#( elgar'nan / mythal )

[merrinla]

Dragon Age: The Veilguard – Exclusive First Hands-On Preview

[zaahvi]

a little breakdown of the new mural:

the context: this is part of a quest named "regrets of the dread wolf" in which rook uses a wolf statuette to "restore" this damaged mural in the lighthouse. it's referred to as a "regret" and seems to echo a memory linked to the events shown in the mural

"[Solas'] history, along with the history of the other elven gods, is baked into the Lighthouse, and you learn more and more about the threat you face as you unlock Solas' murals with various wolf statues. You even get to see some of his memories firsthand." [source with timestamp]

first, the imagery:

these "star" symbols are the same as on the "death of a titan" mural from trespasser, and even have similar halos. there are three visible in the circle here, which itself is cracked and there's a beam of light coming from above, sort of mirroring the titan mural:

it's interesting that the beam of light is coming from above, and is hitting the circle at the bottom, illuminating the outline; it seems like the light itself is what "cracked" the circle? there's also light shining from above, and elgar'nan is looking up at it, so... maybe it's the sun? the halos around the hands are also reminiscent of the left figure on the titan mural.

for triangle symbolism enjoyers... there are triangles around the light beam a little further up 👀

this is also our first look at mythal <3 she had dark hair and her headpiece is silver like flemeth's, a nice contrast to the golden crown elgar'nan has! they're like the sun and moon...

elgar'nan appears to have silver hair here, much lighter than the dark greyish he seems to have in-game. i'm thinking that either the blight darkened it, solas painted it differently, OR that the lighting that we've seen him in so far just hasn't shown off the colour properly. on his robes there is a sun pattern on his shoulder :) the bottom of the robes seem greenish and has patterns similar to the lyrium veins(?) on the titan mural above, and now that i look at them side by side... he kinda looks like the figure on the left, doesn't he?

solas with hair real!!! and he has his signature wolf pelt :) he's standing among some kneeling elves, and, notably, none of them have vallaslin.

these leafless trees - usually used as symbols of mythal - are almost framing the piece. the blue coming from the cracked circle is also interesting: solas rarely uses blue apart from his murals inside skyhold, so maybe it means something? it could be lyrium, or the titans' power?

the story:

remembering the context: this is one of solas' old memories, and a "regret" of his. looking at the imagery and pairing it with the dialogue seen, the events portrayed become clear:

Elgar'nan: They need strength. Mythal: And wisdom. Elgar'nan: They need gods who can protect them. Solas: We are not gods. You will learn that.

this is the evanuris first declaring themselves gods, seemingly after whatever war the elves fought; possibly with the titans, judging by the hints in these murals.

elgar'nan and mythal came first, which lines up with the dalish legends. i'm very curious if they were actually a couple or if they were just paired together in legends because they were the first gods (like how falon'din and dirthamen were paired as twin brothers in dalish tales but had no familial connection in elvhen lore). and from what they say... using "they" to refer to the elves rather than "you", implies this was a private conversation, which leads me to believe that they did originally intend to protect the elves. for instance, if they'd said "you need gods who can protect you", that's a whole other story which could be clearly interpreted as installing themselves as rulers in order to gain power and oppress the people. but this? the elves need strength, and wisdom, and protection? it's our first real clue that the evanuris were not always tyrannical, and that is just so interesting! i am very excited to see the story of how they became corrupted 👀

solas has an interesting line here also. using "we" instead of "you"... there's a popular theory that solas was a spirit of wisdom who was asked by mythal to join her, as implied by these lines from cole:

"He did not want a body. But she asked him to come. He left a scar when he burned her off his face." "Bare-faced but free, frolicking fighting, fierce. He wants to give wisdom, not orders."

so maybe solas was a general alongside the evanuris, and was clearly opposed to becoming a "god" like the rest of them. i find it interesting he doesn't have vallaslin on the mural here. the cole lines implied he had mythal's vallaslin, and i would've assumed he "burned it off" when he started his rebellion. the only thing i can think of is that the vallaslin may have originally acted as a spirit binding (like binding a spirit to a body) but if it could be removed then... idk.

finally, circling back that this is referred to as a "regret"... i suppose this is his regret of not having stopped them before everything that followed. and with regret mentioned as being one of the key themes of the game... aghh this is gonna be so good

[fenharellen]

is this anything

[felassan]

a post I wrote 8+ years ago.

"there is a Trespasser DLC bard song called Mercy for the Elves/Slightest Unite. it seems to sum up the situation elves in Thedas are in in the past, present and (potentially?) the future [....] Most of all I’m intrigued by  'Dalish father roams, Will the Dalish son survive the fight?' [...] Solas isn’t the only ancient elf, and a side effect of his plan may be lettting the trapped Evanuris back into the world. He says he has a plan to deal with that, and maybe it will work, but what if it doesn’t? He’s failed in his plans before [...] The Evanuris loosed upon the world again - what if it’s the All-Father doing the roaming? [...] Elgar’nan once again free and walking the earth, Elgar’nan with his [apparently] ferocious temper and destructive fury, Elgar’nan who’s said to wield fire and lightning. If he’s mad about having being locked up, and if he seeks to reclaim his former power and place of rule - would the patriarch god-king of [Elvhenan], which iirc once stretched across all of known Thedas as we know it, be content with reclaiming his former rule just over one part or people in Thedas? probably not. At any rate, the idea of facing off against Elgar’nan/some of the Evanuris in a future game.. they’d constitute the ��overarching big bad” like the Fifth Blight/Archdemon for the HoF, and Solas would be a secondary antagonist/’false flag villain’ that you can either kill on your way (or something) or in the process get him on your side/redeem (Loghain)/work with him. elgar’nan, fite me (ง’̀-‘́)ง and ok i really wanna meet and do battle with Elgar’nan.."

-

"ᴀʟʟ ᴛʜᴇ ᴡᴏʀʟᴅ ᴡɪʟʟ ꜱᴏᴏɴ ꜱʜᴀʀᴇ ᴛʜᴇ ᴘᴇᴀᴄᴇ ᴀɴᴅ ᴄᴏᴍꜰᴏʀᴛ ᴏꜰ ᴍʏ ʀᴇɪɢɴ"

👁️..

[vitaeplaysda]

ELGAR'NAN IS SILVER HAIRED?????????

Why all my faves end up being silver haired, evil and obsessed with killing the sun. (let's not forget I'm all those three things too. Was at least. I just bleach my hair now without the silver dye fkjngkdf) ALSO YES I NEED YOU DARLING COME HERE I also fear his hair is a lot shorter than what I draw them. Edit: I love how not even Solas knows how to paint his damn headdress. We share the suffering, love.

[vir-tanadahl]

BUT ALSO-- what spirits do you think each Evanuris was originally?

We know:

Mythal = Benevolence

Solas = Wisdom

Elgar'nan = Command? Emmrich also said Tyranny?

But for...

June = Creation? Innovation?

Ghilan'nain = Transformation? Curiosity? Exploration?

Sylaise = Devotion? Hearth?

Falon'din = Morality? Compassion?

Dirthamin = Truth? Curiosity?

Andruil = Valor?

Edit: I forgot Andruil. Fandom, please forgive me for my accidental participation in Andruil erasure . ALSO HOW THE FUCK DID I FORGET ANDRUIL WHEN MY USERNAME IS VIR-TANADAHL

[caffeinosis]

I don't know why people assume that Solas is one of the younger "gods", raised to their ranks like Ghilan'nain was, or had lower status than the others. I think he was there from the start and was instrumental in the war against the Titans and the lyrium mining and the new mural with Mythal and Elgar'nan seems to support it:

The wolf statue is in the way in this shot but there are three orbs with the same symbol here, the same one from the Titan mural. And he says "we are not gods". (I don't think that this mural depicts the beginning of his rebellion either. I think Mythal probably talks him into playing along with them).

Based on the Titan mural, Mythal destroyed the Titan(s) but he may have been the one who figured out how to channel the lyrium hearts into those orbs and that was what raised him from being just her sidekick/pet dog. Then they declared themselves gods to "protect" the people and it snowballed from there.

I think he was very complicit in all of this and that's why he's so suspiciously silent in the Descent or why he gets so pushy and insistent about whether Varric misses the Stone.

[robotslenderman]

Sudden thought: If Solas is playing an advisory role (as opposed to losing his shit at Rook for fucking shit up so epicly and having a tantrum) then he's basically going from being in a position of Pride to being in a position of Wisdom.

If Solas really is a spirit like Cole then that has interesting implications.

[tiafrye]

I've heard at least once that there's a theory of Mythal is being behind Wardens, Old God child ritual, Andraste, so on and so forth.

So... did anyone thought about that Mythal might be responsible for literally everything? And I mean everything, not just these parts. The entire thing.

Solas is not really good at succeeding in stuff. His plans basically fail every single time. Sure, the one time he does succeed it leads to a catastrophic event that changes the destiny of an entire race.

But what if the Veil plan actually worked because it was not his to begin with? Or very heavily inspired by whispers of a vengeful spirit.

In the lore Mythal is said to be an avatar of justice. And we all know what happened to a certain spirit of Justice once it possessed a victim of abuse. It became Vengeance and their combined reckoning did "shook the very heavens". DAO tells about how the vessel of Mythal is influencing the course of the Fifth Blight, rule-altering secrets about Wardens and corrupted Old Gods. DA2 presents the consequences of executing vengeance. DAI dives deep into the origins of the Veil and the culprit behind it. To whom Mythal quite willingly gives in when the moment is right. The old hag knows that Solas will fail once again. And that failure will bring her the needed target from a very convenient blight fridge it was rotting inside of, until the time was right. She knows that this failure will bring husband-dear right into her timeline where she can finally deliver her reckoning to him by her own hand.

That would've been... oof.

[solasyoulittleshit]

friend texted me this earlier (they are red, I'm teal)

I know everything about Andruil's identity is up for debate and even if The Veilguard is an anagram for Evil Daughter it could mean something else

what does everybody think?

Is the title "The Veilguard" an anagram

[higheverweave]

Im waiting for DA 4 because I cant wait for Elgarnan to realize Mythal survived and have to come to terms with My wife knows I tried to Gank her

[zaahvi]

7 days to go so have a silly lil meme to celebrate

// original:

[aurulauraart]

Veiltober Days 14 and 15: Mythal and Elgar’nan

-

I decided to combine these two prompts. I studied the few symbolic representations of these two characters we have seen in the games/promotional material for datv. I am so interested in the full story of the Evanuris, the game cannot come out soon enough!

[emmg]

Fuck it

I’m writing it

Elgar’nan x Lavellan multi-chapter darkfic letsgo

[nadas-dirthalen]

I Saw Solas's Origin in an Achievement Icon and It Opened My Eyes on 15 Years of Lore

— PART FIVE: if you haven't read previous parts, do it now! —

[ 1 ] [ 2 ] [ 3 ] [ 4 ] [ 6 ] [ 7 ] [ 8 ] [ 9 ] [ 10 ]

Welcome, friends and travelers! I wanted to get some thoughts recorded before Veilguard's release so I could see if I am right about an absolute BOATLOAD of theories I have.

In short: I saw the achievement list when it was released. I have seen the backstory hints for Solas included in said list. AND MY MIND WAS BLOWN.

You have been warned: THIS COLLECTION OF THEORIES INCLUDES SPOILERS FOR EVERY DRAGON AGE GAME AND ALL PROMOTIONAL MATERIAL UP TO AND INCLUDING OCTOBER 18, 2024.

Come sit down with me. Make a nice cup of tea (and hide it from Solas). We've got a lot of unpacking to do.

(no, this photo isn't the spoiler, I just like it.)

Today's Discussion: the Tragedy of the Evanuris (1/3)

— Beings Made, Souls Sundered, Hearts Blackened —

Welcome back! As always, please please please go read the earlier instalments of this series before reading this one. I don't have the space in every post to reiterate all relevant context, and I fear I'll leave people feeling lost if they jump in on this one.

Okay? Okay.

So: we've unearthed that Solas came from lyrium (probably). That Titans are the Forgotten ones; that the Maker is likely a Titan. That Titans were sundered, and the Fade is their (currently sundered) consciousness that once drifted freely over the world like wind. That all magic is one thing, and only looks like two schools because one pulls from the Titans' consciousness, and the other pulls from their physical bodies. That in the Chant of Light, at least some of the Evanuris are the Maker's first children, and they sought to conquer the earth.

Today, we'll go over what I think that means for all of them. Where I believe each Evanuris truly came from, what each of them did to wreak havoc upon the world and the Titans, and what I think could happen in Veilguard.

I do not have a chronology of the Evanuris's existence, though. Their history still reads something like, "the Evanuris were born/made -> ??? the everything??? every crime they did??? -> the Evanuris were trapped by Solas" in my brain. Therefore, I'll be splitting the topics up into each of the Evanuris, not an attempt at cataloguing their history linearly.

Mythal and Lyrium Coffins

Elgar'nan and Sundered Beings

Falon'Din and Blackened Hearts

Mythal and Lyrium Coffins

I'm going to make no attempt to guess how Mythal came into being herself, only that she is one of the Maker's first children and that Dalish legend says she rose from the sea (the emerald waters, perhaps). It's what she has done in the time since that interests me.

Starting off strong: this is the reason we're all here. This is the reason I've been inspired to write this post in the first place. The revelation that shook my brain: that it was Mythal who did not just ask Solas to manifest into a body, but who mined him from a Titan.

One reason I put Mythal first is that, with what little I understand of the chronology, I believe that her actions of mining people from the Titans came before the others', simply because the act of making people must come before the horrible acts that were later done to those people by the other Evanuris.

It seems like Mythal's crime (because yeah, I'm going to call "mining spirits from lyrium and putting them into corporeal bodies without their enthusiastic consent and then putting her vallaslin on their faces" a crime) is the foundation upon which all the others' happens. This is how the Evanuris built their empires, it seems: by warring with the Titans and creating the elvhen out of the spoils of that war.

It has massive implications for the elvhen people and their elven descendants. It has implications for the world of spirits, both lyrium- and Fade-based. Regardless of if Mythal eventually became the "sole voice of Reason" that Solas claims she was before she was murdered, the point is that the Evanuris's crimes all stem from Mythal's own.

Remember that she, too, was holding up a golden orb with Elgar'nan. She, too, was naming herself a false god.

The other reason I've included Mythal first is that this is our first concrete confirmation that there is a direct relation between the actions of the Evanuris and the vallaslin we can choose as players. They could not have been more obvious with this one: Mythal's vallaslin are the shape of Solas's original body, and likely the same shape as the other countless people she mined from lyrium. This means we can examine the other Evanuris's vallaslin for clues about their deeds during their reign as the elven gods.

Let's begin taking a look at the rest of the pantheon. First: if Mythal made the first elvhen, what did her counterpart, Elgar'nan, do?

Elgar'nan and Sundered Beings

Elgar'nan's origin seems to be different from Mythal's. The sun, in Dalish legend, is often associated with dragons. Elgar'nan was supposedly born from a union between the sun and the earth, in the place where they touched. My hypothesis is that Elgar'nan is the product of dragonfire wounding a Titan, and Elgar'nan breaking off from said Titan as a result. This is only a guess, and is not what I want to focus on. Instead, I want to turn our collective attention to his deeds, as they are more important for the story of the Evanuris.

We now understand that the Evanuris mined Titans to create their followers, the elvhen. This is the first crime of the Evanuris, done by Mythal. It gave way to all the others. To understand this, let us look at Mythal and Elgar'nan's first "children."

Dirthamen and Falon’Din are linked in Dalish legend as inseparable twin brothers. Scraps of elven stories from after the fall of Arlathan—transcribed into Tevinter and recently lent to our fair University—refer to them as “twin souls” but draw no family connection. The oldest stories never even name them directly, referring to Falon’Din as “Dirthamen’s shadow,” and Dirthamen as “Falon’Din’s reflection.” The little we understand implies their bond was not romantic, beyond even the strongest friendship. The legends of Dirthamen and Falon’Din may have been an allegory for complex elven relationships we lack context to comprehend.

For a long time, I wondered what this relationship could be. But once I'd seen for certain that Mythal mined bodies from Titans—and once I pieced together that these bodies and spirits are intricately related, as lyrium stores thought and memory in a physical container—I knew the implications behind "twin souls."

I then referred to Dalish legend. Now, one must remember not to read Dalish legend literally, just like with the Chant of Light. The Sun may be referred to as Elgar'nan's father, but I posit that the Sun is just another of Thedas's magical forces: dragons, or anything relating to fire and the draconic.

From the wiki:

According to elven legend, the sun grew jealous of the favor shown by Elgar'nan for the things of the earth, and so burned them to ashes. In retaliation, Elgar'nan threw the sun down from the sky, and only later relented because of Mythal's intervention. He was convinced, with her help, to restore his father to the sky on the promise that the sun would set each night.

Dalish legend is full of symbols, but if we read this through that lens, then Elgar'nan threw down a powerful being—whether a dragon or a powerful spirit associated with fire (rage demon, anyone?)—into the abyss.

To get an idea of what happened down there, I turned to a codex found in the Deep Roads in Trespasser.

What were the ancient elves doing down here? Mining? Where were the dwarves? Easier to have them mine it. Not a trading post. You don't go into a friend's home, knock over their gods, and put up your own. War? I don't remember any legends about our people fighting the dwarves. Though I remember my Keeper telling a story about how the dwarves fear the sun because of Elgar'nan's fire. A metaphor for the elves of Arlathan driving the dwarves underground?

Remember that ancient elvhen mining looked a lot like creating people. And whatever Elgar'nan did down here, it put lasting fear into the dwarves.

The legend says that Elgar'nan then released the sun into the sky, after Mythal's intervention. Note that this area of the Deep Roads is where Mythal's lyrium coffins are found. And after Mythal intervened and Elgar'nan released that "Sun" he'd thrown down?

And that night, when the sun had gone to sleep, Mythal gathered the glowing earth around his bed, and formed it into a sphere to be placed in the sky, a pale reflection of the sun's true glory.

Mythal released another being, out of the wreckage of what Elgar'nan had done. A reflection of that "Sun." Noting that Dirthamen is referred to as "Falon'Din's Reflection," I think that gives us insight into Elgar'nan's actions during the reign of the Evanuris: the ones that would make someone like Solas feel seething hatred for him, enough to call the Evanuris his "mortal enemies."

And his vallaslin perfectly illustrate that: the complex version of the Elgar'nan vallaslin, pictured above, shows a face split in half. One half is painted in the inverse colours of the other, showing a perfect divide between two things. One side, a reflection; the other, more coloured in, is effectively a shadow of the other.

And the achievement icon I've placed next to it confirms my theory: Elgar'nan is holding up a moon in the memory titled, "Our Mistake." (Why this is not the sun, I can only guess. Ease of illustration, maybe?)

But the question remains: what did Dirthamen and Falon'Din then do that would earn them places in the same evil pantheon?

Falon'Din and Blackened Hearts

We know that vallaslin tell stories, so right away, I'll direct you to look at Falon'Din's. We can see what looks like roots and branches, with an orb of some kind in the center. When I first started playing Dragon Age (March of this year, can you believe), I associated that with some Tree of Life imagery, with a focus on the roots and (ostensibly) Death. Makes sense, right?

But look at the image from Memory #3: Blackened Hearts right next to it. That is the heart of a Titan, swathed in shadowy tendrils, with a lot of undead-looking hands reaching toward it.

Suddenly, I am seeing a Titan's heart in the middle of my Rook's forehead. The Rook I made in August.

I think there's still more to unearth. Let's look at what Solas says about Falon'Din in the Temple of Mythal:

"I do not believe they sing songs about Falon'Din's vanity. It is said Falon'Din's appetite for adulation was so great, he began wars to amass more worshippers. The blood of those who wouldn't bow low filled lakes as wide as oceans. Mythal rallied the gods, once the shadow of Falon'Din's hunger stretched across her own people. It was almost too late. Falon'Din only surrendered when his brethren bloodied him in his own temple."

"He began wars to amass more worshippers" has caught my attention, now, in a new way. We know now that the Evanuris didn't amass all their following through matters of persuasion. In fact, they made their own followings, harvesting them from Titans.

"The blood of those who wouldn't bow low filled lakes as wide as oceans." Before, I might have read that as killing so many people that their blood would fill an ocean. But even for Solas, even for the Evanuris, that seems like an exaggeration. Now I ask: were the lakes as wide as oceans already there, deep underground? Did the Titans' blood flow into them as Falon'Din waged his wars?

And, finally, "the shadow of Falon'Din's hunger stretched across [Mythal's] own people." Now, we know that that does not just mean Mythal's faithful, or her friends. It means the people that Mythal was making—a group which Solas belongs to. I'm beginning to see why he'd hate Falon'Din so viscerally.

But what was Falon'Din's goal, really?

The People swore their lives to Falon'Din Who mastered the dark that lies. Whose shadows hunger Whose faithful sing Whose wings of death surround him Thick as night. Lethanavir, master-scryer, be our guide, Through shapeless worlds and airless skies.

The Chant oft refers to a number of opposites. Earth and Sky, yes, but also Darkness and Light—also referring to the Abyss and the Fade. If we imagine that Falon'Din has mastered this darkness, and that the singer of this song suggests that the darkness lies, it may be that Falon'Din was anti-Titan in general. "Wings of death" surrounding him may refer to dragons, as "Winged Death" does in the case of Elgar'nan's codices. After, we come to the final stanza: "Lethanavir, master-scryer, be our guide / Through shapeless worlds and airless skies."

Keeping with the Earth/Sky metaphor, I am wondering if Falon'Din wanted an end to everything Titan-related to get rid of magic entirely: both Earth and Sky.

I wonder if what he accomplished was not killing the Titans, though, but "blackening their hearts." We already know that the Forgotten Ones are beings of "malice, terror, spite, and pestilence." They have names remarkably similar to demons. Perhaps, in trying to kill them, Falon'Din turned them from benevolent beings to these twisted opposite qualities.

If that is the case, it has major implications for the Evanuris later in this series. Not only that, but major implications for the world of Thedas at large. Once these Titans' hearts were blackened, what horrors began to befall Ancient Elvhenan?

What went so wrong that Solas sundered all the Titans' minds from their bodies in order to stop catastrophe?

---

As ever, if you got this far, thank you!! I look forward to reading any additions or questions people might have, as ever!!

Also: I am trying my hardest not to consume full-game-review spoilers! As these reviews have just gone live a few hours ago (10/28), I am not reading my notifications/replies, and am appearing here only to continue posting my theories.

But if you feel like sticking around anyway, stay tuned for: The Tragedy of the Evanuris pt. 2: Horrors Enacted Upon the Faithful.