#'b/c my mom will look at me weird if i ask her...' [no she won't]

[spl-central]

rooms that would make sense if the buyer got all of the items at a flea market. separately

… this fellow. 

CLEAN UP your FUCKING ROOM. 

What the hell even is that poster– he has a block with the number 2 on it? TONKA TRUCK? IS THAT A PLANT? CACTOS? WHAT IS THE FUCKING BOATRD? what the fuck is with his lamp– is that the only light source in this room? how does he access the bulletin board does he just stand on his desk

IS THIS WHERE THE ROOM IS IN RELATION TO THE REST OF THE HOUSE? WHERE'S THE OTHER WINDOW– THE OTHER ROOM BY IT(???)

I would say I guess that makes sense but going by that size that would mean it's tiny and for all intents and purposes it looks fairly average sized. 

Anyway first show appearance of Dexter!!1!11!!!!

Again… I do wish there was more… done with Dexter. Not like, oh more depth no I just wish they like– like I said earlier, did more of a bit than just the nerd thing. I think they needed him to be a little more… a little more… 

He needed to be a little more Charlie Day from Always Sunny. i will not elaborate on this,

[asherlockstudy]

GMMore 2637 was interesting...

a) Rhett totally painted Katrina as a closeted lesbian in his mind or at least that her husband comes second in her heart XD

Rhett: You really want to... you want to get close. Like when you want to connect to somebody, we need to - we need to bring your hubby in here. Do you go into your hubby's pores? Katrina: No. Rhett:

"Poor husband living a lie" This was what he was conveying but I don't think Katrina caught the joke. BTW she really sounded obsessed!

b) Maybe I see too much in this but I think Link and particularly Rhett were a little pensive about the great relationship Meghan has with her mother. When she said they don't hide anything from each other and that they communicate everyday, they were slightly taken aback, in a "wow can family relationships realistically be that good?".

Rhett: Wow, so you are an open book? Meghan: With my mom, yes. Rhett: Y'all talk every day?! (looks down, speaks seriously, emphatically) That is a beautiful thing. Do you want to get in her pores? Meghan: Sometimes. She has such nice pores. Rhett: (looks down again)

Meghan did not even respond to the joke in a typical supposedly humorous way like "ewww that's weird haha", she fully went "yeah I love me mom, whatever it takes". It definitely felt like Rhett and Link were making comparisons inside their minds and I wonder whether they projected themselves into this from the perspective of the parent or the child. I won't go as far as to say they looked jealous of this but Rhett especially seemed to openly consider regular, healthy and honest communication between parent and child an unusual occurence.

c) Lastly, Link's dream of course. He and Rhett being trapped in a large house, except Link was scared as hell and wanted out of it whereas Rhett was enjoying its creepiness. This dream left enough of an impression to Link for him to discuss it with his therapist. As he explained, he thought the dream was revealing what is going on in his psyche.

Link was itching to go back to his dream. Nobody asked him what his dream meant but Link was just dying to say more. Both Rhett and Stevie made a quick hard pass on him. Now, you're all welcome to tell me what the message he was trying to convey was and I am honest in saying I am not sure. Does he need a break badly? Does he want to quit GMM / Mythical? Short-term? Long-term? Is this about the other type of escape I have talked about? An outing? But this would suggest the outing is complete in his private life, which, again, I am not sold on at all. Or, back to it, is this really just professional? He's so done with GMM. He needs a break? But if it was just a short-term need for a vacation, would Rhett and Stevie be as uncomfortable about it as they were? Maybe Link thinks they are overdoing it? He wishes for fewer days, maybe he would like GMM to become like GMS or even just be a weekly show...? They make all the content in MS too, it could be too much for him at this point... Just throwing some guesses out there...

[alatismeni-theitsa]

Coming out story time, Γρεεκ edition. With a plot twist. Sorry for the long ass rant I just didn't know who else to tell my story who would get both the Greek Thinking TM and also be accepting of queer ppl.

Apologies for crude language (i think)?? I cannot describe it in a way that's as eloquent and beautiful as I want.

A. Μαμά.

I came out to my mother descriptively, because I knew if I said a Big Gay Word she'd instantly connect it to what she associates with Gay stuff, and I wanted to get her honest reaction, not what she thinks her reaction should be. And also because I Do Not Know what exactly I am (out of the whole LGBT alphabet, I could be Gay/Les, I could be Bi, I could maybe sort of kinda be trans but I do identify with womanhood in the Greek TM way so I don't think I can call myself NB? Anyway whatever, labels don't matter to me and only make me feel weird when applied to me), so there's that.

Specifically I said "Ma, I'm not only attracted to boys." Because that's the best I can describe my hauntingly persistent bisexuality as haha.

After the initial confusion, the first question she asked was "so you'd want to have sex with a woman?" A question I chose not to answer, one because Μαμά τι στο καλό θες να σου πω τώρα :/ and also because the answer is neither no or yes. It goes beyond just Mm Yes Pussy Nice for me. Reducing it to just that is making my skin crawl just as much as Mm Yes Dick Nice. That's dehumanising for me, I'm sorry. :/ My answer was literally "δεν ξέρω/δεν απαντώ" lmao.

And?? She may have accidentally come out to me too??? Without realising it?????

Because she said three things:

1. "Oh, when I was at your age I went through this phase as well." Which??????????? What does it mean if not the think I'm thinking of??? Ma have you really been in denial/the closet for 50 years?

2. "I was fiercely defensive of gay people when I was younger." Which, YES. As you should μαμά. Only it has created this haunting fear in me that in 30 years time, with "experience", I'll change too and I'll go against my gay brothers and sisters as Ορθοδοξία seems to want. Which I won't. I hope. I can only hope my heart won't change, even if I marry a guy and go ahead and have children of my own. Like... it doesn't make sense, HOW did she change her mind in the first place??? How does that happen to someone? Will it happen to me too?

3. "It's okay, I love you for who you are." In the end, all is good. Even if she thinks she's a phase that I'll grow out of, and probably would not allow me to think about dating/settling with another woman, she's not cutting me out of the will! She still loves me!! It's a win for me. :D

Also she approves of cute gender neutral nicknames because she's always called me that. Like: το ζουζουνάκι, το μαρουδάκι (εννοώντας πασχαλίτσα🐞), το κουφετάκι, κτλ.

I really love her little habits I'm sorry. :')

B. Αδερφούλα

I'll keep it brief because there's not as much to say. She's younger than me so she used to have a very much "oh ew wtf" reaction.

But recently?? She's been treating it like an inside joke??? Like, refering to me as "το τέρας" ή "το αρνί" because she knows I love being affectionately/jokingly called an "it". Also making gay jokes in rare occasions, which I love.

She's a little insecure about being perceived as Λεσβία for her fashion sense, and I regularly assure her that she can wear whatever makes her feel good and not worry about how others see her. Can she rock a ��υναικείο κουστούμι like a boss? Fuck yea. Does that mean she's a lesbian just because she looks masculine and pretty at the same time? Fuck no, you do you boo. I know how much you like dressing like this. Nobody's opinion can take it away. And lesbians are not Bad either, so she has a lot to unpack in the future. But I'm still very proud of her and how far she's come since I first told her (long before mom actually) and I absolutely love her to death.

Also she called me a bottom. Shame on her. Gah, siblings.

Honorary entries:

C. Dad

I have yet to come out to him because he often ridicules openly queer people on TV. Like, οικογενειακά watching Eurovision the Maneskin year (every year really) was both hilarious and terrifying.

But, like?? He's also lowkey kinda Bi too in a repressed way? In the way that he's loyal to the woman he married but also making strong bromances when given the chance? It's so funny to me, because he has such a soft and fond expression when talking about friends he has sort of trauma-bonded with (term used loosely, but you know how Dads are).

I could also be just tripping and trying to seek comradeship where there's none because Parents are the ones a child seeks to relate to, but I'd rather not psychoanalyse me rn.

D. Granny

Also can I just talk about Passive Acceptance. Because granny (without knowing about my identity) sometimes refers to me and my sister as παλικάρι in a Gender Neutral sense ("δεν είναι μόνο τα αγόρια παλικάρια" she says. granny is a feminist icon without even trying to be. slay.) and it makes my woman-in-a-vague-sense-i-guess(?) heart do the little proud flutter thing.

Also does it make sense to be a non-binary when it comes to speaking English but sort of a woman (actually yes a woman but also yes and no at the same time because I look and act really soft cheery and feminine but I'm mentally also a τέρας από την άβυσσο και τα τάρταρα :D) when speaking Greek??? It's so confusing, how can I perceive gender in two entirely different ways at the same time what the everloving fuck. What AM I...??

Again, sorry for the jumbled thoughts, my last three braincells are busy rn χορεύing Καλαματιανό.

Γειαα! Παιδια με σκλαβωνετε με τα μηνυματα σας τελευταια 💗 Ειλικρινα χαιρομαι παρα πολυ που εχω εστω και λιγο την εμπιστοσυνη σας - εγω μια ξενη στο ιντερνετ - και μου λετε τις σκεψεις και τις ιστοριες σας! Το εκτιμω παρα πολυ!

Να ξερετε οτι ακομα και αν τυχον διαφωνουμε σε καποια πραγματα, μπορειτε να μου στελνετε μηνυματα. Γιατι ποτε δε θα διαφωνησω με το δικαιωμα καποιου να ζει με ασφαλεια και να ειναι ο εαυτος του (το οποιο ειναι ανθρωπινο δικαιωμα ουτως ή αλλως)

Επισης: Δημοσιευω το μηνυμα επειδη δεν υπηρχε καποια δηλωση που ελεγε να μην το κανω. Αν καποιος ομως θελει να μη δημοσιευσω καποιο μηνυμα ή να διαγραψω καποιο μηνυμα, ας μου το πει, δεν υπαρχει θεμα!

Οκ switching off to English!

The whole experience is So Greek, damn! Starting with Mother, telling her Descriptively, her saying that she also liked women "one time", then considering that something is off with Dad as well, then mentioning the accidentally supportive Grandma who gives no shits... Πρεπει να εχουμε ενα σχετικο επεισοδιο στις Οικογενειακές Ιστορίες ετσι για την ταυτιση των τηλεθεατων.

Also, just because I am a nosy dramatic bitch, I would DEFINITELY bring back this conversation if this was my mum, and I would tell her "You know that you like women too, right? You can't just... lose attraction for a whole gender overnight. And they also say that sexual orientation is genetic......" Just to see her reaction and try to convince her 😂 (Don't attempt if you think it won't go well for you! 😅)

I'm really happy about how you handled things with your sis! Being perceived as a lesbian is nothing bad because lesbians are nothing bad! She can rock whatever she wants, like you said! There are lesbians out there who dress like "everyone else", meaning that clothes can potentially be a hint but you can never tell just by the clothes. She has a lot to unpack indeed but with more teaching moments by you, I'm sure she's in good hands.

Oooooh that Dad case! I have a theory here, knowing Greek dads. Perhaps he will be more supportive than you think. Not just because of the things you mentioned, but because he loves you and supports you as his child (from what I read). Greek dads can be ride or die, especially with their daughters. So, if you are confident enough when you tell him, if you look logical and self-aware, he actually might back you up and he might be the most supportive! Parents often dismiss their children because they believe that children are doing it for attention, or because of a whim. Greek dads, I've noticed, want things to be told to them with huuuge neon letters, otherwise they don't act on the situation.

For example, you can be like "Dad, I want to tell you something. (diretor hint: play it sad and worried here, he might feel the need to be protective instead of defensive) I like women too, and I have been feeling it for a long time. I didn't feel it because someone else "indoctrinated" me to it. It's a natural feeling to me. It is not a phase. I cannot switch it on and off like it's a hall light. Most importantly, this is not dangerous for me. I know that you might be concerned and we can talk about it. I just want you to know because this is an important part of who I am."

-- Again, assess the situation accordingly. You definitely don't have to do anything I suggest. And you can make the dialogue more or less cheesy :P In any case, when you talk to him keep in mind that he's an older man who grew up in specific decades and you have to make an effort to set things his way otherwise things will be lost in translation and neither of you will notice.

That's how I got an old aunt to support me. 😂This aunt was the type that says "A woman liking another woman?? Ιησούς Χριστός!!" I noticed what things she valued most (being your own person, having fun in life, not allowing anyone to step on you) and I built my case by telling her that the way I live at the moment gives me all these advantages. I also matched her tone, and I tried to see things from her side, which eventually helped guide her to the mindset I wanted to introduce her to. Sometimes many conversations and subtle hints are needed for this guidance. And they also need to like you because the Greek statement "το δικο μας το παιδι ποτε δεν κανει κατι κακο! το δικο μας το παιδι ειναι χρυσο!" will usually prevail over "A woman liking another woman?? Ιησούς Χριστός!!" 😂

What's more, some parents of queer kids already know what their kids are. They just don't say anything out of fear they will encourage this behaviour. Meanwhile the kids get stressed for decades about how the parents will react, and when they finally come out the parents, the parents are like "eh... we already knew, to be honest. We've been watching you hug and kiss girls since you were like... six. We just hoped that you'd grow out of it, that's why we didn't bring it up. We didn't want you to grow up into a behaviour that would separate you from other kids cause they would bully you and harm you."

The grandma is TOP, by the way! I feel like many older people really know what's important in life. The thought of two women getting married might never be palatable to her but she knows that alienating family members for harmless shit is not where it's at. I love her already!

On the "It's so confusing, how can I perceive gender in two entirely different ways at the same time what the everloving fuck. What AM I…??"

It is a fact that people slightly switch personalities when switching languages. English is a more polite, careful, and tip-toeing language, while in Greece malakas is a word of love if said to your friend 😂 And it's true that cultures perceive gender in different ways. So if you switch to US English and get into their mindset, they have another version of femininity. (Well, the whole country is diverse but I'm talking about the generic, permeating WASP stereotype of the preferred femininity in the US media)

I switch behavior in English too and sometimes I find that I'm more polite and "more feminine" there, which for me... eeeh not my style so much. (English makes us dysphoric, pass it down 😂😂😂😂)

Which brings me to another discussion. I am not nonbinary so I won't want to speculate on what nonbinary is and how it feels. Instead I will speak about a phenomenon sometimes seen in women, who, (sometimes!) need to be seen as a person (who deserves full respect) and not "just a woman" they take up the nonbinary label. Being a woman (or a man) comes with certain expectations and baggage and sometimes as a woman (or as a man) you can totally feel like "fuck it, I want to opt out" or "I already don't do these things and I don't want to ever do them or feel them, so I guess am actually not a woman/man".

I want to stress again that I don't imply non-binary people are this. And I'm not saying that's you. I'm just leaving this out there because it's very harmful when society makes you feel like "failing" at your gender and telling you "you are not a real man/woman because you don't do the X stereotypes", and some people fall for it want to "opt out" of their gender without realizing that in the process they're following the logic of... binaries.

Whatever you identify as should come from the inside, not from what society tells you a woman should be. Because, as you noticed, the Greek and the US society have different notions of what a woman "should be". Heck, you might move to Sweden and find out that out there you feel like Barbie while in Greece you may feel like Babis doing the exact same things😂 Don't rely on society and stereotypes, my humble opinion is. Rely on yourself. And it's okay if you don't have a definitive answer to "what you are". Just live and present as you are most comfortable.

One more thought that I have, which you can also take or leave, is about the sexuality part. I'm not family or a friend, and I don't know you well. I'm not an authority and I don't think my words are scripture. My speculation could perhaps help your brain cells stop χορεύειν τσάμικον γύρω απ τη φωτιά στο δάσος 😂

Sooo... have you considered asexuality?

Heeeaaar me out. Your confusion seems a bit similar to that of people who are asexual but don't know it yet. First of all, there's a difference between aesthetic attraction and sexual attraction. Asexuals usually start thinking they are gay or bi because their sexual attraction to men and women is the same. Zero. 0 = 0 after all 😂

At the same time, asexuals can often feel "off" in their gender and gender expression because automatically they don't subscribe to amatonormative rules and hence, they don't subscribe to gender rules.

An asexual can still have aesthetic attraction to people (just not sexual) and want a romantic relationship. An asexual can have aesthetic attraction to only one gender or many. There's a whole spectrum in asexuality, and there are ace identities like the aegosexuals who are actually not sex repulsed. They are interested in sex as an idea, but they just don't experience sexual attraction for people in real life. (Imagine it like, you like watching football for the rush and the technique, but there's nooo way you want to go down on the field and start kicking a ball.)

Their relationships with their significant others are often "queerplatonic" because the way they perceive gender and companionship (that is not friendship) is queer compared to the rest of society.

I thought about this cause you mentioned the "hauntingly persistent bisexuality", and also because usually the answer to "so you wanna fuck women?" is "eh…yes??" if you are attracted to women in the usual way xD But of course, it might be just your character, that you don't want to focus on sex despite having sexual attraction, and, as you said avoid "dehumanizing" the other. So again, my speculation might be wrong. If you know you are sexually attracted to people, and if you don't have to ask "what is sexual attraction tho?" then that's probably not it😄

Okay, I rambled for too long again but I hope this message has helped you at least in one way. Know that you are already slaying out there and you WILL CONTINUE to slay because you're a cool and kind person with great self-reflection skills.

=================================

Generic message: If my posts have helped you in any way consider buying me a ko-fi 💖

[sokkas1mp]

I gonna break in this acocunt with me being angry about something that doesn't really matter (very fitting for tumblr if you ask me), this article.

First: "And I’m sorry to open with this, but part of that is due to the age difference between them. Two years is hardly worlds apart (I’m personally working with four), but a 12-year-old boy and a 14-year-old girl are. Especially the way these two are drawn. Not to be too voyeuristic about Y7 cartoons, but Katara has clearly gone through puberty, while Aang hasn’t. There is something just…off, about a sixth grade boy having a full on make-out sesh with a high school girl."

This argument is one of the most stupid ones if you ask me, because it blatantly ignores the culture we have been presented by the show. I can understand why people find this weird, but we have to try not to look at it as if its our society, because its not. In A:tla, specifically the water tribes, 16 is marrying age. Right there, our "age norms" (idk what else to call it) are very different. And there are no divisions between ages in their world like we have with middle and high school. To me, two people are fit to be together based on their maturity, not their age. That's why 45 & 40 is not the same as 15 & 10, or 20 & 15. This is the same for Kataang. They have very similar life experiences and matured together, literally side by side, so a two year ago gap is irrelevant.

Second: "...Katara took on a very maternal role with Aang. Sure, she’s a caretaker and sort of a “mom friend,” but it’s a bit more than that. She served as his literal guardian during the show’s run—there’s just no other way to look at it. By the third episode, she called herself his “family,” and later even went on to role play as his mother to get him out of trouble at school. Aang, meanwhile, was… Well, I wouldn’t say “immature” for his age, […] However, Katara is 14 going on 25, while Aang is just, Aang."

There's a compilation of Katara doing thing with Aang that if someone saw a mother doing with her son they would call it incest:

Katara definitely acts motherly towards Aang, but that is just her nature. She is more than just motherly with him. And some people like to call the check kisses familial (which is kinda weird imo), but we know Katara herself doesnt think that:

"Easy there, big brother" She pushes Sokka away. Not to mention, this was about a scene or two before she kisses Aang on the check.

Calling someone close to you your family does not mean you see them in the same way you see your parents/siblings. And Sokka played Aang's father in that scene, but we aren't sitting here using that as evidence to call him Aang's paternal figure.

Something Aang haters forget (or chose to ignore) is that being lighthearted and goofy does not equal immature. Yes, Aang does some juvenile things, but that shouldn't take away from his growth and maturity.

Third: "In fact, in the last season, Katara was shown to be uncomfortable each time Aang kisses her, and even went as far as to tell him to back off with the romantic stuff in the episode before the finale, because she was confused about how she felt. [*new paragraph*] Yet, in the end, she just trots up and blushes at Aang, than happily makes out with him when he goes for it,"

Katara initiated 2/4 of the kataang kisses (not including the check kisses). The kiss in The Cave of Two Lovers and the kiss in the finale. Yes, she's the one that "goes for it" in the finale (she also initiates the hug). She only pulls away once out of the 3 times we see a kiss end (this would be excluding the kiss in The Cave of Two Lovers). She wasn't confused about her feelings, she didn't want to have to worry about a relationship when they were nearing the end of the war.

Fourth: "The post-canon comics only furthered the lack of exploration of her feelings in this relationship"

Fifth: "[referencing a scene in The Promise in which Katara is jealous of a fanclub being around Aang] "I'm sorry, this amazing, adult communication is blowing me away"

The are both still teenagers, who have zero previous relationship experience. Also, Aang had no ill intentions and Katara recognized it.

Sixth: [refencing Katara's role in The Legend of Korra] "Did Katara want to do anything other than sit in a healing hut and be known for having Aang's kids?"

This is another argument that just pisses me off. You can not use Katara's lifestyle in her 80s (she is 85 in s1) as judgement for her adulthood. It's purely assumption based. Constantly this author assumes that because she is in a relationship with Aang, Katara would drop her whole personality. What? Katara would not and could not be forced to do something or conform to some label and Aang wouldn't let it get to that point either. He would squash any idea that she is just "The Avatar's wife" or "The mother of the Avatar's children" the minute he heard it.

Seven: [comparing Katara's reaction to Aang The Desert to Aang's reaction to Katara in The Southern Raiders] "You'll spend a long time looking for her condescending tones. "Anger won't help, Aang," Katara never said, because she got that he was processing something painful and needed to sort it out himself. This difference in behavior is something that would be really fitting for a twelve year old boy to learn and understand. There's just no indication that he ever did."

Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I don't remember Aang being condescending towards Katara. He was offering his advice because he knew her and knew that she would regret doing what she thought was right when her judgement was clouded by anger. And guess what. He was right. He never forced anything on her, either. Sure, he was a bit more pushy than he could've been, but in the end he let her go on the trip with no complaints. He even agreed that this was something she had to do.

Eighth: [referencing The Ember Island Players] "When the actor says 'Wait! I thought you were the Avatar's girl', Aang agrees. Katara is his."

You know damn well Aang doesn't see Katara as just his. And she's give him PLENTY of reason to believe that his feelings are reciprocated (which they are).

Ninth: "It's the story of a woman who swallows everything lest the man she's interested in has to learn anything about his behavior that violates her boundaries."

Ha! You said she was interested in him.

But in all seriousness, you mentioned how Katara stood her ground and told Aang that she was confused, but apparently now she's swallowing her feeings.

Tenth: [talks about the cloud babies daddy issues]

I don't disagree with what is said here, for the most part, but I don't think it is a reflection on Aang and Katara's relationship.

Eleventh: "... given what what we got with Kataang, it's completely unsurprising that Aang and Katara's parenthood/adult life was defined by a lack of communication and availability, at least from what we can tell. This also puts Katara's choice to immediately moved to the South Pole once Aang died in perspective; perhaps the city he poured all his energy into, at the cost of his family, held some bitter memories."

Once again with the lack communication. We can't use the early years of their relationship to determine their whole relationship. Also, there wasn't consistently a lack of communication, you just pointed out one time and ran with it.

We don't know at what point Katara moved back to the South Pole, but there are plenty of reasons for Katara to leave Air Temple Island:

a) Her son moving in/or planning to move in with his family.

b) She was no longer needed in the city and thus had no need to stay.

c) She wanted to go back to her native home for comfort after the love of her life died at a relatively early age.

d) The next Avatar was discovered and she came home to train them.

That's all. Thank you for reading my unnecessary rant if you made it this far, and I just want to close out with a few things:

- There were some things in the article that I did not include for the fear of this becoming a novel of me repeating myself.

- I agree with most thing said in the final segment of the the article. Most, not all.

- I appreciate the author for not trying to shove Zutara in just because Kataang wasn't there. That is becoming increasingly uncommon, so it was nice to see.

[lizacstuff]

Your thoughts on the epi? I thought it was a good episode overall. Serkan is acting the way I thought he would: he wants to be the perfect Dad, is scared she won't love him, is spoiling her but also teaching her things. I'm not quite sure why Kiraz isn't calling him Baba, maybe she needs time to adjust to calling him that. I have mixed emotions when it comes to the way Eda spied on Serkan. I understand she's worried but trust the man a little. No comments on Aydan and Ayfer! They are too much!

Hello! I liked the episode. It felt very light, very romcom-y and I thought it was very enjoyable to watch. Loved every minute of Serkan trying to be the ideal dad and I'm here for the Edser UST this ep brought. They want each other sooooo much. And, yes, Eda wants him, she wants him bad. I thought the custody thing at the end was silly and convoluted, but, hey, I'm totally here for the "they're not together and fighting their feelings, but forced to live together" trope so I will just ignore how unbelievable it would be for Edser to be drowning in hearteyes for each other all ep, getting along in regards to Kiraz, AND seemingly aware that Aydan/Ayfer were up to something and still allow a misunderstanding over their shenanigans to spiral to that nonsense degree.

Maybe the folks that think that Serkan & Eda were playing all the meddling family and friends are right, and they set it up beforehand, it's just that I've thought things were a fake out on this show so many times, only for them to be real, so at this point I'm operating under the assumption that this is just a romcom plot point to throw our romantic leads together and it's not worth examining it too closely.

I'll give my thoughts on the "Baba" vs "Serkan Bolat" thing and Eda's actions after we talk a bit about the B, C and D players... Thankfully we had plenty of Edser and Kiraz screen time this ep so the supporting stories didn't overwhelm the episode too much.

(much more under the cut)

That being said, who can we pay to get these people to mind their own f-cking business? LMAO. At least Engin and Piril weren't annoying and were actually trying to be helpful. I mean, Piril is still cancelled, but if she's not causing trouble now then she's not at the top of my shit list. However, I did laugh at her when she's sort of pleading with Serkan: "We've been friends for a long time, you'll understand why I did this." Um... what, Piril? You're sitting there approximately 72 hours after Serkan found out he has a child and he's already proven that he's ALL IN on being a father, and you expect Serkan to think you were right for hiding it from him? Cause why? He has already proven that any concerns you had about him rejecting Kiraz were invalid. The only thing wrong with Serkan's anger at Piril is that it will probably only last for that scene.

Anyone else think Kerem the assistant is an ass? Seriously, do they really want us to root for sweet Pina to be with this dickweasel? He's insecure, he thinks he knows it all, he's snarky and lashes out, he's vindictive. No thanks.

As for Aydan and Ayfer. Ooph. As punishment for their unprecedented assery this episode they both need to be stranded on a desert island with only each other. Only then maybe they'll learn not to insert themselves by such underhanded means. They're both giant pains in the ass, but Ayfer still annoys me more than Aydan. Because here's the thing, once Edser is back together and Serkan is happy, Aydan will fully embrace Eda again, but I don't think the same can be said for Ayfer. Did you see some of the bitchy, sour faces Ayfer was making, taunting Eda about her soft spot for Serkan. She's insufferable.

Turning to the nonsense meddling custody plot line, Kemal and Seyfi were just following orders, but what is Melo's excuse? It's unfortunate that the narrative pulled her into this. Ayfer may have her head in the sand, and not really care what Eda wants, but Melo does and she knew that Eda wanted to cooperate with Serkan and bring him into Kiraz's life, she knew that Eda was about 2 seconds from melting every time she was near Serkan, and that they were likely on the cusp of rekindling their relationship. There is no way she should have been complicit in trying to get evidence against Serkan or visiting lawyers behind Eda's back.

However, even after being complicit in Ayfer's nonsense, she still deserves a helluva lot better than Burak. That guy was annoying af this episode. What exactly does he think he's doing? I'm sorry, in that situation you step back and give the people going through such a monumental life change some space. Again, it's not like it needs to be forever, but you don't try and monopolize the kid's time the night of and 2 days after she meets her long-lost father. He needs to fuck all he way off.

Also since Eda had no interest in this guy, why is he coming over to tuck in the kid EVERY night? I get that he's been good to Kiraz and they have a nice relationship, but that's soooo overkill, it's just not normal. Especially since they've said they've only been living there a year. The only reason for a dude to revolve his entire life around a kid like that is because he's actively trying to get in the mom's pants. So when it comes to Burak's intentions, Eda is as dense as Serkan used to be with Balca/Selin/Actress. Burak only took that level of interest and inserted himself into their lives because he wanted Eda, and Eda should realize that and have a frank conversation with him. Eda doesn't even have to be cognizant that she will inevitably get back together with Serkan, she already knows she has no interest in Burak. She should tell him. And if she's already told him (which it seems she might have from her comments to Ayfer and Melo) she should put some boundaries in place because his presence was ridiculous.

It still blows my mind that this sad sack thinks he has a shot with Eda. Seriously, while the dude isn't hideous, he's also not attractive and he has the personality of dead grass coupled with the charisma of warm mayonnaise. He's not worthy of either Eda or Melo. The scene of Melo and Burak walking on the beach made me a bit uncomfortable. They're totally setting that relationship up, but so far all we see is Melo obviously harboring feelings for him as Burak broods over his Eda delusions. We'll have to see how this plays out, but I feel like Burak didn't need to be this upset over Eda for the story to work, and it would be a lot easier to root for him with Melo if by episode 5 if he wasn't still actively trying, as Engin said, to take over Serkan's family.

On to Edser and the newly forming Bolat family unit. It's funny, I'm not someone who thinks a woman needs to take her husband's last name, I think people should do whatever they want, but for whatever reason I really, really want Eda and Kiraz to have his name. Maybe because I think they all crave having people to belong to in a sense. Serkan because he was unloved and sent overseas alone at such a young age, Eda because she was an orphan, Kiraz because she didn't have a dad in early childhood. So for that reason, I really do feel like it will be meaningful to have them tied together that way as a family unit. They belong to each other now (or they will soon).

Along those lines, you say you're not sure why Kiraz isn't calling him Baba, narratively, I think it's because that will be a big milestone in their relationship. When she feels comfortable enough, connected enough, and secure enough with him to do that, it's going to melt all of our hearts right out of our chests. If she'd done it right away it wouldn't feel as special as it's going to feel when it eventually happens because she feels it (not just because it's a fact).

As for her calling him Serkan Bolat, I think it's adorable. That's how she knew him before, it would be weird if she called him anything other than that or Baba, (like Serkan or Abi) because then it would be like she was settling on that, but calling him by his full name, which is such a part of his identity, is cute and charming and pays tribute to the interactions they had before they knew of their relationship, and it's a signal that it's only temporary. Baba is coming, don't worry.

Loved Kiraz showing Serkan her room and all of her things, and really loved Eda standing there, smiling, soaking it in. I've seen a lot of criticism of Eda in this episode and she did have a few moments that were unnecessarily harsh, but I think it's also valid to give her a minute to adjust because this is a lot of change in just a couple of days. While she now knows Serkan had understandable, and even noble, reasons for what he did and said, that still doesn't erase the heartbreak and pain he put her through, or the 5 years of being a single mother and not having anyone to consult or needing to consult anyone on decisions regarding Kiraz.

I do think, though, that we didn't see Eda give him enough credit when he covered for her lies to Kiraz. When Kiraz asked her why she didn't tell her Serkan Bolat was her father and then asked him when mom didn't answer, he could have easily told the truth and thrown Eda under the bus, big time, but instead he comes up with something that passes as an explanation, doesn't make anyone a villain, but also doesn't make him look great. I wish we'd seen Eda recognize that. It was a magnanimous gesture on his part, since he and Kiraz were the ones who were lied to for 5 years.

However, her running a bit hot and cold this episode makes sense. On one hand when she's around him her heart feels that strong orbital pull towards him. She loves him. She always has loved him, she always will love him. Just like with Serkan, that will not change, and obviously didn't after heartbreak and separation. But it also makes sense that at times her head takes over and with it the fear and the memory of the pain and she freezes up a bit. It doesn't ding her or their love, she just needs time to let herself believe that this is really happening. That Serkan is back, that he still loves her, that he loves their daughter and wants to be a father and form a family. From the way she recorded those videos, how many times do we think she dreamed of them being a happy family together? I'm guessing a lot. Now it's within her grasp and I think she just needs to be sure that Serkan is for real before she fully succumbs to this dream.

She also needs to get over her pride, I'm sure there's a part of her (Ayfer's voice) telling her a woman doesn't go back to a man who hurt her that badly. But as we saw, girlfriend was snuggling with his shirt, she still has it so bad for him. But, pro tip, Eda, he wanted to stay the night, wouldn't it be so much more fulfilling to snuggle with the real thing? I promise it would... just let him in. The lawn scene was hilarious. Kerem is really and truly a gifted physical comedian. We know how tight the timelines are on this show and they don't get to do a lot of takes, but his stumbling over the furniture and falling was flawlessly done. Hande was great too... that bat! Of course the sexual tension in the robes and towel scene was magnificent. When she first walked in wearing that towell I thought my man was going to combust. That look on his face, priceless.

Speaking of priceless, what first-day Baba makes his little girl's dreams come true like Serkan Bolat does? Staying up all night to build her flying house? MY HEART!

What a fantastic first gift. It was incredibly thoughtful, it was meaningful to the two of them, and it was also Serkan giving a piece of himself (using his skills in what he does best as an architect) to her.

Absolute perfection.

And how sweet that Serkan wanted to spend the day with her alone!?! I really liked that because we all know he loves Eda, he wants Eda back, and he will use any excuse to spend time with Eda. And he could have done that here, but he doesn't. So the fact that he wanted to spend the day alone with Kiraz, clearly illustrates that his interest in Kiraz, his desire to be her father stands on it's own. Kiraz is not just an excuse to get close to Eda, he is pursuing both relationships, and they are both important to him.

Also you said that you have mixed emotions on the way Eda spied on Serkan, that she doesn't trust him, but honestly I really don't think it's about that. She might have been a little discombobulated by the idea because the man has never really spent any time with children and here he's thrust into fatherhood, but she trusts him and knows Kiraz is safe with him. Honestly, I think her biggest driving factor in following them is FOMO.

She doesn't want to miss this! She has wondered what kind of father he might be for years, and now she wants to witness it. She wants to be there and see what he's like when he's spending time with her. She also wants to be a part of it, and a part of her might be a little jealous. For years she's been the only parent, and now another parental bond is forming and it's natural she is curious what that's going to look like.

Melo even sees through her during their conversations while they're out spying. Eda pretends it's because she's worried that Serkan doesn't know what he's doing, but Melo susses out that it's really because she missed Serkan. I think she really just wanted to be a part of it.

And her ulterior motives are exposed when she reacts with jealousy over the park moms and then with Hulya. She's jealous over Serkan, but also over what it might mean if Serkan had a woman in his life that's not Eda. (Real simple way to ensure that doesn't happen, Eda, just saying). On first watch it was a little frustrating to watch Eda be upset about Huyla and not have it cleared up immediately. However, on the second time through I found it incredibly enjoyable to watch. Hilarious even. Knowing that Serkan is going to let her off the hook just a few minutes later, and it's not going to be a drawn out misunderstanding, it's very fun to watch him just totally bask in her jealousy. The way he sits there and giggles and is just so chuffed at her display was very endearing. Since he's been celibate for 5 years, I suppose he's earned an incrediulous laugh at her thinking he has all these women on the line.

Eda is not wrong to be concerned about the Bolat's ability to spoil Kiraz with material things, Aydan can get out of control, however I can't be mad at the pony. The girl asked him if he had horses the first day they met, she said she wanted a dad like Serkan who had horses, he HAD to get her one she could actually ride! The girl was deprived of her father for 5 years because both of her parents are stubborn, so, let's be real, she kinda deserves a pony. Besides Eda should be more worried about the "spoiling" she gets from her camp, where she, Ayfer, Melo and Burak let her get away with constantly running away/running wild, eating ice cream whenever she wants, being rude to strangers etc. The fact that she's taught it's okay to knock a customer's water over without apologizing is more damaging to a forming personality than a pony. (Yes, that was another dig at Burak.) The point is, spoiling isn't only about material things, and from the glimpses we've seen of Baba Serkan he's already taught her about taking responsibility (confessing to breaking the window and apologizing), being self sufficient (tying shoelaces, putting pjs on herself), and setting behavioral boundaries (don't shoot arrows at people in hotels, you shouldn't hug strangers). He's going to be a very good influence in her life, because despite growing up with material privilege the man believes in hard work, effort and personal accountability.

Anyway, loved that when Serkan told Eda about dinner with Engin/Piril/Can she looked so secretly pleased when she casually agreed to go. I think that goes hand in hand with why she was spying, she won't let herself admit it, but she so badly wants them to do things as a family. That was part of her tug o' war this episode. Wanting that, but then suddenly worrying that maybe she shouldn't want that after everything that's happened, those feelings are helped along by Ayfer's judgemental looks and comments, and Burak trying to assert his place and Eda maybe feeling guilty.

Eda's behavior at dinner perfectly summarized the war going on between her head and heart this episode. First she fights with Serkan, going so far as to tell him she hates him, but the second she gets good news she flings herself into his arms. He's the person she wants to celebrate with, he's the person she wants congratulations from. So even if she was mad at him, she can't help herself. Also thank you Engin for telling Eda how Serkan lost weight and didn't come to work for months after she left. Those are important things for her to know. Also reinforced later by Aydan.

And thank you, Jan, for planting that fear of her dad leaving again with Kiraz, because it gave us sleep over at the Bolat house. It also gave us Kiraz asking Serkan if he will leave her. A good question and I'm glad we have Serkan's promise to never leave her. Just with the way tragedy (and meddling family members and obsessed stalkers) seems to find both Eda and Serkan, it's good he's made that promise. And it's good that he knows she needs that promise.

Now onto the secret room. I suppose if you're going to keep all of that and you have a large house, then you might as well keep it in a special room. This was a huge missing piece for Eda. Something tangible that she can see with her own two eyes that proves that he never forgot her and has been pining for her since the day they parted. I thought Eda was suitably touched by it all, and the fact that he got her gifts for every birthday. Anyone else think that they're going to get married on the beach and she's going to wear those flip-flops, that white dress, and the locket when they do? That's what sprung to my mind. The Neslihan scarf product placement made me roll my eyes, though.

To be honest I really didn't care what the gifts were, all I cared about was that thank you cheek kiss. I DIE. The birthday-present-thank-you cheek kiss he gave her in 7 is one of my all time favorite scenes and this parallel was a long time coming and wonderfully executed. And then they delivered on the USTy stare off where they clearly want to make out, but they're not quite there yet. It was going to have to be Eda that broke them out of it, because up to Serkan they either kiss or he stares at her for the rest of time.

Did anyone else feel a crick in their back, neck, legs at how Eda slept on that couch? Serkan was as comfy as can be, stretched out using her legs as a pillow and her torso as a blanket, lol. I wish the editors would have given us a couple of more seconds lingering on them all contorted like that. It was too precious. It would have been sweet if they'd had Kiraz find them and watch them for a minute before waking them up. Show the parent-trapping gears turning in her mind.

Buba absolutely deserved Serkan showing up to spoil his outing. And of course both ladies instantly gravitated to Serkan. I liked this scene because it gave us over-the-top BDE Serkan, a whiff of "Drain the pool" Serkan, the comedy of Engin and Serkan doing the Cyrano thing, and the obvious little "fish" measuring metaphor. But what I really liked was Eda telling him that he didn't need to try so hard to win Kiraz, that he just had to be himself. That was important and lovely, and illustrated to him that she really did want him to develop a good relationship with Kiraz.

The best moments of the episode for them, though, came during their family stargazing outing. Loved Serkan's extra safety precautions, including the mirror just so he can see her in the backseat. Though, if he's that concerned about it, maybe a larger car, lmao? Kiraz tricking them into kissing was an auspicious start to the evening, hopefully that's a taste of things to come. I'm here for her forcing the two of them into intimate situations.

The way Serkan was looking at the two of them throughout the stargazing was something else. He was looking at them with such longing. Like he couldn't believe they were so close, but he wanted them so badly. DUDE, they are right there, continue to play your cards right (and not let Ayfer and Aydan spoil things, spoiler alert, they do) and you're just days away from having everything you want. Loved that he changed the Apollo story to give it the happy ending he wants. Hopefully, that gave hope to any doomsdayers out there that think this show is going to end in tragedy. (Spoiler alert, it's not).

The only shame is that they have that nice (if not detached from reality conversation since they pretend they're not going to be together raising Kiraz) adult conversation about cooperating and working out how they're going to deal with Aydan and Ayfer, only for things to go totally off the rails during said conversations. As I said off the top of this marathon post, it was totally unbelievable in the context of the rest of the episode, but as I always say you can't take this show too seriously, and I prefer to just enjoy the situations as they come and not get too annoyed when they take these writing shortcuts to drive the plot. I plan on very much enjoying Eda and Serkan forced to live together while they're (or at least she) is still pretending they're not going to end up together. Looks like next week is another fun romcom romp, and I'm here for it!

[coffee-n-bagels-comic-universe]

Inside Jokes and References in the Full Bios

Mainly for @spacelizardtrashboys and @kuruumiya

Also: Any time strikethrough text is used it's because it's meant to be secret information, for example on the small bios any time 'Lucifarian' truly isn't their last name their is strikethrough test after saying that it's not their real name. This is to say that no matter what is written or if it's strikethrough text or not, it is there for a reason.

Damien - Bio In-Jokes and References:

The Quote for him refers back to his 'King of Hell' gimmick, as does his middle name, Rex means king.

He's protective, like a dad, but also way too overprotective over the gimmicks for the girls. He's an old, old school guy so he enjoys card games with the boys.

He's supposed to sound like a young Hugh Laurie, mainly because if I heard a young Hugh Laurie say Damien's bio quote I wouldn't be able to take him seriously.

His main finisher (Seventh Circle) refers back to (a) him being the king of hell and (b) the seventh circle is for violence, and well, he's a wrestler, that's a pretty violent job.

He calls fans both 'peasants' and his 'loyal subjects' because he's like an asshole-ish king who'd quickly be dethroned if they rebelled.

Vickie - Bio In-Jokes and References:

The Quote for her refers back to her gimmick along with the old saying 'pride comes before the fall'.

She's called 'Victoria' because of both (a) it meaning victory and (b) the fact that Queen Victoria ruled back when Britain had an empire, then the empire fell (as in pride [Vickie] before a fall)

Both Her and Damien are born in August and are the only two to share a birth month as they are Father and Daughter (non-kayfabe, as in they share DNA)

She's raised Christian as back when she was growing up England was a lot more Christian than when she became an adult so she got lax in her beliefs

Her personality is supposed to make her come across as a vain, rich, arse of a person, yet deep down she's still redeemable, she's got a long way to go before she actually redeems herself though

She's the type of person who makes sure EVERY little detail of her matches and promos are PERFECT to the point that she will control what other people do or say, down to the moment it's said/done and the way it's said/done

She only likes the other D.O.D (Daughters of Darkness) members because she has only made enemies in the short while they've been in the company, she especially dislikes George 'The Animal' Steele because of his very messy style going against her 'everything should be perfect' views

She's the leader, the brain and the mouth because of her control over the group, if she let them have more control, there might be less arguments about her amount of control

Her named moves are also references to both her gimmick and other things. Beheader is named because of the Tudor monarchs of England having kind of a thing for killing people in this way (ex. Henry VIII).

Lineage Ender is named that because if she ever botches that one specific move (it'll make sense in context/ she does it during a training scene) it could end either her own Lineage or the person she's doing it to.

Lion's den is called that because she traps them in a near-inescapable crucifix pin, and normally if someone goes into a den of Lions, they aren't escaping in one piece.

Family Pride is named that because not only is her gimmick the sin of pride, but she's got pride in her family and she's her dad's 'pride and joy' because she's his only child.

Wish for this (her main finishing move) is called that because it's an inside joke of "you're gonna 'wish for this' to be over soon"

As she's Damien's blood daughter, a 'prodigal son' joke seemed somewhat appropriate.

Billie - Bio In-Jokes and References:

Her quote is a reference to the Guerreros and the whole 'Latin lover' trope

She was born in February because of Valentine's day, hence why her birthday is two days before the 14th

She's 1/2 Cuban (just in general - both Mexican and Cuban culture is interesting to me) But she's 1/2 Cuban in case I ever need to write for Razor Ramon, I can get away with making the joke of 'my Cuban accent's better than yours'.

Her casual style is 'Suggestive' because how else is Lust supposed to dress.

She dislikes Hulk Hogan because she finds him incredibly annoying and she dislikes Jesse Ventura because she dislikes his fashion choices.

I imagine her uncle Hugo looks like Luis Guzman and her dad's like Raul Julia. Try to imagine those two wrestling as a luchador tag team.

Her mother was basically a valet to her dad, which was usually Billie's role before she was part of the D.O.D.

Her move name references are all song references: Love me Tender - Elvis' song of the same name, Personal Aphrodite - a reference to / joke on 'Personal Jesus', Sexual Healing - Marvin Gaye's song of the same name.

Also, I hope to eventually use the joke 'The Babe, the babe with the power,' 'What power?' 'Power of voodoo' 'Who do?' 'You do' 'Do what?' 'Remind me of the babe' because of one of her commentary nicknames being 'The Babe'

P.G - Bio In-Jokes and References:

Her quote is in reference to her being greed and (right at the start of the story) her thoughts on money actually being able to buy her happiness

her surname 'Voronin' means crow, and well, crows like shiny things, like money

she wears 'fancy but simple' clothing because if she bought designer clothes she'd be in debt, but she still wants to look like she has more money than everyone else

she's cowardly in a Jimmy Hart way, she'll piss someone off during a promo and run away once she feels like she's in danger

she's a showman because she's more show than work, meaning she works exceptionally quick matches.

Her moves are basically jokes on the fact that she is greed, such as Gold-digger and Diamond Ring. However, Money Maker is also a joke on the fact that it's a facebuster and usually an actor's face is called their 'money maker'

She hates Hulk Hogan and Sgt slaughter because of how patriotic they are

Kirby - Bio In-Jokes and References:

Her quote is a reference to (a) the fact that she's Gluttony, (b) her being the only one who wears a mask constantly and (c) her basically being the group's scare tactic against people who think they can push them around.

I am planning on eventually making her a part of the machines, maybe as a valet, maybe as a wrestler, not 100% sure as of right now

Her mother is the Norwegian-Scottish one and her father is the Irish-Welsh one

She is the tallest (not the heaviest, that's Damien) but she's still 9 inches shorter than André.

She's willing to bleed hardway, but hates blading

She hates Big John Studd because of his disrespect, she hates Hulk Hogan because she thinks he's obnoxiously 'American', she dislikes Lord Alfred Hayes and Dynamite Kid because they are so insistent on calling her '1/4 Icelandic' whenever she talks about being 1/4 Norwegian. She hates Brutus Beefcake because he's just 'so, so much' energy-wise.

She's always been tall, always shorter than André though, she was 5'6" when she was 12, which is still taller than Sam, P.G and Eli.

Kirby's the best at using folk tales and mythology references in her promos and still keeping them dark and scary.

Her speaking voice is Jessica Hynes, but I imagine her singing voice (which will be important later) to be that of Deee-lite's Lady Miss Kier. On that note, I will be putting up a post on this part of the fic's canon.

Feeding Frenzy is meant to look similar to Roddy's wild punches, hence the 'frenzy' part of the name.

Organ grinder is named because it's meant to look really hard (like she's putting all her force and weight into it) as if she's grinding her opponents organs

Hungry for Blood is an in-joke of during her toughest matches she seems hungry to give the fans the sight of blood

Consummation is a joke of 'the match will soon be over, the match will soon be concluded, or consummated' not the sex-based meaning of that word.

Number of the beast, which is 666, is a reference to the 619, and is a modified 619 basically.

Vampire's Bite is a reference to her sitout jawbreaker looking like she could possibly bite someone's neck, like a vampire, as she performs the move

I didn't want to call her chops, chops, so I made a joke of 'oh it's chopping, like a butcher's knife'

Overfeeding is another basic gluttony reference. Cheshire Grin is a facelock-based joke. Let Them Eat Cake is a butt=cake joke

The ogress is a thinly-veiled way of the commentary team calling her ugly, because why else would she be the only one in a mask

Holly - Bio In-Jokes and References:

Her quote is written that way because I always wanted her to sound like she comes from New Jersey

She's very cuddly towards the rest of the D.O.D and thus gets called a teddy bear by the others

She's Pansexual because she doesn't care what your gender is, she loves people just being themselves

She's the only ginger because I've never seen a ginger wrestler from New Jersey

She was raised Catholic but lost her faith upon realising how bad gay people are treated by the church (Holly literally just goes "Y'all it is 1984, how are y'all gonna reject people based on who they love?")

Holly's very much the person who'll ask permission to cut a promo on someone but won't tell them how harsh she's going to be

She's the group's mom friend (mum friend?)

Before she started travelling with another member of the group (Holly travels with Sam a lot) she would accidentally no-show events

She does accidentally give incredibly stiff shots

Holly likes Gorilla Monsoon because their friendship is very much a weird pseudo-dad-daughter friendship, so basically, she's using him as her new dad

Her voice is Angie Harmon because I think Harmon sounds like a badass from New Jersey

Naptime, Dirt Nap and Lullaby are jokes of 'I'm gonna knock you out'

Eli - Bio In-Jokes and References:

Her quote is a joke of 'this is why she doesn't do a lot of promos'

She's the most likely to be on one of those 'too hot for TV' blooper reels from her promos

Both she and Sam hate people taller than them

Sam - Bio In-Jokes and References:

Her quote is a reference to the fact that her tattoos are her 'masterpiece'

she dresses athletically because she's always ready for a fight, especially because she's usually the one picking fights

She likes Lou because he's like a crazy uncle to her and she likes George Steele because, unlike Vickie, she likes the wild man side of his gimmick

She's voiced by Melissa Etheridge because she's still feminine but is the most masculine sounding