#Anyways!! Ren is just a normal guy and in this essay I will— | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

corviiids · 20 days ago

Note

If i ask nicely, would you consider writing the core of Light and L character like you did for Shuake? (IT'S BRILLIANT BTW!! You're so galazy brain. I love reading any meta or just silly posts you posted here <3) because you mention Light a couple time in Akechi's part and now i need to know your thought on him and L.

(Also, about the death note wip you're cooking right now, is it a oneshot or multiple chapters fic? Im super excited for it!)

i ABSOLUTELY would thank you so much for asking and for your lovely kind words. and im sorry this took me seven years to get to i just kept psyching myself out.

here's the ren & goro post this ask refers to for anyone wondering. the 'core' refers to my answer to a writing meme:

26. What would you describe as OOC? [...] it's the same approach i take to language tbh particularly in pronunciation. once you understand how a language forms its sounds at a base level, you dont struggle with the accent on particular words, and you can encounter words you've never seen before and understand how they're likely to be said/spelled/etc. so once i learn to 'speak' a character they come more naturally. idk if that comparison makes sense to anyone else but it does to meeeee all this to say i think a character is ooc if they do or say something i cant reconcile with that core!

the death note wip is a multichap!! thank you for your interest!!! ill talk about it more once i've stopped tying myself in knots plotting it!! broadly it's a what-if type au which has led me to replot an entire series from scratch dont look at me

anyway lawlight below. i will say ive been really desperately wanting to do like a video essay or something about death note which would be a lot about L and light specifically and how i interpret their characters so ill try and not go toooooo insane in this post but maybe ill go more insane later. in a video. with my human voice.

(edit: i failed i went insane)

light - one-way road to the sky

ok let's talk about one of my favourite scenes of the entire series, which i think is widely not super well understood but honestly to me holds the key to light's entire character. it's right there in volume 1

sorry, the only digital copy ive got on hand is the scanlation. for comparison the official print copy reads:

bubble 1: hey, maki, wanna party tomorrow with some guys from s. college? ten o'clock. bubble 2: yeah, totally! bubble 3: hey, can i go too? bubble 4: my mom isn't here yet? what's that nag doing, geez! light (thinking): damn... light (thinking): start looking around you... light (thinking): and all you see are people the world would be better off without.

this happens within the first 40 pages of the first volume. and it's like. haha hey light what the fuck? this is a totally normal scene in everyday life. people are talking about living their lives. nobody's done anything remotely reprehensible in this scene. and light's just walking through the streets experiencing apparently unprompted and quite extreme misanthropy. what's wrong with him

ok let's have a quick look at the first time we meet light in the anime.

[...]

cool cool cool im gonna pivot again let's look at the first song (besides the overture) in the musical.

ok rook! we get it! light yagami is out here like damn we live in a society time to kill people about it. this is news to nobody! we all know this!! that's what the series is about! why are we rehashing all of this

great. cool. awesome. let's look at all those scenes one more time. but this time don't look at light. instead let's look at the people around him

in the opening shots of the anime (after the shinigami world, which actually is much the same theme): news of brutal murder is narrated over establishing shots of tokyo. light is shown dead-eyed, going about his ordinary life, surrounded by random other civilians doing the same thing.

in the musical, light isn't angry that murders happen. he's angry about the inaction and complicity of the ordinary people around him.

these scenes aren't highlighting that light thinks crime is bad. we all know crime is bad. the point of these scenes is to contrast light's frustration and fury against the reactions of the people around him. here's what light yagami is seeing: we're surrounded with rot. but nobody's reacting. and then life just goes on. so suddenly all those completely normal scenes of people being concerned with the superficial details of their life aren't just normality, they're complicity. day in, day out. so the world is rotting, and to light, it seems that everyone is completely ok with that. that's just the way things are. and that disgusts and depresses him. on top of than that, it isolates him: he feels like he's the only one who sees or cares about this, that everyone dismisses him as naive, that no one else can be trusted, that everyone else is able to ignore something he sees as inexcusable. this is a sentiment he repeats again and again. it reads as arrogance, and it is, but it's also isolation - after all it's lonely at the top and just as lonely to feel like you're at the top even if you arent

can i talk about the iliad again? is that ok with everyone. im gonna talk about the iliad again

in book 1 of the iliad, the commander of the greek army insults achilles by publicly and unlawfully taking a prize (the girl briseis) who rightfully belonged to achilles. achilles reacts by withdrawing his troops from the army, dooming the greeks' campaign. achilles had a lot of friends in the army, so why would he essentially sentence them all to death for something that only agamemnon did? well, (because agamemnon did something publicly that everyone knew was wrong, and yet nobody was willing (or at least able) to stand up for achilles and stop it from happening. achilles, disgusted by the inaction of the bystanders, turned his back on all of them. fun fact i nearly wrote a mini thesis (an academic one not just a long post on tumblr) about the intersection btwn this book of the iliad and legal theory but law+classics is such a niche interdisciplinary field my professor couldnt find anyone who could supervise me so i couldnt do it. anyway that's not the point

is this right or fair? who cares, not the point. what im interested in is what that kind of behaviour says about the individual. light, like achilles, is a highly idealistic person. we all know that in the abstract, but take a second to really really dig into it, because it's actually quite an interesting fact about a character who is popularly understood as being cold and unfeeling or flatly psychotic and on a power trip. idealism isn't naivety, it's not optimism, it's not even really a happy thing. idealism is simply a firm belief in the way things should be at the cost of refusing or being unable to accept what is.

this is the core of light yagami to me. light doesn't become kira because he's cold or destructive or crazy. he doesn't actually even do it because he's spiteful or misanthropic. it's very much the opposite. he's misanthropic because he believes in the world so much. isn't that a great contradiction! ok here i'll show you some proof.

in an early scene (also in volume 1), light describes himself as an optimist and ryuk finds that interesting.

so light is an optimist. he believes in a bright future for humanity. he wants to protect humanity. he likes humanity. no, he doesn't believe that people are inherently good, but he does believe in some goodness as a part of humanity and wants to protect the best of people, in an egotistical way:

how do we reconcile that with a young man who walks through the streets listening to completely ordinary conversations by ordinary people and reacts by wishing death on everyone talking?

let's split out what's going on here. remember what's happening in light's head. light yagami is 17 years old. he grew up with a police chief for a father (in a fictional world where the police are the literary stand-in for law as justice so just pretend for a second that police are good im sorry), watching his father work tirelessly to fight crime - but crime continues, making this an endless, thankless task. and while crime continues, so does the world around him. every day light sees atrocities on the news, and he sees atrocities brought home, and then he lives his ordinary life and watches the people around him apparently not give a shit, only concerned with the petty details of their own little lives. bystanders watching wrong happen, selfishly unaffected. day in, day out. that idealism is getting colder the longer this unendurable injustice goes on. so achilles condemns his friends to death.

what human trait is being exhibited? realistically it's helplessness. would being miserable about crime help to end crime? of course not. people have to go on with their lives, that's a fact, it's even a strength. even light begins the series completely unable to do a thing about the rot he sees around him, which is part of why he's so depressed. but that's not what light is seeing. light is seeing ordinary people appear to choose not to give a fuck about injustice. the thing that's sparking his disgust is apathy, real or apparent. light yagami is an idealist. he wants a better future - a utopia that only he can imagine - something that can only happen if either everyone becomes as good as he is, or he takes control.

if you leave an idealist in an unwinnable situation for too long, their pure belief will start to curdle. it will not turn to realism. they will not accept what is. they will only become more and more bitter that what should be, isn't. they will become a cynicist. this is really the heart of my argument and ive made it a million times and ill make it again. idealism and cynicism are not opposites, they're not even two sides of a coin. they are two points on the same line which moves very quickly in only one direction. this is where i start when im writing him: how do i make someone who believes so hard that it's killing him? someone who believes so hard it makes him believe in nothing?

then we find the third point on that line, which someone can reach by gaining sudden power - for example, a magic notebook that kills people: radicalisation.

how do we reconcile his desire to protect humanity with the fact that what he's trying to protect against is also humanity? how can i say light loves humanity when he has such disdain for them? easy peasy: light sees himself as the messiah. my bumper sticker that says ask me about light's martyr complex PLEASE ask me about light's martyr complex i wrote a song about it ask me about light seeing himself as the sacrificial lamb on the (and then the bumper sticker cuts off)

light loves humanity the way a twisted shepherd might love his sheep. something to be protected, but something beneath you that can't be trusted to know what's best for them. humanity is something he loves because it's endearingly pathetic, something to pity and save. repeatedly he refers to becoming kira as a personal sacrifice, something that costs him his soul but that he has to do. it's a delusion of grandeur driven by dual purposes of ego and some desperate wish to change a status quo he's been despairing about for years.

tl;dr: light believes with all his soul in something he thinks is impossible, and it's killing him slowly, and then a chance to change the world just falls out of the sky

L - isolate yourself until you can make believe it's just a game

steeples fingers. i have Things to Say about L Lawliet.

ok listen. listen. Listen. listen. are you listening? listen. in general i think people kind of misunderstand characters who are hyper-intellectual and/or behave unconventionally in social settings. you're all going to fucking kill me for this but i think there's a tendency to like... accidentally turn any character who falls vaguely in this broad category into sheldon cooper. god im sorry i feel like i just shot everyone's collective dog

specifically what i mean by that is that 'awkward' gets flanderised in a way that eventually becomes a caricature of itself, because there is so much nuance to actual social awkwardness that it's very easy to kind of pick a template and stick to it without really thinking about what makes that character 'awkward' and what the root and type of awkwardness is, unique to them. so instead we just get, like... generic big word user. generic driven by logic and logic alone guy. generic guy who doesn't Do Well with other people, for Smart Reasons.

here's a list of true things about L which i think are safe to say are uncontroversial

intuitive

logical, master of deductive reasoning

competitive

behaves in an odd way that draws attention

is aware of that fact

focuses extremely hard on his cases and only cares about being a detective not anything else

isolates himself and doesn't like talking to people partly for his own safety partly because it's boring to him

here are things i have seen in characterisation of L which i would like to dispute

makes decisions and draws conclusions based solely on logic and evidence

doesn't understand social cues

here's a list of alternate interpretations which i would like to propose and that i am willing to back up with evidence and/or by physically fighting over them

is driven primarily not by logic or evidence, but by incredible intuition which is supported by logic and evidence when it suits him

has a keen understanding of people, interpersonal relationships, and social norms

leverages that understanding frequently to his benefit

feels that he is not capable of / not a part of emotions that he sees as being typically human (see his speech about being a monster)

and yet in an abstract and self-contradictory and low-priority way still kind of desires connection, leaving him emotionally isolated

chooses to behave oddly on purpose, not because he doesn't realise he's behaving oddly, but because it is not a priority for him

those might seem like fine distinctions at some points, but stray slightly off the mark and his characterisation begins to vary wildly. for example, interpret L as being bemused or unaware of social cues, and one possible characterisation that may stem from that understanding (which i have seen) is that L doesn't understand sarcasm or jokes - which is demonstrably untrue. L demonstrates weak social skills because social skills aren't a priority for him, not because he doesn't understand social norms. after all he does a reasonably convincing 'i am a normal dudeguy' voice on at least two occasions (suzuki the information line guy and asahi the calling matsuda for drinks guy). even with the taskforce, when his behaviour is more of his usual bizarre self, he still makes the effort to treat them respectfully and meet them where they are, explaining himself when they ask, chatting with them, holding ordinary conversations. you can read this any number of ways but my point is that he can do all of this with relatively little struggle

it's also very much not the case that L doesn't have feelings or care about other people. he's ruthless and he's cool with causing people to die if he has to, but he reacts with visible distress to the deaths of the FBI agents, to ukita's death, to the prospect of other members of the taskforce dying. he does care, he's just not morally driven as a priority.

ok but if he can cosplay as Normal Dudeguy with no trouble then why doesn't he. why does he conduct all his business in dark rooms apart from the entire world forever. is it gauche to use a section of my own fic to explain my point? im going to do it anyway

It is easy to identify in Light what he has long known in himself. That little pearl of disruption, grown around an irritating grain of something just unique and tremendous enough to be uncomfortable to the more ordinary around them. L has hidden it by hiding himself. Light has hidden it by hiding within himself. L's black letter is to Light’s vapid smile is to Kira's invisible bullet.

(honestly a lot of what i have discussed here is also covered in this fic so in case this fucking three thousand word essay is not enough for you you can go read that.)

something L and light significantly have in common is that their intellect and unique way of thinking really set them apart from everyone in the world, which is incredibly isolating. but while L has the 'benefit' (arguably could be a detriment but i think he sees it as a benefit) of a unique upbringing which allows him to use his skills to their full extent without worrying about really anything else, light is very much trapped by social convention. while light's life is privileged and materially perfect, he's stuck inside what society expects of him, while L is able to exist completely outside that paradigm. the result is that light has retreated within himself and spends all day playing a part, barely tolerating the monotony and apathy of the world around him by mechanically performing as expected while smothering the part of him that never has an opportunity to truly come out until kira. L, on the other hand, has no reason to put up with a society that is, for lack of a better term, really just beneath him. so he retreats. remember that the first volume/chapter of the manga is called 'boredom'.

you can see that even in his comparatively limited interactions with the task force, he is having to exercise a level of patience to explain to them what he's thinking at every stage, to have to defend his methods, his instincts, his decisions, etc, needing to step through every stage of his reasoning so that the others can follow and won't object. this is NOT just about masking his odd behaviour, it's also very much about having to step through his morals and his process, which is second nature to him but is new to everyone else and needs explaining. it is visibly exhausting to him, and this is with people he actually seems to like well enough. eg during yotsuba arc when light and soichiro keep raising moral concerns, and he has those little "here we go again" moments (which i love SO much and are so telling of him to me) even though he doesn't let his frustration show. which is why he usually does not bother with it and prefers to work alone. he sits the way he does even though he knows it's odd, because he feels he need to sit that way. when light calls it out, he doesn't question that people will think he's strange, so he's clearly aware. he just explains himself.

but if he were out with people on the regular, he'd need to defend himself constantly. the things L does are not conventional. yes the sitting is just an oddity of his so it's a good example, but it's not just the things that are odd that cause a problem: he frequently makes decisions which seem to make massive leaps of logic nobody else (except light) can follow, and often his actions are morally questionable or even reprehensible. all that is because L is extremely pragmatic and results-focused. it kind of doesn't matter to him how he gets from A to B as long as he gets to B. but the way his mind works is that he makes big jumps that make perfect sense to him but would draw curiosity or objection from anyone who doesn't think the way he does. it would be absolutely exhausting to have to constantly defend every strange or questionable thing he did, so he just retreats.

when he works with other people, i think it's worth noting that the team dynamic never actually struggles for L's awkwardness. this is something i really like about death note honestly - L is quirky and strange, but the series doesn't do that thing where it's like He's A Genius Of Course He's Rude To Everyone. he's actually not. for the most part, L is courteous, patient, and polite. he's sometimes blunt or abrupt, but he very rarely does the thing where he's obliviously cruel or brushes people off. he's considerate of people's needs, he's visibly compassionate of other people's emotional difficulties, and he very rarely loses his patience. when matsuda tries to tell the locked-up light about kira resuming activity, L snaps "Matsuda!" to stop him, and then immediately corrects himself to go "I mean, Matsuda-san." it would have been really easy for the series to do that tropey shit where he's so smart that he doesn't bother with politeness, but he factually does. he makes the effort to treat people politely even when he's not actually being kind. when he's asked to explain himself, the reader can see he's tired and annoyed, but he doesn't take it out on people. on the odd occasion he does make fun of someone for being slow, he does so in mostly light-hearted ways. so he is very capable of dealing with other people directly. his lack of social skills aren't for lack of understanding. he just can't be bothered. it's a waste of energy to try and behave 'normally' or to do things that other people find acceptable, whether that's due to social norm or common morality. it is so, so much easier for L to do things alone. without the need to explain or defend his behaviour to anyone, his isolation turns real world problems into something almost purely theoretical. so it really is like a game for him, at least at first.

whatever

i think it's really important for a character like L to not be fooled by the surface-level categorisation of 'smart awkward character'. we really need to find what's driving his awkwardness. it's not ignorance, it's not even really disdain, it's exasperation. he's tired of being surrounded by people who just can't keep up with him, and he does not have enough energy or interest to spend his time handholding everyone through his process, so he just does whatever the hell he wants and avoids people as much as possible so he doesn't have to deal with it.

look i know this is a really long way to say stuff that people mostly already know, but i think L is one of the most finely nuanced characters in the series because he looks like such a simple expression of a known archetype and the ways in which he subverts expectations are so granular that it's easy to completely miss them even while appreciating how interesting he is. the way this translates into how i write him is that he's polite and has a lot of patience until he simply doesn't, at which point he'll inwardly or subtly express that he wishes he didn't have to bother with this shit, that he picks up on fine social and emotional details that other people will totally miss, but that he'll always put his own whims and plans before anything else.

tl;dr: L behaves like someone who is constantly moving at his own pace and for whom dealing with people is rarely worth the effort, but this does not make him inept or unkind.

#i also wanna say i have my own personal headcanons regarding like #l and light's experience with neurodivergence etc #but that doesn't play into my analysis here so much. this is just about how i read their behaviour and motivations #diagnosing fictional characters is not really something i feel comfortable doing out loud #because i dont feel it's my place to do that. ill just keep those thoughts in my head #rookthots #death note #long post #i got this ask in like september #im so sorry #i got stressed about sharing my opinions on the internet so i just sat on it for months #IT'S MY OPINIONS. MY OPINIONS ONLY. only my personal thoughts and opinions #only my personal approach to writing these characters #only my personal fucking doctorate on lightology that im presenting on tumblr

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oxeye-daisyy · 2 years ago

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Please continue to drop 5 paragraphs of lore on us for every ask, it's amazing. So Martyn immediately catches feelings for Ren over him being endearing and sweet, but how does it go on Ren's end? At what point does he start catching feelings and why?

hold on. sorry before i answer this i just have to like, preemptively, hold on, [erases the 1 on the "Days Since Last Oxeye Essay-Length Loredrop" whiteboard and replaces it with a 0] there we go, all is right in the world now (:

so like. okay. i don't think ren could pick out when it started because like... y'know, sometimes it's just proximity, right? you spend a lot of time with someone because like, you know, you wanna make him feel actually welcome on this world and make sure he actually likes staying here instead of just, continuing to be trapped but just in a bigger place than he's been trapped in the past few years?

so you hang out with him, which is easy enough because he's eager enough to thank you for the stuff you gave him, and chat about stuff like what everyone's been up to (and you really lean on talking about grian and pearl because you know he knows them, and, uh, you purposefully try to not address when the moon crashed on the world last season), and then what you've been up to, and then if he has any plans for what he's going to do when he's on the world, and when he blanches a bit at that and says well, he didn't really think that far ahead because it's not like he can just do things and pretend like everything's normal after how he was found, you shrug and mention about how if bdoubleo can fall out of the sky 2/3rds of the way into season six and carry on like everything's normal, he can do the same. he scoffs this little delighted scoff at that and says that can't be a real thing that actually happened, you retort that it did and he can ask anyone and they'll tell him the same, including bdoubleo, and he laughs and you laugh and neither of you says anything but you both know you're gonna be doing this again.

and you don't think about it then and you don't think about it when he takes it upon himself to help you with the shopping district roads even when the hermits helping hermits group aren't there with him and tells you about his plans to start a national park and do terraforming and he talks so reverently about nature and he's also finally started to talk loudly but you don't think about it and you keep this pattern of not thinking about it until one day maybe two months later you glance at your feelings the wrong way and see them for what they are and it's like when you nudge sand a little bit and it all falls down and you can't put it back to how it was before. it's like. oh. oh no.

because literally how do you even go about asking the guy who was trapped alone for years to date you like he's not been around people for so long, what if he doesn't even want this, he's probably just happy to actually be Around Other People that are nice to him and you can't go and fuck it up by bringing feelings into this like this can't possibly be a good time for him to have to deal with that stuff!

anyways and then martyn dies for a couple weeks and ren sorta just has to sit on the fact that he never did get to say what he wanted for a couple weeks but that's a different post entirely <3

#anachronism #inthelittlewood #hermitcraft #evolution smp #asks

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sillyfudgemonkeys · 7 years ago

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what's wrong with P5A's characterization? (admittedly I haven't been watching it but I thought you liked it o3o;; )

This is mostly aimed at Anne and Ryuji tbh. Ren…..I like his name, as of the later chapters in the manga I think I might Akira’s personality more….mostly cause he really is a newbie goofball and 100% not like what the fandom considers the MC to be like. It’s kinda refreshing (of course the art doesn’t help but I can slowly see some funny quirks).

This all mostly happens in the first 3 episodes, and tbh sours the first dungeon for me.

Anyway from least irritating to most (there’s 4 things but technically the first two are in the same scene so maybe there’s only 3), Ryuji I think is the worst part but Anne’s is so confusing tho she does actually get railroaded back to her game counterpart the early episodes really screw her character over (anyway basically they have some….OOC moments….big ones….important ones). Sorry it’s not SUPER in depth, maybe later I can go frame by frame between the game, anime, and manga.

Anyway under the cut because in this essay I will be (btw sorry if it’s all over the place)….

Let’s start with the weirdest one….when you first meet her, ok well…the first first one is just a minor one the thing RIGHT AFTER is the weirdest one. Ok so there’s more going on in the anime/game than the manga, but the anime unlike the game has dialogue. That’s fine….thing is…..the manga might do….a better job with capturing Anne’s character than the anime did. I mean it’s less shippy (but we get new shippy scenes later I’ll get to that). I mean let’s look at her reaction to the MC staring at her:

Game:

Manga:

Anime:

What’s the difference?

The smile. Doesn’t Anne look friendlier in the Game/Manga? Isn’t your first impression….”huh she seems nice!” I think the anime tried to give her more of an action like “actions speak louder than words” kinda thing, with her taking the petal off of the MC’s head. “See? Isn’t she nice? She helped remove the thing he couldn’t see!” And, I get what they are trying to do there, but she still comes off as coldish. I said a second ago they wanted to give her an action, but the thing is…..smiling is already an action! A very simple one! She’s already showing she’s friendly by giving him a greeting smile (or just a polite one). Also the way it’s presented, the manga and game give off a warmer atmosphere than the anime. The game’s colors are soft and bright and welcoming (and she’s drawn in a softish way), the anime it’s darker and dreary. The manga, even tho it’s black and white and has a plain ass background, Anne is drawn in such a soft way, it’s even shaded a little to give off her being illuminated (like notice the lower corners where it’s darker, the way it’s shaded the light is drawn to her fact brightening out her smile).

Like we got all we needed to know from our first meeting in both the game/manga, she’s friendly. Maybe the anime wanted to amplify her cold exterior to make the “oh she’s really friendly underneath” hiddens side of her a reveal…..but….the thing is….THEY DIDN’T DO THAT! They set it up with no pay off, like it would’ve been different and I can’t knock them for that, but now it’s just different FOR NO REASON! Like the game/manga show she’s friendly, and later we see her colder wall she puts up all while hearing rumors and putting the pieces together as to WHY she has a cold wall, all while knowing she’s friendlier than she appears. And if the anime wanted to do something different that’s fine but it didn’t follow through so it’s an issue for me.

Anyway, again, it’s minor, it still bugs me tho. Moving on to….when we first meet Kamoshida in the car. And this one is weird. Let’s compare Anne again.

Game:

Manga:

Anime:

What’s the difference?

It’s the way they look, the way the lines are delivered, the dialogue, the way she moves. I mean one thing to keep in mind is they want to have her smile so they can cut away to her looking unhappy and have you thing “hmmmmm something is up.”

Game!Anne, her smile is mandatory polite (smile cause it’s the right thing to do, she probably also did this in mind with the MC too but hey she had the music with him and not Kamo 8V basically what I’m trying to say a person who is uber cold wouldn’t politely smile and at the same time just cause they smile doesn’t mean they are happy). Her dialogue is also a bit….apprehensive, and just mandatory polite as well. It’s what I would say if I didn’t want to get in the car with someone but also had no reason to say no. Anyway the cut to her looking upset shows us her real emotions.

Manga!Anne however really doesn’t look pleased, I mean you could totally read it as “relief,” possibly due to not being trapped in the rain. Same as the game, it cuts away to her not looking happy (and actually amplifies it some more in the manga with Kamoshida talking to her).

Anime!Anne. Unlike the other two, she had yet to show a smile, unlike the other two who came off as polite with no wall, Anime!Anne does not have that frame of reference. Instead it’s a juxtaposition. She had a bit of a wall but then as soon as Kamo showed up, she bursted out into this big smile. Her words are a bit more eager, it looks like she practically runs to the car (while she just casually walks to it in the other versions). She seems happy. Sure maybe it’s cause she doesn’t need to be in the rain. But again, this is the first time we’ve seen her smile. Then it cuts away to her not looking happy. It’s…..it’s some whiplash man. I think it’s cause they wanted us to buy into thinking Anne is Kamo’s girl by choice….. I mean later in ep 2 Kamo shows jealousy over the fact the MC was with Anne alone. But the thing is….this misdirection makes no sense, they don’t spend nor have the time to slow things down to make us wonder. The whole plot point is useless because it’s dropped very fast considering her later reactions in ep 2.

Side minor nitpick before moving on. I don’t like the way they introduce Ryuji. The Game/Manga have him running after Kamo’s car, well after Kamo has driven away (not aware of Ryu even approaching). The anime has Ryujis slowly approaching the car and Kamo takes notice and has him drive off. I dunno it feels weird, Ryu would totally run after that car and Kamo wouldn’t really give a shit about Ryu approaching. Minor but a bit annoying, this change wasn’t needed.

Now onto…..my biggest problems with how they handled Anne, it’s this scene, this fudging scene right here:

This did not happen in the game. This did not happen in Spain. This did not happen in the Game writer’s brain. It did not happen here Nor there. It did not happen anywhere. It did not happen in the manga. It did not happen under Obama. It did not happen in a conga. It did not happen here nor there. It did not happen anywhere. SO WHY THE FUDGE IS IT HAPPENING HERE?????

First off half of this convo is taking place a day early, they are talking about Shiho’s volleyball problems which is suppose to take place the next day on the bench:

OH THE BENCH SCENE STILL TAKES PLACE! But they change the first half of the dialogue to reflect the optional dialogue you can hear when talking to the volleyball team, WHICH INSTEAD HAPPENS A DAY PRIOR TO THE BENCH DAY:

(let’s play I was using didn’t have them talk to Anne/Shiho but there’s the location/date, it’s about the same dialogue, talking about how BS the rumors are about the MC).

But like what purpose does the corridor thing hold??? Cause when I first saw it I thought they were moving the bench scene. But obviously that didn’t happen. So why include it? Then I realized it was suppose to replace this scene:

The scene they are reinterpreting is happening a day later in the anime (4/13), with the bench scene still taking place (4/14) in the anime, but it moves the optional scene from the game (4/13, mentioned above) to 4/14 as well. They also removed Anne telling them to be careful about asking questions (4/13 in the game) to 4/14 when the bench scene is taking place. Giving Anne a more aggressive/protective role over Shiho, rather than going out of her way to warn them where it doesn’t involve Shiho at all (the manga did something similar to he anime). Now before we got back to the corridor and why it’s just SO FREAKING BAD, the reason why I don’t like Anne telling off the guys in the anime/manga is because it makes her ignorant. It brings about her now being aware of Kamo’s bad traits and the rumors to full force. The game she just knows they are going around and trying to dig up dirt about Kamo and considering what happen to Ryuji a year prior, she’s like “Guys she’s a teacher you aren’t going to win.” Coupled with the fact she’s kept in the dark about what they are investigating, as opposed to the anime (the manga she’s still in the dark, but it’s still a negative because she didn’t approach them herself to warn them they are getting into deep shit, you know cause she actually cares).

Moving the confrontation also hurts the anime. In the game, it’s before Shiho gets bruised (or at least before Anne can see Shiho to see she’s bruised). The manga it happens right after Shiho mentions spraining her wrist but it’s def played off more convincingly that it was just a normal practice that did that. She does seem to attempt to tell Anne the truth, but Anne misreads what she was trying to say and assumed it was how she felt inadequate about her spot on the team (which they were also just discussing earlier). And….it works out fine, sure Anne loses some of her caring points from the game (so only real issue with that) but she’s in the dark about the truth so that’s good (from a story stand point that is). But why is it bad in the anime? It’s because…..she hears something is up with the volleyball club, and doesn’t believe Ryu/Ren LITERALLY AFTER LOOKING AT SHIHO’S INJURIES. ANNE IS NOT THIS DUMB (and no her CoOp doesn’t cout that is filled with OOC messes too). Outside her CoOp, Anne is characterized as being able to pick up on people’s emotions. She can read people pretty well (when the writers don’t depower that ability cause they suck). She would’ve figured it out right then and there.

Anyway what’s wrong with the corridor scene? Other than screwing up the bench scene from here to hell? Just look at it. Look at those two pictures. WHat do you see? Anne gets invited to join the club and she bails. SHE BAILS! AND SHE GETS AN IN! WHAT THE FUDGE?! Like, no nononononon nonono no NOOOO NO! nO FOR ONE aNNE WOULD NOT BAIL ON SHIHO LIKE THAT! She can actually watch Shiho, be near her, one of the issues in the game is that Anne doesn’t see Shiho often. Their lifeline to each other is cut. Yeah maybe Kamo would try something with those two, but I think he wouldn’t want to take his chances since it’d be hard to fight off two at once. So Anne SHOULD be in the clear, him talking to her after the club would be a new issue, but ANNE WOULD TOTALLY GO TO THE CLUB TO WATCH SHIHO FIGHT ME. And as for reason number two as to why this scene sucks. It’s the life line, you can see in the game’s bench scene, even in the manga, Anne can’t follow Shiho. She has no in. She’s an outsider. She doesn’t know what’s going on because she’s an outsider and she can’t make Shiho talk. That’s one of the big conflicts of the game (and manga). She’s not on the team, she’s not on some committee like the Student Council, the most she can do for Shiho is cheer her on and try to string Kamo along. But what does Anime!Anne get? A FUDGING IN! The one thing Anne needed in P5, not to be an outsider, she gets an invitation to a thing she needed and she turns it the fudge down!! LIke no! Noooo???!!!!

*inhales* As you can see I have issues with this on a number of levels. Now do I think it could’ve worked in the anime? Hell yes. Reorder everything to the right order from the game. Change the corridor scene to the optional scene you can overhear with Anne/Shiho on 4/13 talking about the MC and rumors, they split up and after Shiho rounds the corner Kamo catches Anne and the 4/12 scene (the one that MC overhears) happens. Anne declines him and walks away, cut to Shiho who is like “oh I need to tell Anne something” and have her round the corner and run into Kamo. The scene from the anime plays out where he abuses her. This way Anne doesn’t get an in and doesn’t abandon Shiho. Now move Anne yelling at Ren/Ryu about digging up dirt about Kamo, where she shows concern about them, but they don’t reveal any info so she’s still in the dark. Then the bench scene plays out like in the game with no interruptions, and they question Shiho like in the game.

*inhales* Ok now let’s go to Ryu……Thankfully this should be more straight forward. But man, even the manga got Ryuji right (or at least didn’t get him wrong like the anime did).

Ok so we all know the issue with Ryuji (and by extension the MC) right? Both are “protector of women” in the first arc, very respectable (well the MC does have the one line I didn’t like but haha we’ll get that THAT in a second), just good guys all around. Then everything post-dungeon 1 it’s “let’s make everything horribly sexual and objectify Anne and IT’S OK IF WE DO IT CAUSE WE’RE THE MAIN CHARACTERS!” Yeah THAT problem. One of the reasons the first dungeon is my fav. So let’s compare how Ryuji reacts to seeing Cognitive Anne (as well to the other sexual imagery) shall we?

Game:

Anime:

Manga:

Before I rip into it, the manga they don’t actually showcase his good boy status like in the game, but they also don’t make him a perv so I’ll fudging take it. And yeah I think it’s Akira talking in that panel, but again, Ryuji isn’t acting like a perv and she’s clearly not happy. (also they never see Cognitive Anne till Anne’s awakening, which….and Mona falls for the real Anne instead of the Cognition as he first meets her when she accidentally gets pulled into the Metaverse)

So……remember how I had a minor nitpick with how they introduced Ryuji? Him not running? Well there was……another thing I realized while typing this. Anime Ryuji doesn’t call Kamo a pervy teacher when he first speaks, Game/Manga!Ryuji do but not Anime!Ryuji. Instead he just calls him a bastard, but not a perv. He doesn’t call him a perv till Anne’s awakening in the anime. YEs this is important. Game/Manga!Ryuji make a point that they hate how pervy Kamo is, and how horrified they are of his perviness. Anime!Ryuji doesn’t until it’s too late. Is it more in-character considering the perv pile he becomes post-dungeon 1 in-game? Maybe, but why would you wanna double down on that? Ryuji was great in dungeon 1! Anyway Ryuji doesn’t show his horror until it’s too late, instead he avoids calling Kamo a perv so he’s not seen as a hypocrite in terms of perving, but then they just…..make him a hypocrite anyway cause he still calls Kamo a perv just later after perving himself. It’s just…..what the fudge….

Also did you notice, the “so jealous line” was originally the MC’s. Now I hate the line, but it really makes no sense for Ryu to say it esp during dungeon 1. I mean it makes no sense for the MC to say it (this is probably why I hate the MC, I really hate some of his “cheeky lines). But why give….a character that already speaks…a lot more than the silent MC? Why give Ryuji one that makes him look worse to boot???? Like I didn’t like Yu Narukami or the P4 Anime, but it at least made sense why Yu took Yosuke’s “hey it’s the pint size detective” line from him. Yu needs more lines, so does Ren. So why add something unnecessary when you could just give Ren more lines? It’s just…..I’m sorry this really pisses me off. This really killed my goodwill for the anime, and it was dead by episode 3 (but I did finish arc 1).

Like, the anime did two good things that remember from those eps, 1) Having Kamo be jealous over the MC for being near Anne and the rumors about Ren/Anne hitting on each other (cause it’s SOOOOO in character for him, 2) Shiho’s abuse being shown. And I do like the idea that they are….slightly capitalizing on the fact they are suppose to have their personality change when in the Metaverse (this is mostly Ren tho), but I saw it with Anne as well. I mean they promised that with the game and I thought they did jack with it. Anyway not sure how much they’ve….continue to capitalized on it but…..at least they tried. Tho I think I prefer the manga the most in this case, just a bunch of useless, newbie doofuses trying their best but they know they aren’t all that. Instead of being a bunch of useless thieves who think they are all that but really they all suck at being thieves (more of a game problem than the anime but tbh considering how Ren is cocky in the anime I wouldn’t be surprised if this was a shared problem).

#persona 5 problems #p5 problems #anime problems #silly rants #anon #asks #silly asks #silly ask #ask

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knightofbalance-13 · 8 years ago

Text

It’s Only Homophobic If I Don’t Like It/All LGBT People Must Think Like ME!

https://rwbycrit.tumblr.com/post/163790412947/speaking-over-lgbt-people-totally-okay-sarcasm

AKA Double Standard the post.

oh boy is there a lot to dissect in this one. first, hey dude, are you lgbt in any way, shape, or form? at all? if not, shut the fuck up

1. Actually, yes I am. I occupy a weird space between heterosexual and demisexual to my neurological condition. So you’re first point is immediately invalidated. And in fact, due to your accusations, your entire post either falls because of this...or you yourself are homophobic.

2. Yeah....and yet when Dudeblade does this later, you don’t call it out at all. You let it go even though, by your logic, he’s doing the exact same thing as me. But since it’s what you want, it’s not homophobic. so screw any LGBT people who didn’t agree with you huh?

there isâ€¦. a lot of casual homophobia here. 1. â€œyou peopleâ€ 2. â€œbitching about every straight coupleâ€ 3. â€œscreeching homophobiaâ€ like. slow down, dude. the post has only just begun and youâ€™re being homophobic.

Yeah...except that I call out Dudeblade in the exact same manner as this person, group him in with the “you people” and talk about him with the others and in fact most of my ange ron him...and he’s straight. Now what do they actually have in common? Being RWDE posters. So either you’re an idiot or you are willfully misrepresenting what I say.

there you go with that "you peopleâ€ bs again. 1. calling the lgbt community â€œtoxicâ€ is literal homophobic rhetoric. 2. you say blame rt like itâ€™s not their faultâ€¦. are they not to blame for making the conscious decision to not include even one (1) lgbt character in 5 years/4 volumes lmao?

1. Look at the point above: You just look homophobic for thinking that the LGBT community is a hivemind.

2. Did they ever SAY when the character was coming? No? Then they don’t have a deadline to meet ergo they can take their sweet ass time doing it, as creators are entitled to do.

1. itâ€™s been five (5) years, my dude. weâ€™re way past â€œnot immediately. 2. lgbt characters are not something lgbt viewers should have to sit and wait for, or â€â€œdeserveâ€â€œ (in I believe Montyâ€™s wordsâ€). they are not prizes.

And you are not LGBT viewers: You are RWDE viewers which is not wholely made of LGBT people. Funny how most of your arguments fall apart by looking at the context huh?

this is so homophobic lmao i canâ€™t believe im reading it with my own two fucking eyes. 1. â€œeveryone blames the lgbt communityâ€ everyone does that anyway 2. â€œyou are that insecure about yourselves that everything must mirror youâ€ youâ€™re the one witting a fucking essay about how shows donâ€™t need to have an lgbt character and can be filled to the brim with cishets, my dude. it looks like one of us is the insecure one, and itâ€™s not the lesbian lmao 3. also nice blaming the lgbt community for homophobia. like, thanks homophobe, never heard that one before

1. Actually, a few of your members (read: RWDE) have said that being straight is dragging the show down so that’s a lie.

2. Well, I'm not the one taking your words out of context and making everything fall apart simply by existsing and context. If you were so secure about yourself, you wouldn’t NEED an LGBT character in your show. I usually don’t give a shit about a person or character’s sexuality unless it has massively creepy undertones (like Puri Puri Prisoner from One Punch Man. Seriously, fuck that guy, going around attacking and molesting people just because he’s stronger. Hero my fucking ass.)

3. Once again, you are displaying the thought process of “Every LGBT person MUST think like em or else they are not LGBT.” AKA LGBT people are not like normal people and are a hivemind. Which, like I have said in this very post, is homophobic.

1. MILES also made this promise, you dumb fuck 2. they do have the obligation to include an lgbt character lmao 3. no they donâ€™t. 4. calling lgbt people abusers lmao. love that Homophobiaâ„¢ 5. what actions and how are they irredeemableâ€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.. ?????? calling rt out on not including an lgbt character in 5 years despite promising us and then making me sit thru the â€˜Life and Times of Jaune Arc, Sad Heterosexual Boyâ€™? get fucked

1. Proof. 2. Not anymore: You people (read; RWDE) have pretty much shown that if you are given anything, you will tear everything to shreds so if they never do it: You have only your selves to blame. 3. Ah so they are not allowed to do anything you don’t want them to do. Sounds familiar... (https://helpguide.org/articles/abuse/domestic-violence-and-abuse.htm) 4. Nope, calling RWDE absuers: Glad to see you cannot comprehend that LGBT people are, shock, people with different ideas because sexuality is mostly a non factor in how a person is. 5. Give me a minute: https://knightofbalance-13.tumblr.com/post/163768158700/hey-remember-what-a-mirror-is (A gleeful assortment of what just one person has done.) https://bluepulserjaime.tumblr.com/post/163547055676/so-just-because-jaune-was-in-a-dress-and-camp (trying ti remove freedom of speech. Also he said that the CRWBY are only being praised because they are white. http://dudeblade.tumblr.com/post/163589308451/just-because-jaune-was-in-a-dress-and-camp-camp#notes Oh hey, you’re in there too!) https://sokumotanaka.tumblr.com/post/163181907124/okay-so (Supporting a guy who outright insulted Monty) https://rwby-analysis.tumblr.com/post/162751186437/ejladybug-its-pretty-low-to-accuse-someone-of (ATTACKING an LGBT person because, get this, they didn’t insult Miles and Kerry) That enough because I can go into the harassment, the bigotry, the double standard, the attacks against other LGBT people, the devaluing of human life and so on.

how are you even comparing critiquing a show and itâ€™s writing to actual, real life ABUSE, you disgusting human being?

also, who the fuck is the victim in this? rt??????

Ah yes, critique...that consists of lying, msirepresneting and cheating...and attacking the writers while trying to get them fired so a woman can take over...constantly insulting them while saying you are their fans...then trying to humiliate them by making a spectacle and then blaming them...while treating them as a factory for LGBT characters or as robots that should only do as they say instead of people...Making the CRWBY hesitant to answer any and all questions that might set you off...as you control what they do, when they do it...Like an abuser (https://helpguide.org/articles/abuse/domestic-violence-and-abuse.htm)

So yes, yes they are.

1. jaune asking weiss to the dance 2. weiss giving neptune Sad Heterosexual Looks bc she had a crush on him 3. pyrrha being a Sad Heterosexual bc she has an ~unrequited love~ for jaune 4. pyrrha literally kissing jaune 5. ren and noraâ€™s background and Meaningful Heterosexual Looks, all but confirming renora 6. not to mention all the more one liners about how many characters are SO attracted to the 'opposite genderâ€™ (ie qrow with the waitress)

1. ah yes, because t’s bad if a heterosexual is having love woes. Doesn’t TAHT sound bigoted?

2. Ship sank and was sued for character development. 3. Ship also sank and was used for character development. 4. Ship sank. 5. Because Asexuals, demisexuals and bisexuals don’t exist apparently (and both Ren and Nora have aspects of the first two.) 6. Look at 5

yes, 'tis was I, the Homosexual, that was the homophobe all along! anyway, calling out homophobic/transphobic jokes is not homophobic, I canâ€™t believe i actually have to say that.

Yes...except those jokes are not what you call them. By this logic, every joke ever made is some kind of phobic and thus humor as a whole shouldn’t exist. And since people make jokes about straight and cisgender people, logically they are allowed to make the same jokes for LGBT people. That IS what equality means.

â€œthe lgbt community doesnâ€™t deserve anythingâ€ ohhhhhh my god

“Only people who think like me are LGBT” Really, whose the homophobe here?

1. itâ€™s probably because bumbleby is? the most popular? lgbt ship? in? the fandom?????? 2. im not even gonna TOUCH on asexuality and the lgbt community lmao 3. also like Bumbleby can, in fact, be a ship made up of not only two lesbians, but two bisexual women, a bisexual woman and a lesbian, a pansexual woman and a lesbian, or a bisexual woman and a pansexual woman. 4. just say you hate wlw and go!

1. And what about the people who don’t like Bumbleby and are LGBT? Like this person (https://darkvioletcloud.tumblr.com/post/163803510478/rwde-and-rwby-critical-is-making-me-hate-bumblebee) 2. Because if you don’t consider them LGBT because they aren’t you. 3. And you can have two gay men, one bisexual man and one gay man, one bisexual man and one pansexual man, one pansexual woman and one bisexual man, two pansexual men or woman, one pansexual man and woman, one bisexual man and woman. Bumbleby is not your only option for LGBT representation. Or are you just using the guise of representation to force your ship? Seems that way to me. 4. I don’t: I’m a White Rose Shipper. You’re the one who hates anything not wlw from your attitude.

1. im not going to comment about the suicide baiting bc i honestly know nothing about it so 2. didnâ€™t you, earlier, in this very post, say treating the lgbt community like it was a hive mind is homophobic? and yet.

1. Another example of irredeemable shit. 2. I know one would because one HAS done it. My friends in this fandom are all LGBT and they have called this out too. Hell, the guy I linked to is bi AND trans. No one likes being used for another’s agenda. Also, you have been acting LIKE the LGBT community is a hivemind. 3. Dudeblade is straight and talking over LGBT people: He’s doing what you accused me of. And yet not a word against him. Double Standard much?

1. renora was suggested from the beginning 2. pyrrha and jaune literally kissed on the mouth in literally the most cliche, heterosexual way possible

1. And by your logic, so was WHite Rose and Bumbleby: Not a counter 2. Ah yes because hetersosexuality Is inherently bad like a cliché. Because homosexuality and it’s kin should just be marketing ploys to make something look good and original when it’s actually shit. That’s not homophobic at all.

1. i canâ€™t believe one (1) man is doing all this! by just criticizing an internet show on a micro-blogging website. amazing. 2. this is now a joke post bc heterophobia ISNT REAL aldjajdjahskshh im literally close to tears rn fuck oh my god

1. More like a group of people encouraging a dangerous mindset and being toxic as shit by encouraging an abusive relationship between fans and creators. 2. Considering you used “cishet” which is a deragitory word used to devalue heterosexuals and cisgender people as if they are beneath you: You are a perfect example of heterophobia. Also: If heterophobia isn’t real then it’s counterpart isn’t real. That’s right. you just insinuated that HOMOPHOBIA isn’t real. Good job there. 3. What abouyt the homophobia argument? The sexism argument? The racism argument? Are those just accepted as truth? Well then: Glad to see you admit it.

not very logically indeed, kob

That’s a mirror you’re talking to dumbass.

#rwde bullshit #rwbycrit

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