#'victim blames real life abuse survivors because of how they view fictional characters'

[something-about-sunflowers]

hiii i don't really go here except in a super secondhand way and therefore i don't have an opinion on this as discourse, i just wanted to point out specifically that the framing of "it speaks volumes of ur opinion of ed that you think he could be hurt in this way + that he couldn't easily remove someone attempting to abuse him from his life" in ur post feels kind of like it's victim-blaming irl survivors of abuse, or at least has a negative view of them in situations where it isn't that simple. this probably comes down to wording, but i just wanted to mention it because it made me uncomfortable!

Alright, so I'm going to assume this is in good faith, because it really does my head in worrying that every dissenting ask I get relating to an opinion I have about or around Izzy Hands is someone intentionally reading what I'm saying in the worst faith imaginable. I do have to say though, Anon, this is very much a 'you say you like pancakes so that means you hate waffles' kind of interpretation of what I was saying.

Prefacing that, if I come across as aggressive, it's not my intent. I'm just trying to be frank and sometimes that can read as aggression over text.

So, first. What I said really says nothing to how I view real life survivors of abuse because I am not talking about real life survivors of abuse. I am talking about fictional characters. One, specifically, that I do not interpret as - currently - experiencing abuse.

Second, I'm speaking to Izzy's inability to enact abuse towards Ed, by way of the interpretation of him by the very same people who think he is abusing him. I don't believe he's capable of it for a number of reasons but some of the same people who spout the 'Izzy is Ed's abuser' *ahem* 'meta' also - incongruously - seem to view him as incredibly incompetent in everything he does, except where it can fuel their agenda. 'It speaks to how you view Ed' because the belief that Izzy is otherwise genuinely incompetent, yet somehow still able to hold this power over Ed, denigrates Ed's own competency.

Third, this isn't a 'situation where it's less simple' because it's not abuse. Abuse necessitates a power imbalance in the favor of the person - supposedly, in this case - doing the abusing, otherwise it's just an unhealthy/toxic relationship. I have the utmost sympathy for people in abusive relationships and in unhealthy/toxic relationships but they are not the same. Ed has the social and professional power over Izzy in their relationship. Ed is, textually, better at manipulating Izzy than Izzy is at manipulating Ed.

If you took away all of Izzy's negative interactions with Ed, Ed would be Izzy's abuser. If you took away all of Ed's negative interactions with Izzy, Izzy still wouldn't be Ed's abuser because he's not in a position of power over Ed. Keeping them both the way they are, they're mutually toxic towards one another.

Perhaps it is an issue with my wording, perhaps it's an issue with our individual interpretations of the characters, perhaps it's just that you don't know me and assumptions make asses out of us all. Or maybe I was wrong in assuming good faith and you're really just trying to levy social justice language at me a la 'abuse apologist' in an attempt to keep me silent, like the Izzy Canyon's favorite little bastard Anon. I'd like to think it's not that though.

That said, if what I say makes you uncomfortable, either my original post or my clarification here, by all means - for your own sake - go ahead and block me. I do not intend to cause discomfort with the things I say and/or the way I say them but I simply do not have the time or the energy to carefully word my posts so that they cater to every possible interpretation of them.

I am more than willing to offer explanations or clarifications where someone might ask but, frankly, I cannot, will not, and should not have to preempt every potential read - bad faith or not.

[aggressive-positivity-network]

you making up an entire fictional character and an entire fictional life backstory for them just to speak over actual real life abuse survivors telling you why you're being harmful and wrong, just to give yourself a reason to pretend you're moral and "helping" victims when in fact you are harming them irreparably by absolving abusers of blame and instead blaming authors of fanfiction writing fucking ships on a tv show for when kids get hurt is fucking disgusting!!! maybe stop<33333

Oh, you mean my view on pedophilic, non-con, and incest content! Yes, I do believe that people should use common sense while shipping. It’s a very complicated issue, and I still need to think a bit more before going back into that discourse.

What I used in my last post was a metaphor, and while it is technically fictional, I wouldn’t say it was meant to represent anyone. It’s more symbolism, if you think about it. But, you’re right, it’s a pretty good book idea. How does the title “Going Bananas” strike you? Eh, it might be too silly a title for such a serious book. “Peel Back” maybe? I’m still thinking about it.

But my last post wasn’t meant to talk over anyone, or excuse any criminals! Quite the contrary. I was simply using a fake scenario to illustrate how misleading percentages can be. That could be used in any instance where people were relying too heavily on statistics without giving them proper analysis.

I would never advocate for trans criminals, unless they were wrongly accused. However, I do support trans people as a whole. I would never assume that they were dangerous because of a simple label that a person could not change.

I also never claimed to be helping victims with my illustration. I do want to help victims from all kinds of backgrounds, like Nina Grey, Nysia Armstead, and Joslyn Allen. However, the way that I help people is through my asks always being open and dispelling any misinformation surrounding an issue. I don’t get angry at people or curse at them. I used to, but I’m happy to say I’ve grown since then. I hope you’ll grow as well - for the better.

Take care of yourself. And please don’t stay angry for too long after you read this, if you do get angry. It isn’t good for you. I suggest either knitting or playing an instrument. That always helps me calm down.

[stagekiller]

“Those who grant sympathy to guilt, grant none to innocence.”  ―  Ayn Rand  

  To cut a long story short, we could conclude that clownman grew up in a toxic environment. And as much as I hate to make him sound like a victim, he...was a victim of circumstance. So, today, we delve into Jerome’s feelings in regards to his past.

  Before I begin, I would like to declare that I am very much opposed to any fandom interpretations of his character that present him as a ‘poor wittle baby whose mommy didn’t love him yadayadayada’. This is watering down the character. It’s Bonnie & Clyde syndrome. And my goal in this post is NOT to make you sympathize with him, hence the quote.

  Second, small disclaimer; these are fictional characters in a fictional settings. Though it may bare resemblance to things that happen in real life, I, as the mun, by no means condone any actions described.

TRIGGER WARNINGS: child abuse, corporal punishment, incest, gaslighting, spoilers

  Throughout this post I will be making references to Arthur Phleck, so consider it a spoiler zone for JOKER(2019). These references are mostly used as comparisons in regards to ‘The Joker’s essence and how the victim mentality comes into play in all different iterations of this DC villain, establishing victim-play as a character trait.

PART ONE : ONCE BITTEN, TWICE SHY

 To begin with, I want to delve into how Jerome himself sees his childhood, how he feels about these past events and how he chooses to present them to others.

  Jerome is someone who hates vulnerability. He is not one to open up or be vulnerable around others where it counts. That is a symptom, or rather, a consequence, of the abuse he has suffered. Child abuse survivors often have severe trust issues, because the people they were supposed to trust (their family) have betrayed them in some shape or form. For example, if a parent baits their child to confess a naughty thing (”If you tell me, I won’t ground you.”) they did and then punishes them after confessing, it is very likely that this child will be more hesitant to confess the next time. After enough repetition, the child may start suspecting other adults of similar behavior. The foundation for a cognitive structure has been laid; “If I trust people with information, they may use it against me.”

  According to Mary Ainsworth, the bond between mother and infant is the most important because the child will then base their future attachments on that prototype. In an oversimplification, parents teach us how to bond with other people, among other things. They are responsible for teaching us how to behave socially and how to interact with others. Furthermore, research has shown that children with depressed mothers are more likely to develop conduct disorders, due to the lack of proper interaction and stimuli at an early age.

 PART TWO: THESE HUMBLE BEGINNINGS

   Now, to put all these things into perspective, in my headcanon, Lila Valeska was very much a depressed mother. A depressed alcoholic, to be exact. A broken woman, looking for self esteem in any embrace that would be offered to her. And, because of that,s he was completely incapable to equip Jerome and Jeremiah with the social skills they needed. She never intended to abuse them. And she wasn’t evil. She just wasn’t enough.

   But the problem only begins with Lila. Zachary Trundle very much played the part of her controlling older brother. We can actually see that he was rather controlling in canon, telling her what to do with her kids ( note how Zach told her to throw Jerome in the river but Lila still kept him around ) and being in charge of moving Jeremiah when the time came. We can conclude that Zachary played the part of a father, a brother and potentially a husband substitute as well.

  And it was Zachary who molded Jerome into what he became later on. But... more on their relationship on a later post. ;3c

 Last, but not least, let’s not forget about Paul Cicero, who not only wasn’t there to console Jerome but also gaslighted him. ( “The world doesn’t care about you” ) He tried to instill the core belief in him that he was unworthy and he should just suck it up. And what that does to kids is usually make them think that they deserve the abuse and not try to escape from it. In Jerome’s case, it also resulted in him abusing himself later on. Because when this kind of situation has been NORMALIZED for you, anything other than pain feels abnormal and weird. Jerome would not know how to react to healthy relationships.

PART THREE: ONE IN EVERY DECK

  “Playing the victim role: Manipulator portrays him- or herself as a victim of circumstance or of someone else's behavior in order to gain pity, sympathy or evoke compassion and thereby get something from another. Caring and conscientious people cannot stand to see anyone suffering and the manipulator often finds it easy to play on sympathy to get cooperation.”    ―  George K. Simon Jr.,  In Sheep's Clothing: Understanding and Dealing with Manipulative People    

  All iterations of the Joker have a tragic backstory. Most DC Villains do, as a matter of fact. But how they deal with it differs from one iteration to another. For example, Ledger Joker uses different versions of a tragic backstory to either disturb or gain sympathy from his victims, or to make a point ( ‘you wanna know how I got these scars?’ ). Nicholson Joker uses his tragic backstory as feud fuel and victim cards to pin his misery on Batman. BTAs Joker is shown using some tragic backstory to sway Dr. Quinzel, but later on in the Mad Love episode we see that he’s used the same victim card on Batman too.

  But Phoenix Joker is by far the most compelled to play victim cards. The difference with previous iterations is that Phleck Joker sees himself as the victim too. I’m not saying that the others didn’t, to some extent. But Arthur is immersed in the part. He thinks of himself as a mentally ill loner. He doesn’t just use the victimhood card in a manipulative fashion. He actually experiences emotion over it. That is a much more realistic interpretation of what has come to be known as the serial killer victim complex.

  I’ve dropped a link to a video of a real life criminal talking about himself and his past actions in a very similar way to Arthur Phleck, here. Please view at your own discretion, it does contain disturbing material.

    So how does Jerome view the things that happened in his childhood?

  On the show, Jerome uses victim cards in a similar fashion to previous Joker iterations. “ With Uncle Zach, the beatings never stopped...they went on and on, and yet...nobody ever helped me... ” He tells Bruce. For a moment, we see him performing an emotion. But it is shallow. And that is because, as I mentioned above, Jerome hates vulnerability. So, to me, he is somewhat of a combination between Phleck and the previous Jokers.

  He will use his tragic backstory for pity points when it is convenient. But does he actually see himself as a victim? No. Because that would contradict his prideful nature! A victim is weak, puny, abused and broken. Jerome can’t be those things, because seeing himself as such would be an ego collapse. Jerome sees his life as a movie. Another soap opera. He removes himself from the reality of the situation. There is a ‘that’s life’ mentality in that too. There’s a ‘my life is a comedy’ mentality in that too. But, unlike Phleck, Jerome doesn’t feel bitter about it anymore.

   Even when referencing how he killed Lila to Jim Gordon, or complaining to Jeremiah for abandoning him, the emotional aspect lasts for a minute. Then he starts laughing and making jokes about it. It’s like he wants to distance himself from the reality of the situation. And that’s why he doesn’t use the victim cards in most situations too. Because they would make him look weak and small. And he’s not pathetic like that.

  For example, he wouldn’t start talking about his tragic backstory just to sleep with some cult girl. These tactics are RESERVED for very special individuals, like Bruce Wayne and his brother. He would use this kind of thing against people he knows are emotional or bonded with him to some extend. That’s why he doesn’t do it to Jimbo, for example, because he knows Jimbo isn’t as openly compassionate as Bruce, who would feel sorry for him and want to help him.

   TO CONCLUDE: Once again my post got huge and if you made it this far, thank you for reading :D I hope I conveyed the general picture adequately to you!

To those who abuse: the sin is yours, the crime is yours, and the shame is yours. To those who protect the perpetrators: blaming the victims only masks the evil within, making you as guilty as those who abuse. Stand up for the innocent or go down with the rest.”   — Flora Jessop, Church of Lies

[scripttorture]

Torture in Fiction: The Dragon Prince

The Dragon Prince is a wonderfully written and beautifully animated cartoon. I don’t usually take on a whole series but I was interested in the pitch and have fond memories of Avatar: The Last Airbender. I was curious to see what the creators had come up with since.

And overall I really enjoyed it. The characters are engaging and the plot is an interesting twist on a lot of typical fantasy tropes. (It also helped that this is the first time I’ve seen an animated character sign.)

The review contains spoilers for the entire season (1) of this cartoon.

After humans started using dark magic, magic drawn from destroying naturally magical creatures, an alliance of elves and dragons drove them to the western side of the continent. In the war that follows humans killed the dragon king and destroyed his egg.

Years later a group of elves sneak into the human kingdom, determined to assassinate the king and his son in revenge. Rayla, the youngest of the assassins, discovers that the egg is intact and alive. With the human princes, Ezran and Callum, she sets out to return the egg, the titular Dragon Prince, to his home.

But once again I’m rating the depiction and use of torture, not the story itself. I’m trying to take into account realism (regardless of fantasy or sci fi elements), presence of any apologist arguments, stereotypes and the narrative treatment of victims and torturers.

Which means I’m not focusing on the main characters or their plot line here. Instead this review is going to focus mostly on three side characters: Runaan, the leader of the elven assassins who kills the human king, Viren, a dark mage and the king’s advisor who takes over the country on the king’s death and Gren a guardsman loyal to Ezran and Callum’s Aunt.

Viren chooses to have Runaan kept alive and imprisons him in a stone cell. He’s chained in a seated position with his hands raised above his head. Viren attempts to bribe and threaten Runaan into revealing information about a magical artifact. Runaan refuses and in retaliation Viren casts a spell imprisoning Runaan’s essence in a coin.

As Viren tries to consolidate power he clashes with the princes’ aunt, a military commander who insists the boys are alive and should be searched for. Viren manipulates her into returning to the front lines but not before she leaves Gren in charge of searching for the missing princes.

Viren has Gren imprisoned. He’s chained in a standing position with his hands kept level with his head.

I’m giving it 2/10

The Good

1) Torture and the threat of torture is used in the context of interrogation but the story shows it failing. Runaan rejects every request for information Viren makes. He also rejects every 'olive branch' Viren extends.

2) Torture isn’t shown changing or even mildly influencing Runaan’s strongly held beliefs. If anything the story shows Runaan’s anti-human stance becoming more entrenched in response to torture.

3) Viren’s motivation for imprisoning and torturing both Runaan and Gren is quite in keeping with reality. Runaan is an enemy soldier. Gren is loyal to the old regime that Viren is actively trying to replace. This makes both of them political enemies, treated as threats to the new regime’s security. That’s incredibly true to life.

4) The timing of Viren’s bribes also felt like a good point to me. Runaan is captured and abused and then Viren attempts to bribe him into cooperation. First he uses food and drink, then he uses the offer of freedom. I don’t know whether it was intentional or not but I liked this element because it supports the notion of Runaan’s opposition becoming firmer as he’s mistreated.

5) I enjoyed Viren’s general characterisation throughout this and the way he justifies his actions. He presents himself as a ‘pragmatist’. He says he’s willing to make the ‘tough choices’ for the good of others and the Kingdom. That’s the kind of torture apologia torturers often parrot.

6) And that view doesn’t go unchallenged in the story. Other characters point out that Viren’s actions mostly benefit himself. His cruelty and his so-called ‘pragmatic’ lack of morals are presented as causing bigger problems than they solve. Together it creates a really good, succinct and understandable portrait of a torturer. It shows him parroting typical torture apologia and it shows why those views are wrong.

The Bad

Both Runaan and Gren should be dead several times over.

The portrayal of stress positions here is frankly appalling. It's difficult to be exactly sure about the passage of time in the story but Runaan is kept with his hands chained above his head for at least a week. Gren is kept standing for days.

Stress positions kill after about 48 hours.

In this case, neither character is depicting as suffering due to the way they're restrained.

Runaan is shown suffering but this is visually and narrative linked to other things. He's bruised because he was beaten when he was captured. His arm is withering due to a curse. He's weak because he's refusing to eat and drink (which should also have killed him, however I’m willing to give that more leeway in a non-human character). But the stress position he's kept in isn't depicted as fundamentally harmful.

This is more or less repeated with Gren. He isn't shown refusing food or drink and he wasn't beaten when captured. His posture in his chains is relaxed. He shows no signs of pain or discomfort. He leans against the wall and whistles. His movement, colouration, coherency and memory all seem to be completely unaffected.

Stress positions are incredibly harmful. They are painful. They cause wide scale break down of muscles in the victim’s body. This initially leads to a build up of fluid in the extremities. Which causes painful, discoloured swelling in the limbs, sometimes to the point that the skin ruptures into blisters. As more muscles are destroyed the protein released into the bloodstream becomes too much for the kidneys to handle and they fail. One description I read described the kidney’s being turned into ‘swiss cheese’.

The result is a protracted, painful death that can occur a significant period of time after the victim is released from the stress position.

The fact that it’s a stress position singled out as a ‘harmless’ torture is extremely significant here.

This is a torture that generally doesn’t leave lasting marks. It’s a torture that’s common in the modern world. And we unfortunately live in a world where torture trials often hinge on the presence or absence of ‘physical proof’.

Scars.

Survivors are regularly dismissed and belittled because they were tortured in ways that didn’t leave obvious marks on their skin. Because their torturers used techniques like stress positions.

Showing these tortures as harmless backs up the societal view that these tortures don’t ‘count’. That the pain these victims experienced was not real and they don’t deserve our help or compassion.

It backs up the notion that these particular victims are to blame for what they suffered.

These aren’t obscure philosophical notions or debates. These tropes, these patterns, these arguments affect our treatment of torture and torture survivors now.

They are part of the social structures that deny torture survivors asylum. They are part of the reason it takes survivors an average of ten years to access specialist treatment.

Presenting these apologist views uncritically to young children isn’t neutral either.

Because even without taking into account parental blockers on internet searches accurate information on torture is incredibly difficult to find. Any curious viewer, of any age, who watches these scenes and searches for more information would come across more torture apologia long before they find research on torture.

Especially as they may not even link what they saw to torture.

A casual viewer would first need to make that link. Then be aware of the term ‘stress position’. Then be aware of the academic journals or niche authors who publish on these topics. And then have access to enough money to pay for those sources.

Some of the sources are not available in translation.

The result is that the overwhelming majority of viewers are likely to accept what they see: that stress positions cause no harm.

These details are small. They don’t get a lot of screen time. They’re unimportant to the plot.

But they are not neutral. They matter.

The way the different ideas at play here interact matters. As does their impact on the real world.

And as a result, despite many good points in the portrayal of torture, I feel like I have to give The Dragon Prince a low score.

Overall

Part of the reason I wanted to review this was to highlight how prevalent torture is in children’s media and how cartoons are often sending out the same misinformation as adult action movies.

The Dragon Prince doesn’t suggest that torture works and it doesn’t justify brutality. But at the same time it’s downplaying the damage torture causes by treating some tortures as essentially harmless. It’s telling that the tortures singled out this way are clean tortures common in the modern day.

The tortures that victims are commonly subject to now, the ones that don’t leave lasting marks, are the ones being singled out as harmless. As not ‘proper’ torture.

The message that only some tortures and only some victims ‘count’ starts young. And the sad thing is the people creating this, writing it and drawing it probably had no idea they were portraying torture when they chose to have characters chained to the wall.

The background knowledge most people have on torture is poor, made up of apologist tropes and rumours and misinformation. But it is so widely accepted that it probably doesn't even occur to most creators to fact-check what they write.

And the result in this case is a wonderfully made cartoon, which includes fantastic representation of disability, of racial diversity and women. While parroting tropes about torture that are actively harmful to victims.

Edit: If creators are not prepared to show the effects of torture then they should not use torture. If those effects are unsuitable for a children’s show then I’m left wondering why they included torture.

Personally, given the level of research these particular creators lavished on other areas, I suspect this was ignorance not malice. 

Disclaimer

[gay-jewish-bucky]

I think you've misinterpreted what I'm saying. My criticisms of this show have nothing to do with Sebastian and everything to do with the MCU itself. The Stan Lee comment is not to dig as Sebastian for being contractually obligated, it's a dig at the MCU for deciding to narratively frame Bucky as a villain as soon as Stan died in 2018. They'd started on that path back during Civil War, Bucky loosing his arm and going back into cryo was intended by the creators to be a punishment.

They knew that this story would have a social impact, after saying Bucky has to make amends because he can't "hide behind his lack of control" they had the gal to say they hope trauma survivors would feel represented by their victim blaming narrative. They could have done a really powerful arc about recovery and survivors guilt but they didn't because his trauma is a burden to them and they cannot reconcile Bucky's canon lack of autonomy and abuse with their narrow views of masculinity. They stripped the character of many traits that made people love him in the first place and replaced them with a character he never was.

It being fiction does not change the fact that many professionals in the field of psychology spoke out about how harmful Bucky's storyline is to real life people. This show frames the horrible stigma trauma survivors face as good and right and that has had a negative impact I've witnessed first hand.

mcu: we have healed bucky of his trauma

us: you fucked with perfectly good character is what you did. look at him. you made him seem culpable for the horrors he faced over decades as a pow and then stripped him of any of his actual support systems and expect us to believe he is suddenly happy and everything is fine because he smiled at a bbq.

[scripttorture]

In my current WIP set in a dystopic near future, I have a young rebel leader being tortured by the authorities in order to make a public statement discrediting the rebel movement. She is saved after some days of torture in prison. I intend for her to be even (a lot!) more determined than before and to slowly turn into an extremist, who herself would not refrain from hurting (and torturing) people she considers „the other side“. (1/2)

As I love your blog and your differentiated opinion: Would that turn of events be appropriate? And, additionally: how likely would other people, also tortured / „oppressed“ by the system be to support her violent ways? (2/2)

This definitely does happen in real life.

 I’d hesitate to call it a ‘likely’ outcome but it is certainly apossible one. It’s tempting to connect it to certain symptom profiles but I don’tthink we have the evidence to do that. And there’s already a lot of judgementconnected to the particular symptoms survivors develop.

 The question of whether something that’s realistically possible isappropriate- that’s a more difficult one. It rather inevitably comes down tohow you handle it.

 The biggest potential problem I can see with it is the suggestion thattorture ‘makes’ victims violent. This comes up in fiction occasionally withtorture used as a way to excuse a survivor’s immoral behaviour or worse used tofurther blame them for it. There’s sometimes this perception that survivors aresomehow ‘tainted’ by what they endured. Corrupted, made immoral.

 But this implication often happens when there’s only one torturesurvivor in the story.

 I think it’s also a sign of how badly we tend to deal with…people who dobad things but have also been victims in their own right. Or hell people whowere important to us personally but did awful things to others.

 Torture survivors are- well people. They’re incredibly varied and someof them are terrible people or at least make terrible decisions. The problem iswhen our narratives suggest that’s somehow their default rather than natural variation between people and choice.

 From what you’ve said and your intention to include multiple survivors Ithink you’ve got a lot of scope to emphasise variety and choice.

 When it comes to choosing violence- I see a lot of story lines aboutpeople who ‘naively’ believe in nonviolence until they suffer torture or someother violent trauma and lose faith in it turning to violence.

 Statement of bias: as a pacifist myself I think this is a load of crap.

 And going by what victims and activists themselves actually say and do-well I don’t think the evidence suggests it’s a common phenomena. I can thinkof far more real life accounts of people who supported violence turning topacifism than the other way round. I’d suggest this is because in mostsocieties some support of violence isseen as the ‘default’. Complete rejection of violence is unusual in any givenculture that relies on agriculture. (I do not have sufficient data on huntergather societies to feel I can judge if there are differences).

 I think that’s what you need to look at if you’re writing about violenceby torture survivors: how much violence generally is supported by society as a ‘solution’.

 The thought process is relatively straight forward. If the charactergoes into this traumatic event believing something as simple as- ‘it would beOK to kill someone who broke into my house because it’s self-defence’ that’s aframework she can use to expand her definition of what violence is ‘acceptable’.Pre-emptively attacking ‘enemies’ is ‘fine’ because they’d have attacked hersooner or later anyway. Attacking civilians is ‘acceptable’ because they’resupporting those enemies and because they’ll ‘inevitably’ end up becomingenemies. Attacking children is ‘acceptable’ because they’re bound to grow upinto enemies.

 And so forth.

 How much support she’d get from other survivors- well that depends a loton the type of individual variance I’ve been discussing in relation to her.

 Having all the other survivors support or reject her is probably overlysimplistic.

 What I’d expect to see is a real variety in opinions, with some strongrejection, some support and everything else in between.

 I’d encourage you to include people who rejected violence before theywere tortured and continue to reject violence.

 Opposition to torture and violence among survivors is often based onexactly the same things as opposition to torture in people who’ve never beentortured. Religious and moral arguments generally feature heavily. Survivorsmay additionally express something to the effect that ‘no one deserves that’.

 Conversely survivors who supportyour character may well argue that these enemies do ‘deserve’ it.

 I’d advise you to handle that argument carefully if you include it: it’sused to justify a lot of real abuse.

 I think you’d also get a lot of people in between. ‘Well she has a pointbut-’ ‘I just think she’s gone a bit too far-’ ‘She’s not spending enough timeon the issues I care about any more-’ ‘All this fighting is making things moredifficult for me personally’

 And so forth.

 Keep in mind that her violent action islikely to make things more difficult on a basic every day level for the peopleshe supposedly supports. This sort of thing leads to systematic oppressiveresponses from authorities: more check points, more stop and searches, moreraids on homes, more arrests, more pre-job checks. And more violent responses,more shootings, more incarcerations, more deaths.

 All of which could make life more difficult for the people who aresupposed to be her main source of support.

 There’d be people who’d support her outside the organisation and peoplewho’d oppose her.

 Within the organisation she’s part of a policy of torture is going tocause a fracturing effect, as it would in any organisation. She’s going todivide the people she works with every day in a much more pronounced way thenwith other forms of violence.

 People tend to be a lot more accepting of murder (at least in certaincontexts against certain people) then they are of torture. She’d probably stillget some opposition if she’s turning a nonviolent movement into a violent one,but it’s likely to be less widespread and less pronounced then if she startsregularly torturing.

 Overall I think this is going to be a tricky one to balance. Not by anymeans impossible, but there’s a lot to balance. It can be especially difficultto show the arguments torture apologists and supporters use without implyingthat the narrative condones them. That’s something you can partly counter witheffective opposition to what she’s doing and by showing a variety of viewpoints both in her power base and torturer survivors more generally.

 I hope that helps and if you’ve got any further questions don’t hesitateto ask. :)

Disclaimer