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joanna-lannister · 2 years

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what are your biggest asoiaf/got unpopular opinions?

Okay so, I had this reply saved in my drafts for like 2 full months now and I kept saying "I'll post it tomorrow, I'll post it tomorrow" but I always forgot in the end, until today, and I'M SO VERY SORRY NONNIE FOR THE LATE REPLY. Really wish I had the time and energy to do that before. Also, I tried to keep it short but I had a lot of things to say [as per usual, what's new?] and I ended up writing a lot, hence why I put it under the cut… 😔

Hopefully no one will come after my ass for voicing those opinions but, well... 💀💀

—Cersei truly loves Jaime: No because this is such an unpopular opinion that I have to mention it, but I won't waste too much time on that one since it's pretty obvious I think that 😂 and I've explained so many times why so I kinda feel like a broken record at this point. And if people still don't get that Cersei cared deeply about him, was worried about him to the point she let it slip when she was supposed to be careful and she died with him, oh well, I can't do nothing about it...

— Jaime and Cersei's ending was perfect: same, won't waste too much time as well here because I've said it too many times so... Anyway, their ending was flawless, both for their characters on their own and for their relationship. The ultimate perfection would have been them making it to Pentos 👌🏻 but I'm truly satisfied with what we got otherwise and frankly, that was one of the possible closure I predicted for them. My only critic on the matter would be, while the symbolic of the castle crumbling around them, blocking their way out and then collapsing on them after their relationship put the whole Kingdom into shambles was amazing [on the paper], the execution could have been better. But really, that's it. That's my only critic.

— Jaime's arc wasn't ruined: Everytime I hear they butchered his character, I want to scream at the top of my lungs. This fandom only thinks his character was butchered because he came back for the woman he loved and died with her, when *cough* that's what he wanted *cough*. The only way D&D butchered his character was when that awful, ugly fish kiss happened. Jaime, a man who always prided himself for his faithfulness fucked another woman and you are meaning to tell me that moment was totally in character? The only thing that lowkey softens my anger here is the fact he was drunk, definitely regretted it the moment he sobered up and he was emotionally struggling after his fight with Cersei. But yeah, still angry about that. And then, those people believed it would have been way more heroic, perfect good writing, for him to kill the woman he loved for decades, his sister and mother of his children? TELL ME IN WHAT WAY MURDERING YOUR PARTNER OF A LIFETIME, CARRYING YOUR UNBORN CHILD, CRYING AND SCARED FOR THEIR LIFE, CAN BE PERCEIVED AS HEROIC? This is sick and twisted, above making no sense. The mental gymnastics you have to do to reach that conclusion, wow… And that man, who was mocked over half of his life for killing the King he was supposed to protect, died doing the exact opposite and what his duty asked him to do. He died trying to save his Queen, which also happened to be the woman he loved. This denouement is way more poetic, romantic, heroic and coming full circle than the sheer, vivid violence those people wanted to see. Also, fucking stop with redemption arc. Who fucking care about redemption in a world like Westeros were [almost] no one is fully good/fully evil. And if you are so obsessed with redemption arc, go stan Theon. He is the closest one to that kind of arc.

— Cersei's sexuality: Oh well, I won't explore that point too deeply since I know my opinion here would be super unpopular here, and I'm not ready yet to have people coming after my ass for that 😬 but I still have to mention it somehow because I highly disagree with most of the takes I see out there. Some really make me roll my eyes and go "Ughhhh, you don't get her". Wish I was talking about the haters being "uwu Cersei is a whore", but I don't unfortunately, so I'm just gonna say; Cersei doesn't like sex unless it's with Jaime. That's where I stand. Anyone can make their own conclusion. To be honest, considering writing a fucking essay on the matter one day but well, there is many layers to dissect and I'm too lazy. Who knows when I'll eventually give it a shot? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

— D*ny's end made sense: LOOK, this is probably gonna be my biggest unpopular opinion in this list for obvious reasons. When you say this, people hear it as "I hate D*ny, I wanted her to DIE SO BAD and she deserved what she got" which... isn't true? I LOVE D*ny, and I sure would have loved to see her survive and thrive but if we keep the talk to a strict canon narrative argument? Her ending makes perfect sense for me, and it's so fucking frustrating to fear to be labeled as an anti or fear you'd get anon hate/death threat because your judgement is nuanced and not fully blinded by your love for a character. Anyway... [After S4,] I've never seen her winning and ruling. It was too easy, or else she would have come to the realization she had deluded herself the whole time thinking taking back the throne would "make her happy" and she would have ended up regretting her choice. Actually, I've always pictured her reaching her goal with the tip of her fingers but never fully having a hold on it because she would mess up and that, that's the tragedy of it. She turned like the people she wanted to fight. I've always pictured doing something terrible and then, realize her mistake, try to save the world to fix it and die on the way. Maybe I would have liked this ending better, I don't know because that's not what happened. But, while I do have mixed feelings about her death scene, I still find the denouement we got very cohesive with the general background history we've had about the T*rgs. Do I like the way she died in the end? Yes and no. I have a huge problem with the fact a man, who was supposed to love her, killed her. I have always agreed with the critics saying it sent a bad message to the audience and how awful this trope was for an abuse survivor to die by the hand of a man she trusted [yet, those critics kept saying it would have been perfect for Cersei to end that way 🙄 but that's another story hmm]. Now, if I make abstraction of the gender issues here, and reduce it as a pure "T*rgaryen killing another T*rgaryen" moment, yes, I do like this ending. If I can roughly sum it up that way; the T*rgaryen history is filled with either them marrying each other or fighting each other and for me, those previous events were meant to lead to the climax of having those two people, the last two members of this family, being involved in a romantic relationship, hinting and implying a possible marriage between them, but ending it with one of them killing the other and breaking the vicious pattern their dynasty has displayed over the centuries. This is the major point of why this ending makes sense for me, and why I "like" it better than a "and they lived happily ever after" ending that wouldn't have been very much fitting with the overall thematic of the show, tho I do believe the execution could have been better and less rushed. Another reason why I like it is the fact Jon and D*ny stood right where Jaime and Ned stood back in 1x03 and Jaime mentioned this was the spot where A*rys killed Ned's brother and father. This was an amazing callback to Jon's duality between his Stark and T*rgaryen sides and a formidable nod to that past scene and that event. As I said I've mixed feelings and I had a lot of thoughts over the past 2 years about that scene because I'm bothered about the romance aspect in the storyline but if I watch it through the lense of the T*rgaryen history [and unfortunately that romantic aspect is already present here which is yikes, but I wish they would have fallen out of love first and no trust would have been involved] and the narrative, without biased feelings toward the characters, it was the best and most consistent way to wrap it up. Also, last but not least, I don't think D*ny went mad. The other characters and the people of Westeros/King's Landing could picture her that way but us, as an audience, I don't think we were meant to think of her as "going mad". We followed her through her journey and we know, at the core, she wanted to do good, but her actions ended up being driven by her flaws and her breaking down after years of trauma and the loss of two loved ones in a short span of time. I don't see madness here, but only a human being who went through a lot and messed up.

— Ol*nna was an hypocrite, worshiped by the fandom for the wrong reasons: Rip to Lady Diana Rigg, she was an amazing actress and truly did a great work at portraying Ol*nna, but Ol*nna? Oh Ol*nna, to simply put it into words, she was a FAKE ASS BITCH. Her motive was the same as [almost] everyone else in this show, aka get her blood on the throne, and to achieve it, she plotted over and over again no matter the chain of events it would cause to the rest of Westeros. She expressed no remorse for the terrible things she did. She saw them as crucial for her family's survival [which is... fair] but when Cersei acted the same way as she did, for similar reasons, she judged her actions as far worse and evil. Her last scene with Jaime is a blatant example of her hypocrisy. And I'm sorry but... she still killed a teenage boy in front of his parents! No, Joffrey wasn't innocent and yes, he was a problem but he was still a child. And she didn't do it to protect the people of Westeros from his tyranny, that part was sure a fortunate consequence of her deed and one of the reasons why people like her. No, the main reason why she did it was to protect the granddaughter she was using as a pawn [tho with her consent and support] to reach her goal. And when Cersei did the same thing with her grandchildren because they were a threat for her and her family, Ol*nna had the nerve to play the victim and whined "Cersei killed my grandchildren, so mean 🙁". Yeah, and? You killed her son in the first place, and it's not like your granddaughter acted the way she did out of the goodness of her heart so...? Then, she framed two innocent people for Joffrey's murder, one being a teenage girl she manipulated, and she targeted another teenage boy because he was more malleable and far less dangerous than his brother to get what she wanted. Yet, this fandom keeps depicting her [and the T*rells in general] as the paradigm of feminism and good people. How on earth those schemes can be interpreted as them being better people than the Lannisters, or any other family fighting for the throne? Because her methods could be considered as less brutal and more sugar-coated? That's just a plain lack of critical thinking. Her actions, rooted in greedy ambitions for her family, still had painful consequences on others. And believing a woman could rule as much as a man isn't enough to give her the award of the feminist of the year, especially when she contented herself with the tools a patriarcal society like Westeros gave her and she had no specific regard for other women, unless it benefited her. Oh and then, this fandom loves and praises her for her sharp tongue, which is kind of hilarious because, every words coming out of her mouth were at the expense of other characters and kept showing her true colors and how entitled her personality was; she spoke to her servant as if he was nothing else but some kind of dog, mocked Br*enne's appearance, constantly belittled Cersei, made fun of the pain and struggles Jaime felt as a result for a crime she commited... And that's a few examples. People enjoyed her diatribes and never looked past it. Never reflected on how her words were in total contradiction with the way they portrayed her. But oh, yeah it's making you laugh so who cares? But in real life, no one would appreciate her presence. She would be considered as the stereotype of the old, bitter lady who could hit you with her cane. In the end, I do find her character very interesting, and I'm not really blaming her for doing what she did because I get her motivations and she was doing the same as everyone else, but I can't stand her hypocrisy and I surely can't stand how this fandom puts her on some kind of pedestal as if everything she did was for the greater good of Westeros.

— the fandom shitting on D&D when G*RM is no better: Oh well, another opinion that would get my GoT stan card revoked 😂✋🏻 No but, I'm so, so exhausted of people whining about how "D&D ruined the show, how they ruined this character or this storyline blablabla..." as if for years, they didn't enjoy the show D&D gave us and forgot all the good moments we had, how we have been blown away by some scenes, cried, feared, laughed, ect... This is purely and simply spitting in the soup. Do I think some critics are valid or justified? Yes, I do. I don't think the show is perfect. Some narrative choices rub me in the wrong way, the writing could have definitely been improved here and here, and I'm totally fine with someone complaining about something they disliked or bothered them because well, same. BUT, there is a huge difference between calling out an aspect of the show you find "problematic", or pointing out a storyline could have been executed in a better way, and being CONSTANTLY NEGATIVE about everything to the point you are criticizing every tiny, little detail. This constant negativity, as if the whole show has to be thrown away, is simply unbearable. Navigating in a fandom that focuses and thrives only on the things they hate and how bitter they are brings nothing but toxicity and no enjoyment. And I'm sorry but, enjoyment should be the major reason why you are active in a fandom in the first place. What irks me the most in all of this tho, is probably how some people go stating things like "D&D are two white men who love using harmful and sexist tropes against their female characters [for shock value], and enjoy seeing them being hurt and have no other ideas what else to do with them but giving them those storylines" [and I'm not saying I fully disagree with that statement, right?] but the next second, those same people go the other way around and praise GR*M, saying they'll stick to the books because he won't do that. As if he isn't also a white man who has a weird obsession with the breast of his female characters, whose views of consent are more than questionable and he didn't use those tropes himself and wrote countless of women being abused, raped, assaulted, dying in childbirth in the series... And yes, sure, you can say he means to "subvert" those tropes and they are supposed to condemn an ultra patriarchal society like Westeros. Okay. But is it really necessary to have almost every female character we encounter, even the minor ones we barely know anything about except they have been abused one way or another, being tormented by those tropes to get to that conclusion? Is it? We know how misogynistic the Westeros society and mindset are, we know the terrible effects it has on those women. WE KNOW. Do we need to have so many of them endure sexual violence and gendered death when showing their lack of agency would have already been sufficient to prove they are oppressed, victims of this society, and not valued as much as men? So if you blame D&D for using those tropes, why not be critical of GR*M as well for OVER using them, when after all, the source material for the show are still his books? And I'm willing to bet, no matter how people are arguing about how the show strayed from the books that, some events will end up being very similar, and maybe even more violent. I've seen some fans calling him out on those issues, though the large majority of the fandom still turns a blind eye on it. And don't get me wrong, I definitely think his phenomenal worldbuilding and the wide range of characters he created deserve the praise he gets. I'm more on the fence about his writing, in terms of how his wording can be heavy, but that's more a question of personal taste and in the end, I'm not a books stan. But when I read those critics toward D&D, only for them to say GR*M "would do better", when his work is filled everywhere with those tropes, I see red. And I know I've already mentioned that in the past but, I also do find it a bit amusing when someone points out those issues in D&D's writing yet, in the same breath, claims a female character they hate should have met a painful and horrific death with undertone of sexual violence in it. But yeah, it's shock value for a woman you love but not for a woman you hate? Try to find the logic here. So yes, I do have my issues with D&D sometimes, but I'm not the kind who will focus solely on them because I'm here to enjoy my time first and foremost and basking in negativity does no good to me.

— Ob*ryn is overrated: he has that "Lexa effect", the character is charming and witty and became a huge fan-favorite. Don't get me wrong, I do like him as well, and while his presence and death are important to some storylines, he was meant to be only in few episodes. His popularity reached a point where he overshadowed some characters who were main characters, here from the beginning, and you see him as well as the actor [no offense to P*dro, I like him too and good for him for being successful] EVERYWHERE. It's just too much for a character that has been only in one season and at this point, I've literally blacklisted his name almost everywhere. Sorry, not sorry 😬

— Joffrey's behavior was because of his upbrinbing, not [only] the incest: Not sure if it's unpopular but, a big part of the fandom tends to put the blame on Jaime and Cersei's incest for Joffrey's behavior which… I highkey disagree. While I do believe the incest favored the path for him to be difficult and have anger issues, his upbringing is the major reason why he turned out this way. Yes, Cersei is partly to blame for spoiling him and letting him do whatever he wanted but she is not the most responsible for it. R*bert is. And to be honest, I think a big part of Cersei's endorsement toward Joffrey's behavior comes from the abuse she [and Joffrey] suffered under his hand. As the first child and heir to the throne, Joffrey was on the front row to see how "his father" treated his mother. He witnessed how abusive their relationship was, witnessed his supposed father doing whatever he wanted because he was the King and cared little about anything else but hunting, whores and wine. He saw it as something normal and once he had a crown on his head, he tried to repeat that very same pattern. But with no proper limits being set and a lack of teaching him the difference between good and bad, that behavior blew out of proportion. Though, you can already see him reproducing that pattern from early childhood. I think the incident with the cat is a blatant example of it. Lowkey wish they had mentioned that moment in the show because it's definitely helpful to understand Joffrey's personality. We don't have his POV, we can only make suppositions on why he acted out this way, but it's not far stretched to believe when he heard of the cat [+filled with twisted curiosity, I guess 😬], he probably thought he could stir up R*bert's interest in him by emulating the behavior he was displaying during his hunting parties. There is no way Joffrey never heard that man raving at least once about those parties and what happened here. And that child craved his "father's" affection and attention. Something R*bert never gave. Trying to show he inherited the same enthusiasm for hunting as the man he admired by bringing him the kittens was, in his child mind, confused about the notion of hunting and equalling it as a mere act of killing animals, to eventually get this attention and approval he craved, but the only answer was to be abused, with no further explanation on why that act was a cruel thing. Witnessing all of this, going through those abuses himself, with no real healthy way to cope and no boundaries, fuelled his issues and paved the way for what he became. I also firmly believe Joffrey might have sensed deep down Jaime was his real father. Probably even before the rumors started but, when they began to spread and became public [and we know he heard about them since he mentioned it to Cersei in 2x01], acting like the man he beared the name was a way to reassure himself he wasn't only his son on the paper, but his blood also ran in his veins. In a different world, raised by two parents who love each other and care for him [definitely on the side that, if Jaime had been allowed to raise him, he would have loved him dearly and I have a lot of thoughts about Jaime and fatherhood but that's for another day, duh whatever…], Joffrey would have ended up being a very different child. Still difficult, entitled and flawed, but a tad more like Myrcella and Tommen.

— I hate the black haired baby boy storyline and any theory related to it: even more if we are talking about the "Gendry is the black haired baby" theory because, while I do think it's pretty clever, GOD FUCK NO, NO, NO. I don't want Cersei to have the child of her abuser, I loathe this idea. As I stated, I'm not a books fan, but if there is (1) thing I wish D&D would have stick to, it would be Cersei's abortion. I've read people saying that storyline has been made to humanize her [🙄] but I've never seen D&D themselves mention it. I have a theory on why they actually did it, but I wish instead they had either wrote that pregnancy out or made Joffrey the one being sick, which would have been much more interesting to play on Cersei's fear, fuelled her protectiveness and also totally made [more] understable her endorsement toward Joffrey's behavior [tho I'm not sure people actually get it in the first place]. Plus in the following seasons, it made no sense? I'm not talking about the prophecy because, I guess if you twist the witch's words, it makes sense this baby wouldn't count since he never lived past infancy. But on the other hand, he was never brought up again? And Cersei was like "you never love anything in the world the way you love your first child" while talking about Joffrey, which is what? But in the end, first, it diminishes her revenge on R*bert to not give him the heir he expected and second and mostly, it's a lack of understanding in Cersei's quest to regain agency over her own body by having the children of the man she loves instead of her abuser. And frankly, if I have to bring up this moment in a fic, even if I always follow the show!canon, I'd definitely switch this storyline for the books one here for those reasons.

— putting the characters either into the hero or villain's box is too simplistic: not sure that one is very unpopular but, everytime I see someone calling a character a hero or a villain, I have to roll my eyes. Except for one or two characters I would consider as truly evil, I feel like labeling "this character is good/evil" is erasing their complexity? We follow them through their journeys, we see them at their best and at their worst, their struggles, we witness how the society they live in impacts them, the reason behind their good or bad actions and the consequences it has on them and the others around them in a world where survival is the keyword here. They are morally grey characters, some darker than others, but still very much nuanced. I've said it before but, this show was always about human nature at the core, I have always watched it this way, and defining those characters, who are driving the story, simply as either good or bad would mean stripping the show of his heart and falling back into the insipid cliché of "the hero vs the villain". Those clichés are not reflecting the complexity of human nature. They aren't. They are worthy for a basic fantasy story, not for the one they were meant to tell us. So yes, I firmly believe those characters, who can do good as much as they can do bad, are above being interpreted as a hero or a villain. Agree on the other hand on calling them protagonist or antagonist, something that would differ from one character POV to another.

— I don't like very much Cersei's crown as Queen Regnant: I'm ending this list with a lowkey funny and maybe surprising one but… I have to admit I never really liked Cersei's crown 😭 I'm not sure actually what's the general opinion on it but I've seen lot of merch for that crown over the years [and ngl, I was tempted to give in and buy one because Cersei and I'm weak…] so I guess people like it but I don't? The design is, in my opinion, utterly ugly. The shape looks so sloppy, as if it had been done in haste? I find it far from elegant or graceful for a Queen. And while I do have a headcanon about that crown, I somehow think they could have done a better job and fashioned it in a different way to represent the mane of a lion? I've seen so many people complaining about Cersei's gowns in S7 when I ABSOLUTELY love them [except for one that I find heavy and lacking delicacy]. They are opulent, but not too much. It's obvious there is a lot of work and effort put behind the design of those gowns but then, at the top of her head, you have that.. thing. Sure, it matches the overall color scheme of her outfits but it feels like such a contrast with the fashion of her gowns. And I wouldn't have minded if they had wanted to keep the crown simple. Too much adornment gives too much information and can quickly look all over the place, something far from pleasing to the eyes, and for me, it's actually the opposite of luxury. Having the crown clean of any gem or other frilly thing was a good idea to keep her silhouette balanced but here, the shape doesn't even look simple. It looks unfinished, rustic and poor. And for the most powerful woman in the Realm, it's embarrassing the symbol of her power looks like a banal twisted piece of metal. SHE DESERVED A BETTER CROWN!

#i have a few more but they are more jc focused #so i guess that's for another day #sorry for how long this reply is 💀#anon #answered

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