#And said: hey Mel THIS is Azor Ahai! THIS is your king!

[jonsnowunemploymentera]

Melisandre is one of my favorite minor POVs mostly because of how GRRM plays with the all-powerful mage trope. See the deconstruction with her is that despite her antics, she’s actually very powerful and all her visions are legit. It’s just that she absolutely sucks at interpreting said visions, mostly because she has all these preconceived notions and is very stubborn about them. And even when the answer is staring right at her (literally), she just doubles down. And it can be very frustrating as a reader, to be quite honest.

Like she’s been super gung ho about Stannis Baratheon being Azor Ahai/the Prince that Was Promised, though only R’hllor know why, to the extent that she will flat-out ignore any evidence to the contrary. Her visions in ADWD essentially scream that Azor Ahai is someone different (not Stannis!) but good ol’ Mel just won’t budge.

There’s this very hilarious interaction in Jon’s 10th ADWD chapter that essentially spells out all of her problems with visions and prophecy, with Jon serving as the reader’s proxy in some ways.

This interaction happens during Alys Karstark’s wedding feast and Patchface drops some of his weird jingles, which Mel very unsettled by. So she’s turns to Jon and is like, “ugh that dude is so creepy, all my visions tell me so”. And Jon’s reaction to this is super funny, because he’s like:

“You see fools in your fire, but no hint of Stannis?”

Wow Jon lmao

He just had to call her out like that, unprovoked. But his frustration makes sense. He’s constantly been asking about Stannis’ whereabouts but Mel’s responses just aren’t very satisfactory (in his opinion).

Then we get this next line which really just says everything about Mel’s stubbornness and perfectly embodies the deconstruction of the all-powerful seer trope.

“When I search for him all I see is snow.”

So Mel looks for Stannis, whom she believes to be Azor Ahai, in her fires but doesn’t find him. Instead she sees “snow”. And this part tracks with her POV too. We know from her chapter that she constantly sees Jon in her visions. It’s how we get the very interesting “I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R’hllor shows me only Snow” line.

So one would think that Mel might go: “Hmmm I look for the prophesied savior, but I don’t see Stannis. Instead, I only see Snow. I don’t doubt R’hllor’s power so if my visions are true, then maybe I need to rethink a few things”.

One would think…

But nope!

And Jon’s like “Hey maybe you’re not seeing Stannis because he’s super dead, ever think about that Mel?” And she proceeds to spout the usual Azor Ahai stuff and even mentions Dragonstone:

“When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone. Dragonstone is the place of smoke and salt.”

To which Jon’s replies, “uhhhh news flash Stannis was not born on Dragonstone so that doesn’t track”.

Obviously this is Jon’s skepticism but I like to think that he took the reader’s place here. Because many of us have asked ourselves, why oh why would Mel think of Stannis just because she saw Dragonstone? Like yeah, he’s the Lord of Dragonstone but he wasn’t born there. It’s quite a valid question and how does Mel counter it? She doubles down and twist herself into a pretzel to make Stannis fit (even though he doesn’t fit at all!)

Really, Jon’s reaction is essentially what would happen if someone dropped me into the world of ASOIAF and gave me the chance to meet Mel and ask her a few questions. I’d be quite frustrated, just as Jon is here. And to be fair, the reader has a lot of auxiliary information (e.g., Jon’s parentage) that Mel doesn’t have.

But then the next few lines really illustrate just why poor Mel can be so frustrating. Because Jon’s follow up is,

“And what of Mance? Is he lost as well? What do your fires show?”

And what does Mel say?

“The same, I fear. Only snow.”

…??!

Mel!😭

Seriously, I cannot! This is the exact same situation as with Stannis. She looks for a king but only sees Snow. This makes me wonder then, based on previous wording, if she’s specifically looking for “the King Beyond the Wall” (not just “Mance”) and only seeing Snow - at this point, Jon has all but supplanted Mance.

So once again, one would think that Mel would go: hmmmm I look for the King Beyond the Wall but I see Jon Snow and not Mance Rayder. Seeing that Mance’s power has been diminished and Jon Snow is now taking control of the wildlings, maybe I should re-evaluate a few things”.

Yeah, one would think…

Homegirl is trying her best, she really is. But sadly, her best can only get E for Effort.

And at this point the reader is just done with Mel, and Jon is too:

“You are seeing cinders dancing in the updraft.”

He doesn’t even bother to phase it as a question lmao. He just calls her out and doesn’t care.

And we’re in his POV so he’s thinking of the lower case “snow”. Also, why in the hell is Mel referring to Jon like this?

Anyway, this is why I think Jon serves as the reader’s proxy in this conversation because it’s like a thinking exercise (facilitated by the narrative) that ultimately goes nowhere because Mel is so, so stubborn.

Because if we really break it down:

R’hllor/the Narrative: Who do you see when you search for the king/Azor Ahai?

Mel: Jon Snow

R’hllor/the Narrative: Ok…and who do you see when you search for the King Beyond the Wall?

Mel: Erm, Jon Snow…

R’hllor/the Narrative/the Reader: Great! So say it with me. The king you’re looking for is J-

Mel: STANNIS BARATHEON!

R’hllor/the Reader: …?!

And before anyone claims that this is a misdirect, Mel really is seeing Jon Snow. Straight from the horse’s mouth:

“I am seeing skulls. And you. I see your face every time I look into the flames.”

Friend….I don’t even know what to say anymore…

[silkygoldmilkweed]

Tinfoil Theory Q&A w @darklygophilia

(1) 05/08/2018darklygophilia - Hey. If your theory about Sandor being the Azor Ahai, Prince that was Promised and Sansa's his Nissa Nissa (which I believe him to be, too) - What do you think Melisandre's reaction will be? Knowing just how wrong she was in thinking it was Stannis and then Jon Snow. 

(a.) If you want to read all my tinfoiling about this, I think it’s now mostly all tagged under “promised prince” (this phrase is used by Jon late in the books, notice the slight variation in meaning and connotation from Mel’s preferred “the prince that was promised”) and “red sansa” (for my theory that Melisandre’s glamour is a Sansa Stark cosplay that she created without knowing who or what she’s really representing).

(b.) Mel is a colossal fuckup who illustrates the way that religions and cults pervert faith and virtue.  

I suspect Mel might never even know or might figure the truth about “Azor Ahai reborn” about a minute before she dies. Sandor would want nothing to do with her in any case. 

My feeling is that Melisandre will keep talking to Jon and Dany or Davos or Varys or Kinvara or Beric, and bugging them and dumping exposition on them, fruitlessly, but based on what she reveals over the course of the season the AUDIENCE will realize she’s meant to look like Sansa and that Sandor is the Warrior of Light. 

Sandor and Sansa’s hero tale is told on the micro level through the eyes of Sansa and Arya (who are almost the only people Sandor ever really talks to in the books, so far), and on the macro level through Melisandre/Stannis and Bran (he delivers a lot of info about the skinchanging and the role of the Starks in ending the Long Night), with some added narration from Sandor’s assorted spiritual advisors and faith guides: Beric Dondarrion, Thoros of Myr, the Elder Brother, Septon Meribald and Septon Ray (showverse).

Sandor and Sansa themselves may never even know that a cult’s prophecies about their love were the basis of a 5,000-year old religion in Essos. There’s a phrase I like: “World peace is none of your business.” 

The only part that matters to Sansa and Sandor is the part where they are two parts of a whole and they’re finally together again.

tl;dr: Never explain it at the end. Always ruins it. 

(2) And my other question. If your other theory about Sandor/Cersei having once fucked &having possibly had a secret kid (I'm starting to believe this one, you're theories, no matter how tin foil they may seem, always seem to make sense in the end) -How do you think Sansa will react if/when she earns that Sandor once screwed Cersei? 

(a) All my tinfoiling about Sandor x Cersei is tagged “black haired beauty” (after the way Cersei described the baby I suspect they shared), if anyone wants to check it out.

(b) Sansa Stark, upon hearing that long ago--probably before she was even born--young Sandor Clegane was enchanted with young Cersei Lannister: “You fell in love with a beauty you mistook for goodness? I can’t relate.” Sansa will be cool with it because she completely understands falling for a Lannister before realizing they are liars and frauds.

I think the Sandor who fucked Cersei was a stupid boy, and the Sansa who was devoted to her “beloved Joffrey” was a stupid girl, and I think Sandor recognizing his younger, more idealistic self in her is partly why he was so sympathetic. I think by the time we meet him he’s realized he’s spent his life serving dead-enders, and he’s sacrificed both his emotions and his conscience and maybe his own future prospects for...nothing.

If this is not just my deranged ramblings and ever comes out on the book or the show, I imagine Arya would be the most irate. She’ll give Sandor a hilarious and bitchy tongue-lashing and never let him live down that he stuck his dick in crazy.

I truly think Sansa will shrug about Sandor x Cersei, because everyone has a past (who’s worse? Cersei or Joffrey-Littlefinger-Ramsay?), and be very sad about the dead baby, on behalf of grieving father Sandor.

~~~

“Even Joffrey was not so foolish as to command Sandor Clegane to slay a son of Eddard Stark, however; the Hound would have gone to Cersei.“

“Don’t you want to ask who’s winning the battle, little bird?”

“Who?” she said, too frightened to defy him.

The Hound laughed. “I only know who’s lost. Me.”

He is drunker than I’ve ever seen him. He was sleeping in my bed. What does he want here? “What have you lost?”

“All.”

~~~

“The Blackwater? Where do you think I’m taking you?” 

“Back to King’s Landing. To Joffrey and the Queen.”

“Fuck Joffrey. Fuck the Queen.”

“You never love anything in the world the way you love your first child.”

~~~

(MORE TINFOIL, Aemon the Dragonknight-Queen Nerys-King Aegon love triangle edition: The same way Jaime took the white to be close to Cersei, I wonder if warg-crazed and/or love-crazed S1/AGOT Sandor Clegane didn’t take the white to keep close to Sansa. KG is one degree of separation from king’s betrothed. He was pretty much already attached to Joff, but maybe the role of KG elevated him and gave him a couple of more advantages he could use in her service?)