#A SUPERSTITIOUS AND COWARDLY LOT - ROGUES

[gotham-crusader]

TAG DUMP 2/3

MONSTER IN THE NIGHT - VISAGE BLACK AND WHITE WORLD - AESTHETICS I’M STILL HERE - MUSINGS HOW I CAME TO BE - HEADCANONS ALL WHO FOLLOW YOU - FAMILY NO PLACE FOR A HERO - GOTHAM MARRED BY VIOLENCE - SKILLS TECH NOIR - GADGET LEGACY OF GOOD - JUSTICE LEAGUE A SUPERSTITIOUS AND COWARDLY LOT - ROGUES ROADS LESS TRAVELED - ELSEWORLDS

[puppetmaster13u]

For any of your cryptid batfam AUs. We know Batman thinks criminals are superstitious and cowardly. So how superstitious should most Gothamites be? What are some of the superstitions and things they do because of that? And what random BS do the Bat kids do to actively encourage the superstitions because they think it’s funny?

Vibrates in headcanons.

Okay, so, this is less just the criminals of Gotham- a lot of goons are just trying to put food on the table after all- and more of, Gothamites in general. Like they have good reason to be superstitious.

Like everyone already knows about the Court of Owls, if nothing else then from the Rhyme they use to get children to behave. But Gotham? Is Weird with a capital W even in canon. There are literal streets that disappear and only reappear on certain days, areas where on specific days gravity just doesn't work right, several portals to hell have been opened just in Arkham alone, and there's enough curses and cults to smother any other place.

Funnily enough I am actually currently working on a story that focuses a bit more on the superstitions of Gotham lol. Like a lot of this stuff? Not shit you're going to see in the more tourist-esque spots, but those are death traps already.

Now a lot of the habits and myths of Gotham start out as a thing about Survival. It started less with things about the Bats and more about the Rogues and how to survive.

Tiny plant boxes meticulously cared for, after one noticed how plants react when Ivy is around. They line the windows of almost every home despite the smog, and some even pray through them for their Mother to not attack today.

Small scarecrow dolls, made of grass balls and cloth hang from overhangs on roofs with rope like a hangman, a charm in hopes that the one walking the streets will leave them alone. It ends with some claiming that if you rip the head from the body of cloth, the Scarecrow will come for you.

Small candles and lanterns begin to appear on the windowsills of children, their own homemade batsignals. Some say if you're very good, gifts will appear beside it, while others claim that if you're very bad, the Signal will appear and take you away.

Tiny shrines appear on rooftops over the years, meticulously carved statuettes within. It started with one for the Second Robin, and some whisper about how the Red Hood emerged from it, was reborn through their prayers and gifts. Now there are more, offerings ranging from snacks to child's drawings to figures of clay. No one dares take things from it, the last time someone tried... well, let's just say it didn't end well.

The thing is? The Bats don't even have to do much to encourage this, and don't usually even do it on purpose.

Everyone knows what happened to the ones who tried to be a vigilante. They know of the first Batgirl, humanity slowly dripped away the longer she huddled in the Bat's shadow until she was twisting around just like it. Any child who had been making their own costumes, their parents burned it that night, terrified that the Bat would take their children to be its own next. The small child, everyone knew about him, a wee little thing with a camera clutched against his chest. They all saw him run after the Bats despite the protests, saw him run towards the Bat as bodies crumbled before it. They saw him grab its arm with such tiny hands, and the Bat, grieving, stopped. They all saw the Bat whisk him away, and once more whispered to their children to never follow the Bats into the shadows. They know of the girl cloaked in amethyst cloth, who chased after them despite the warnings and pleadings of others. She disappeared, and the faceless thing of chittering laughs that raced the Robin that appeared in her stead... Everyone knows what happens to those who offer themselves to the Bats, knowingly or not.

Robin can mimic voices, their own childish giggles and clicks echoing across the stone slipping into another's words. What is merely a game to them is horrific for anyone wandering the streets in the dark of the night. Some say that it can steal your voice permanently if it so wished.

Everyone in Gotham knows that the Bats aren't human. Oh they might mimic and pretend to be as such, or even had been at some point, but they're confident they aren't. Even if they put on an act outside of Gotham, corpse-like skin gaining hints of color like blood is actually rushing through veins, everyone knows that's what it is. An act.

The Bats themselves? Well, it keeps their civilian identity safe- and the shrines have helped them get children out of bad home lives and to safety, so they're not going to just... not encourage it.

[kitkatt0430]

Time for another Flash episode. And the jerky camera work is not off to a good start.

So Blaine is now playing mechanical engineer for Red Death and he still hasn't gotten anything out of this relationship.

"A superstitious and cowardly lot" Red Death says of criminals. As if she is not one herself.

I think Barry & Iris are getting a little too caught up in the 'avatar of the negative speed force' thing. The Speed Force has lots of speedsters and Nora 1.0 proved that more than one speedster can use the negative speed force at a time... sometimes a speedster is just... angry. (Of all the retcons, what they've done with the Negative Speed Force and the other negative Forces I like the least. The N!SF was originally just something Eobard made himself. Which was a big deal when it inspired Barry and Cisco to attempt the same thing... and foreshadowed that the ASF would have bad side effects. It's now it's own living thing? That's... whatever, it never totally made sense that the N!SF survived the Eobard being erased from the timeline anyway.)

Oh, hey, Jenna gets to be a person again. The show has remembered this child exists again!!! Now if only her parents would do the sensible thing and move the hell out of Central City. I would hope that they'd sell the house to Barry and Iris, though. It's a gorgeous house, been in the family for two generations now. It should stay in the family.

I'm proud of the Central City citizens who realize red lightning is bad news and got the heck out of dodge when Red Death showed up. Could have done with less screaming, but they have learned to book it when a bad speedster shows up.

Oh, it's Roy Bivolo! Haven't seen him since S1. I'm so glad to see him. And he's learned new tricks and emotions to mess with. Also... he kinda deserves a little vengeance after the pipeline thing in S1.

Blaine unsurprisingly protects Barry's identity from the last people in the city who don't know the Flash's real name. Because of course Blaine has to be wrestling with his conscience and it's leading up to some heel face turn that I honestly don't care about because at this point he's used up his chances to be even remotely sympathetic.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Khione continues to be nature girl and inspires Allegra and Chester to get in touch with their new Rogue friends using a metaphor about static electricity. But if talking in metaphor is getting a bit annoying at this point since that's all she does. If that's her super power - making nature based metaphors - then it kinda sucks. I'm honestly not seeing why the show writers killed Caitlin off if this is the best they can manage with Khione.

But hey, looks like we're getting Hartley, Goldface, and Jaco back after all. Fun times. :D

Red Death torturing Barry for the funsies. While Barry makes speeches. Fun times.

Oooh, is that the real Ryan? Does this mean that I was right about the multiverse finally getting reintroduced??? Then again she does have the skunk stripe too, but maybe they just decided her hair is styled that way now. Either way, Ryan and Iris getting a chance to bond is something I've been wanting since it was announced Ryan would be in this season.

Still... something about Ryan seems off... and that skunk stripe. I don't think I trust this is the real Ryan.

So I feel like they wouldn't have needed the Rogues if they still had Cisco. Chester just... is not as good under pressure as Cisco was. Though Hartley showing up and being all smug about his toys and then... his speedster tracker doesn't work. *snicker*

Red Death showing off fancy new tricks is cool and convinces me that the Ryan with Iris isn't the real Ryan. But I'm also pretty sure Iris suspects something is off too, so hopefully I'll be proven right about that.

So Red Death 'built their own speed' so they made an ASF of their own. Which is what the Negative SF started off as...

Woohoo, Iris suspects Ryan's a fake. Go Iris. She's just so awesome.

'Another timeline'. Let's just call it the multiverse mmkay?

Red Death stopping thought crime and presumably killing criminals instead of catching them. No wonder the alt timeline's Flash fought her. There are lines she shouldn't have crossed and it sounds like she crossed them. And... if she needs this Iris to talk to that other Barry... did Ryan kill her 'best friend'?

Barry trying to talk Blaine around. *flat tone* yay. Who would have seen that coming?

Using Frost as an example of Barry giving second chances isn't a bad decision, but oh wow was the situation so different there. Frost was struggling to find herself as a person, afraid of Caitlin who was suppressing her, and everyone assumed she'd be evil before she ever had a chance to make her own choices. It was less 'giving her a second chance' and more 'giving her that first chance they'd failed to the first time around'.

I know. I'm a Frost apologist. *sigh* But seriously, I see people in the fandom getting upset over Frost never apologizing herself and being easily forgiven but first? Practically no one apologizes on this show and everyone's easily forgiven. And second? No one gave Frost a chance to be anything but evil in S3. None of them. Especially Caitlin. Even Barry 'reaching out' in the pipeline was him urging Caitlin to take control and Caitlin to be a good person.

Anyway, back to Iris and Ryan and the more interesting conversation... I gosh, I was right. Red Death killed her reality's Iris West. Whoops. Maybe you shouldn't have been trying to kill your besty's husband and you wouldn't have killed Iris instead, Ryan.

Iris pointing out the flaws in Ryan's story is great. But sadly interrupted by the storm knocking out my power for several seconds. So time to save a draft and come back later.

Okay, storm has calmed down and the worst has moved past my area. I still have power so I'm gonna finish this episode.

Back to Iris calling out Ryan for lying and twisting the truth.

So the Red Death's armor coming to her is a neat sequence but a little... uncanny valley at points?

I do like Cecile's telekinesis. But Joe is right about them needing to move.

And Hartley's machine works! Also Blaine double crosses Red Death and proves to be a better no-power fighter than Barry is. I will give him that much.

Oh! did Allegra pull Nash's teleporter out of storage?

I was hoping for some more Rogues vs Rogues fighting. But i guess next episode? I wonder if Blaine's actually dead. I mean. I'd like to be done with his character but it's a comic based super hero show and i don't believe a character is dead if I don't see the dead body. And even then, how many times has Sara been dead?

And what was the point of the Joe wanting to move plot if there's no pay off? Because him deciding to stay is just a return to form after not really having anything of substance happen. Like, seriously, what was the point of that subplot?

And Red Death declares war in the end. But I gotta wonder. What's been happening with the real Ryan? Has she been dumped into the Red Death's reality? (timeline? Whatever.) I really hope we get to see her next episode to know she's okay.

Okays, so final thoughts on the episode was, not nearly enough time with the Team Flash ally Rogues, way too much time spent on subplots that go nowhere (Joe wanting to move, the Allegra/Chester nonsense, Khione rambling about nature), and I guess parallel timelines are the new multiverse?

I do think that Khione is correct in real world terms about every life being precious and it being important to try to save lives when you can. But I also think Hartley probably made the right call getting them the hell out of Dodge with Nash's teleporter. Even at Blaine's expense. They do Blaine no good if they die too. No one deserves to die a terrible death, but needlessly sacrificing yourself to save someone else's life when doing so won't actually achieve that goal? No one can save everyone. Not even heroes.

Sometimes Barry has to be dragged, kicking and screaming, away from the brink of martyring himself. This was probably one of those times.

It seems like, as has become a hallmark of the show in recent seasons, the pacing of the various plots is all over the place in a very bad way. Dragging out plots that should have been short or cut altogether and then rushing the main plot as a result. So I'm sure there will be more of that in the next episode.

Speaking of which, based on the trailer it looks like Red Death will be taking a play out of Zoom's book next and going after the CCPD. And of course Barry's speed has been drained - again. Bringing in Red Death was a really cool idea for the final season but... once again... the Flash seems to be suffering from poor execution of good ideas. It's not as bad as last season - at least Red Death has a single plan and motivation instead of three conflicting plans that make zero sense when executed simultaneously - but that just puts it on par with season 7 and I wasn't exactly impressed with that one.

If the team ups with Hartley end with the Red Death: Rogue War plot then I honestly don't know if I'll be sticking it out. I mean... I am interested in the return of Jay Garrick and Bloodwork coming back for round two - since Bloodwork's time as the show's main villain was probably the last time the show had good pacing and had subplots that were relevant to the main plot and interconnected everything really neatly - but there's a difference between interested and excited and I'm just... never excited about the show anymore.

[baggebythesea]

Batman - fallen lord of Gotham

I really like the arthurian fisher king lens of viewing Batman, because it puts the characters - and Gotham - in such an interesting relationship to each other.

The king and queen of the realm worked hard during dark times to ease the pain of the people and raised the true heir of the throne to become a fair and just ruler, just like them. But, alas, tragedy struck and the young prince set out to forge his destiny not as the shining king or even White Knight destiny would have him as, but rather as a Dark Knight, tainted by the evil of the land and unable to lift his realm from it.

The True King and Queen: Thomas and Martha Wayne - deceased

The True Heir: Bruce Wayne, refusing the mantel. To all apperances an Unfit Ruler

The Dark Knight: Batman. (Stories that focus on the Fisher King aspect, i.e. that the state of Gotham is a reflection of the turmoil in his soul, likes to focus on the Dark part).

The Squires: the Robins and the extended bat family

Side note: There are basically four sources of power in this kind of stories:

Legitimate Power ('only the true king can draw the sword from the stone'). This is the source of Bruce's power, and by extension the power lended to those loyal to him, like Alfred, the Robins and Jim. There is also a certain amount of hirearchy here, where even bad rulers of various levels have power just by being rulers such as the Court of Owls and sometimes the Penguin.

Ilegitimate Power. (like the pagan magic of Merlin or Morgan, contrasted with the Christian power of God-chosen king Arthur). Forrest Witch Poision Ivy as well as chemically altered super villains like Bane, Clayface and (in some stories) the Joker and Mr Freeze. Also 'real' magic users, ghosts, aliens and extradimensional imps.

Virtue Power (like in most medieval saint stories). Ordinary people who by the power of doing the right thing gets rewarded with power over the forces of evil (or at least gets to be martured in a cool way). This is the origin story of pretty much every Robin, as well as people like Leslie Thompkins and Vicki Vale.

Personal Badassery ('the strongest man in seven villages'). This is where we find people like the Riddler, Catwoman, the Joker, Harley Quinn and most of Batman's Rogues Gallery. Although these people can be formidable, the story format still places this power source as lesser than the other three.

With no fitting ruler on the throne, the realm falls into disarray. The Corrupt Nobles (Court of Owls) scheme in the shadows while The Barons - mobsters and gangs (including the police) - bicker for power (Note that Jim Gordon is here framed as a Good Baron, a feudal 'middle manager' that's still loyal to the True Ruler, even in his current form). The rabble - the superstitious, cowardly lot - fight against each other and their betters. Wandering knights create order or chaos wherever they go, each after their own creed.

There is a shining light in the darkness, though. A White Knight in the form of Harvey Dent who promises to stem the tide of darkness. Alas, evil corrupts him - without the power of his virtue he is left as just another squabbling baron.

And just as we have a 'false' white knight we have false rulers. People who would claim the mantle of the true king and queen or ursurp the power of the prince. Hugo Strange fits here, and the Penguin in some stories (the Tim Burton movie, for example).

An interesting example is Ra's al Ghul who qualifies as a Legitimate Lord in his own right - a Dark King. That puts Talia on equal footing with Bruce - a Dark Heir - but unlike him she has not deviated from her path. She offers him escape from his twisted fate, a restoration to his lost nobility, but his creed and obligation keeps him in his sundered kingdom.

This reading works best on Gotham/Batman-centric stories, where the larger DC universe is kept in the background. But I suppose Wonderwoman and Superman could be seen as fellow lords as well.

Oh, and the Joker? He's the fool, of course. In the Shakespearean meaning. The absurd mirror. The one who never leaves the rulers side. The one who speaks truths that no other dare to utter. The one who the ruler can never, ever silence or escape.

[midknight-hour]

pretty much every gotham rogues redesign/line-up i’ve seen from artists fucks severely. if you’re ever nervous that it’s been done to death- it hasn’t. you cannot go wrong with these guys.

[helloicametotalk]

|| Tag drop.

[thesphynxheir]

//don’t mind me, I’m just a post for organizing tags-

[murphypaw]

so okay some PotH Clans basics, definitely not all the traits and customs but just some ones I wanted to talk about! if you wanna ask anything you can send an ask you don't have to reblog this infodump 😂

CreekClan

Uses mud and smashed berries for ceremonial purposes.

Some cats will just paint themselves for an extra bit of luck.

They use shells, stones, and mud more for their religious practices than herbs.

They do fish, but rely more on voles and frogs for food. Fish are more of a treat.

Superstitious cats believe that they have webbed toes.

They believe that prey are cats who were evil in their cat life and therefore atoning in this life by feeding the Clans.

They are very superstitious about overeating, believing it is the bad souls infecting you in life. so they never hunt more than can feed the Clan, leftover food is unacceptable.

CreekClan cats believe black and chocolate tabbies were particularly good cats in their last life.

They believe in spirits and souls, spirits being more akin to ghosts and monsters while souls are the essence of a cat that is reincarnated. a cat who isn't reincarnated becomes a spirit. [GladeClan shares this belief, but they learned it from CreekClan during Oakbelly's time. it's considered laughable by HillClan, RavineClan, and ThicketClan, while MarshClan thinks they no longer exist].

CreekClan cats are often gifted storytellers and very social, it's odd to meet a CreekClan cat who you can't joke around with. ThicketClan has a very tense relationship with them in comparison to other Clans.

GladeClan

Pacifists, believes killing a cat even in self defense rots away at your soul.

Scavengers, hunting is not wrong but is more of a last resort.

Extremely religious and superstitious, they have intensive atonement rituals and more medicine cats than most Clans.

They nearly were wiped out during a war and were rebuilt with mostly loners by a warrior named Oakbelly.

Oakbelly and her medicine cat, Fawnfur, made the rules about pacifism and scavenging.

Fawnfur also began a tradition of burying cats near important plants to fertilize them.

There is a large oak tree at the head of the camp that is said to be Oakbelly's spirit, as she gave up her reincarnation cycle in order to continue watching over her clanmates.

Cats will pray by the oak tree, eat and bury their bones, even just tell her spirit about their day. she is still included as part of the Clan. No cat will name a kit Oakkit because Oakbelly is still considered to be with them.

Medicine cats are always consulted by leaders and often cats will go to a medicine cat before their leader with issues they are having.

GladeClan cats use herb bundles as part of rituals and have a morning and evening prayer session, though it's not uncommon to see them gathering for prayers between patrols.

HillClan

Second most religious Clan.

Has two "shifts" of warriors, day and night, depending on pelt color. They have less tree coverage so their darker colored cats hunt/patrol at night to avoid them overheating.

Two set meal times, called Morning Meal and Evening Meal. Morning Meal is before dawn and Evening Meal is before dusk. This allows cats to social more with the other shift.

Cats on border patrols are allowed to catch and eat one meal while on patrol, cats on hunting patrols are allowed to eat one meal between patrols.

Deputies are considered leader apprentices and are treated no different than other warriors. they aren't necessarily "head warrior" like most other Clans they are just a warrior with exemption from certain duties due to their training.

They rarely use special suffixes, it's uncommon to see a lot of cats who don't have -pelt, -fur, -stripe, or -spots as a suffix. typically no more than five in the Clan as they believe you have to be truly exceptional to earn those names.

They have less medicine cats than most Clans, with the exception of RavineClan, due to it being considered a sacred role. They believe the other Clans have devalued the role by adding more medicine cats to their ranks.

HillClan cats are superstitious about in-Clan matin, so they have lifemates (romantic partners for life) and if they want kits they seek loners or rogues to be sires. most other Clans simply require the leader's approval for in-Clan mating but HillClan nearly forbids it.

they enforce the elders' role more strictly than other Clans, having a history of serious outbreaks of kit madness (mothers becoming so stressed they eat their kittens) every time a leader is lax on this rule. the mothers are never blamed, the leader is blamed for not enforcing the law that elders raise and prepare kits for their apprenticeship.

they believe Sunbelly (the sun god) watches over day warriors and day warriors will often pray to him for good fortune. alternatively Moonclaw (the moon goddess) is believed to watch over the night shift warriors. cats will pray to the opposite deity at the end of their shift to give the opposite shift good fortune.

MarshClan

Legitimate battle cats, they train even as warriors with each other to keep their fighting skills sharp.

Cats will duel to settle disputes, though killing is not permitted.

they don't use the -claw or -fang suffix, believing every cat should excel in combat, so other skills are always more noteworthy.

they take their dead to the edge of their territory, near the mountains, for the buzzards and other scavengers to eat. they return to collect the bones and add them to the wall/piles surrounding the camp.

they don't believe in waste, they crack open prey bones in order to eat the marrow and use the prey bones to line their borders and important places (like their training areas).

they fight for sport in the training areas, mediated by the medicine cats. they bless the matches and even let kits come to watch. cats volunteer and medicine cats choose combatants.

cats with no scars are considered shameful after they've earned their warrior names because it means they've only had "easy" fights. they've never been truly challenged and it's considered cowardly to not seek an opponent of equal skill.

MarshClan cats use mud for camouflage rather than ceremony.

most rituals are done with bones and fur and feathers (skin or scales in the case of frogs and lizards). medicine cats stockpile bits of prey for such things and many cats will use prey bits to outline their nests for good luck.

cats have to recite a battle prayer and win a fight against their mentor and one peer in order to earn their warrior name. typically they get a lasting scar from this.

RavineClan

Honestly the least religious Clan, it's common for them to be atheists or agnostics. they typically only have a medicine cat and apprentice.

They try to keep to themselves and are the most welcoming to outsiders. many exiled cats (Clan or rogue) will seek refuge among them.

They typically have very dark fur and dull-colored eyes, finding Clans like CreekClan (who have the widest variety of colors) to be impractical.

Rather than having a warriors den and such, cats dig dens to live with their families around a clearing that is considered the "camp."

When the warriors go for patrols, their kits are in the care of an elder (typically the kit's grandparent).

Typically cats will hunt for their family and any elders who do not have a family to hunt for them.

During the day the elders bring the kits to the actual camp clearing to teach them history and give them space to play.

They are very strict on family members training apprentices and very harsh on nepotism. Leaders aren't allowed to choose family members for deputy.

They don't really practice the silent vigil, instead having the new named warrior(s) simply patrol the border over night without the silence requirement. they then hunt at dawn and bring the prey to their leader as proof that they are capable.

They are very secretive about their lax rules, thinking the other more zealous Clans would run them out of the forest. Apprentices aren't allowed to go to Gatherings because of this.

ThicketClan

These cats have little to no sense of humor and don't value social skills, many have eternally hoarse voices from lack of use.

They're very large physically compared to other Clans. Despite this, they're scarily quiet and slow moving.

ThicketClan cats are excessively paranoid and mistrust just about everycat they meet, especially those outside their Clan. they are raised to fear and expect the worst of others.

They train for at least an hour every morning regardless of rank in fighting skills, unlike MarshClan it's not for pride and custom it is simply for fear and preparation.

They believe that SkyClan doesn't watch over them as the other Clans due to the dense overgrowth in their territory, so they work extra hard to pray and sacrifice animals and perform rituals so that SkyClan will not forget them or show them less favor the other Clans.

Discipline and self-control are major virtues in the Clan.

They will travel in groups all the way to the city ruins to mate and will not leave each other alone with the rogue toms. typically a few Clan toms are on the trip to keep a count and watch out for any kind of aggression.

They do not allow outsiders to join their Clan, for any reason.

They move camps every spring, during autumn cats begin preparing the new camp and they begin tearing down the old camp towards the end of winter.

Rather than exiling cats, they execute them. There are no exceptions to this rule.

[hellzyeahthewebwieldingavenger]

The Tom DeFalco Interview To help mark this special installment, we took some time to speak with another key player in the storyline, former Marvel Editor in Chief and current writer of the wonderful SPIDER-GIRL, Tom DeFalco. Andrew: How much convincing did it take for you to approve the clone saga, and why? Tom : It took quite a lot of convincing for me to approve the clone saga. Danny Fingeroth was the Spider-editor at the time, and had arranged for all the Spider-creators to come into town for a meeting. He showed up at my office pretty late one night, and proposed the clone saga to me. My first reaction was to reject it, but he convinced me to think about it overnight and come to the next day's meeting. I showed up and faced the staff - all the writers, artists and editors - and they all had passionate reasons why we should do this story. I had never seen such passion in all my years in the business. If the creators were so passionate, I figured the readers would be, too. Seems I was right! Andrew: What was the reasoning behind such a drastic decision? Tom: I guess I finally okayed it because I was convinced the crew could produce one heck of a dramatic story. Andrew: If the clone saga was in response to DC's Superman and Batman "events" were there any other possible Spider-Man "events" considered before deciding to move on the clone saga? Tom: I'm sure the "event" mentality had a hand in my decision to okay the clone saga, but the only other events that anyone were discussed in the Spider-office was A) Killing or divorcing Mary Jane, or B) Killing Aunt May.

Andrew: Was there any consideration about just bringing Ben Reilly back to introduce a new character and rogues gallery, or was the sole purpose to shock the readers by making him the real deal? Tom: Here's a secret - when I finally okayed the clone saga, I told Danny Fingeroth to build a backdoor into it. I said that I wanted to be able to bring Peter back as the real deal. But I didn't tell Danny everything. I believe that both comic book creators and comic book fans are a cowardly and superstitious lot. While the fans claim they want change, they tend to react negatively to it. So do most creators! With this in mind, I later updated Mark Gruenwald on our plans for the clone saga. Mark was my second-in-command, and the logical guy to succeed me. He and I agreed that Peter was the real guy, but that we would let the Spider-team try to convince the readers otherwise. If the Spider-creators succeeded, they would love the idea of the old switcheroo. If they failed, they'd be soooo harry that they had a backdoor. Either way, the readers were guaranteed a great story with a lot of unexpected twists. Andrew: How were you going to resolve the Clone Saga initially? Tom: Our plan was to structure the clone saga like a three-act play. Act One would climax at or around Amazing #400 - when we revealed that Pete was the clone and Ben was the real guy. Act Two would last around three months and follow Ben's adventures. In Act Three, Peter would triumphantly return as the one, true Spider-Man. Mark and I were hoping the Spider-crew could make Ben a viable character during his turn in the spotlight, and we planned to star Ben in his own monthly title after Peter returned. It was kind of like what I had already done with Thor and Thunderstrike - two very different titles based on a single concept. Of course, our plan went into the trash the day I got fired, and Mark wasn't picked to succeed me.

See this right here?

This is proof that the Clone Saga was not in fact:

a) Created specifically  to make Spider-Man single again, nor 

b) Intended to be permanent initially

That’s the EIC of Marvel at the time making plans to have the Clone Saga be reversed ahead of time but just not telling the writers about that to make the story more dramatic. Extenuating factors happened though and things changed.

This is actually why you wound up with Ben Reilly confirmed as the real Spider-Man and yet he was a blonde guy in a coffee shop not named Peter Parker.

That was done because the new regime was committing to the story as the writers had pitched it not as DeFalco had privately intended it to pan out. Problem was...it didn’t work. Because it couldn’t work. Because OF COURSE you couldn’t believably transition Ben Reilly into brown haired Peter Parker at the Bugle. The story didn’t have the ground work to make that happen because it was NEVER planned to actually commit to that direction.

[nanenna]

The Road to Bremen

Summary: A group of animals are headed to Bremen, the expected hijinks ensue. Done for @headphonescinderella, who asked for the Bremen Town Musicians featuring the Bureau and Haru.

Rating: G

Words: 2.1k

The map crackled as Baron unfolded it, his joints creaking as he struggled to spread it out. Once the living doll managed to get the map laid out he walked around the edge with a gloved hand at his furry chin. “Ah,” he exclaimed as he pointed to a spot with his cane, “there it is.”

The round white cat with a single brown splotch on his ear and small brown cat whose muzzle had faded to gray sitting curled up next to the map simply blinked at it. “Okay, and what good does the paper do us?” the brown cat asked.

“You see, Miss Haru,” Baron replied, “this map tells us exactly where Bremen is.”

“But that doesn’t do us any good if we don’t know where we are,” Muta replied grumpily.

“Toto,” Baron called, addressing the magpie sitting in the branches above the group’s head, “come help us, you know where we are.”

“I haven’t the foggiest,” Toto replied without bothering to move from his spot.

“What do you mean? You always know where we are!”

“I have a general idea, I know we’re somewhere in Germany at least.”

Baron rested his forehead in his hand in pure frustration as Muta tittered behind his paw. “Wait,” Baron cried as he looked back up at Toto, “you can carry me above the trees and we can spot any landmarks that way. Just let me fold this map into something more manageable...”

“I’m not carrying you while you’re holding that unwieldy thing,” Toto said with an eye roll as he fluttered to the ground. “You’ll have no grip and fall.”

“I trust you,” Baron replied as he continued trying to fold the map into something smaller while still showing Bremen.

“Why are we going to Bremen anyway?” Muta asked grumpily as the pair continued to argue over the map’s usefulness.

“Because when I was a kitten some musicians passed by my home and told everyone they were going to Bremen to retire, apparently it’s the place to retire to. It’s supposed to be just down the road, I don’t see the need to bother with a map.”

“Baron’s just a show off,” Muta grumbled. “Toto is too, though he’s not so bad as Baron.”

“Oh, and I thought you and Toto didn’t get along,” Haru said with a sly grin.

“We get along just fine, even if he is a bird brain.”

“I heard that!” Toto called. “And for the last time, Baron, if you can’t hold it in one hand I’m not letting you fly with that map.”

“Fine, we’ll just leave it behind then!” With that Baron dropped the map on the ground and climbed onto Toto’s back, the pair then took off and were quickly out of sight above the trees’ branches.

“I know what they’re going to see up there,” Haru said with a sigh. “Down the road a ways they’ll see a town, and when we arrive there the locals will tell us it’s Bremen.”

“Yeah, but sometimes you just gotta let Baron do things the hard way. Besides, it’ll give them a chance to flirt without us having to watch.”

“They are rather adorable together,” Haru conceded. The two cats lapsed into silence as they waited for the couple to return to Earth.

“I have a strict two cat limit,” Toto’s voice was heard saying before the pair came into sight.

“I’m sure Miss Haru isn’t very heavy, it won’t take much more effort to carry her as well.”

“Muta’s effort enough! He may look like a marshmallow, but I assure he is not light as one.”

“I heard that!” Muta called as the pair fluttered to the ground before them.

“At least we know you’re not deaf,” Toto replied.

“What did you see?” Haru asked Baron before the argument could get worse.

“A town just up the road,” Baron said while pointing. “It looks to be about two days travel away, but we would be able to reach it fairly easily if Toto would just fly us all there.”

Haru side eyes Muta, but decided against saying anything. “Well thank you for the help, I’ll just be on my way then.”

“Oh no, I insist we accompany you to Bremen.”

“You do?”

“We are?”

“We were also headed in that direction, it only makes sense to stay in a group.”

“And there’s only so far I can carry pudding brains here in a single day,” Toto added as he hid a smirk behind a wing.

“Better a pudding brain than a bird brain!”

“At least the trip will be far more interesting with those two along,” Haru said as she and Baron walked away from the bickering duo.

The sun was dipping below the horizon when the group decided to stop for the evening. Muta and Haru were loafed up next to each other, nestled in a large tree’s roots while Baron had climbed onto Toto’s back so they could rest in the branches of said tree. Toto had flown right up to the top of the tree when he spotted something in the distance.

“Baron, do you see that light over there?” He pointed with a wing as he talked over his shoulder.

“Yes, I see it, it looks to be nearby. Do you suppose it’s a fire or perhaps a house?”

“Most likely, let’s go tell the others.”

“What do I care about some human hanging out nearby?” Muta grumbled once Toto and Baron woke him.

“They might have some dinner,” Haru said right before giving a great yawn.

“A light usually does mean dinner of some sort,” Baron agreed.

“Oh fine, let’s go find this light of yours.”

“Of course the mention of dinner is what motivates him,” Toto cackled from behind a wing.

“Just ‘cause you don’t need to eat like a normal person, you big chicken!”

“So which way is this mysterious light?” Haru asked rather loudly.

“That way,” Baron replied while pointing further into the woods.

“Thank you,” Haru said before heading in that direction. The others quickly followed after her.

“You’re learning quite fast,” Baron murmured as they walked between the trees.

“With those two it’s not hard. Oh, is that a path?” Sure enough, the group had stumbled upon a small path that lead right up to the gate of a small cottage with warm, buttery light shining from its windows. The gate was ajar and the garden between the gate and front door looked to be trampled. The front door itself was ajar, a sliver of light shining through.

“This looks like trouble,” Baron said as they slowly approached the door.

“With us it’s always trouble,” Muta grumbled quietly. All the same, the fat cat wedged himself into the crack and gently pushed the door open far enough to peek inside along with Haru, Baron, and Toto perched on top.

Inside were two elderly women with snow white hair and snow white lace shawls draped over their shoulders, the one in a lavender was huddled behind the one in red, who was holding an umbrella as if she wished to use it to smack the head of the rather disreputable looking man who was sneering at her while more ragged looking men were stomping through the quaint little cottage.

“This looks bad,” Haru murmured with a frown.

“Toto?” Baron asked as he looked up at the magpie.

“If we burst in loudly we can take them by surprise.”

“Right,” Baron said with a determined nod. “On three: one, two, three!”

The quartet burst into the room, all yowling or squawking as loudly as they could. Surprisingly, that was all it took. The robbers seemed to think an entire army had just busted in on them and they all hightailed it out of there, one even going so far as to jump out of the (fortunately open) window.

“Well that was… easier than expected,” Muta said once the cottage was cleared out.

“I’ve heard tell that criminals are a superstitious cowardly lot, but I never thought it was to that extent,” Baron said as he looked around the room. Once his eye caught on the two women they had just rescued, he removed his hat and bowed to them. “Good evening, we hope you were not harmed.”

“My, how polite,” the granny in lavender said before she gave a pretty curtsy to Baron. “My name is Sephie, and this is Louise. We’re quite grateful for your help.”

“My name is Baron Humbert von Gikkingen, and these are my companions: Toto, Haru, and Muta.” Each person nodded while being introduced, save Muta who only grunted.

“You all must be very hungry,” Sephie said once introductions were over. “Would you like a bite to eat?”

“Would I ever,” Muta said eagerly before running into the kitchen with Sephie following behind.

Louise, in the meanwhile, was looking around the trashed cottage. “Those rogues certainly did a number on our home.”

“We would be happy to help you clean up, if you like,” Baron offered.

“Thank you,” Louise said with a smile.

After the cottage had been put back in order and everyone who ate had had their fill, the cottage owners had gone to their bed and the Bureau had settled down in various spot around the main room. Muta had settled down in front of the still warm oven, Haru had hopped onto a chair with a soft cushion, Toto had settled on the mantelpiece and changed to stone, and Baron had cuddled up next to Toto and relaxed like a puppet whose strings had just been cut. The lights were out and all was quiet in the quaint little cottage. Thus the sound of the door being jimmied open was louder than a gunshot and woke every occupant of the cottage.

Every eye was trained on the intruders as they snuck into the main room and spread out to start rifling around. Two walked into the kitchen carrying burlap sacks, they were the first to find the cottage’s defenders hadn’t left yet. They screamed and ran from the kitchen, Muta hot on their tails.

The rest looked up when the commotion started, Haru took that as her cue to leap at the nearest intruder with her claws out while Toto, still a statue, tipped over and fell on top of the intruder who had been looking over the knick knacks kept on the mantle.

“Attack!” Baron roared as he stood to his full height and pointed his cane at the intruders.

Louise burst from the bedroom with a rolling pin in hand, apparently she had decided to take some protection with her to bed.

With much tripping, screaming, scratching, and a few bonks upside the head, the intruders decided this cottage wasn’t worth it. “Retreat!” one of them yelled, the others all obeyed and scrambled out the door.

“It seems they didn’t learn their lesson the first time,” Toto commented once the commotion had died down.

“They certainly learned it this time,” Louise said confidently as she hoisted her rolling pin over her shoulder.

“Are they gone?” asked Sephie as she clutched a wooden spoon and peaked out into the main room.

“Yes, hopefully for good this time,” Louise answered. “Perhaps we should invest in locks for the doors next time we’re in town.”

“I don’t see why we should when we have such excellent guardians,” Sephie said as she picked up Haru, who had been winding about her ankles.

“You’d really let me stay?” Haru asked as Sephie gently scratched between her ears.

“Of course, you’ve more than earned it after the night we’ve had.”

“Eh,” Muta said with a shrug, “the food here’s pretty good. Might be worth sticking around for a little while.”

“But, what about Bremen?” Baron asked in confusion.

Haru gave her own shrug, “Whether I retire here or to Bremen doesn’t make much difference, and I like it here.”

“I wouldn’t mind taking a few years off from traveling around myself,” Toto added. “You might like it too for a change of pace, all you’ve done since you were born is wander around with us. Think of it as a vacation.”

“It would certainly be a new experience,” Baron mused. “And if you’ll have us, here is as good as anywhere for a vacation.”

“Good, now that that’s settled I’d like to go back to bed.” Louise said as she turned towards the bedroom. “A lady needs her beauty sleep, after all.”

And so Sephie and Louise, who were already seen as a pair of crazy old ladies for living out in the woods, became the local crazy cat ladies. And they all lived happily ever after, the end.

Although the two can be read separately, this is meant to be a sequel to Traveling Friends. Rest assured, the next time Toto and Baron go visit Yuki and Lune they take Sephie and Louise with them.

This was a lot of fun to write, and it’s nice to do a fairy tale that doesn’t have a marriage at the end. Not that I didn’t sneak in a couple ships anyway, there’s something fun about having an old married couple or two in a story.

[gothamcrusaderarch]

New Tags 2/3: Inspirations

Monster in the Night ||VISAGE|| A Black and White World ||AESTHETICS|| Promise Me The World Can be Saved ||MUSINGS|| Who I Am and How I Came to Be ||HEADCANONS|| All Who Follow You ||FAMILY|| No Place for No Hero ||GOTHAM CITY|| Marred by Violence ||SKILLS|| Tech Noir ||GADGETS|| Flesh and Blood Among Gods ||JUSTICE LEAGUE||  A Superstitious and Cowardly Lot ||ROGUES|| Roads Less Traveled ||ELSEWORLDS|| Twisted Reflections ||DARK MULTIVERSE||

[aion-rsa]

Best Of The Worst: The 16 Baddest Supervillain Teams

Thanks to everyone’s favorite pointy-eared Dark Knight Detective, we all know that criminals are “a superstitious, cowardly lot.” That goes double for super-criminals. Perhaps that’s why the bad guys tend to congregate in groups, despite a distinct inability to set their egos aside long enough to function as actual teams. With the advent of films like “Suicide Squad” and the formation of a new live-action Legion of Doom in the CW’s “Legends of Tomorrow,” supervillains are more popular than ever.

RELATED: Evil Geniuses: The 15 Smartest Supervillains In Comics

Considering this newfound mainstream popularity, we thought it was the perfect time to run down a list of the most notorious villain crews around. These malcontents and ne’er-do-wells are the baddest of the bad, the most evil bastards in all of comicdom. Singly, they may be easy pickings… but together? Together, they’re the most vile, dangerous beings in all of comics. We bet being bad never felt so good…

SPOILER ALERT! Spoilers ahead for numerous stories published by DC and Marvel Comics.

LEGION OF DOOM

Arguably one of the most notorious team on our list, the Legion of Doom’s evil tendrils have woven their way into mainstream popular culture thanks to its origins as the villainous foil of the animated Super Friends. Debuting in the first episode of the classic “Challenge of the Super Friends” cartoon in 1978, the group’s roster featured some of DC Comics’ greatest villains, including Lex Luthor, Captain Cold, Gorilla Grodd, Solomon Grundy, the Cheetah and Giganta. Operating out of their iconic Hall of Doom, this powerful assemblage of super-criminals was tailor-made to go toe-to-toe with the mighty Super Friends.

Although there have been many stand-ins in the comics over the years, a true Legion of Doom wasn’t seen in print until Paul Dini and Alex Ross’ critically-acclaimed “Justice.” Still, there’s no denying the impact the Legion has had on fans and creators alike, inspiring countless cultural references and lending its name to the popular wrestling tag team, the Road Warriors. Currently, the L.O.D. are making life hell for the CW’s Legends of Tomorrow, as the Reverse-Flash, Captain Cold, Damien Darhk and Malcom Merlyn pool their talents and resources in an effort to change history for their own nefarious ends.

HORSEMEN OF APOCALYPSE

Famine, War, Pestilence and Death — in one incarnation or another, the Horsemen of the ancient mutant powerhouse known as Apocalypse have plagued the X-Men and the rest of humanity for decades. Created by Louise and Walter Simonson during their seminal run on “X-Factor,” Apocalypse’s biblically-inspired henchmen are perhaps most notorious for turning a despondent Warren Worthington heel, after he was stripped of his wings by the Marauders during the classic “Fall of the Mutants” storyline. Preying upon our basest fears, the Horsemen fomented widespread catastrophic change on a global scale, while using one of the X-Men’s own against them.

Despite several iterations of the Horsemen appearing in print and on film over the years, what makes this cadre of villains so dangerously effective isn’t simply their raw power and tenacity, both of which are admittedly substantial. Rather, their true strength lies in Apocalypse’s ability to subvert and manipulate the values of his enemies. Several X-Men, including Wolverine, Colossus, Sunfire and Psylocke, have served as Horsemen, making it all the more difficult for their teammates to thwart Apocalypse’s evil machinations.

FATAL FIVE

Hailing from the 31st century, our next entry owes their formation to their arch-enemies, the Legion of the Super-Heroes, who needed their help to defeat the Sun-Eater, a super-weapon designed to consume entire galaxies. The original line-up included the cyborg Tharok, Validus, Mano, the Persuader and the Emerald Empress. After helping the Legion defeat the Sun-Eater, the Fatal Five received pardons for their past crimes. However, true to their villainous natures, they refused the amnesty and immediately set about conquering the worlds they had just helped save. Despite their small numbers, the Fatal Five are massively powerful, capable of destruction on a planetary scale and taking on the Legion’s vast numbers on numerous occasions.

As perennial adversaries of the Legion, their origins have suffered from perpetual reboots and roster changes. Although they have remained on the down-low in recent years — while DC figures out what to do with the Legion — one member is set to make a major splash post-Rebirth in “Justice League vs. Suicide Squad”. Recruited by Maxwell Lord as a member of his team of spoilers, the seemingly time-displaced Emerald Empress agrees to help the master manipulator, in exchange for helping her search for “the Legionnaire.”

LEGION OF SUPER-VILLAINS

Originally appearing as futuristic foes of Superman, recruited by Lex Luthor to fight the Man of Steel in the present, the Legion of Super-Villains’ history is just as confusing and convoluted as their heroic counterparts, the Legion of Super-Heroes. Built around a core of super-criminal analogues of the Legion’s founding members, Cosmic King, Lightning Lord and Saturn Queen fought their heroic counterparts on several occasions, surrounding themselves with a diverse mix of superhuman and alien criminals, many of whom were failed Legion candidates.

With numbers and resources that rival the Legion’s, the LOSV infamously conquered Princess Projectra’s home world Orando and moved it into an alternate dimension to act as their base of operations. The campaign was notable for the death of popular Legionnaire, Karate Kid, who was killed by LOSV leader Nemesis Kid. More recently, it was revealed during the events of Final Crisis that Superboy-Prime inspired their creation much as Superman did for the Legion. The group’s current status is unknown in the post-Rebirth DCU, but with the Emerald Empress and a woman who appears to be Saturn Girl seemingly stranded in the present, we suspect it won’t be long until both Legions return to mainstream continuity.

FRIGHTFUL FOUR

The Frightful Four trace their origins back to 1965’s classic “Fantastic Four” #36, when the Wizard, Sandman, Paste-Pot Pete and Madam Medusa joined forces to fight Marvel’s first family — this was after a history of individual losses to the FF’s youngest member, the Human Torch. Over the years, the group has appeared in numerous configurations to plague the Fantastic Four, always under the Wizard’s leadership. Past members have included some true powerhouses, including Titania, Blastaar and Hydro Man.

Although his intellect doesn’t approach Reed Richards’ level of super-genius, the Wizard and his revolving cast of super-criminals managed to leverage their intimate knowledge of their arch-nemeses on several occasions, to strike the FF where it really hurts. This is perhaps best illustrated by the recruitment of Ben Grimm’s one-time flame and former FF member, She-Thing, into their ranks. Most recently, the Frightful Four were seen helping Reed Richards defeat the Quiet Man, who wanted to stage a global invasion by the monsters of Counter-Earth to set himself up as the world’s greatest hero.

THE CABAL

Born in the aftermath of “Secret Invasion,” the Cabal was originally Norman Osborn’s response to the existence of the Illuminati, a secret alliance of the Marvel Universe’s most influential heroes. Throughout Osborn’s “Dark Reign,” Doctor Doom, Loki, Namor the Sub-Mariner (playing both sides against the middle), Emma Frost and the Hood worked behind the scenes to promote their own hidden agendas. The Cabal was doomed to fail almost from the start, with multiple side deals and secret alliances forged between several members behind Osborn’s back. After Osborn’s siege of Asgard came to its gruesome conclusion, the Cabal disbanded.

When mysterious parallel universe incursions began to threaten Marvel’s prime 616 universe, Namor recruited a new, far more dangerous and unpredictable members to the group, including the Mad Titan Thanos, Maximus the Mad and former herald of Galactus, Terrax… who is also mad. Although they were successful in destroying many worlds in a last-ditch effort to save their own, Namor eventually betrayed his Cabal after months of sustained genocide. You know, because having two guys on your team who describe themselves as “mad” wasn’t an indication that maybe this was a bad idea. Karma’s a hell of a thing, though and Namor himself was betrayed for his murderous ways by the Illuminati, who left him to perish on a dying earth.

THE HELLFIRE CLUB

Perennial foes of the X-Men, who infamously sought to recruit Jean Grey into their ranks in their first appearance in 1980’s “Uncanny X-Men” #129, the Hellfire Club’s origins reach back to 18th-century England. The secret society has counted among its numbers some of the most influential and wealthiest families in the Marvel Universe. The Worthingtons, the Starks and the Braddocks have all held positions within the organization’s numerous global branches, even if they’ve remained remarkably ignorant of its clandestine activities.

The Hellfire Club’s Inner Circle includes some of the world’s most powerful mutants and funnels its vast resources into manipulating world events in their favor. Structured along the lines of traditional chess pieces, the Inner Circle’s roster has changed over the years as incessant internecine fighting has provoked numerous changes in leadership. Notable members include Magneto, Emma Frost, the mutant vampire Selene and Sebastian Shaw, who recently regained control of the Inner Circle, after deposing 12-year-old Black King Kade Kilgore. Facing the threat of extinction thanks to the Inhuman’s poisonous Terrigen Cloud, Shaw quickly aligned the Club with Magneto’s X-Men squad, welcoming the master of magnetism and Monet St. Croix into his Inner Circle.

SINISTER SIX

Much like the Flash’s Rogues, the Sinister Six is a group of blue collar superhuman mercenaries whose primary motivation is chasing down the next big score, while attempting to stay off the radar of their shared foe, Spider-Man. Originally recruited by Doctor Octopus as a means of taking out the wall-crawler using their combined might, the first incarnation of the group also included Kraven the Hunter, the Vulture, Mysterio, Electro and Sandman. However, none of the villains wanted to defer the honor of slaying the Spider to the others, so it was agreed they would face their enemy in succession. How this constitutes working as a team is beyond us, but the plot predictably failed. And we thought Doc Ock was some kind of super-genius.

Since that inauspicious debut, there have been numerous incarnations of the team, the most memorable in recent years starring in their own ongoing series, “Superior Foes of Spider-Man.” Although they only had five members, team leader Boomerang insisted on using the Sinister Six moniker. His criminal logic, while somewhat facile, is infallible, citing that there’s no better deal than calling themselves a six-piece and only splitting the loot five ways. Maybe they should have made the Living Brain leader…

SECRET SIX

Created by Gail Simone and Dale Eaglesham, the modern villainous incarnation of the Secret Six first appeared during “Villains United” as a carefully selected group of super-criminals recruited to undermine the agenda of the recently reformed Secret Society of Super Villains. Reporting to the mysterious Mockingbird (who turned out to be Lex Luthor), the Six eventually came under the leadership of Catman, after several battles with the Society. They remained together as a band of high-priced mercenaries, with something of a revolving roster, taking on a variety of jobs that pitted them against heroes such as the Birds of Prey and Wonder Woman, but rarely saw them actually paid for their efforts.

Recent addition Bane subsequently took over leadership of the group, but only led them on one ill-fated mission to Gotham City to murder several members of the Batman Family, which ultimately ended with their incarceration. The team’s latest revival, under the leadership of the ever-popular dreamboat Catman, has them working for a new Mockingbird, who was quickly revealed to be none other than the enigmatic Riddler.

THE ROGUES

Every superhero worth their salt has a stable of worthy supervillains capable of testing their resolve and pushing the limits of their abilities. Few, though, have banded together in the same way as the Rogues, a collection of working class villains dedicated to making life hell for the Flash. Led by the criminal mastermind Captain Cold, at one time or another, the Rogues have counted among their ranks virtually every major Flash villain. Outside of terrorizing the Flash, their prime motivation is cold, hard cash. They aren’t without their morals, however, typically refusing to kill unless absolutely necessary.

It came as something of shock, then, when the Rogues became inadvertently responsible for the death of the then-newest Flash, Bart Allen. Duped by Kid Zoom into murdering Bart, the Rogues hunted down and killed the evil speedster upon escaping the prison planet Salvation. During the “Forever Evil” storyline, they stood by their moral code, refusing to murder the citizens of Central City on the orders of the Crime Syndicate. Although they have yet to make a substantial appearance post-Rebirth, they were briefly seen considering leaving Central City, after a horde of new speedsters took to the streets.

SECRET SOCIETY OF SUPER VILLAINS

Originally created as an evil counterpart to the Justice League of America by legendary writer and editor, Gerry Conway, the Secret Society of Super Villains (SSOSV) debuted in their own ongoing series in 1976. Recruited by Darkseid to act as his agents on Earth, the group turned on the evil New God, citing his past efforts to enslave the planet. The series, although short-lived, featured an eclectic group of second-string villains battling the DCU’s ultimate villain, while pursuing their own criminal endeavors.

Although there have been several incarnations over the years, including Libra’s Society during Grant Morrison’s “Final Crisis” event, it is perhaps their most recent, post-New 52 iteration that truly showcases the depths of the organization’s evil. Gathered by the mysterious Outsider as an army for Earth 3’s invading Crime Syndicate, this version of the SSOSV included virtually every supervillain in the DC Universe, as the Syndicate tried to change the world into a haven for super-criminality. Ultimately vanquished thanks to the heroic efforts of Lex Luthor and his Injustice League, the vast network of villains predictably scattered in the wake of the Crime Syndicate’s defeat.

BROTHERHOOD OF (EVIL) MUTANTS

First appearing in the classic “Uncanny X-Men” #4 as a band of mutant terrorists under the leadership of Magneto, the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants’ agenda is nothing less than securing global dominance for the mutant race. Representing the flip side of Charles Xavier’s dream of living in harmony with the rest of humanity, the Brotherhood believes the mutant race is — and always has been — at war with regular human folk. Over the course of the organization’s long history, several incarnations have emerged, each with its own agenda. The most notable of these is Magneto’s prototypical configuration, which included future Avengers Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch, and the classic line-up of the Blob, Pyro and Avalanche, under Mystique’s leadership.

In recent years, as the mutant race has come under attack from all quarters, the Brotherhood’s methods have become increasingly violent and unpredictable. Case in point: In an effort to create a new mutant utopia, Mystique’s most recent version of the Brotherhood conquered the island nation of Madripoor, using the Mutant Growth Hormone to transform the populace into a violent, hedonistic horde of over-powered miscreants. Not exactly our vision of a utopia, but what do we know? Maybe mutants dig that kind of thing?

CRIME SYNDICATE OF AMERICA

If DC’s “Forever Evil” storyline taught us anything, it’s that the Crime Syndicate of America are quite possibly the Justice League’s most feared adversaries — not counting Darkseid, of course. Created by legendary creators Gardner Fox and Mike Sekowsky way back in 1964’s “Justice League of America” #29, the CSA originally hailed from Earth 3, a parallel world where every aspect of society was reversed. Here, Superman’s villainous analogue is the evil Ultraman, while Wonder Woman and Batman are represented by the evil Superwoman and Owlman, respectively. Other members include a sadistic version of the Flash named Johnny Quick and Power Ring, Green Lantern’s nefarious, weak-kneed stand-in.

Although there have been a few different versions of the team over the years, depending on which version of DC continuity we’re talking about, it is the most recent incarnation that nearly succeeded in killing the Justice League and remaking the world in their evil image. This more bloodthirsty Syndicate employed widespread catastrophic violence to throw the world into chaos, even moving the moon into alignment with the sun to create a perpetual twilight world more conducive to Ultraman’s powers.

DARKSEID’S ELITE

Less a supervillain team and more an ultra-powerful arsenal of Fourth World WMDs at Darkseid’s disposal, the Elite are his chosen band of warriors and sycophants dedicated to his agenda of multi-versal conquest. Boasting some of the most accomplished soldiers, torturers and tacticians in DC’s multiverse, Darkseid’s Elite have waged war across multiple dimensions on their master’s behalf, most often against members of the New Gods of New Genesis and the Justice League. Counting among their numbers the animalistic Kalibak, the super-assassin Kanto, master strategist Steppenwolf and insufferable mouthpiece Glorious Godfrey, the Elite use their uniquely-suited abilities to prime targeted worlds for Darkseid’s dominion.

During the New 52 reboot, Darkseid engaged them in a war on two fronts, tasking Steppenwolf with an invasion of Earth 2 (where he managed to kill that world’s Wonder Woman, Superman and Batman), while battling the League and the Anti-Monitor himself on Prime Earth. Although both conflicts ultimately ended in Darkseid’s defeat, he is the darkest part of the cosmic balance between good and evil, and as such, is destined to return for his prophesied final battle versus his son, Orion. We can only assume his pantheon of dark gods will be on hand to pave the way.

MASTERS OF EVIL

Over the years, there have been almost as many versions of the Masters of Evil as there have been of their sworn enemies, the Avengers — and that’s saying something. The original Masters were recruited by Baron Zemo to help him exact revenge on his recently resurrected foe, Captain America, in the now-classic “Avengers” #6. Although Zemo’s influence over the group would eventually shift to other criminal masterminds, including Ultron, Egghead and most notably his son Helmut, it was daddy dearest Heinrich who got the ball rolling. Under the second Baron Zemo’s command, the Masters of Evil would arguably know their greatest success, with dozens of the Marvel Universe’s most dangerous villains storming Avengers Mansion, nearly overrunning the heroes with their sheer numbers.

Although ultimately defeated, the younger Zemo would take a more subtle approach during his next outing, assembling a versatile team of villains, who masqueraded as the heroic Thunderbolts. Later still, after a number of pretenders, including Justine Hammer and Max Fury attempted to organize new versions of the Masters, Zemo returned to once again take the reins of the team his father founded in the pages of “Avengers Undercover,” hoping to reconstitute a team worthy of his evil legacy.

SUICIDE SQUAD

Without a doubt, our final entry is the most popular crew of villains around. Thanks to the commercial success of a blockbuster movie, featuring a star-making turn for Margot Robbie as the delightfully mad Harley Quinn, you’d be hard-pressed to find someone on the planet who hasn’t heard of the Suicide Squad — and yes that includes your mom. Just ask her. A clandestine group forced into working for the United States government under the direction of tough-as-nails Amanda Waller, the Squad’s popularity has only grown since John Ostrander and Luke McDonnell reimagined the classic military unit led by Rick Flag, as comics’ supervillain version of the Dirty Dozen.

Although there has been a tendency in the past to recast villains like Captain Boomerang and Deadshot as antiheroes, it’s the team’s conflicting personal agendas and the constant threat of death on the job that keeps fans coming back for more mayhem. More than any other team on our list, the Suicide Squad taps into our fascination with the psychology of evil and how we can use it against our enemies. Fighting fire with fire may not always be the best strategy, but where the Squad is concerned, it’s definitely the most rewarding.

Don’t think these teams are all that bad? Let us know who you think is worse in the Comments!

The post Best Of The Worst: The 16 Baddest Supervillain Teams appeared first on CBR.com.

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It does not appear that that was the case. Howard Mackie explained to Matt Adler that the whole “make Spider-Man single” idea was not part of their original plan, but it WAS something that came up with they came up with the idea (first suggested by Terry Kavanagh) of introducing a clone of Spider-Man…

Andrew: Was there any consideration about just bringing Ben Reilly back to introduce a new character and rogues gallery, or was the sole purpose to shock the readers by making him the real deal?

Tom: Here’s a secret – when I finally okayed the clone saga, I told Danny Fingeroth to build a backdoor into it. I said that I wanted to be able to bring Peter back as the real deal. But I didn’t tell Danny everything. I believe that both comic book creators and comic book fans are a cowardly and superstitious lot. While the fans claim they want change, they tend to react negatively to it. So do most creators! With this in mind, I later updated Mark Gruenwald on our plans for the clone saga. Mark was my second-in-command, and the logical guy to succeed me. He and I agreed that Peter was the real guy, but that we would let the Spider-team try to convince the readers otherwise. If the Spider-creators succeeded, they would love the idea of the old switcheroo. If they failed, they’d be soooo harry that they had a backdoor. Either way, the readers were guaranteed a great story with a lot of unexpected twists.

Andrew: How were you going to resolve the Clone Saga initially?

Tom: Our plan was to structure the clone saga like a three-act play. Act One would climax at or around Amazing #400 – when we revealed that Pete was the clone and Ben was the real guy. Act Two would last around three months and follow Ben’s adventures. In Act Three, Peter would triumphantly return as the one, true Spider-Man. Mark and I were hoping the Spider-crew could make Ben a viable character during his turn in the spotlight, and we planned to star Ben in his own monthly title after Peter returned. It was kind of like what I had already done with Thor and Thunderstrike – two very different titles based on a single concept. Of course, our plan went into the trash the day I got fired, and Mark wasn’t picked to succeed me.

This is why I maintain that the Clone Saga was never intended as a way to make Spider-Man single.

It’s worth bearing in mind Kavanagh (the worst writer of the era who couldn’t write good stories with ANY character, Spider-Man or not, married or not) was the person who suggested this. DeMatteis was and still is supportive of Spider-Man being married but he was just hyped by the chance to explore a character as interesting to him as Ben Reilly.

Mackie has been ambiguous on his feelings but knowing how he disliked continuity I suspect getting a Spider-Man with only 13 years of history (Ben Reilly had he been the ‘real Spider-Man’ would’ve had a history spanning 1962-1975) seemed like a neat idea to him.

DeFalco was the other big writer and he was obviously supportive of the marriage.