#“dont mind me im just checking if my gun still has ammo”

[fox-from-fairytale]

Thanks to the Garcias, even in the apocalypse Clementine had the possibility to experience that awkward moment when you're at your friend house and his family starts arguing

[comicteaparty]

September 7th, 2017 CTP Archive

The archive for the Comic Tea Party chat that occurred on September 7th, 2017, from 5PM - 7PM PDT.  The chat focused on Shades of Men by Jrej.

Featured Comment:

Chat:

RebelVampire

Good day everyone~! This week’s Comic Tea Party is now officially beginning. Today we are discussing Shades of Men by Jrej~! (https://tapas.io/series/ShadesOfMen-Pages) For those new to CTP, discussions about the comic are freeform, so please feel free to bring up whatever you wish. However, every 30 minutes I will be dropping in a discussion question to help those who would like a prompt. These questions are totally OPTIONAL to answer so pay them no mind if you wish~! Remember, constructive criticism is allowed, but the primary focus here is to have fun and appreciate the amazing comics that the community makes~! Each chat a top comment will be picked and featured on an ad for this chat, so let’s have a great discussion~! With that said, let us begin with this first question~!

QUESTION 1. What is your favorite scene in the comic so far and why?

for me i think my favorite scene is more a series of scenes where they first meet david and try to teach him the ropes of being on the streets. especially when they hit the moment where they cant get shelter for the night so actually have to sleep on the streets. the contrast really impacted me quite a lot

i also liked how it showed some of the warmer side to lev and ricky since they took it in a rather positive stride. i know if i had been in david's shoes, i wouldve been really hit with a brick of reality in that moment

mathtans

Bit late, as per typical for me. Favorite scene... possibly where Lev sees that fax? It throws everything into a bit of a new light, which I usually find interesting, new perspectives and all.

Though I gather the author hadn't expected it to be that big of a deal from glancing at the comments.

RebelVampire

really? i didnt look at the comments and now im curious

mathtans

Yeah, the ropes thing was well portrayed too. I think the way the artwork is done kind of helps with showing the difficulties, somehow... gritty? Words fail me.

Now I'm double checking... oh, the author said they hadn't thought it would be a key moment of the story when starting, but it is.

I only read on tapas this time, not the author's personal site.

I know Tenor read too, I saw a comment near the end. ^.^

RebelVampire

thats okay i read it on tapas too. i just read via the link i was given unless theres situations like with tangled river where there was that page that didnt load.

idk if id say the artwork was gritty personally speaking cause of seen grittier. but i do think the artwork fits really well and has a dark and bleak quality to it

mathtans

Fair enough. I found myself with less free time this week too. ^.^ Made it to the end though.

RebelVampire

to express the bleak quality of life

mathtans

Yeah, gritty's the wrong word... eugh... like... sombre? Maybe it's the colour choices.

RebelVampire

sombre might be a good way to put it

i do think its the color choices cause something about the pallette makes the world feel....kind of mute

mathtans

Mute's a real good word, considering Lev. ^^

The other thing about that reward for David thing, it actually misdirected me a bit. I thought they guys would be trying to track him down, to get the reward money for him to save Ricky. Instead they did the hotel heist.

Lev's got character, gotta give him that, he hasn't said anything about it yet.

RebelVampire

oh that wouldve been an interesting prospect. i honestly did not consider that. i was waiting for something a bit more cliche. like david showing back up of his own freewill like "im sorry lev i was mad lets save ricky dramatic tears "

mathtans

I was wondering a little about that, but considering what the guy had just experienced, I felt like they'd have to stumble on David. Rather than him seeking them out. And possibly getting a gun in his face again.

I would not like that, but then, I'm really not a fan of guns.

Which makes me kind of torn about the comic, because on the one hand, guns are not tools to solve problems, but on the other hand, the homeless guys are kind of responsible in using them and I liked the acknowledgement about conserving ammo.(edited)

RebelVampire

yeah honestly i kind of appreciated david left and didnt comeback. cause i felt that was a bit more true to life. since its not like ricky and lev are bffs with him just for showing him the ropes. theyre more like helpful strangers. and if you meet strangers who get you beat up, probably best not to hang with those people

mathtans

The other kind of true to life thing was how not everybody was immediately on board with Lev and his plans. Some thought things were going too far -- and even before the casino some thought that. I liked that perspective.

I also suspected they'd have at least one casualty, to keep things realistic. Expectations met there.

RebelVampire

i felt really sad for the guy who died. but on the otherhand it was well-deserved in the sense the hobos were in way over their heads. like that went beyond too far XD the fact any of them survived is a miracle(edited)

mathtans

Yeah... I feel like Lev was once in the military though? Or guerrilla warfare? Like, I wonder if his apparent dementia (seeing people as lions) is related to previous experiences.

He knows things, is what I'm getting at. But he got tired of explaining things to people. Maybe.

Now I wonder how he ended up in Paris.

RebelVampire

i feel like Lev had at least used a gun before. it didnt feel like it was his first rodeo. but then again using a gun isnt rocket science persay if in an emergency situation. not to say theyd be mega skilled in those situations and would understand good gun safety. just guns are still pretty easy to use, so idk how much to assume of Lev's skills.

Tenor

I'M LATE AND ON MOBILE BUT I'M HERE???

mathtans

Yay Tenor!

RebelVampire

welcome Tenor

all are welcome

mathtans

Yeah... maybe it was also the whole "we don't leave anybody behind". I dunno. Just a vibe.

RebelVampire

QUESTION 2. One of the main characters of the comic, Lev, is a very mysterious person. He doesn’t speak much, and nobody seems to know his background story that well. What do you think happened in Lev’s life that made him the person he is? Why do you think Lev lives on the streets? Why would he not speak to anybody for so many years? What inspires his loyalty towards Ricky that he’d go to such extreme lengths to help him?

mathtans

You segued that beautifully

RebelVampire

Tenor

And for question 1: my favorite scene has got to be the rescue scenes, mostly as they are poorly constructed and entirely chaotic - which perfectly fits a band of misfits trying to do things they have never done. It takes away from the cliche of heroes always suceed/are lucky/seem to know what they are doing despite doing it a first time and I really liked that

mathtans

Tenor - You mean like when they saved each other from the gun runners, or when they charged in to save Ricky, or generally...?

RebelVampire

yeah i really enjoy that a lot of the rescue scenes have this vibe of like them saying "i saw someone on tv do it like this yolo"

Tenor

2: my bets is either involved, or blames himself, for the loss of someone. He does seem to show hallucinations and strikes me like he suffers from quite a bit of PTSD.

Specifically the hotel scene

Just "well" lmao

mathtans

As to Lev... darned if I know. I feel like he's got that kind of military vibe (maybe it's a PTSD thing I'm sensing, yeah), and a desire to help people who look a certain way (David) or who are good to him (Ricky). Maybe he'll spill to the person he's sitting with on the bench.

In the most recent update, I mean.

Tenor

I'm betting hell spill after he catches david, persobally

Use yourself as a living example for why shut isn't all roses

mathtans

Like, Lev was all "no problem just get me something like a weapon and I'll pull a spiderman". That comes with training, not watching cartoons.

Tenor

Right.

mathtans

Tenor: Good point. Might be a while before David comes back into it though... looking like they'll have to track him down to clear Lev's name.

RebelVampire

i always wondered if lev was in trouble for not paying those hospital bills.

mathtans

Huh. I didn't even think about that. What is the French medical care system like?

(I've actually been there, but not to a hospital, fortunately. Which reminds me, nice depiction of Paris.)

Tenor

And to address on an earlier point: guns can be harder to use correctly than you'd think. He'd have to have known how to turn off safety on all those weapons, how to put ammo in them, how to reliably aim, some of those weapons depending on make and model you need to KNOW. (Look up the wrist breaker lmao). So I'd say at least an occupation around them, yes.

mathtans

Yeah, it's not like the homeless guys can ask Siri.

Tenor

Bc strength of the knock back can duck you up, dislocated shoulders, etc

Fff

mathtans

thinks A bit of a tangent, but have we seen female characters?

Tenor

Slowly making my way to a pc

I think a few headshots

RebelVampire

but side characters. nobody major i think cause i mean, the comic is called shades of men

so i think its pretty clear what its focus is XD

mathtans

Yeah, good point about the title. Guess I was wondering about females and the military suddenly. There's that new character in the latest update though too.

Tenor

TBF men could imply humanity as well.

RebelVampire

true. that could be a double underlying meaning. like a story focusing on men but also about the condition of humanity as a whole

mathtans

Lev being in the hospital means he must be in a database now?

(Sorry I'm all over the place.)

Tenor

It's ok xD

mathtans

I think some of the humanity thing comes across with how the characters are generally treated too.

RebelVampire

see this is a thing im really curious about. how did the hospital know his name? like is he carrying a form of ID on him?(edited)

cause i dont get the sense he wound up at the hospital of his own accord

Tenor

He was also unconcious at time of 'registration'.

So yeah, he has to have been known if not carrying an ID.

mathtans

No, someone brought him in... I think we saw them in the background as Lev was sneaking out. I guess I assumed he did have some sort of ID. He grabbed his clothes while escaping.

But yeah, three months later and no one's followed up on that.

Goes a bit to the theme of homeless people being treated as "invisible".

RebelVampire

well to be fair its not like they have endless resources to find him. the police clearly cant even find him if they have to broadcast about his being a kidnapping suspect

mathtans

Except the newscasters mentioned Lev. Does he have a police record?

There is that. And he's good at hiding.

What with not making much noise.

Tenor

I figured he might have been seen in the images of David from the ...catacombs?

And there was assumption based on that, since David looked pretty beaten then.

(But they still got his name, so, yeah, maybe still a record)

mathtans

I wonder if Lev has family?? Ricky mentioned family. Maybe Lev's family died, and that's why he's so traumatized and wanted to help David.

Well, when Lev, David and Ricky were doing their singing, people had camera phones. I figured the association came from that.

RebelVampire

oh yeah thats def how he became a suspect. its a mystery how they put a name to a face tho. he could have a record. but its also not like being homeless makes you disappear out of the systems. systems will still show you exist if you know the name or number.

so hard to say

i do think lev's family must of died

thats usually something that tears one apart and puts them on the street

mathtans

Also, not sure if it's a tiny plot hole, but after making a whole deal to David about not sitting in someone else's reserved spot... they go and play somewhere that's off limits. Without kind of giving him the heads up about the running.

Maybe Lev is a version of David back from the future. (Just because we haven't had any theories that are real crazy yet.)

RebelVampire

ah then theres the answer. Lev/David from the future is devastated by the loss of the cat

as a cat lover, nothing better happen to that cat O_O

i will be so sad

mathtans

Hah. Could David's parents be dead though, I wonder?

Like, we don't know who he was actually living with. Some guy who's forgetful about keys, and a cat.

Equally possible I'm forgetting something obvious.

RebelVampire

i feel like they showed david's parents in the broadcast

mathtans

Did they say it was his parents? Or maybe he's adopted?

RebelVampire

hmmm or maybe not

mathtans

Also, why'd the change the locks on the house if they wanted him to come home??

Or was David lying about it being the right key?

RebelVampire

well if they suspected kidnapping thatd be reason to change them

cause they couldve thought someone broke into the house

Tenor

I think it was his dad in the broadcast

mathtans

I suppose that's true. But wouldn't they have an alarm system too after that? Well, maybe not.

I'll buy it; I don't remember the broadcast so well.

Shady David is shady.

Tenor

He could also be from an incredible abusive home.

mathtans

Oh, that's very true.

Tenor

So he ran away but of course to say THAT implies they did something wrong so they're saying he was kidnapped.

RebelVampire

hmmm but maybe not. i cant see anything in the broadcast. i might be thinking of a different scene.

well to be fair now that im relooking at first he was just missing

and i think they changed it to kidnapping

Tenor

Yeah the flyer was missing.

It changed to kidnapping after David 'left" Lev's life.

mathtans

Oh, that's interesting. Scandal!

Tenor

(Which was after the more recent updates)

RebelVampire

but the fact he ran away doesnt necessarily mean his parents did anything wrong. some teens are really dumb and run away for stupid reasons.

his parents were stifling his career of being a rockstar

mathtans

Most don't stick it out as long as David though, I feel. But maybe not.

David's real upset that his guitar's smashed now then.

RebelVampire

most dont but david could be in that minority that are just that stubborn. but to be fair im saying not necessarily

his parents could also be shit ppl mathtans

Yeah, not enough info to call either way yet, really.

RebelVampire

QUESTION 3. In the beginning Ricky, Lev, and the other hobos meet David, a young boy who finds himself homeless. David claims this is due to the fact he got kicked out of his house. However, it is later revealed through his missing posters that David most likely ran away. Why do you think David would choose living on the streets over living with his family? Do you think David will be able to learn to live on the streets or will he find himself in deep trouble down the line?

ah look how convenient

mathtans

Actually, that would be a bit of a twist, if David WAS actually kidnapped now. After trying to do it alone. Maybe someone sent a ransom note and everything. (Unsigned, so people think it was Lev.)

Tenor

One hand I want to say maybe abuse? On the other I think it probably was more likely a fight with his parents. He seemed nearing adulthood, he might have wanted to run off to a more bohemian (sp?) lifestyle they didn't approve of and he dipped.

RebelVampire

yeah i personally lean towards a fight than abuse. just that his parents wanted something for his life he didnt and he wanted to be free and all that.

i have been curious who the heck david went off with

like david baby no, did you get involved with a gang

is it a secret cat cult

and you are caring for their god

mathtans

There is a whole underground. But maybe he found honest work somehow?

(Speaking of underground, kudos to the writer for the research on Paris casinos that I noticed in passing. Due diligence for seeing that they're privately owned.)

Kristin

Hi? Is the chat still happening?

RebelVampire

yes it is~!

Kristin

sweet

Sorry I'm late

mathtans

We all have our own time zones.

RebelVampire

no problem thank you for coming

Tenor

Hi~!

And it's ok Kristin I was late too. xD

RebelVampire

@math i honestly doubt he found honest work. he does not seem to be in the state of someone who found honest work. more like someone who just finally adjusted to living on the streets

Tenor

He might have found a good support group for what he's kinda wanting to do.

RebelVampire

yes a good support group who drive suspicious white vans

mathtans

Yeah, you are probably right on that. (I'm usually more of a cynic... but I also tend to devils advocate a lot, and there's a bit of a cynical vibe so maybe I'm just going counter to that here... hoping for the best.)

Suspicious white vans filled with guns? I feel like there's still gonna be repercussions from them stealing all those things.

RebelVampire

yeah there has to be. gangs usually dont like their stuff getting stolen

let alone finding out their stuff got stolen by a bunch of hobos

but to be fair they gotta get repercussions for shooting up a casino

cause i doubt no civilians got hurt

Tenor

I didn't see the guns fff-

mathtans

The casino started shooting first though. Well, kinda... Lev was a faster draw.

Tenor

Oh wait we tlakin earlier?

mathtans

I may be all over the place again.

Feather, Duke of Comedic Timing

I'm finally home I hope I'm noto too late

I have to quickly say I really enjoy the dreary feel I am getting from the comic, it's very atmospheric

Tenor

Nope yer good JOIN US. :D

Feather, Duke of Comedic Timing

Paired up with some Silent Hill music I been reading it with that music as background

Specially Silent Hill 2 music

Tenor

...

Oh. My. God.

That is brilliant I should reread with that :|

RebelVampire

you do that Tenor. i think ill sit that out. comic sad enough without making it spooky. XD

Feather, Duke of Comedic Timing

I'm super slow but I really like the stoic main character he looks like he has seen some shit in his life

It's not the spookiness, it's more like the atomshpere

Like not the chase scenes but defintely the town music

mathtans

Oooh, I hadn't even thought about Silent Hill, goodness. Though again, the Paris feel works for me.

Feather, Duke of Comedic Timing

I also like listening to some ummmm

What do they call the sounds of people in the streets?

mathtans

I used "sombre". ^.^

Feather, Duke of Comedic Timing

Atomshpere sounds

mathtans

Background noise...?

Feather, Duke of Comedic Timing

Like I like listening to the sound of people talking and moving in a crowded area while reading it and then it clicks me to the location

Yeah I guess

RebelVampire

on a not music note, i do give the creator credit. i really get the vibe from lev in his expressions that hes experienced some shit in life, regardless of what it is

Tenor

Oh yes, def.

Feather, Duke of Comedic Timing

Yes I also love the location, I don't see a lot of comics in other locations

mathtans

Agreed.

Tenor

And I like the story does pretty well with a nearly-silent protagonist. That can be pretty hard to show and move stories forward with.

mathtans

Also, for that whole bit where Lev wasn't speaking, still really good at conveying it.

Feather, Duke of Comedic Timing

It's like how I am working very hard to make a comic based in Hong Kong because the buildings are amazing

Also yes, Lev has the face of "I seen shit, don't fuck with me" pardon my language XD

Tenor

/omg so offended. /jkjk

mathtans

Purple lions will do that to you.

Tenor

(My mobile was censoring my cussing so it's ok Lmao)

Feather, Duke of Comedic Timing

Also I haven't read all of it, but I headcannon this is all an artistic dream or vision as a person is looking at a picture in a museum, remembering the past or something

crack theories away

mathtans

There's also some good development with secondary characters. I'm (as always) abysmal with names, but eyepatch guy, I've liked him.

RebelVampire

lol omg. really its just david sitting in a museum thinking the "what if i was homeless" scenario. then he goes home after he realizes it sucks.

Kristin

The art evolution is really interesting. Looking back at the beginning the art was a lot gritier. The new art feels softer and more optomistic somehow.

mathtans

David is staring at a picture of Lev... then he realizes, it's a mirror!

Feather, Duke of Comedic Timing

Ohh I need to read more to see the art change :3

mathtans

I'm not always great at noticing art shifts. I don't binge so much as read bits through the week.

RebelVampire

im torn between thinking the art change was on purpose to express more optimism or if it was just something that happened cause of art improvement.

cause its definitely improved which is interesting to see for sure

mathtans

Why not both?

Tenor

I do feel it's a bit of both. You can see the growth in the artist through the pages for sure at least.

RebelVampire

but then again maybe its the calm before the storm

showing life moves on before it pours again

mathtans

I wonder if they'll have to break back into David's house to track him down.

RebelVampire

QUESTION 4. The comic deals with a lot of themes and issues in regards to survival, redemption, and homelessness. Was there anything that struck you as particularly poignant in regards to this? What do you think about the hobos extreme lengths to survive? Do you think any of them will manage to get off the streets or do they seemed doomed to it? Will they find redemption from their pasts?

maybe they go to david's house to explain lev didnt kidnap david. and then things escalate and suddenly lev is holding them hostage

mathtans

I could kinda see that happening. O.o

There was Lev's collapse, and waking up in the hospital. That was actually an interesting one, because on the one hand, he wasn't left to die in the street, someone helped him... but then Lev didn't even seem to have wanted the help. Like, not wanting to accept charity, even at the expense of his life.

RebelVampire

to be fair tho, i wouldve been none too pleased in his situation. greatful for being alive, sure. but mad i could potentially get situated with an enormous hospital bill

cause even if they have a better healthcare system there, when youre homeless you dont exactly have any money to give in the first place

mathtans

Yeah... I guess I'm kind of spoiled, what with having work benefits and the Ontario Health Insurance Plan, I don't think about costs. Unless I'm reading about the US.

It's nice that the homeless guys get together, and even have a system like what Lev used to recruit for Ricky. Solidarity and all. They can redeem each other, in a way.

RebelVampire

maybe. idk about redeeming cause in the same vein they could enable each other to remain in their unredeemed states through encouraging vegetative behaviors

as someone who lives in the US i think about costs all the time

mathtans

Yeah, that's a good point. Though some people didn't necessarily agree too.

I wonder in retrospect what they did with the guns? Sold them? That feels like a bad plan.

RebelVampire

maybe they just kept them. or just dumped them somewhere. i feel like some would just want to throw them away. try to forget all that happened.

mathtans

Yeah.

RebelVampire

cause selling guns just sounds like a recipe for getting into jail

mathtans

Any fave secondary characters? I like the eyepatch guy, as I said... who can apparently see, I didn't expect that little tidbit. (It's nice to have some levity in there at times.)

RebelVampire

that would be my fave secondary character too just for the surprise my eyepatch is fake thing. i really enjoyed the moment in general cause everything was otherwise so serious, so it was good to have something a smidgen light-hearted

mathtans

He helped save them at the hotel too. Nice guy.

Wish I was better with names. (Angus? That feels not quite right.)

Tenor

4: They show Lev's friend is making steps to get clean and hopefully get off the streets. Out of those two he'd def be one to get out. But it's also more complicated than that because if France's homeless situation is any like ours it's not as simple as 'work hard' to get out. Sometimes without the right guidance, resource, will to be helped, or even with all of this you just can't get out. It's a mixed bag, really. Example if this were situated in america Lev, if he was indeed military, would probably be a Vet by the sounds of it and the homeless Vets in our nation is absolutely horrific due to the sheer amount of how the system is out to screw our soldiers.

RebelVampire

yeah i dont think their redemption is solely in their hands for sure. cause even if theyre willing, society is against them from the start. granted i think them being willing is also a big factor too. cause a lot of them do feel like they gave up at this point, which 100% ensures theyll probably not get out. its a sad situation

Tenor

(Also France has a universal health care that's apparently rated one of the best in the world so maybe he won't get sattled with a bill? /yay google)

mathtans

Well, and Ricky's issues with gambling were alluded to... but it doesn't seem like that's a thing he does any more. So that maybe helps him get off the street too?

Feather, Duke of Comedic Timing

Hmm I don't know much about the later part of the story but I like how it seems like all the homeless people have a comunity within each other?

mathtans

Yeah, agreed on that, Feather. They honour their own fave spots and have bbqs and stuff. Nice.

RebelVampire

so with ten mins left, i want to say i didnt realize that the person who sat down with Lev in the latest update was the same person in the bg from the hospital

mathtans

Wait, really? I didn't pick up on that either.

RebelVampire

https://tapas.io/episode/231368

https://tapas.io/episode/819900

unless the clothes are an extreme coincidence XD

mathtans

I'll be darned. I wouldn't buy coincidence, no. But I imagine many people would have forgotten (if I can forget over the 3 days between when I read those, people will forget over 3 months or whatever). So... they know each other. That's all I can think.

Tenor

Considering they're really looking at Lev? Nah I think they recognize 'em.

RebelVampire

maybe theyre the person who helped him to the hospital or something somehow.

mathtans

Well, yeah, but it makes me wonder if maybe that wasn't the first time? Guardian angel in real life sort of thing?

Tenor

could be. Could be someone who knows 'em. Could be a potential major character later.

LOTS OF POTENTIALS

RebelVampire

it was david's sister all along come to ask Lev where the heck david is and why hes getting into white vans

Tenor

Hnn Can't wait to see where it go tho. :D I'm def really eager on seeing where things go with David (because if he's a runaway for being just essentially an unhappy brat I'm gunna shriek because that is a nightmare on a parent /one of my fears, my child is stubborn lmao)

LOL

TBF I did think a relative but only because the blond/light hair OTL

No real backing just a 'huh that'd be funny' xD

RebelVampire

nah that was the only reason i thought of it too

i mean chances are slim but not impossible

mathtans

Maybe she's the reason Lev stopped talking years ago.

He said something he regretted to her and decided not to speak again.

RebelVampire

if davids a runaway for being a brat im just gonna shake my head sadly. cause in a few years hes gonna realize he fucked up so hard.

mathtans

Maybe David reminds Lev of the mystery woman, that's why he wanted to help David.

I dunno. Good catch there though.

Spotting the similarity I mean.

RebelVampire

i only found it during the chat cause i was looking at the hospital scene

RebelVampire

and was like "wait a sec ive seen you before"

Unfortunately, the scheduled Comic Tea Party is now complete~! Thank you everyone so much for joining this week’s chat~! That being said, if you would like to continue discussing the comic, we encourage you to do so~! We want to give a big thank you to Jrej, as well, for volunteering Shades of Men for our reading queue. If you liked the comic, please be sure to support Jrej’s efforts. If you have questions, concerns, or suggestions about CTP, please feel free to PM me, or e-mail me at RebelVampire@startfaire.com.

With that said, next week’s Comic Tea Party will focus on Nine Twilights by Andrea Rosales, Anne Mortensen-Agnew, and Chris Hansbrough. Please use this week to read as much of the comic as you would like. Hope to see you next Thursday (September 14th) from 5PM to 7PM PDT~! Until then~! Comic: http://www.ninetwilights.com/