#(it's misogyny tbqh)

[smxlegxrl]

i love you hickeys. i love you bruises. i love you bite marks. i love all of you, reminders that he owns my body.

[doctorwhoisadhd]

this is so. fucking stupid

[aroaessidhe]

2023 reads

The Princess and the Fangirl

YA contemporary prince & the pauper set at a convention

follows a fan who wants to save her fave character from being killed off, and the actress playing her who’s desperate to be free of the intense franchise

when they’re mistaken for each other they instantly hate each other - but after a script is leaked, they swap places to try solve each of their problems - and start to see the fandom from the each other’s perspective

light (since they know each other for like 2 days) f/f & m/f

this is so deeply mid-2010s fandom tumblr. lmao.

[widowshill]

I NEED TO STOP BUT IM UNSTOPPABLE. IM CRAZY. im mentally sick in the head and. character bingo + adam

he's not my personal fave but I Get It

[primowishes]

//There's a lot of fanon stuff for characters that just get on my nerves so bad, and I simply block and move on, but the infantilization of Furina is one of those things that I absolutely cannot stand.

[marley-manson]

Out of curiosity, how would you describe ways people are misogynistic about female characters they like? I can probably guess, ("she's a perfect angel", "she's two dimensional now because everything she does is excusable", "she's the mother", etc.) but I would like to hear your take on it

Yeah that's definitely one of the categories of commentary I was thinking of. Reducing her down to a badass lady with the sole braincell, ignoring flaws and complexities and completely smoothing out her personality, mom friend lol, you nailed that. Also the classic awesome lady and her silly boys style threesome stuff, or the canon love interest in m/m who is totally understanding and supportive and steps aside or welcomes an open relationship happily. It's super annoying and tbqh I'd by far rather see people completely ignore a fictional woman's existence than frame her like that. Honestly, I'd rather see genuine character bashing of a love interest lol, because at least in those fics she usually has a personality, and sometimes even gets to do interesting things.

On the het fan side of things I'd also include a loooooooot of the ways people write and talk about het romance. I see a lot of female character fans, usually the kind who are resentful of m/m and call gay shippers misogynist a lot, who act like their favourite fictional woman can only attain personal fulfillment if she gets together with the dude they ship her with and see anyone who doesn't ship her with a dude (often including f/f fans) as like, maliciously depriving her of happiness lol.

But also all those little heteronormative things that add up - the woman is 'spunky' or 'sassy' (because the man has the power), she falls very neatly into the small weak feminine category to contrast with the manly dude with rough calloused hands (no matter how effeminate the dude actually is lol), she's nurturing and comforting and reads the dude's mind to provide him exactly what he needs and is tolerant and indulgent of his shittiness, her good looks are pointed out a lot, she's a great mom no matter what her canon personality is, etc etc.

And then there's the ship wars lol. Being a fan of a fictional woman absolutely does not mean you love all fictional women, and a lot of the absolute nastiest most misogynist statements I've seen in fandom have come from rival hetshippers wanking. You want to see a woman called a screeching harpy or a fugly slut or a manipulative whore or whatever else lol dive into a fandom with rival het ship wars. My favourite woman is practically perfect in every way and deserves the dude, your favourite woman is a wanton hussy.

This also holds true for the very few f/f fandoms that have rival f/f ships ime. Even Xena fandom regularly had plenty of misogynist things to say about any woman who makes eyes at Gabrielle who isn't Xena lol.

Also I would argue that wider f/f fandom's really fucking annoying compulsion to smooth away all relationship and character flaws and write two perfect women braiding each others' hair and maybe delicately finger-fucking at best in fear of problematic dynamics and kinks is also misogynist at its core, at least as an inescapable trend if not on an individual basis. Though, on that individual basis, the rhetoric around policing problematic f/f is absolutely misogynist (and homophobic). Good women don't get off on power and abuse, we can only like totally egalitarian sex, you're probably a predator if you're into dark fiction, that kind of shit.

And of course that also goes for the rhetoric around fic in general and how much misogyny is aimed at women writing kinky shit or m/m etc, but that's a bit of a digression since it's aimed at real women rather than fictional characters, so I'll stop there.

Thanks for asking and giving me a chance to complain more lol <3

[stop-spreading-this-poll]

Round 1 Poll 27: Women am I right?

Red Dead Redemption 2 submission:

Molly O'Shea ratted on the gang. The game itself literally disproves this it’s just misogyny

Ninjago submission:

Any of the horrible things they say about Misako tbqh + the idea that Kai gave up his childhood to raise Nya, in spite of the quote "[After I lost my dad] I was lucky to have my sister watch over me" directly contradicting that idea (because Nya only exists to prop up male pain to them). Ninjago fans do not like/care about women very much

[mswyrr]

There's been a lot of posts in the main AAA tag that condescend, shame, pathologize, and talk down to people as if merely feeling disappointment in a tv episode is a moral failing. It's not.

There's this insulting way people feel free talking to sapphic shippers who have not actually done anything wrong. There's this idea that our emotions must be in perfect compliance with other peoples' needs and feelings or we're evil and that is heavily influenced by misogyny. Talking to a group of strangers in a high handed and insulting way like we're stupid little girls who need a lecture definitely is misogyny.

Maybe it's just that my mf ships tend to be "problematic," but this kind of condescension isn't something I am used to when I ship mf -- outright hateful stuff, yes, which is easy to block! But the insinuating degradation and insults to our intelligence and personal morals is really something else.

Demeaning strangers on the internet like that is unacceptable behavior to me even if someone has some good points. Block list growing by the day tbqh. Sometimes I even feel genuinely saddened by it because a poster will have a few good points -- but those points are interspersed with such gross, inappropriate ways of speaking to strangers in a hobby space, so shaped by misogynistic expectations of control and shame and humiliation, and nobody has to tolerate being spoken to like that over a silly Marvel tv show.

[mithliya]

is it possible to still have some religious or spiritual beliefs without belonging to a misogynistic religion? i was raised muslim (i'm assuming you're ex-muslim but not sure lol) i realised i'm a lesbian when i was 13, and as i learnt about feminism and began to analyze islam under a more critical feminist lens, i realised the horrible misogyny, pedophilia, homophobia, etc, it contains. i even read about other religions, abrahamic and otherwise, hoping i would find a better one, but all of the ones i read about seem to have misogynistic elements. it seems like religion as a whole is inextricable from female oppression and that there is no religious framework that isn't built for men, nothing that respects female autonomy as people. maybe it is due to my upbringing but i still believe some of the religious stuff i was taught (not the misogyny obviously, but i believe there is a god) and i still find myself wanting to pray. i don't know how to do that without contributing to a misogynistic religion i don't want to be a part of though. i feel pretty lost tbqh

i think it’s possible to denounce religions while picking and choosing aspects of them that you like and want to practice. i was never raised religious so i never had any religious practices that felt comforting to me. despite that, i know lots of women who did grow up religious and don’t even believe in islam but out of habit and due to being accustomed, they would practice certain aspects. considering how it becomes a thing of comfort and habit, i understand why you still do things like pray or believe in god despite you not believing in islam itself. i don’t see why that would be an issue tbh, if you feel comfortable with that then go for it. the only way i can see it as contributing to the religion is if you went to the ka’ba or something lol

[butchbarbieagainstterfs]

I don't have words for whatever level of internalized self hatred this is

"females are inherently vulnerable" bruh fucking wot... Sounds like every incel saving females are inherently submissive

I don’t see how they don’t realise that this is literally just gender roles and internalised misogyny, sexism and transphobia talking here tbqh.

I’m pretty sure I’ve encountered this person before, based on their url. They were a particularly nasty person from what I recall.

Also: I guarantee you that no one has ever told them that their sex isn’t female or that they have to identify as a man. When will these dysphoric terfs with their own issues realise their experience and feelings are not universal?

[lobotomy-lady]

i read or watched this some time ago but a very young girl asked an old woman why she stills cares about skincare and taking care of her skin and you know what that old woman said? "our body and face is like our home, i feel uncomfortable in a home that looks wrinkly and disgusting, i want my home to be as pretty as my soul" thoughts?

just sad tbqh. I mean it is normal to want to look your best no matter what your age is, & a reasonable skincare routine is healthy & hygienic, but the absolute obsession w/looking youthful well into old age is deranged & a very female specific neurosis-which tells you all you need to know about where it's coming from. you don't see many 75 yr old men giving a fuck about their appearance at all beyond maybe dressing nicely, but many 75 yr old women are still dyeing their hair & getting botox & facelifts in a desperate attempt to cling to their youth due to immense societal pressure & the perceived benefits (I only say perceived bc it's a double edged sword & will not ultimately protect you from misogyny whatsoever) being a conventionally attractive woman. it's a difficult thing to have and lose I suppose, especially if your self esteem has balanced precariously on your beauty for your entire life since girlhood.

anyways, we know a woman's appearance is bound more tightly to her self worth than a mans appearance is due to misogyny. it's all about what men want. and what do men want? well...young women. VERY young. teenagers, honestly. I don't want to hear ppl telling me it's wrong to generalize or that I'm making excuses for them-quite the opposite, if I were in charge any grown man who looks at a teen girl the wrong way would have his eyes plucked out and fed to the birds-but it's just measurably true. so women try to emulate this pedophilic beauty standard bc it's been hammered into us that desirability = worth & desirability decreases with every second from the moment we turn 20.

[aizenat]

Kinda not sure how to say this tbqh, but the way that modern “feminist” conversations seems to be mostly on the relationships between men and women with stupid gender war dialogues, I’m feeling like I need to step back from this shit a lot.

Like I’ll be watching these videos where the magical unicorn men will do live streams arguing with men to try to get them to see women as humans, and hearing these degenerates say things like how everything went downhill when women got rights, or admitting that yes women are second class citizens without the same privileges and rights as men but that’s not misogyny is making me both lose faith in the idea that men can be changed and also just feel bad for the women trying to find love in this pool.

And then I’ll have that “thank god I’m a lesbian” thought, but then think “well, since I don’t have to date these men, why do I care?” And truly, I have to ask that a lot. Like I obviously care about female rights and empowerment, and will big they where I can. But I’m so over caring about any of these conversations. Especially when the women engaged in them are just as patriarchal and coming to stupid conclusions and arguments as well. “You men want a submissive woman but don’t wanna be providers but why should a woman submit to a man who can’t pay the bills?” As if a man paying the bills justifies having a woman as your wife-slave, but okay. As if all women happily want to submit, we just need some man making all the money to submit to. Like stfu women are not naturally submissive. If we were, the patriarchy wouldn’t have had to spend millennia creating rules and laws barring women from shit just to keep us under lock and key. We would have “naturally” done it, no laws needed. But we don’t because no human is naturally submissive: you have it beaten into you one way or another.

But these people aren’t on the same level to even understand THAT. Like we’re never getting out of the patriarchy, but I at least don’t have to live a patriarchal life, so why listen to these heteros argue and debate how they want to be treated in their patriarchal relationships?

Lately, I just don’t want to think about politics. Everyone is so damn stupid, and I’m just tired of being expected to care about any of it anymore. No one else does. No one else is taking it seriously. What do I gain from being part of these online spaces of people trying to create entire political identities over dating cultures?

I’m tired of everything having to be political. I’m tired of caring about shit no one else does. Fuck it and focus on self right? Shit.

[bisluthq]

There were several guys that didn’t like Taylor’s pr driven lifestyle and were even terrified of it. Tyler of the All American Rejects said he didn’t like her lifestyle. Hozier said he wasn’t interested in a relationship when asked about her, but he went on to some kind of relationship with other women. Interesting he didn’t deny dating her. Tom O’Dell was absolutely terrified of it. She publicly flaunted him to spite Harry, but it never went anywhere because she picked the wrong guy. These guys are just the ones we know about. Harry, Jake, and Joe A didn’t like the spotlight into the romance, and Calvin and Matty certainly hated her stans. Are we to believe all these guys are the ones with the problem, and not her at all? They all soured on a relationship with her, but most went on to long term relationships or even marriage with others.

Ehhhhh. Ehhhhhhhhhh. I hear some of what you’re saying but like for me the point is it takes two to tango. Hiddles and Calvin are significantly older than Taylor and only quite/very recently (respectively) found their forever partners (for now lol at least like marriage isn’t actually till death do you part; sources: my parents and my boyfriend lol). Harry dated Taylor when he was 19 and she was 23 and like idk I didn’t know what the fuck I wanted at 19 or for that matter 23. I still find it a bit weird she was into him then because like at 23 I was a TA and teaching 19 yos and certainly not thinking about marriage with their dumb asses but like I also didn’t fundamentally know what I want. I still don’t know that I do for sure and like my 20s are finished and done right but I’m still I suppose young and I don’t know for sure. I think Taylor not knowing is human and here I do think there’s some internalized misogyny. Boys are allowed to pick and choose right but if a girl isn’t happy with her first few choices somehow she’s the problem??? Nahhhh. Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Ehhhhh.

also Taylor never flaunted Tom O’Dell lol to spite Harry wtf are you talking about bestie?? They were papped pretty organically on one date (I do think they had a few more) and he went on to release a song about her so like idk??? They went on some dates and it didn’t go anywhere????? That’s all that happened??????? He still released a song about it like years later which is objectively a bit weird.

idk guys I can’t tell you how many dates I’ve been on in my life and I’m younger than Taylor and like Taylor also spent a good chunk of my 20s in a serious relationship (mine started earlier and ergo ended earlier ages wise). There are a bunch of people - because I’m bi so like there’s no gender applicable - whose names I can’t even remember. Like first names. I don’t know dudes I can’t recall all of them. I’d be mortified if the press kept a record of that (and Taylor is tbh but also girl ur a public figure we’re allowed to).

I’m a huge Taylor fan and I’m not into this ask and its weird misogynistic like semi slut shaming vibes at all tbqh.

[knightotoc]

^ apparently he's the reason SFF is horny so, respect. The book is awesome but I wouldn't recommend it unless you have a lot of patience for problematic, outdated, super weird nonsense like I do. There are 6 short stories:

1. Sail On! Sail On!

The premise of the first story is, what if the world WAS flat, so Columbus fell off the edge? It's an absolutely brilliant idea and shown in a really cool way. The best part of the story, and the whole book really, is his made-up early-modern Christian ham radio: the Morse code is not an electric binary of dots vs dashes, but a moral binary of angels vs fallen angels:

It's just so ridiculous and clever and funny, it blows my mind. I heard about this story bc I was reading some Ted Chiang, who also often has the premise "what if this pseudoscience was real?" But I liked this old story a lot more, if only because it's so much funnier.

2. Mother

Another great but much weirder and creepier story. There's a lot of horror movies about evil/twisted moms/motherhood, and I feel like this goes harder than most (as a rule books generally go harder than movies tho). No notes, it's awesome. I feel like Junji Ito should adapt this.

3. The God Business

Starts off like Annihilation with a weird evil Garden of Eden appearing in America (I wonder what a Mormon would do with that premise?), but gets a lot more goofy Alice in Wonderland, and then just super bizarre mid-century atheist-misogyny-psychology bullshit. It reminds me of It Happened in Boston? and More Than Human. An acquired taste to be sure, but I am so compelled by the bitterness and sarcasm toward God in these old stories that you just don't see in fiction anymore.

4. The Alley Man

My least favorite story and barely sci-fi, it's about a horny, impoverished caveman (?) and a wide-eyed grad student who is fascinated by him. It reminded me of Candyman 1992, but not nearly as good. Kind of cringe all around tbqh but apparently this was cutting-edge nastiness so ig I appreciate it as a historical artifact.

5. My Sister's Brother

Another bizarre one, but I like the claustrophobic setting and the horrible twists and turns. The porn-y bullshit and the long descriptions of the aliens are tiresome but kind of cool. This one and Mother have fun alien gender binaries, but Mother's is more fun.

6. The King of Beasts

Fun one-page horror story, I like it!

[domesticabuser]

no one understands super princess peach tbqh her emotion powers come from peach being the only one who can keep her cool when exposed to the emotion wand NOT a stereotypical depiction of period mood swings or whatever unfunny people have to say

Very true i remember there being a Misogyny discussion about the game a long time agobut its literally the best mario game ever made sooo

[delusion-of-negation]

ironically, mutalieju is the one being deceptive because it was a

"it's a part of an effort to argue against transmisogyny as an intersection of transphobia and misogyny" it literally isn't? who apparently made you think that? it's literally just that bigoty is genuinely more complicated than A + B = AB and transmascs experience their own strange intersections and unique kinds of transphobia and, yes, systemic discrimination. while the ways society, government, individuals, systems, etc, affect people is dramatically more complicated than simple labels, it's so much more complicated than mushing two labels together and then pretending if one of your labels isn't woman then the way your gendered characteristics interact with prejudice doesn't get an expression to describe it and, in fact, doesn't exist, and if you're saying it does actually that means you're the bigot. like. what?? however, there are intersections of the ways various identities typically influence the kinds of discrimination you get - what it actually means to believe transmisandry exists isn't that "men oppressed, women oppressors, transmisogyny don't real", it's a phrase to simply convey the way man and trans affect various general experiences of discrimination, including the systemic. nothing about it whatsoever denies that trans and woman also intersect and affect general trends. if you think intersectionality functions like a 2015 alt-right channel's bad strawman of what leftists believe, bad vs good on each characteristic and you can simply count up your points, shut up. because that's how your mischaracterisation of transmisandry stuff comes across like. I genuinely don't know how you can be so smugly ignorant tbqh.

"the criticism has never been solely 'this word is bad'" no it's all "actually this word is bad because we refuse to listen to what it genuinely means and instead attribute absurd malicious intent"

"largely understand it on a level of 'strangers calling you slurs on the street' instead of actual systematic issues, but I digress" hm systemic discrimination like lack of access to reproductive care? systemic discrimination like infantalisation and ableism to deny access to gender affirming care? systemic discrimination like an entire industry of people screaming about how they mutilate all precious little angels' tits? systemic discrimination like being the highest rape victimisation rate demographic? op explains these things, and more, regularly, it's not their fault you won't listen.

"people at the centre of this movement (generally transmascs, like OP here) do not actually believe misogyny is real" you see? absolutely absurd malicious intent just slapped on when that's literally not something anybody said. you idiots believe saying a masculine person experiences a systemic discrimination means you're saying misogyny don't real, then say other people have a ridiculously oversimplified view of discrimination. you dumbass.

its honestly wild, when you sit with it, that people are trying to beat and criminalize trans people out of existence. and folks are genuinely like wait a minute everyone!!! we need to debate the exact right word for when people want trans men dead. IF it even happens🙄. like if ur in a fight do u stop to look around for a specific model of knife with the perfect weight and shape thats appropriately sharpened or do you grab whatevers available and get to work