And it wasn’t abolished. here we get to the harm reduction approach. In the bible if you have slaves you should always remember that you (or your ancestors) used to be slaves themselves So you should treat them accordingly – one free day a week for everyone (BTW part of the ten commandments) , enough pay to have a decent life, and after seven years they should get the possibility to leave and be free but they could stay if they wanted to. Basically the enslaved person is a human like you.  This approach should make several things impossible which are usually highly connected to slavery: treating people as things/furniture (imo one of the biggest sins in the bible btw – you can always spot a godless person by the way they treat the people and animals around them), not paying them, destroying their families, beat them to death…

But what about Gen 9, Spiegel? What about Ham and this particular verse: “Cursed be Canaan;

a servant of servants shall he be to his brothers.“

Okay so you are saying that this one line makes chattel slavery acceptable, that makes it acceptable to breed people like animals, to break up their families, to rape and abuse them, to treat them like trash to this very day. This one line makes racism and slavery okay?  

This one line which is said by a Noah who drank so much that he lied around naked and was disrespected by his sons is enough evidence to make slavery okay? This one line which was clearly meant as jab at the neighbors of israel is enough evidence.

You know how you can also read this: You can read this as the Deluge not working. Because here’s the thing: There was a Deluge because conflict, evil and wars got so out of hands that God tried to switch creation on and of again. (lets not talk about the morality of this). God tried to switch creation on and of again and the people were still evil. That’s what they realized: People won’t change. People are evil. And so I won’t punish creation again just because people suck. – and how did God realize it – because even Noah wasn’t perfect. There’s a new dawn – new humanity and once again Noah’s putting brother against brothers – unlawful hierarchies appear and the whole cycle starts again.

But what about the slavery in the new testament, Spiegel? Paul said it was okay. Paul said slaves should remain with their masters. Huh! What do you say now?

Paul also made it abundantly clear that their was no significant difference between a slave and a lord. In the eyes of god they are all equally sinners and equally saved.

Paul honestly thought that the world wouldn’t exist much longer. It was very much: this is a temporary thing – tomorrow Jesus comes back and then all of this doesn’t matter anyway. So his drive to change the world/change the rules/ create a just society wasn’t really there. His stance was mostly: you got what you got so try to live the most god fearing live wherever you are. So as a slave with a unjust master that meant suffering but still trying you best – and know that you take part in jesus’ suffering. While as a master you should treat the people under you like Jesus treated them -> serve them, suffer under them, help them – the vibe was very much: if everyone acts well and decent we don’t even have to have a revolution. Is that realistic – no – but I don’t think Paul was big into structural criticism. The important thing is: would Jesus endorse chattel slavery? HELL NO!!What the fuck are you talking about??

Pauls stance on the whole unjust hierarchies thing is actually pretty interesting because it was basically an anarchistic stance. A Christian is completely free – they only serve God – but because serving God means serving your brothers and sisters they are a slave/servant to everyone at the same time. If you are a Christian there are no gender barriers, it doesn’t matter were you come from, it doesn’t matter if you are rich or if you are poor, your education doesn’t matter – you are free and out of that freedom you decide to serve other to the best of your abilities.

So TL/DR: Dear fundamentalist Christian: It’s not only science/secularism/liberalism which stands in the way of your selfish, ignorant, hateful ways it’s also the bible because Plot TWIST a lot of liberalism/secularism/socialism grew on top of or in conversation with Christian theology  and the first person who wrote about the Big Bang theory was a catholic priest. GTFOH

[gracedman]

A  Most Perplexing Verse

Maybe you have one. A verse that makes you wonder. A verse that seems at first irrelevant and ridiculous. One that you as a proclaimer of the truth and relevance of the word of God makes you, shrug and blush. What does this verse have to do with Christ and a dynamic walk with God? Why would God put men under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit to write such words? And I’m not talking about for one season or a short period of time, I am talking about several decades. When you read it, you wince. Oh, there it is again, that inscrutable verse. God, what did Paul preach about when he came upon this verse? After all, did not he say this to his hearers?

 Acts 20:27 (ESV)

for I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole counsel of God.

 So what did he say about my enigmatic, perplexing Bible verse? He did not shrink from any verse. But I am embarrassed by this one. I haven’t a clue on what to really say about it. And then one day, the lights go on. The Holy Spirit says: “It’s time to stop the angels from laughing at you and your anxieties about this verse. It time to open up your understanding,” Now maybe you are saying: “Well, what is this verse. And why would you have such a problem with it?” And now I am a bit embarrassed to share it, because it may not impact you the same way it did me for so long. But it did and here it is:

 Proverbs 11:22 (ESV)

Like a gold ring in a pig’s snout is a beautiful woman without discretion.

 Proverbs 11:22 (AV)

As a jewel of gold in a swine’s snout, so is a fair woman which is without discretion.

 Now I can see someone studying out this verse in their private devotions. But preaching on this verse in public could hardly be done without people rolling in the aisles and I would have to admit it: I could not blame them. Picture a large pig with a gold ring in its nose or a large bobble jewel in its snout. And I think you may understand what I mean. The two don’t mix. Go to a pig farm and you won’t find one such an animal. There will not be a prig pig among them. Pigs are lazy and sleepy. They do a lot of laying around. And if they don’t, it is because they are hungry and scouting out their next meal. Pigs are notorious for being at the bottom of the food chain on the farm. Have a rotten batch of corn or an excess of leftovers, don’t throw it away. Give it to the pigs. They are indiscriminate eaters. Anything and everything edible, full of worms, half rotten, disgusting and smelly, so what!! The pigs will eat it. Pigs are like an organic recycling machines. They turn garbage into bacon, ham hocks and sausage. Some people even think their feet are a delicacy. (Not me, BTW!).

 I once knew a pastor who was a lobbyist for the pork industry. So, I understand that there are pork lovers out there. I also smiled to myself when he mentioned it. He must have an uphill battle. Pork is even called the “other white” meat as opposed to chicken. But back to the verse. A prig who is pig. I wonder how long it takes some of us to realize that that girl or guy in our lives, is merely capitalizing on their good looks and their charm. I mean, they are a fashion plate who glories in their external appearance. At first, this can seem very enchanting and all consuming. She’s so beautiful. He’s so handsome. The gold ring is all you can see. The jewel is the primary focus of who this person is. But gradually the whole picture becomes clear. They are a pig. The importance of their looks is reduced to a mere piece of jewelry in their snout. Somehow it is out of Character. It doesn’t match with the rest of the package. They live without true discretion. Which means this person, I say this because, in spite of what the verse says, this is not gender specific. A male can be a pig, just as much as a female. A male can live without becoming a “Gentleman”. A female can live without becoming a “Lady”. It takes the mind of God in the heart of a person for such a difference to be made. Male or female, this problem is common to us all. I could say a lot more on this topic but I think this is sufficient for this portion.

 The only other thing, I wanted to make mention is this: The place the gold ring is found. It is in the pig’s nose. A pig’s nose is used to find their meals. It is constantly being placed earthward. It is a picture of a person who is preoccupied with earthly things and lives in wisdom from below rather than from above. A Godly person has their golden ring in their ear. They have an ear to hear things from above. They have had their ear pierced by the master as a symbol of their desire to remain in his house and servant forever. They have found him to be so wonderful and sufficient that nothing else will do. Old testament slaves could go free after a period of service, but if they wished to remain, they had their ears pierced and a gold ring was placed in their ear. They chose to hear their master. New Testament believers followed this in spirit:

 Romans 12:1–2 (ESV)

I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

 Be careful. Get a prince. Get a princess. Not just a pig with a gold ring in their snout.

 Lord Jesus, Thank you for wisdom from above. Help us. Give us Godly wisdom. Amen!!!