#(i’m a gay mike truther by the way :D)

[bylerpolls]

For those who believe gay mike makes more sense/ ties up more loose ends, would you be satisfied if the show went the queer/unlabeled route (which IMO is more likely for a confused boy in the 80s than Mike using a specific term), but framed it in a way that could fit in with both gay Mike and bi Mike (especially if he has a heavy male lean) in which:

1) He genuinely did have a puppy crush on El in Season 1. He didn’t use El as a beard or go to her because he confused platonic feelings for romantic ones. They were romantic (lots of people who identify as gay now have had genuine early childhood crushes on the opposite sex, and obviously this would work if you see him as bi too).

2) In Season 2 he genuinely had a crush on both El and Will, but since he was already best friends with Will, he didn’t realize this. The Snowball dance was fully sincere. He wasn’t hiding behind El or anything.

3) In Season 3, during puberty is where everything went haywire. He found himself being more physically and romantically drawn to Will than El. Whether or not he has the hypothetical ability to be attracted to other girls is not even the point. It’s El or Will for Mike. And the point is that the gay feelings were overwhelming. Internalized homophobia was at all time high. Maybe he still liked El, but the puppy crush feelings were waning and he was realizing new things about himself.

4) In Season 4, his queer awakening becomes more pronounced, and he doesn’t like El like that anymore. He’s fully in love with Will AND checking out other boys. Again, Mike wouldn’t have to explain whether he’s ever liked girls before. The point is the queerness. The point is that he feels broken. The point is that he worries everyone will hate him.

With this, Mike could say he genuinely liked El at the beginning while also detailing his feelings for boys/Will in a way that can fit in with either theory. He doesn’t label himself specifically. The audience can interpret the nuances however they want. Mike’s sexuality still gets focus, so it’s not like he just moves from being El’s bf to Will’s. But it doesn’t bog itself down in the weeds of trying to put a concrete label to human sexuality. Many gay kids can relate to his story, many bi kids can relate to his story, and so can unlabeled kids. Thoughts on this?

A) Yes, I’m a gay Mike truther, but I’d be fully satisfied with something like this

B) I’m a bi Mike truther, but I’d be fully satisfied with something like this

C) I truly don’t care as long as he loves Will!

D) No, I’m a gay Mike truther and believe this would be a cop-out. He needs to be specifically, unquestionably gay for his story to be satisfying and make sense.

E) I’m a bi Mike truther and this wouldn’t be satisfying to me. Bi Mike is important to me and makes more sense with the narrative of the show.

F) I’d be fine with something like this, but with a few tweaks to make it make sense (say what those tweaks are!) But it’s overall fine for him to be unlabeled if his sexuality is given proper focus

[starsarefire824]

Sorry to unload Byler into your askbox but I am going *insane* with the concept of Mike knowing and understanding that he likes Will, even before the Big Reveal(tm) and the only reason that he hasn't acted on it is bc he has internalised some wild homophobia/self hatred and like maybe he also has some vague idea that Will is possibly queer and yeah it's fine if it's his friend and he will defend him until death but god forbid Mike is queer

No worries anon! I don't mind at all. I am actually going to go on a very long rant about this so buckle up. (Sorry everyone)

I think Mike's feelings revolving around Will are extremely complicated. I am wary of the idea that Mike knows and understands his feelings for Will directly. I think that the repression is real for Mike unfortunately.

That being said, I think that people's opinion's of Mike's behavior in season 3 and 4 being the way it was is because he's straight is completely wrong. If anything, it just proves to me more that he's queer. (I am a bi mike truther, and I think that having any positive bi representation is always a wonderful and a much needed thing, but in truth, I am not too attached to any, specific idea for him. Gay, bi, pan, unlabeled. It doesn't matter to me. He is queer lol) I do love the idea of him being bi, because I think it explains some of his back and forth and confusing behavior that we've seen from the beginning. I also think it is a very real reason as to why he is so confused and repressed. As someone who didn't have "the revelation" until my twenties, but also have had some very complicated relationships that didn't make sense until after I had that realization, I honestly really feel for Mike. I get him.

That’s why I have to laugh when people say if people's opinions on Mike and Will are based on subtext then they are looking too much into it. What people like that don’t understand is literally most queer people’s lives, especially when they are young and coming of age IS ALL ENTIRELY SUBTEXT. And the time period this show takes place in only exasperates that.

Things are never said out loud, true feelings are veiled with other issues, people are jealous and they don’t know why, they can’t figure out why they want that one friend all to themselves, why does it hurt so much when they choose to be with someone else? The way Mike acted in these seasons was very deliberate imo. He’s pushing Will away on purpose in season 3. And why is it exactly, that Mike can never balance Will and El emotionally when they are expecting and asking things of him?

So to answer your question lol after this tangent just keeps getting longer, I’m not convinced Mike truly knows why he feels like he needs to do that in season 3, but it doesn’t change the fact that his behavior is and can be very normal for queer kids figuring out their shit.

In that season, it's entirely to do with repression and nothing to do with him not wanting to play d&d anymore. So yes, internalized homophobia and self-hatred and denial of feelings is strong in Mike's character. Much more so than Will. Will has his issues and definitely has a lot of pain and feels like a "mistake" sometimes. We can see that shown to us in the destruction of castle byers scene. But as far as self-awareness and accepting himself for who he is, Will has never had too much of a problem with that. Will has never tried to be someone he's not. He has never given into a relationship or a situation because "it's what you're supposed to do" or to hide himself in anyway. I feel like Will is pretty unapologetically himself, even with his insecurities. That's why, imo, he receives the brunt of the bullying out of all the boys, especially in the beginning of the show. He doesn't change his clothes or his hobbies or his quiet sweetness. His true self never falters. The only time I can think of a time where he does anything like that is when he dances with the girl in season 2. But who's the one that pushes him to do it? That had more to do with pleasing Mike than it did with trying to be untrue to himself. And we've seen obviously from the scene in the classroom in season four that Will has most certainly not continued to do that as he's matured.

As for Mike, I think that season 4 something shifts a little bit. I think that Mike had a bit of a revelation at the end of season three and I think that being separated from El and Will really made him realize some things. Is he ready to face what that actually means in his relationship with Will? No, not in my opinion. But the way he so quickly and honestly responds to the fight in Rink-O-Mania (one last push for Mike to push Will away) and Will's support regarding El's letter in Jonathan's bedroom to me really is showing how Mike's feeling. He wants/needs things to be good between them. He wants Will in his life. He wants things to go back the way they were in season 1 and 2. He finally gives Will the attention he has so desperately asked for for two seasons all while struggling with this "issue" of telling his girlfriend he loves her. I think that the uncertainty and push/pull he is feeling is actually painful to watch. Because Mike does love El. And as Finn Wolfhard said, "he just wants to be normal." Normal is telling your girlfriend you love her. Normal is being in a relationship with a girl. Normal is not choosing your best friend over your girlfriend. Normal is putting her first. And so he does go through with it, but I really deep down believe that that is not what he really wants. I really think that since the end of season 3 Mike has realized that he also wants to spend his life in the basement with his best friend. Has he figured out that that love is romantic and that his feelings are sexual? I don't think he's completely figured that out yet. But I do think we'll get some more scenes of Mike having ??? in season 5, even before the Big Reveal. And i think that internal homophobia, self-denial, and refusal to accept who he really is all played a part in Mike's struggle.

[will80sbyers]

It’s possible to be bi and also have internalized homophobia. I know every bi person is different so you obviously see things a different way which is fully valid :) But I’m also bi and definitely read Mike as expressing some internalized homophobic in the rain fight. Maybe it’s because that’s one of my favorite pieces of Byler evidence and don’t wanna lose it 😭 but also because I think it’s super relatable and doesn’t just apply if Mike is gay with comphet. It makes sense to me that Mike could both be bi and like girls in general but be scared of any feelings he has for boys/his best friend as well (most likely subconsciously since he wouldn’t have the Internet or an am I gay quiz to sort through his feelings). That way, rather than being a projection of, “It’s not my fault I don’t like girls,” like a lot of gay Mike truthers believe,” or “It’s not my fault you don’t like girls yet,” like your power point says, it would be, “It’s not my fault I like boys too. I like girls (genuinely). And I have a girlfriend. Which you will soon. Obviously. It’s not my fault you don’t have one yet. Stop reminding me about my latent romantic feelings for you. Did you think we were really gonna stay in my basement all day forever? Why would you think that? No, it’s not like I’ve thought about that. Because I like girls!” I think combining the best of both worlds of fruity Mike theories makes the most sense of everything

I know it's possible but I don't think that's what's happening in the show :/

I think the part about "not having girlfriends and staying in the basement etc" was him trying to explain what he meant before, because he meant that "yet" that was unspoken but he realized he fucked up because he knows Will has been targeted for that before, he knew that phrase came out like he was bullying Will but he didn't mean anything about his sexuality

the whole problem Mike has in s3 is that he feels like he HAS to grow up because he is in a relationship now so he's not a kid anymore, I think that fits with the fight... Mike is telling Will that he thinks they all should grow up and Will makes him realize that's just stupid... Mike doesn't REALLY want to stop playing d&d and enjoy things for kids yet but he thought he had to to be cool for Eleven... Will opens up a different possibility

I just don't think Mike has internalized homophobia, I think he will accept being queer more easily than Will

[bylerpolls]

If you’re against the hypothetical concept of Mike being bi with a male lean, why are you?

A) I’m not against it! In fact, I that’s how I interpret Mike Wheeler as a character and what I think is happening in the show 

B) I’m not against it, even though IDT that’s what is happening in the show (Mike is gayyyyy)

C) I’m not against it, even though I don’t think that’s what’s happening in the show (Mike likes guys and girls fairly equally, he’s bi bi bi)

D) I AM against it cause it’s important to me that Mike likes guys and girls fairly equally. This “heavy male lean” interpretation is filtering things through the gay Mike lens, which is biased. I think Mike liked El even in S3, he just loves Will more. This is ultimately just a classic love triangle situation. Why do people make things more complex than they needs to be?

C) Cause it would be a narrative cop-out, especially if the show went the unlabeled route in the process. It’s important to explicitly state that Mike is unable to love El/girls romantically because he is only attracted to boys/Will. This is the only thing that will satisfy. Mike is a homosexual. No middle ground here.

D) Because that’s a meaningless concept, especially within the show’s narrative. If he has a “heavy male lean,” he’s functionally just gay. Why is it so important for him to “like girls,” even a little bit, when he’s clearly gay within the subtext and text of ST? Boys only, not boys most of the time. When has he ever shown an interest in girls within the show?

E) Because I genuinely don’t understand this concept, both in and out of the show. It also seems like more of a modern concept IMO and not how 80s Mike would understand his sexuality (gay). Why jump through hoops just to avoid hurting El/erasing romantic Mlvn? 

F) Because the analysis only points one way, and any bi Mike interpretation is working backwards and trying to fit Mike into a label that doesn’t describe him for biased reasons. People WANT him to be bi, but the very fact that some bi Mike truthers are in bargaining mode shows that he isn’t bi. If they wanted to write a bi character, they would’ve done so.

G) I truly don’t care where Mike falls on the Kinsey scale as long as he and Will get together! 

[bylerpolls]

the letters on the previous version tripped me out so I had to fix them:

If you’re against the hypothetical concept of Mike being bi with a male lean, why are you?

A) I’m not against it! In fact, I that’s how I interpret Mike Wheeler as a character and what I think is happening in the show

B) I’m not against it, even though IDT that’s what is happening in the show (Mike is gayyyyy)

C) I’m not against it, even though I don’t think that’s what’s happening in the show (Mike likes guys and girls fairly equally, he’s bi bi bi)

D) I AM against it cause it’s important to me that Mike likes guys and girls fairly equally. This “heavy male lean” interpretation is filtering things through the gay Mike lens, which is biased. I think Mike liked El even in S3, he just loves Will more. This is ultimately just a classic love triangle situation. Why do people make things more complex than they needs to be?

E) Cause it would be a narrative cop-out, especially if the show went the unlabeled route in the process. It’s important to explicitly state that Mike is unable to love El/girls romantically because he is only attracted to boys/Will. This is the only thing that will satisfy. Mike is a homosexual. No middle ground here.

F) Because that’s a meaningless concept, especially within the show’s narrative. If he has a “heavy male lean,” he’s functionally just gay. Why is it so important for him to “like girls,” even a little bit, when he’s clearly gay within the subtext and text of ST? Boys only, not boys most of the time. When has he ever shown an interest in girls within the show?

G) Because I genuinely don’t understand this concept, both in and out of the show. It also seems like more of a modern concept IMO and not how 80s Mike would understand his sexuality (gay). Why jump through hoops just to avoid hurting El/erasing romantic Mlvn?

H) Because the analysis only points one way, and any bi Mike interpretation is working backwards and trying to fit Mike into a label that doesn’t describe him for biased reasons. People WANT him to be bi, but the very fact that some bi Mike truthers are in bargaining mode shows that he isn’t bi. If they wanted to write a bi character, they would’ve done so.

I) I truly don’t care where Mike falls on the Kinsey scale as long as he and Will get together!