#Armand turing Daniel over any reason other than because he loves him?

[cbrownjc]

*cracks knuckles*

Well, as a Devil's Minion fan from way back, I'll flat-out say why, if this is really how Daniel was turned, why I'll hate it:

Because even more in the show than in the books, it's been established that companions are made out of love. Not out of panic and definitely not out of spite and anger.

Because love, in the end, is what trumps what Armand thinks about Maker-Fedgling relationships and how they end up becoming. Armand risked his deeply held beliefs about Maker and Fledgling relationships never working out because of love. His love for one human boy, who really wasn't any more or less special than any other human in the world except that Armand found him special. He fascinated Armand and contrary to every interaction with mortals in his life from the moment he was turned, he connected and fell in love with this one. To Daniel.

To the point that the very idea of living without Daniel filled him with more fear than even the possibility of Daniel hating him.

"I told you. It's just a dream. But if you want a name, let me call it the gateway of life and death. I'll bring you with me through this gateway. And why? Because I am a coward. And I love you too much to let you go."

This paragraph right here. This is why Armand turns Daniel and is not only a beating heart of their relationship but of Armand's character growth on this whole subject of having never turned some one before.

This isn't just about Daniel knowing Armand is a monster. It's about him loving that monster before he becomes one himself. Because loving a monster when you are still a human yourself? Especially given what human older Daniel on the show has been saying all this entire time about vampires and how he distains what they are? Refusing to be turned when Louis offered?

Okay, Daniel saw Armand as a monster. And? Because that is not all there is to it, or Armand would have turned Daniel in Pompeii in the books after stalking him for 4 years where he showed that side of himself to Daniel very well.

And look, it would have been an even harder task for older human Daniel to reconcile that love -- loving Armand of all monsters -- whether he knew about anything that happened in the past between them (if it happened) or not, given the full life Daniel has now led. But it still could have been done IMO.

Daniel falling in love with Armand after he's already been turned by Armand into a monster himself and seems to have taken to it like a duck to water? Who cares? In this scenario, he only hates Armand for some personal grievances not because, you know Armand is denying him immortality and Daniel thinks that means Armand doesn't really love or care about him, which is how it was in the book. And with an older Daniel, who was actively dying, there would have been even more to explore wrt all of this.

In the books, Louis and Lestat only knew each other for 3 night before Louis was turned, and with that even -- on night one -- things started out with Lestat attacking Louis out of nowhere.

The show, however, went to the full trouble of having Lestat turn Louis after months of courting between them, in a church in a clear analogy to a wedding. And them both clearly in love with each other.

And somehow, with Armand and Daniel who actually have a darkly romantic turning in the book in a vision of Pompeii where they both first declared they loved each other -- that they might not only not get that but get less than Louis and Lestat got? To the point that they may not even be in love yet?

Yeah, no. I will flat-out call it a bad adaptation of Devil's Minion if the show really has done that here. Because it guts the actual complexity to the love part of their love story. And the character growth from Armand that came from it. Because Daniel was human and because Armand had to make a choice to either lose Daniel in death or risk almost 500 years of belief and trust that turning Daniel wasn't going to mean he'd lose Daniel.

Doing it this way, without the love? Armand really risks nothing. Yeah, he bound himself to a whip-smart person who hates him. Yay. Whatever. Given that Daniel can't seem to find him, Armand looks to not have stuck around long enough to try and even care a little bit about his one and only fledgling that he didn't mind breaking 500 years of not turning anyone to turn.

But I just wrote a meta about the show purposefully framing Armand in a villain/antagonist way, so it does fit with that IMO. 🤷🏾‍♀️

So no, I'm sorry but it damn well does matter to me if Daniel and especially Armand were in love with each other before Daniel was turned. Vampire companionship being made of out love -- a Maker making their companion out of love and those being the enduring companionship -- is a thing I'm noticing very much in the Prince Lestat books. I don't see any sort of move like this enhancing their story at all. IMO it just adds less complexity if that's how it really went down.

So yeah, Daniel having been made by Armand out of anything other than love -- at the very least on Armand's part? Yes, I will hate that if that turns out to be the case of this. Because not only does it gut the complexity of their entire pre-turning relationship, but it guts the conflict and complexity of this post-turning one as well IMO.

I'm willing to listen to anyone with a good argument to the contrary but for now? Out of everything, Armand turning Daniel out of anything but love? That's not Devil's Minion or ever why Armand would ever break his never-turing-someone rule. No matter what else he has or hasn't pulled in the past.

And just personally? I think there is something purposefully off about all of this. If not just because this show is so planned wrt things that they can deliberately call back to things from the first three episodes from last season to deliver a coup de gras about the trial, plus would go to all the trouble of making it very clear that Lestat and Louis were very much in love with each other when Louis was turned . . . I can't see how they would drop the ball of Armand and Daniel's love story. Not like this.

@iamanoccasionaldoodler

Okay so,

There seems to be this negative reaction to the finale from a lot of Devil's Minion fans and I don't understand it for a lot of reasons, but one of them is ... I don't get why people are upset that, when read at it's worst, Armand and Daniel are seemingly not on good terms after Daniel is turned. I keep seeing this belief that Armand "abandoned" him, which I think is fully pulled from y'alls collective ass, and a disappointment that Daniel would call Armand a "fucking asshole."

But the thing about Armand/Daniel everyone seems to be forgetting is that even in the source material, they first had to tear each other down to their bare bones before they could see each other well enough to love one another -- REALLY love one another. Because Armand is a russian nesting doll of lies, masks, and emotional walls, and with Daniel, idek if I can explain it properly, but I think its some combination of Armand needing to break him a bit to get him on his level of broken freakitude, and also Armand not being able to relate to the 20th Century Human period and needing to drill down into Daniel's core, straight down into the monkey brain that every homo sapien has shared for eons, before he can find something he understands.

If we were to ever get a proper Devil's Minion storyline on this show (and we will), they've laid the perfect groundwork by having Daniel EVISCERATE Armand right to his face, slicing his Gorgon's knot of lies and schemes in half and leaving it lay on that table. And Armand's face! HIS FACE! He can't believe it! Seventy-seven years with Louis who never could unravel all the strings, or simply didn't care to even bother. And THIS guy who seemingly hates him found Armand fascinating enough to try. AND succeed!

And why wouldn't he? Daniel may not have remembered until they were nearing the end of the interview, but Armand SHOWED Daniel what was beneath the mask years ago, the very first time they met. The jealous, insecure, desperate creature that was hiding under there, that IS Armand to Daniel.

I'm getting off track here, but what I'm trying to say is that as much as Armand turning Daniel in the books is SUCH a flawless scene, ultimately, if you believe in the infinite and eternal nature of their love story, it doesn't matter whether Armand turned Daniel before they fell for each other, afterward, during a break-up or at the climax of their most romantic streak. Like Lestat said, "We'll be together ten thousand nights, a hundred thousand. What we're doing is hard."

So maybe Armand turned Daniel shortly after Daniel stripped him bare in front of Louis, and Louis was so disgusted by what he saw, he threw him into a stone wall. Daniel could have run, too. For some reason, he didnt. Armand could have killed him in an instant, sitting at that table or after Louis left. He didn't. Armand made a conscious decision to tie himself to this man who just exposed him for ETERNITY. Because as horrific an experience as it was, as devastating and life-altering, he was seen.

"It is difficult to explain how his words disarmed me, how efficiently succinct and impenetrable his argument was. All my conceptions, even my guilt and my wish to die, seemed utterly unimportant, and I completely forgot myself and the barbaric scene that surrounded me. For the first time in my life, I was seen."

Louis said those words to Lestat as he described being made a vampire, when he kissed Lestat on the altar.

That feeling, of someone cutting to the core of you and telling you exactly what you are as no one else has ever been able to understand, made Louis accept the Dark Gift from Lestat.

And it made Armand give that Gift to Daniel.