#(this is one of the things finnpoe fandom is bad at...making poe the emotionally vulnerable one and make finn to counsel him)

[elvesofnoldor]

ok i came across an actually pretty good post yesterday abt emotional immaturity and manhood in tlj and how portraying grown 30 yr old man as emotional immature is problematic, and i definitely agree to a certain extent, but i couldn’t reblog or like it. First and foremost, the post kinda implies that in order for the bullshit mutiny arc in the 2nd act to resolve rationally and satisfyingly, there should be some true consequences to poe’s actions just because he shouldn’t be treated as a child, ....and it’s like....what consequences? and like, idk, like what, you would rather poe to get put on trial and executed? or has his freedom take away and get imprisoned? (not that its actually possible cause the resistance is down to the last men and it doesnt even have a prison) Is that what you think should happen??? Cause that’d be consequences to mutiny lol. But does poe deserve that? even if you dont think about the fact that he was out of character? or the fact that poe was framed as a an irresponsible and immature child that he is not ? NO bitch!

 Like, i’m the last person who uses “if this woman didn’t do something, this man wouldn’t do this, so really it is this woman’s action that made this man do this not-so-great thing” kind of logic, but this literally happened with poe and holdo lmao. If Holdo had told a high ranking officer--someone who commends humongous respect from her troops, or be transparent about a plan that concerns the lives of every single surviving member of resistance, this whole inner conflict would have been avoided. She assumed a officer she doesn’t even know would oppose to her, assumed that he is dangerous (that was some bullshit foreshadowing to the mutiny but literally none of his previous actions in tfa or in comics/novel show him to be a dangerous person so it makes no sense). For anything, I wonder how Holdo explained to Leia about her lack of transparency that led to a unnecessary mutiny within the resistance! It was literally her fault that this bullshit happened! Also, leia, out of all people, knows and LIKES that poe is someone who would challenge authority if it means to save the lives of his troops and those he swore to protect. Keeping Poe in the dark would result in literally nothing good. Leia was supposed to build him to become the leader he could become, but doing what? making him blindly follow leaders he has no reason to trust in? It’s the main reason why poe is recruited in the first place! Holdo led everybody in the resistance to believe that she is leading them to literal death as she exhausted all the escort ships. Her plan, by the way, was risky anyways, because she relied on delivering the resistance members to safety in unarmored transport ships! After she exhausted all the escort ships that could protect these transport ships! The way she sees the last couple of people on the resistance is disgusting cause she sees them as inconsequential and expandable and probably why she is willing to sacrifice ppl like that, yet shes painted to be the one who cares abt her troops?? lmao (she says something abt rose being a nobody or something like that, which shows what thinks of gross-root resistance fights--not as important as she is, and im sorry but i dont have respect for this kind of bourgeois attitude ) There was no good way to resolve this mutiny conflict because if not for bad writing, it wouldn’t have happened anyways. Leia supposedly taught Poe a lesson--what lesson? It’s not like Poe disagreed with Holdo’s plan and tried to start a mutiny? This conflict resolves in such weird fashion because it is a shitty conflict to start with!

Anyways, I’m on the “poe dameron did nothing wrong” team and you all know that this is the right team to be on, but tlj does frame his actions like he’s a immature child...like he needed to learn lessons that he already know, when in reality he really doesn’t cause he’s not a goddamn teenager/child!!!! Tlj framed his first battle as result of reckless action, but when if you think about the entire battle again, you’d know that he made the right call to take out the gigantic dreadnaught ship that would unquestionably destroy the resistance fleet. After all, Leia didn’t counter Poe’s order, she let him follow through his own plan anyways because she must have see the point in his plan anyways! When the dreadnaught is destroyed, she was visibly glad and only become concerned when she realizes the bomber squadrons are all dead (but its really what, 50? maybe not even then vs thousands upon thousands of imperial officers deaths, this is war! poe did what he could do make sure resistance suffer as minimal casualties while causing the maximum damage to F/O!) Leia has been through a war and she maybe too old to send people to deaths, it’s time for her to pass on the burden of a military leader. But for her to blame and physically punished him (someone who just got torture a couple of days ago) because she could no longer deal with the need to send soldiers to their death? Doesn’t seem like the kind of thing Leia should have done! Not to mention, Poe didn’t really develop as a leader, he was just shown as the competent leader that he always was at the end of the narrative! It’s just previously, he was framed as someone who’s made bad and reckless mistakes by not listening to grown-ups and being inconsiderate of others by publicly displaying anger (SUPER NOT IN CHARACTER BTW). Framing Poe as some sort of reckless child that he probably was when he was 15, instead of the 32 year old seasoned leader he already was is disrespectful to his character! Sure, Poe, along with Finn and Rey give off a particular youthful energy. He was enthusiastic, he was passionated, and despite his age, he did not grow cynical--instead he was hopeful and still wanted to fight for a better future. But that does not mean he was a child! Just because leia would be a mother figure to him, doesnt mean hes gotta be come off as a literal child/teenager. 

On the other hand, this post, also sort of compared poe to kylo? and that? kinda pissed me off too? Because kylo was a relatively weak villain because he was emotionally immature and doesn’t realize it’s a problem. He was a man-child, that’s canon. Poe was not a man-child, that was not canon. Kylo is actually pretty in character here. He was someone who decided to ruin his parents’ legacy simply because they didn’t pay as much attention as he thought he should get. Yet despite being such man-child, who’s also emotionally manipulative and abusive on top of that, and just plain emotionally detached from people that he was willing to inflict immense harm to anybody who got in his way, YET DESPITE ALL THAT, he was not necessarily framed as the bad guy. 

The heart of the problem was not that rian portrayed two grown ass men as two man-childs. The heart of the problem was that one of these two grown ass men (poe, a moc) was canonically not a man-child and was framed as so and vilified for a out-of-character characterization, WHILE the other actual villain is framed as endearing man-child who was Deep and Complex. (I saw some ex-mutual reblogged a post in which OP says that kylo is not abusive cause he was a deep and complex character and the implication that abusive people are not complex is super hilarious to me, you all can bend backward to suck his dick its amazing!)