#(also big sidebar: can we also talk about how sam and cas are mirrors of one another. their parallel struggles w faith and goodness)

[finalgirlsamwinchester]

what are your thoughts on samruby?

thank you for sending this! and OH BOY i wrote a lot. i'm so sorry. i'm putting it under a cut for everyone's sanity.

see, the thing about samruby to me is the religiosity of it all. it's about a victim unknowingly initiated into a cult. it's about a holy lamb being raised for slaughter.

firstly i can't discuss it without spilling my guts over ruby as a character!! i saw a meta the other day (and i wish i'd reblogged it bc i can't find it again) calling ruby the most devout character in supernatural. and they're right! she is! her arc is about devotion and keeping faith. she's a direct narrative foil to cas, who falls down the path of doubt and experiences a crisis of faith. For ruby, her god is lucifer, and she'll accept all persecution and undergo every trial she has to in order to fulfil her mission as his servant. and she does! she succeeds up to her death! (whereas cas fails, and lives)

she doesn't see grooming and manipulating sam as an act of corruption. it's about purification. (and we all know how sam feels about purity, aha) for ruby, the demon blood drinking is a matter of cleansing sam of human imperfection, for the purposes of presenting lucifer his ideal vessel. because the thing about sam is that he's a liminal figure. he's as human as he is monstrous - and from a demonic perspective, wouldn't his humanness be considered the infection?

the way ruby preys on sam also has a definite maternal tilt to it. from as early as s3 (like the way she says 'that's my boy!' to him in 3x04? like dean does in 1x11?). she calls him 'sammy' in a way that mirrors dean, but also evokes maternal warmth. just as dean in season 1 functions as a protector and guide for sam when he brings him back into the hunting fold, ruby does so for sam in dean's absence. sam's grief and vulnerability presents her an opportunity to take on the role of carer and mentor. she'll teach him how to use his powers! she'll guide him in what he needs to do, while he's so lost in his own suffering. sure she provides warmth and affection - but more importantly, she directs sam towards a mission, a cause for good.

she's an incredible character to pair off with sam, a character full of hope and belief that his faith might amount to something (i'm thinking of the start of s11 here - sam desperate to believe his prayers are being answered by god. only to discover it was lucifer all along) he wants to be like joan of arc - he wants the voice of heaven commanding and guiding him along a path of heroism. it's his hope and faith that make him vulnerable.

ruby takes on sam like she's a cult recruiter preying on a victim! like if you go through the stages of cult indoctrination: deception (check! she tricks him into breaking the final seal by killing lilith!), isolation (check! sam having to keep his activities w ruby a secret, driving a wedge between him and dean, eventuating in their separation), induced dependency (check! a blood addiction!). by the end of it, he's left abandoned by his loved ones, alone and entirely reliant on her and the purpose she's given him.

but luckily - sam is a character who hates being controlled above all else, so he does not have his Midsommar (2019) May Queen moment. even when he does let lucifer in, he does so as a sleeper agent. he holds onto his independent spirit to the end :")

tldr; ruby loves sam as a devotee loves their holy mission. sam begrudgingly accepts ruby, not as the divine guidance he wants, but the only one that'll speak to him.

[babygirl06301]

I wanna talk about That Scene™

in 13x03, and I’m gonna do it line by line, so are you with me? (using this video posted by @lostboycas for reference) It’s gonna be long.

TL;DR: Just read the emboldened bits

By the way, this post is gonna endorse the hell out of Destiel, so if you don’t ship it, please don’t tarnish this post with hatred. Live and let love, dudes.

I’m going through the whole shebang and sheboozle, so we’re starting with:

D: [giving a reason as to why he said he’d kill Jack] I told him the truth. See, you think you can use this freak, but I know how this ends, and it ends bad.

S: I didn’t.

D: What?

S: I didn’t end bad... when I was the “freak,” when I was drinking demon blood.

D: Come on, man, that’s totally different.

S: Was it? Because you could’ve put a bullet in me. Dad told you to put a bullet in me, but you didn’t. You saved me. So, help me save him. 

So, this piece of the conversation kind of hurt me a little bit because I feel like Dean regressed back to the Dean he used to be, which is sad. Not that Dean’s old self was bad, it’s just that he’s grown so much since then. He’s a lot more accepting of monsters and demons and “freaks” if he can be convinced they’re not evil.

Now, of course, I understand why he’s harboring such hostile opinions toward Jack (and if I didn’t understand, I got it loud and clear with this episode), but it’s sort of disheartening that he’d use the work “freak” in front of Sam after everything they’ve been through. 

However, I do appreciate that Sam stuck up for Jack here without hesitation. Especially since I’m sure he understands more than anybody else what Dean’s going through, whether you liken that to how Sam felt when he lost Jess and/or Sam just simply observing the connection that Cas and Dean have built over the years. I’m liking that Sam is connecting the most with Jack right now, despite S12 setting it up for Cas having that connection (which will come later, of course). I’m so glad that Sam has his own path/storyline again. I feel like it’s long overdue.

I’m gonna put the rest under the cut so I don’t spam you guys with a wall of post.

Next:

D: You deserved to be saved. He doesn’t.

S: Yes, he does, Dean. Of course he does.

So, I know we’re all talking about this scene/line mirroring this one:

(Shameless self-promo: this photo is from my side-blog, check it out here)

and a lot of people have been talking about this parallel. @chocolatedeathwarrior made a post about it that you can see here. I kind of want to talk about something in the same vain which is that Dean blames himself for Castiel’s death--not Jack.

I think the first place we see that this season is during this scene where the angel Dean is fighting tells him that Castiel is “all the way dead” because of him.

Knowing Dean, this was kind of what I expected to see as a reaction to Cas’s death. It’s still sad, though. I do think that he’s projecting his self-hatred onto Jack because he can’t handle his true thoughts, which are that he got Castiel killed. And as much as I wish he wouldn’t take it out on my little pumpkin, I can’t blame him. Losing somebody with whom you had that kind of connection with... Well, I’m just surprised he’s still standing. Long story short, that line of dialogue in 4x01 is most likely mirrored here because Dean didn’t think he deserved to be saved back then. And, in my head, he feels guilty that Cas saved him in the first place because then Cas wouldn’t be dead today. (i.e. “If I hadn’t broken the first seal in Hell, Cas could’ve left Earth the second he sprung me, and none of the rest would’ve happened) Just... Dean’s got demons, ya know?

Another thing I kind of want to focus on here is Sam’s response to Dean saying that Jack doesn’t deserve to be saved. To me, his response tells me he sees Jack as an innocent, and I’m assuming that’s the case because he saw himself as an innocent victim as well. But I find the differences between them even more compelling than their similarities. Sam was chosen, but Jack was born into his power. Sam was given power specifically to do evil, Jack’s powers are just assumed to be evil because of their volume and their origins. Sam embraced his powers (eventually), and Jack seems to be afraid of his powers. So, by and large, Jack seems to be even more of an innocent than Sam was. Which is why Dean needs to back the fuck up off my baby.

Moving on:

D: Look, I know you think that you can use him as some sort of an interdimensional can opener, and that’s fine. But don’t act like you care about him, because you only care about what he can do for you. So, if you want to pretend, that’s fine. But me? I can hardly look at the kid. ‘Cause when I do, all I see is everybody we’ve lost.

First of all, can we just take a look at Sam’s face here when Dean says that Sam just wants to use Jack for his own personal gain?

Like, why would you say that about his little moose? Mamma Moose is gonna fuck you up.

But, honestly, that face is both amazing (because you can tell Sam really does care about Jack) and sad (because Sam’s wondering if his big brother really thinks that he’s that selfish). I mean, of course Sam would like for Jack to bring Mary back, but I also believe he really does want to fulfill Kelly and Cas’s wishes for him. Not to mention, he can connect with Jack on a level he hasn’t been able to with anybody else.

Which brings up an interesting tangent that I’m going to go on now:

Why is it that Sam, of all people, is doing what Castiel would’ve wanted? Not that it’s out of character for Sam, but don’t you think that it’d be more in character for Dean to do so because of the bond he and Cas shared? No. Because Dean not only blames Jack and blames himself, but he blames Cas. He’s furious that Cas put himself in a situation that got him killed. He’s pissed at Cas for being dead. And I don’t think Dean knows what to do with that.

Back on track:

S: Mom chose to take that shot at Lucifer. That is not on Jack.

D: And what about Cas?

S: What about Cas?

D: He manipulated him. He made him promises. Said “Paradise on Earth,” and Cas bought it. And you know what that got him? It got him dead! Now, you might be able to forget about that, but I can’t!

This is it. This is the moment everybody is talking about. Including me.

Okay, for one thing, he totally disregards Mary. “Fuck her, we’re talking about Cas. Keep up, Moose Man.” Like? Both of them were killed by Lucifer (he thinks), both of them chose to protect everything they were leaving behind, so? Maybe Dean reacted differently to Cas’s death because, oh, I don’t know, their bond isn’t familial? I mean, I’m just throwing that out there, but I dunno, maybe it could be a very fucking likely possibility?

Sidebar: I was discussing this with @tobythewise, and has Dean ever called Jack by name? Because I don’t think he has, and I imagine that’s in an effort to not humanize Jack in his mind. I assume he’d rather see Jack as a thing instead of as a person.

So, now, we’re gonna talk about a thing. A thing that the anti-Destiel fans may not enjoy. I’m gonna make a statement. And it’s gonna be pretty matter-of-fact. My conviction is pretty strong here. Are you prepared?

Literally, Dean has never reacted to a loved one’s death like this.

Look at the pain, the near panic in his eyes (and, no, that is not a Hercules reference).

Honestly, make a list. Make a list of the behaviors Dean exhibited immediately following each of these people’s deaths.

John (shuts it down, doesn’t talk about it until he’s dealt with most of it on his own, privately bashes in the Impala)

Sam (immediately takes action to bring him back to life after a very short, and still private, grieving period, essentially bypassing the opportunity to feel the loss of his brother)

Bobby (ignores the pain, denies the existence of Bobby’s spirit for a long period of time)

Ellen, Jo, and Ash (ignores the pain again, accepts their deaths as his fault as well as part of the job)

Kevin (same thing, blocks out the pain, privately trashes the bunker)

Charlie (same thing, puts up a wall, only briefly berates Sam for involving her in their dangerous lives)

Mom (assumes she’s dead, won’t talk about it, accepts the loss)

Crowley (accepts the loss again)

Castiel (prays to Chuck to bring him back, openly implies to a random angel that he wants to use Jack’s powers to get Cas back, publicly screams out his pain of losing Cas to Sam, knowing full well that Jack could potentially hear)

This isn’t to say that he isn’t trying to block out Cas’s death like he does with everybody else’s, but it isn’t fuckin’ workin’, is it, mate? 

And, I know. Dean has blocked out the pain of Castiel’s deaths or disappearances before, but that was because: their relationship wasn’t as developed as it is now, they just came out of a falling out, or he didn’t fucking block it out, and instead, he had dreams and nightmares about losing Cas.

So, basically, the point I’m trying to make here is that Dean is having a blown out reaction to losing Castiel, and I think it’s because he never got to say the things he needed to say to him. Things like “Thank you for everything you’ve done to save me” or “You don’t have to prove yourself to me” or “We need you here more than you realize” or “I love you.” You know, just... whatever.

Of course, it isn’t to say that Dean cares about Cas more than anybody else, because we know that’s not true. Sammy is #1, always. But it is to say that A, Castiel’s bond with Dean is significantly different than a friendship, family, or frenemy bond. B, because of that, he doesn’t know how to cope with the loss and C, the matter of the unrequited feelings and unsaid words is taking its toll.

Phew, that was a lot. I’ve only got one more thing to discuss here: Jack.

J: [whispers] Castiel. 

One thing I found kind of interesting/strange was Jack’s facial expression throughout this whole scene.

It’s very neutral, almost, right? I mean, it’s puzzled, sure, but given the context of the conversation between Sam and Dean, shouldn’t he be sad or mad or something? Seeing as how this dumpling is just like his dad, I get it . I mean, he’s new to the world, he doesn’t quite understand the “ebb and flow of human emotion” (Castiel, 2013), but he didn’t even react when Sam was defending him, which I found interesting. 

I made a post about this, but I’ll say it again here that Jack seems to value Dean’s opinion more than he does Sam’s. Just like Cas did. Not that Sam’s opinion is worthless, but still, Jack seems to want Dean’s approval more than he wants Sam’s. Maybe that’s because negative words reach people quicker than positive words? Maybe because Sam readily gave his approval, Jack feels he needs to focus on getting Dean’s? Maybe Jack’s connection to Cas bonded him to Dean in the same way Cas was bonded to Dean? (like how Amara used their connection to reach Dean in S11 *idea courtesy of @tobythewise.*)

The latter answer is my favorite because it reminds me that Cas learned how to be human from Dean, and what’s Jack been doing since hittin’ this green earth?

Exactly. Anyway, I find it really cute that Jack is looking up to Dean, but I also find it really sad that Dean is shutting him down like he is, and I also find it sad that Dean is in so much pain that it’s literally shooting out of him and hitting everything in sight.

So, then we see Cas. 

Here’s the thing: Jack needs Cas, yes. Jack could’ve subconsciously woken Castiel up because he wanted him back. But it’s pretty coincidental that Jack did so right after hearing Dean’s literal screams of pain for Cas. I hope Jack’s not thinking that bringing/having Cas back will make Dean accept him. I know that will probably be what happens, but I want Jack to bring Cas back just because he knows it’ll make Dean happy. Ya know? Hell, maybe both of those things are his motivation. Although, I don’t think he woke Cas up consciously. But! He did say earlier that using his powers were like breathing, so waking Cas up for Dean must of felt pretty natural to him, huh?

Anyway, that’s all I’ve got. I love, love, love this season so far. I love the Dabb era. I love that Castiel is getting the screen time and love that he deserves. I love that Jack is one of the best characters to ever join the show (which is impressive after 13 seasons). I love that Sam is a little Mamma Moose. I love that Dean is finally grieving Cas. I love it all. After a particularity grueling hellatus, I’m looking forward to more. Let me know your thoughts! 

[elizabethrobertajones]

Why do you think that when seemingly funny thing happen, they happen to Dean? Like the fear thing in Yellow Fever or the age thing in 5.07 and 10.12 (both old and young!) or the memory thing in Regarding Dean. I'm sure I'm missing a lot of others (and also the not so funny like the vampire thing in 6.05 and of course Demon!Dean in S10). But I can't really picture Sam on those situation tho, Dean is perfect xD

And this is why Plucky’s is my favourite episode, because the thing happened to Sam and it was also perfect but in a completely different way :P 

If you’ve seen the gifset ever of that con where they were talking somewhat seriously about this, before someone said Sam was the straight man to Dean and then Jared imploded… I mean, I need someone to turn that up for me so I can stick it in the “thanks Jared” section of my massive bi dean meta etc resource… But also they WERE making a serious point before they derailed it :P 

The show has a lot of quietly set in stone dynamics. I mean, well, they’re stuff that can get subverted or a particular arc or season will try to explore things from a different angle, but even when they try to do that they still work within certain rules. 

I should probably just make a gif of it for myself, but my favourite visual for this is in 11x04… actually it’s 2am and I have the Sleep Madness so I’ll just do that… 

It’s such a wonderful image of the 2 of them, with Sam wearing red and Dean wearing blue, and top and tail like that. They’re 2 parts of a whole but they’re utterly different people and they’re often mirror images to each other in ways where when something applies to one, the direct opposite is shown in the other. 

(Sidebar: it’s why I’m so delighted that Sam was like blah blah Cas is family and then Dean was like you may be able to forget Cas but I can’t!!!!1 in 13x03… But on the other hand there are things where the nuances get lost and people make weird wrong assumptions like us having to endlessly prove Dean is the smart one because of the lingering first impression that doesn’t let anyone create any nuance after “sam went to college and dean didn’t”)

Anyway, setting up a straight man and comedy sidekick duo drops that all on Dean because from the first episode Sam’s all serious and has epic angst, while Dean tries to lighten the mood and clearly has the snarky sort of attitude that lends itself towards being the comedic one. Even when they make Dean angsty, Sam is serious and Dean big brother picks on him a bit sometimes (in a nice way) and teases him a lot - this is all broad strokes season 1 characterisation I’m talking about, really. But yeah, even if they go super deep or make Dean super angsty, he’s established as the character who can deal with it. And sometimes dealing with it is shouldering a cracky episode’s concept because they know his reactions are going to be easier to sell the thing.

The other thing is emotional POV and Dean’s largely established as the character who has that. Sam spends a lot of time unavailable as the emotional POV and Dean has shouldered entire SEASONS of it (season 6 especially where he was the ONLY viable emotional POV character for large chunks of it). Emotional POV is not really who the episode is ABOUT but what character is reacting to it and filtering how we should feel about a thing for us. In 6x03 when Cas wants to read the kid’s soul to get info, Dean steps in like wtf we don’t torture kids, but Sam and Cas outweigh him because utilitarian means to an end for the greater good blah blah. It makes it clear if we’d missed it that Dean is the only person whose judgement can be trusted until further notice. So until then, we always have to check in with Dean to get the read on a thing. 

Anyway because Dean is the emotional POV we cry and suffer along with him, but we also laugh along with him.

In 7x14 even when Sam gets a funny episode about him, the clowns aren’t really revealing anything about him - we knew about the clown fear since 2x02, it’s explored before the fight but largely for Dean’s benefit, and Sam getting the crap kicked out of him by clowns makes him a hilarious object for us - the fight scene is ridiculously funny but it IS just Sam having the snot beaten out of him while they come up with creative ways clowns would WRECK you in a fight. Dean gets an emotional showdown with the guy controlling the fears, and is the one who learns a lesson from it, while Sam had never really been set up for anything other than being the centre of attention of all the nonsense because it was really really funny that he was scared of clowns. It’s like the “the ball washer” “the what?” exchange explains Sam’s entire role in the episode. 

(Which was Dean doing big brother teasing but like the entire narrative decided to torture him :P)

And meanwhile when Dean gets the hilarious episodes which turn out to be really really painful, we get deep explorations of his psyche. 4x06 explores his hell trauma and reveals a lot about what he went through, and his fears about what Sam will become (LOVE THAT DABB EXPOSITION :D)… Idk about the old man Dean episode but he had some DEEP scenes with Bobby in it I seem to recall… I think @thejabberwock was probably giffing it recently and putting it on my dash for me to scroll past without really looking the moment I recognised what episode it was :P) but it was an episode that let them sort of relate to each other a bit better I think. Or Dean to feel for Bobby some more. Idk, I think there is a super important conversation between them? This is what happens when you put an episode on your “eeeeh skip it unless you’re being weirdly thorough” list :P

But yeah young!Dean was a massively important Dean episode exploring deep down in his character, but just delivered through silly moments about cake and Taylor Swift and complaining about puberty. Or the CAR THING with Sam where it’s a huge description of their relationship that Dean hops in the car seat even though he might not be old enough to even legally DRIVE her, and then Sam gets in the front seat and Dean just squishes him, hauling the seat forward for his tiny legs to reach the pedals. Like, Sam didn’t argue and it didn’t occur to Dean and they only swapped AFTER this bad dynamic caused a stupid mess and crushed Sam? Hello entire codependency metaphor :P 

(And I don’t think I need to explain 12x11 since it was so recent and so so awful about Dean D: Oh gosh, you could have just given us the Larry riding montage and no episode and that would have been enough :P)

Anyway as the emotional POV this stuff happens to Dean because changes to his self is the plot idea to help with stuff that’s to come or to explain things that already happened in the main plot, or really OTT situations they want for their own sake, that push the boundaries of his character but seem more to do with the main plot unfolding, make sense to explore through Dean, because his emotional landscape is often plot relevant, and the exploration even if it’s wrapped up in a silly concept, usually makes a lot more sense to apply to him because we already have a vast playground of his characterisation to mess around in. 10x12 and 12x11 especially were calling on everything about Dean. I think the writer even went on Twitter I guess when he was writing it and polled everyone on the most Dean-like things they could think of, and clearly got the answers “music, pie, car and girls” because those were the main metaphors of subverting Dean’s character that he offered.

I don’t think this is to reflect negatively on Sam - he gets some fascinating character stuff but connected to the main plot and not delving him in the same way Dean is delved (I think the imbalance and not understanding how they’re written can make people sad on Sam’s behalf he doesn’t get enough development in the same way Dean gets it, which is often by default when we care about character stuff over plot. I also think the writing falls into ruts of this which HAVE favoured Dean and his emotional arcs over Sam’s plot stuff). But Sam can get some incredible character stuff out of the plot things - I think Sam in Berens episodes is a great example because I’m still reeling from 13x03 and the stuff he said to Jack, because that’s all using the main plot to explore Sam - even if a lot of it was saying obvious stuff we knew about Sam, he doesn’t really say it too often and forcing him to say it out loud in episode THREE means the season is going to have to build on that or fail Sam (and he’s so wrapped up in what happens to Jack I can’t see his character stuff connected to that disappearing :P) 

But yeah, him being the “straight man” means that Dean is bouncing off him to be the funny one, and that really reflects on every level of the show, especially when you take humour and replace it with the emotional connection we have to the show in general and humour is just a great way to game that to get the reaction in a positive way, and Sam’s not the serious one so much as he’s dealing with the big stuff, usually, and that can wander off to all sorts of places like his habit of completely hammering down any other feelings to deal with the things that have to be done. Or to do the opposite of scaling up Dean, he can scale down to be the more serious one in a silly episode. Which doesn’t mean it doesn’t affect him - all the episodes where he had to deal with something happening to Dean that put him in charge it really messes him up. Or makes him really good at poker that one time :P 

…

Ah, my neighbours have stopped having a 4 way screaming match outside in the street, I’m going to stop typing and go to bed, so no tl;dr here… it’s turning 2am :D