#“oh but children” if a child is consuming media clearly not aimed at them that is not the creators fault or responsibility

[lazer-exe]

the one thing i don't understand when people are like,,, against writing abt "problematic" topics is that they'll read a piece and be like "This is problematic, you can't write this, because people will think it's okay"

but like... you read it.... and you were able to infer that it wasn't depicting a good thing..????

why, then, wouldn't other people be able to do that as well? do you think you're uniquely able to spot negative things in art even if they aren't explicitly portrayed as such? do you think that other adult people are incapable of also reading this and recognizing when something is or isn't okay in real life?

[ultraericthered]

Hmm? Oh yeah, this one blogger gave a big response to both me and some other user who was saying stuff in the notes of her post. Seeing as she was decent and sensible enough to recognize that if we want to live and let live with our differing opinions, she probably should've at least done so behind a different tag and thus away from fans of the thing she was railing against, I in turn will put my rebuttal in this separate post on this blog and I will try to tag it appropriately.

That said, WOW. There is quite a lot of whinging to unpack here.

But, thanks for not bothering to actually listen to my argument, so let me go through your own:

"Not bothering?" It was not due to a lack of trying on my part that I failed to actually listen to this person's argument, I was legitimately confused and trying to make sense of what she was even saying.

No. I’m not saying Disney adults shouldn’t enjoy crap that was clearly made for them. Believe me, I knew some of that was already the case with Wish and I was excited for it being made for us…and I was disappointed by it. I wanted to like Mirrorverse but it just kept feeling wrong to me and the og post is the wording of what and how it was wrong to me.

Pulling out the term "Disney adults", even if applying it to herself as well, is an automatic alarm for me. It's a term that's very cynical and partonizing in origin, conceptualizing the idea that all things "Disney" are things that a person is expected to outgrow once they've reached adulthood, as though Disney produces things only for children. And sure, they make things that are purely for little kids or at most geared more towards them than to an older crowd. But primarily, on the whole, Disney content and the quality they most strive for are what we call "family friendly" rather than "kids stuff", and to assume that such content is kiddy fare that's meant to be outgrown by adults is completely against the spirit and the words of Walt Disney himself.

"I do not make films primarily for children. I make them for the child in all of us, whether we be six or sixty." - Walt Disney

"We believed in our idea - a family park where parents and children could have fun - together." - Walt Disney

"Too many people grow up. That's the real trouble with the world, too many people grow up. They forget. They don't remember what it's like to be 12 years old. They patronize, they treat children as inferiors. Well, I won't do that." - Walt Disney

Yeah, you should get the picture by now.

I’m saying I find your uncritical devotion to the company, not the writer behind the projects, the company, is sad. It’s self-destructive.

Oh sure, I am uncriticially devoted to this mega corporation. So uncritical in my devotion am I that I've tagged posts or reblogs that address erorrs, poor quality content, and even harmful practices of the company as "Anti Disney" and have even likened the corporate side of Disney to their newest movie's villain many times at this point.

I really hate this kind of attitude towards fandom+online criticism as a whole. This 100% unironic “if you’re negative = HATE” attitude...that I can at least get because even the most pissy of us don’t wanna be surrounded by rage all the time. But, your complete lack or willing to consume any media critically? That’s annoying.

Reminder of how OP began their "critical" post: "I hate Disney's Mirrorverse so much." Please forgive me for where, how, and why I might've possibly gotten that "negativity = HATE" idea from here.

That literally was NOT what I was saying at all hon. Official merch is fine and a lot is great. Like, a lot. I don’t consider official merch itself a threat to fanstuff; what I consider a threat is the higher up of Disney wanting to snuff out fantasy-fan made merch.

Where was it confirmed that the higher up of Disney were specifically aiming to snuff out fan-made content with the very creation and release of Mirrorverse? I must've missed that press conference!

ALL I see with that game is creativity of individual people wasted on a corporate IPlords who wants to crush smaller artists inspired by them, and even their own workers. Disney does not care about you. Disney doesn’t even care for it’s own people. Disney wants to own fanworks so that they can profit off you even more than they already do. And, to me, that’s just kind of horrifying.

In other words, King Magnifico. Yeah, I already got that.

Are you saying you don’t have an imagination? Because A: no. You do have one. Obviously. Liking what some people may think is “cringe” =/= no imagination and I SINCERELY hope you didn’t take that away from my post.

Yes, obviously I have an imagination. I am unsure what it was that made this person think I was suggesting I didn't.

And then she starts getting more hyperbolic and a bit conspiratorial.

We are in a late stage capitalism apocalypse. My argument isn’t that Disney DARE'ENT be what it is but that you should use your brains when it’s pandering to you and not just like it because 'poepl worked on it whichm means it’s good.

"Poepl"? "which?" Slurred words sure do look weird in text form.

You are not mandated to like something and your attitude, to me, frankly feels like that’s why you do like Mirrorverse. Disney is telling you to like it and you’re blinded by this delusion that the company itself is on your side simply because it has Disney fans as it’s own writers and artists working on it. I want to be proven wrong on that and believe you’re like my friends who also like mirrorverse and the modern crossover disney stuff - people who like the ideas within because yeah, that can be fun, and whom I just disagree with, but given your attitude. I don’t see it.

.....Huh??? For as inappropriately big and powerful a company as Disney is today, I do not think they have the authority to literally mandate that people must like their products and that they then must consume them because they like them. Disney has put plenty of stuff out on the free market that they no doubt wanted people to like (because otherwise why even make anything at all? People liking thing made by company = people spending money on that thing and company profiting), but I've not cared for or not even touched, no matter how many sincere, well-meaning people might've worked hard on making the stuff. Mirrorverse caught my attention way back when it was first announced and still undergoing development, and when I ended up liking it, it wasn't because "Disney was telling me to like it" or that I was blinded by any delusion of the company being good or "on my side" - I like it because I JUST DO. It appeals to me and my tastes, sensibilities, and ideas of what's good, clean, creative fun, not to mention being another Disney epic crossover property to fill the void left behind by the now garbage tier Kingdom Hearts series. And even then I'm far from uncritical in my liking for it: it existing as just a mobile app game puts some limitations on it, and the combat part of the game looks like ass and doesn't play quite as well as it could've, especially compared to the polish of other app games like Disney Heroes: Battle Mode and Disney; Sorcerer's Arena. (Now, my attitude may well have gone too far beyond disagreeable and came off as too hostile, confrontational, and uncivil in my dissent against your take, so for that I apologize. I'm sorry, that really was my bad. But given all this rambling, your attitude is now worrying me.)

Fan merch is not perfect or even all that good, but it comes from a point of passion. My point was never that fan made = good. My point was I think Disney the company wants control of even that and, when they are hiring the artists who have genuine ideas about crossovers, are exploiting them. It’s *cute* of you to call me entitled when you sound like one of the most entitled people ever through your message.

I fail to see how I come off as "entitled", as though I was saying that Disney the company has every right to control imaginative fan ideas and to hire and exploit artists with similar ideas just for profit. I was not; I was saying that I'm not in agreement with this paranoid belief that this is what prompted the existence of Mirrorverse to start with. Most of the driving ideas behind why the game came to be seems to have come from the creatives who work for both Disney and Kabam, with Disney merely signing off on it becoming an officially lisenced thing because the company is so ceaselessly hungering for profits that they can never have enough app games or console games that bring their beloved IPs together in a single fantastical new canon.

You are assigning shit to me that I did not say/mean.

For that, I apologize. Please stop doing the exact same thing to me. Two wrongs do not make a right.

I’m upset on the part of the writers and artists at Disney (btw can you please maybe list some of them out? The mirrorverse artists could probably really use the revenue you’re so quick to only attribute to Disney as if Disney itself is the writer of these works.) 

But you can find them all right here.

I believe Wish was made/written with love. Every Disney project is made with love and creativity and I think it’s horrible to imply that Wish was AI-generated because it’s writing came up as lackluster, if that’s what you’re trying imply of me.

Dunno why Wish is suddenly getting brought into this. Was it my current icon being King Magnifico that put it into focus?

My issue with Wish, with Mirrorverse, and with a lot of modern Disney projects is at this point the same I am having with Illumination entertainment; and that’s not ever that “capitalist = bad”/“idea I don’t like = bad writer”. For as annoyed I still am at Princess and the Frog, you really go that feeling the the writers were trying and the project as a whole wasn’t geared by executives telling the directors “no. You have to do x, x, x, and x because then it won’t sell.” Mirrorverse had a soul. Wish had soul. Bob Chapek stole both these properties’ souls and you’re using hardworking artists’ work as an excuse to continue promoting the craphole who’s overworking them.

Bob Chapek is long gone from Disney at this point: Bog Iger is still dealing with the aftereffects of the damage Chapek did while making his own mistakes and dealing out his own share of damage to the overworked artists, writers, directors, imagineers, and all creative staff members who give their hearts and souls to Disney productions. I'm not using the artists' work as an excuse to promote or grant any lenience to corporate Disney. It's actually the very opposite: I don't want them and all the effort they put into realizing these properties to go overlooked and unappreciated due to some instinctful (and oftentimes reasonably justified) dislike and dissatisfaction directed at the company whose brand name the properties get released under. That's something akin to "collective punishment", and it reaches toxic levels when it is also applied towards the punishment and shaming of regular people; of fans who engage with the products and express any sort of enjoyment and appreciation for them. Like them doing so is an objectively morally wrong thing to do and is playing into the big bad company's hands.

My issue is that the fans (artists, creators and writers of these works) care. Disney does not. Disney cares about exploiting you even in the smallest ways and even on small matters like bad bootleg merch that’s in no way a threat to them. Because it isn’t.

This is an issue I have with Disney as well. I've said so ad nauseum.

My issue with the two of you is that you hate criticism and see my post as some kind of threat to your special interest. No. It’s not. I never even tagged mirrorverse. This is a rant meant for me and for other likeminded people like me. Speaking as a woman who’s defended and still will defend Frozen all these years - YOU are coming off as the most entitled, zealous people. You are creative. And you love Disney and obviously like Mirrorverse and Wish where I don’t; unlike the artists behind these products, you don’t have room to complain about being disgarded or treated like AI cuz I don’t like your writing or Disney’s handling of your writing- you’re just a butthurt fan.

More hyperbole. There was no "threat" detected in her post. There was only an opinion I read as a bad faith poor take and I responded to it with a rebuttal like this social media platform allows us all to do. By getting so up in arms and defensive about the rebuttal that rather than try to clear the air with a post that only clarifies what she was meaning to convey in the OP and that if I still don't find it agreeable we can hopefully agree to disagree, she goes on a whole whopping tangent? This strikes me as "butthurt fan" behavior. I'm sorry, it does.

Presuming the both of you ever read any of this, I don’t like the insinuation that my own bitching and moaning it hurting the hardworking writers and artists personally just because the fans of these overall products love them and I don’t. I really don’t like my personal criticisms being hurled at or treated like an attack on the people who are real artists. I know that’s not what I’m doing. You could have just blocked my blog or chosen to just not read the post the moment this post opened with “I hate mirrorverse”. You didn’t. You engaged and now I’m engaging to tell you that I disagree.

Yes, let us dispell that insinuation. You are hurting no one by bitching and moaning in a post put out on a public social media venue on the internet, not the writers and artists, not the company. I'd not meant to insinuate as much, and anyone who would make that insinuation would be a fool to do so. Thank you for acknowleding that you led with "I hate Mirrorverse", which made the negativitiy and criticism easier to mistake for hatefulness. I make it a rule to typically not block blogs as my first response to seeing something I disagree with, which is sadly more than I can say of other users who've disagreed with me in the past. I decided to engage you, then you engaged back, and now this is me engaging back in my own space to save your's the trouble of being too cluttered up with this dispute. If you happen to come across this and read it through, I hope you can try to take time for contemplation and understanding of where I'm coming from here, and I'd so the same in turn for you should you give a civil response. But given how I'm tagging this, chances lean unlikely.