#Arya meta

[asongofstarkandtargaryen]

I've seen some people hold Arya responsible over what happened to her friend Mycah at the Trident incident because according to them "she should have known her place in society and the power a lady holds over commoners". I disagree with this notion on so many levels.

First of all, Arya is only nine years old during that incident . Even if you believe that she shouldn't befriend commoners (which in my opinion she's totally allowed to, and I'll express my thoughts on it later on) shouldn't you be less harsh on the judgement of such a little kid? Even if according to you "she doesn't know her place in society", she still have plenty of years before she reaches adulthood to find the so called place she is supposed to occupy as a lady in Westerosi society.

As I said earlier on, I do believe that Arya is totally justified in befriending people who belong in a different social class from her. That's isn't only my own personal belief as someone who is anti - classism and lives in 21st century, but this is also supported by the text.

From her first introduction we know that Arya likes to befriend all sort of people.

Arya had loved nothing better than to sit at her father's table and listen to them talk. She had loved listening to the men on the benches too; to freeriders tough as leather, courtly knights and bold young squires, grizzled old men-at-arms. She used to throw snowballs at them and help them steal pies from the kitchen. Their wives gave her scones and she invented names for their babies and played monsters-and-maidens and hide-the-treasure and come-into-my-castle with their children. Fat Tom used to call her "Arya Underfoot," because he said that was where she always was. She'd liked that a lot better than "Arya Horseface."

The above passage is from the second chapter of hers, before she left Winterfell. She loves Winterfell's small folk and is loved by them in return. She is even given the nickname " Arya Underfoot" because of that behavior of hers. So, it's no secret that she associates with commoners. It's impossible for her mother and her father not to know. And yet she's never scolded for that, and Arya is scolded over plenty things by her mother and the Septa but never about the people she chooses as her companions.

It makes sense that she's allowed to associate with these people, since Bran in his own POV also expresses fondness for people who belong to a lower class (and he's also never forbidden to associate with these people) and Ned, the Winterfell's own Lord, is known to dine with people who belong to a lower class. So, it's totally okay for Arya - and for any other child of his- to follow his example.

Also, post the Trident incident, Ned has a long and serious talk with Arya. If he believed that his daughter shouldn't befriend a boy from a below class, he would express this opinion of his to Arya. But he didn't, because he didn't find anything wrong with it

The only people who find wrong Arya associating with small folk are Sansa and the Lannisters/Baratheon. The first is the only person who actually shares her distaste for Arya's company in her own POV:

Sansa knew all about the sorts of people Arya liked to talk to: squires and grooms and serving girls, old men and naked children, rough-spoken freeriders of uncertain birth. Arya would make friends with anybody. This Mycah was the worst; a butcher's boy, thirteen and wild, he slept in the meat wagon and smelled of the slaughtering block. Just the sight of him was enough to make Sansa feel sick, but Arya seemed to prefer his company to hers.

But we shouldn't take Sansa's view as the norm for westerosi society and especially not for Winterfell's household since her own father is okay with associating with people that belong to a lower class than theirs.

I believe that since Sansa is introduced to us as a proper little lady, some people take her views as the absolute truth when it comes to westerosi etiquette But they forget that Sansa is also a little kid who doesn't fully understand or see eye to eye with her little sister and therefore it makes sense that she views Arya's actions in a more negative light than other characters do.

As for the Lannister-Baratheon loyal family, Cersei and Joffrey have a strong distain for small folk and believe in their own superiority - but they also believe in their superiority over their fellow noble people. I guess we could say that both suffer from superiority complex and have a distorted idea of the world, so I wouldn't hold their own views as the norm, either.

I'm not saying that there aren't other nobles who believe in their own superiority over commoners and would never befriend people from a lower class, because the books contain plenty of these type of characters. I'm just saying that this isn't the absolute truth to every single noble character, aside from Arya. The kids in Winterfell are allowed to befriend people from lower classes and so are the Martell kids in the Water Gardens.

And not every monarch values so little the life of their people that they would order a little boy to be killed just because their child and crown prince, threw a fit. Ask yourself the question: if Ned Stark was the King and Robb had terrorised a little boy who played with Arya/any other little noble kid, would Ned order Mycah's death? Or would he have a long talk with his heir on how he shouldn't treat his people as objects? Just because Cersei and Joffrey don't give a fuck for small folk ( and Robert could not be bothered to interfere) it doesn't mean that every monarch would react the same way they did.

Mycah died because of Cersei and Joffrey cruelty and Robert's indifference. Not because Arya befriended him.

[laurellerual]

Do you think adult Arya would grow her hair out or keep it short?? I can see her doing both TBH

My art speaks for me. I think she would grow her hair out.

Arya is forced to have her hair cut numerous times during the course of the story. The first to do it is Yoren, and it's a traumatic experience where she thinks he's going to kill her. Then it happens again in Harrenhal where she is shorn like an animal because of fleas. Then it's the Hound's turn after the red weddings and then the House of black and white. Every time the hair is cut it is because of someone else and corresponds to an external change, a violation, a loss of identity.

The only time we see her shave herself is at the beginning of the Mercy chapter, after she accepted her new role as "no one" (at least in words because if you've read the chapter you know how it ends). So once again a loss of identity, self-imposed this time.

For me, an Arya who can finally afford to let her hair grow is an Arya who is once again free to bear her name and not have to give up any part of herself, and this is what I hope for her future.

[tell-them-the-north-remembers]

If there is one line I like to over-analyze in the ASoIAF books it is a rather famous thought that goes inside Cat's head before her death. As the steel is close to her throat Cat thinks "No, don’t, don’t cut my hair, Ned loves my hair." And this line and her entire inner monologue is absolutely heart-breaking but one thing I fixate on is the actual sentence itself.

"Ned loves my hair."

Anyone who has read the books knows that Cat holds contempt for the fact that except for Arya, she has failed to give Ned children who look like him. It is also one of the reasons she dislikes Jon so much, because the mother of Jon (who she assumes to be Ned's bastard son) has managed to give Ned a child that looks just like him while she, his lawfully wedded wife gave birth to five of his children only for four of them to come out looking exactly like her. Red hair, blue eyes. Unlike Jon (and Arya) who share Ned's dark hair and dark eyes.

And knowing that it is so interesting to me that Cat's last thought about Ned (and her last thought ever) was that Ned loves her hair.

Because Ned loved her, he loved her hair, he loved her the way she was. And every time he looked at Robb, Sansa, Bran and Rickon he saw the reflection of the woman he loved, while Cat was so upset that they weren't all reflections of the man she loved.

Every time Ned ran his fingers through their hair, he ran his fingers through the hair of the woman he loved. He never resented Cat for the fact that four of his children didn't look like him, he loved that they looked like their mother, again, the woman he loved so much. He loved that they had the same hair he loved on Cat, and judging by it being her last thought Cat also knew that Ned loved her hair (and the way she looked), whether she ever came to the realization that Ned was perfectly happy with the way their children looked at all, or if she realized after he was dead and it was too late, it is unclear. But all those years she beat herself up over nothing.

Ned loved her the way she was, Ned loved his children the way they were, when they looked like him and when they didn't. Because when they didn't look like him, they looked like the love of his life, his darling wife.

And if the books decide to go with R+L=J it also adds another layer to Cat and Ned's relationship. Because Jon's mother was always a woman she didn't know but was still competing with in her mind for Ned's love for all these years. Turns out she didn't even exist. Turns out she didn't need to feel inferior to the woman Ned loved enough to not even talk about with her, no need to feel bad about the fact that she was able to give Ned a child that looked like him while Cat "failed".

At the end of the day, all the voices in her head making her feel insecure in her marriage never needed to be there, because everything she thought of as a problem with her were not problems at all for Ned. He was perfectly happy with her and their children.

[winterprince601]

catelyn seeing arya in the warrior and then proving where arya gets that from in the same chapter.

[insomniarama]

#this is one of the biggest points for me #bc yeah grrm couldve very easily had her become increasingly anti social and withdrawn #and affc/adwd wouldve been the time to do it #but he doesnt lol #despite everything #she is still consistently able to form friendships #her sociability actually recovers in braavos bc its not a warzone #thats what she values cat of the canals so much #and ''mourned'' the loss of her #it makes zero sense that she will return to WF #and be unable to connect with people #she was able to be an active member in a community on another continent where she barely spoke the language ffs #her arc is defined by strong social ties #it gets treated as a general house stark quote but #the pack survives is HER mantra for a reason (tags vis @gendrie​)

I think one of the reasons why the theory that Arya will go away at the end of the story because she’s too far gone to assimilate back into society is so unconvincing is because she literally spends the latest two books (AFFC and ADWD) doing that very thing! Like her training hasn’t been about her being a reclusive murderous hermit. She literally spends the two books talking to people, making friends, integrating into new cultures. She’s around people all the damn time! And even if we bring up her ACOK and ASOS arcs which were rather dark in nature, she’s still around people interacting with them, still being a part of society (even if she’s quite low on the totem pole in those books).

Arya is a character who feels so strongly and whose arc is often dictated by how she interacts with the people around her. So to take that away from her is not only a bad understanding of her character arc (not to be condescending or anything), but it’s also not very satisfying as far as character/narrative progression goes. Because if the narrative has proven so far that even in her darkest moments, Arya can laugh and love and be such a passionate member of society, how then does it make sense for her to go away and be on her own?? How does that make sense when AFFC and ADWD prove that she still loves being around people?

[ladystoneboobs]

the younger starklings about robb (robb the strong and brave big brother, the perfect heir, the fierce and unbeatable young wolf):

arya

bran

sansa

meanwhile, actual robb (robb the lord and then robb the kitn):

before arya ever promised to be strong by using robb as her benchmark, the definition of stark strength, ned had to remind robb to be strong as the ruling stark in winterfell. (strong for bran and rickon, the brothers he thought he failed by sending their would-be killer away, leading to his great moment of weakness in jeyne westerling's bed.) as his siblings' faith in his ultimate triumph held strong, even after the loss of the north, robb himself was struggling with despair.

as grenn once told sam, maybe everyone is just pretending to be brave, maybe that's how people become brave. robb was faking it to make it too, imitating his father's lordly attitude as bran later tried to imitate robb's. as his younger siblings remembered him as their shining example, robb was trying to live up to his father's example. not the ned who'd been in his circumstances, a teenager unexpectedly turned into a lord and fighting a war to save his family. no, ofc, he never knew that young ned. the ned he knew as his father, the standard to measure himself against, was an adult man in his mid-30s who'd ruled the north for ~15 years. but was that standard for a 15/16yo any more fair and valid an expectation than 8/9yo bran believing he was almost a man grown and holding himself to the standard of 15/16yo robb as robb's heir?

and the only person left close enough to see robb as the boy he still was died with him.

[babybells123]

(ASOS, Sansa II)

(ASOS, Jon XII)

[sare11aa11eras]

So like. The Riverlands, or at least Harrenhal, have like a gravitational pull. Which is why Catelyn, Jaime, Brienne, and Arya can’t ever escape there. Even in death, Catelyn can’t leave. Her memory and her body are bound together and to her homeland once more. And Jaime and Brienne spend all their time in ASOS in the Riverlands, and you think they’ll escape back to civilization and King’s Landing, and they do, but a) they are changed irrevocably from the people who started out so like did they really leave? and b) King’s Landing turns out to be a brief respite only. They must return once more, and they may even die there. And then Arya spends like two whole books there, wandering and traveling and never getting to where she needs to go. And even when she leaves, even with the whole Narrow Sea between her and those forests and streams, her consciousness and her soul still reside there, and she returns there every night, renewing her connection. Okay? They are stuck. They’re trapped. It’s just endless forest and rivers and the occasional band of outlaws or travelers or abandoned castles. Which, none of them can leave, either. Gendry and the Brotherhood are still there, even when their original purpose is lost and their leader dies. Jeyne, the orphans at the inn, Ravella Smallwood, the Freys, the Brackens and Blackwoods, the Bloody Mummers, the bear from the Harrenhal Bear Pit— they are all trapped. Okay?

[inwinterhell]

In Defense of Syrio Forel

(aka how Syrio respects Arya's agency in a way the faceless men don't)

Disclaimer: I know Syrio=Jaqen believers are few and far between, especially on here, but writing this gives me an excuse to talk about Syrio and Ayra so here have this anyway.

Syrio Forel has a distinct teaching/coaching style based on name-play and "true sight," both of which are skills Arya later builds upon in the House of Black and White. However, while the skills she learns are similar, the way Syrio interacts with Arya seeks to empower her while the faceless men seek to tear her down. Some of the main contrasts I see are:

Arya's gender identity

The faceless men make Arya's gender identity into a barrier as soon as they start genuinely training her:

 "It may be that the Many-Faced God has led you here to be His instrument, but when I look at you I see a child . . . and worse, a girl child. Many have served Him of Many Faces through the centuries, but only a few of His servants have been women. Women bring life into the world. We bring the gift of death. No one can do both (AFFC Arya II).

I question the validity of this concern, especially considering the Waif is right there, but regardless, they're giving her an extra hurdle to overcome. Her gender identity is one of many reasons they use to make her insecure about her place there and show how she isn't good enough.

Despite this, the Kindly Man never actually calls her a girl when she's pretending to be "no one." He calls her a girl when she is under an alias (Cat/Beth/The Ugly Little Girl), but otherwise, he uses the genderless "child:" *not 100% on this but a search of ice and fire backs me up lol*

"Do they frighten you, child?" asked the kindly man" (ADWD The Ugly Little Girl).

"Go to bed now, child," the kindly man said" (AFFC Cat of the Canals).

"Child," he said, "come sit with me. I have a tale to tell you" (AFFC Arya II).

He also specifically says her gender will not be hers if she joins them:

"He will take your hands, your feet, your arms and legs, your private parts (AFFC Arya II).

In contrast, Syrio's "Boy, girl...You are a sword" is nonchalant. I think it does serve several purposes, namely to tell her she won't get any special treatment and to make her pay attention to how others see her, but importantly, it also lets her know that she has nothing extra to prove. He was hired to train her as a sword, and he's going to train her like he would anyone else.

After this initial lesson, he also never calls her "boy" again. He sometimes uses "child" but for the most part calls her "girl:"

"So slow? Be quicker, girl. Your enemies will give you more than scratches (AGOT Arya III) 

"Just so. And now you are a dead girl" (AGOT Arya IV).

"Watching is not seeing, dead girl" (AGOT Arya IV).

Arya says she is a girl. Syrio respects that and calls her a girl.

2. Needle

When the Waif sees Arya training with Needle, that is the signal for Arya to get rid of her belongings:

One night the waif happened to be passing and saw Arya at her swordplay. The girl did not say a word, but the next day, the kindly man walked Arya back to her cell. "You need to rid yourself of all this," he said of her treasures.

Arya felt stricken. "They're mine" (AFFC Arya II)

The faceless men know what is important to Arya and want to strip her of it so she rids herself of her identity.

Syrio lets Arya use the name of her sword to help understand her training:

 You are not holding a battle-axe, you are holding a—"

"—needle," Arya finished for him, fiercely.

"Just so" (AGOT Arya II).

"Syrio Forel allowed himself a smile. "I am thinking that when we are reaching this Winterfell of yours, it will be time to put this needle in your hand" (AGOT Arya IV).

3. Her name!

The one and only time that Syrio ever name-drops "Arya" is when he is convincing her to run for her life:

"Arya child," he called out, never looking, never taking his eyes off the Lannisters, "we are done with dancing for the day. Best you are going now. Run to your father" (AGOT Arya IV).

Nine-year old Arya is standing there, with a stick sword in her hand, ready to fight a bunch of grown men with Syrio. He knows that she loves him--that she is loyal to him--and if he wanted to use that he could have run with her right then and there. But he doesn't. Instead he reminds her of her name and her father. His final words to her are telling her to remember who she is.

When Arya thinks of Syrio in the books following AGOT, she thinks of him as her friend, and she is right. Syrio cared about Arya, not about "no one." He's one of her memories in the House of Black and White, preventing her from letting go of Arya Stark, and that's where he belongs.

[asongofstarkandtargaryen]

There is something truly sad in the miscommunication between Catelyn and Arya. The latter doubts that her mother will want her back, while the former failed to communicate to her daughter that her love for her is unconditional.

Make no mistake, Catelyn's love for Arya - as well as for the rest of her children- is without restrictions. But she failed to convey that to her younger daughter, since she often reprimanded her and negatively compared her to her older daughter, Sansa.

When Arya is captured by the Brotherhood without Banners, she even doubts that her mother would want to ransom her

"What if my brother doesn't want to ransom me?"

"Why would you think that?" asked Lord Beric.

"Well," Arya said, "my hair's messy and my nails are dirty and my feet are all hard." Robb wouldn't care about that, probably, but her mother would. Lady Catelyn always wanted her to be like Sansa, to sing and dance and sew and mind her courtesies.

I can only imagine how much rejected by her mother Arya feels in order to think like that.

What makes it even sadder is that Catelyn was also once a kid who enjoyed outdoor activities that could be considered "unladylike" by westerosi narrow minded society.

Here is a description of Catelyn's childhood:

She remembered the godwood, dropping branches heavy with moisture, and the sound of her brother's laughter as he chased her through the piles of damp leaves. She remembered making mud pies with Lysa, the weight of them, the mud slick and brown between her fingers.

What happened to that kid who enjoyed messy play? Because grown up Catelyn is proper Lady to the bone. Did she eventually outgrown her childish games and decided to be more ladylike? Did some adult made her to stop these games because they found them inproper? We can only speculate.

It is sad though that while Catelyn reminisces with fondness her childhood memories, she doesn't approve of her daughter making similar kind of memories.

[daenerysstormreborn]

Something that I think gets overlooked about Arya as a result of fandom flanderization is that she didn’t set out with the desire to become an assassin. She loves swordplay, yes, and she has her list. But when she escaped king’s landing, she just wanted to get to family. She wanted to get to safety. She wanted to get to Jon. When she left for Essos, her intention had been to go to the wall, to find Jon. She only went to Braavos because she didn’t know what else to do. Arya has a strong sense of justice, yes. But her primary motivation hasn’t been revenge. She’s not the only character who, imo, is on a specific path because they don’t know what else to do. But that’ll have to wait for another post

[fromtheseventhhell]

"I've never seen such anger in a girl" and it's literally just a nine-year-old being quiet after an upsetting event, Arya really experiencing the universal girlhood experience of having your emotions policed for not responding in the "right" way

[thaliajoy-blog]

Honestly becoming a bit obsessed with the secondary animal association of some ASOIAF girls this Brienne symbolism has made me spiral...

Like level one you've got Sansa who's associated to several bird species - she's a little bird (evoking a sparrow or a dove), she's compared to an exotic talking bird (so a parrot or a parakeet), her false father Littlefinger has a mockingbird as a symbol, & she takes refuge in the Vale, home of the Arryn falcon. Bran wishes he was associated to so many birds...

Then you've got Brienne, who is associated to the bear and to the lion indirectly with Jaime. From there there's the whole maiden & the wild beasts dynamic to consider, this magical connection virgin women have to nature & wild animals (like the unicorn for one), how they "tame" them with their innocence and purity. Brienne "tames" Jaime physically, same with the bear, but she also most importantly does with her purity of heart & dedication to knightly values (and once "tamed" he fights to protect her). You could say Brienne has to deal with a lot of human beasts - like Vargo Hoat, "the Goat", or Rorge & Biter, who are each acting or described as animalistic men, & she fights or kill most of them.

And then you've got Arya - I found it interesting that outside of her wolf self she's associated with either much smaller & tamer animals. She's a grey mouse in Harrenhal, or a weasel & a squirrel... she's also a horse as Arya Horseface (plus association to her aunt Lyanna, the "centaur"), and a cat as Cat of the Cannals.

[prahelika]

3 am arya thoughts:

“You’ll need to carry me.” See? thought Mercy. You know your line, and so do I. “Think so?” asked Arya, sweetly. Raff the Sweetling looked up sharply as the long thin blade came sliding from her sleeve.

She took a step, and another, and with each she felt less a mouse. She worked her way down the bench, filling wine cups. Rorge sat to Jaqen’s right, deep drunk, but he took no note of her. Arya leaned close and whispered, “Chiswyck,” right in Jaqen’s ear.

“Why don’t you just kill me like you did Mycah?” Arya had screamed at him. She was still defiant then, more angry than scared.

She never forgets anyone. Never. Whether it's Mycah, the butcher's son she used to play with as a nine-year old, or Lommy who bullies her and attacks her viciously before they become friends. Lommy stays with her even as she tries to shed the name of Arya Stark, so much so that she remembers Raff and kills him using poetic justice. Even Layna, the innkeeper's daughter who was raped by Gregor Clegane, who she never even knew. Arya gives Chiswyck's name to Jaqen instead of say, Weese or Raff, who were incredibly cruel to her. All because he told Layna's story as if it were a joke.

There's only one other character who I can think of who remembers and cares about people so much.

No queen has clean hands, Dany told herself. She thought of Doreah, of Quaro, of Eroeh … of a little girl she had never met, whose name had been Hazzea. Better a few should die in the pit than thousands at the gates. This is the price of peace, I pay it willingly. If I look back, I am lost.

The thing that surprised Dany most was how unsurprised she was. She found herself remembering Eroeh, the Lhazarene girl she had once tried to protect, and what had happened to her. It will be the same in Meereen once I march, she thought.

They're really so similar... children forced to go through so much, who still retain their compassion, kindness and sense of justice, no matter what happens to them. I hope they meet up in the books, and finally, finally, get to have their happy ending with each other.

[winterprince601]

"he was never unfaithful to robert, was he?" - jaime, acok

ha. ha ha ha. the irony of this line is incredible. what's so striking to me is how one dimensional the realm's understanding of eddard stark as an honourable man is - honour itself is an incredibly complicated and unattainable ideal in asoiaf and i think ned as the stereotypical emblem of it encompasses many of the reasons why. because whilst he absolutely does consider acting in a conventionally honourable way important, he always prioritises those he loves. he defended cat's actions as his own without a second thought when she arrested tyrion. his main priority in king's landing is to see his daughters safe, not to secure the succession. lyanna is the prime example: jon's existence is not the result of the lapse of honourable ned stark, it was honourable ned stark choosing his love for his sister over his duty to his king. that and his personal ethical belief that the political murder of a child is never morally acceptable.

no one in the realm has the insight into his personality we get in the first book. none of his children, vitally, understand that he would always prioritise their safety over any honourable scruples. all of the starklings question what their honourable father would think of their actions - killing in self-defence, marrying jeyne westerling, sleeping with ygritte to name a few examples - without recognising that ned's true first priority was always his family's safety.

in fact, he betrayed robert far more than he ever betrayed cat and he would have betrayed honour for his family's safety every time.

[ariamariastark1]

You don't know the characters better than GRRM

I know this is kinda pointless and stupid, but I need to say something, because I saw this comment I can't explain how much this person's audacity got me angry. NO ONE understands the story better than the Writer, and you don't know Sansa, Arya, and Bran better than GRRM. To say that GRRM blew up the story because you expect the characters to do something and be something that is not based on the books is ridiculous.

If Sansa has only three chapters in Feast and it shows almost no progress, maybe Sansa's not supposed to be learning that much of the 'Game', like the comment implies.

Bran is not supposed to have god-like powers, this is a massive claim that highly contradicts one of Bran's main themes: Humanity and Resisting Systematic Dehumanisation

Arya is most certainly NOT supposed to be a "deadly assassin but also a great fighter, foreshadowing for her show ending with her conquering the seas" at all, Arya has almost no real physical training, she has around 4-6 months of water-dancing classes, little practices and only wins/survives in the fights in the books because she is tinnier and quicker. The fact that GRRM could have written her training like OP said, "having lots of fighting training with Braavos dancing masters and having her also reading about Nymeria conquest and about sea sealing" but he didn't, means that that is not her story.

This type of 'fan' pisses me off, the type that ignores almost everything about the characters, that completely dismisses the canon because the Show has a different direction. GoT holds no meaning when it comes to the books.