#[I relate a lot to the sibling relationship Clive and Joshua have] | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

themelodicenigma · 1 year

Text

***Long post, oh boy.

It is interesting that I've gotten some Asks about Fang and Vanille circulating on Twitter because of FFXVI. Lol I have seen the posts, and also the resistance of it from those who feel like it's looking down on Dion/Terrance (which I kind of agree with, let them have their spotlight).

Overall, we really just shouldn't care too much about that.

A lot of the fandom drama is just bleh at this point (really always was), and when you've seen SO much for years, it's easy to tell what is what. I mean, I'm now seeing people fighting over Jill/Clive of whether they're romantic or not, or if they align more with Clerith or Cloti. Lol Just why.

However, as for what some of ya'll requested from me about Fang and Vanille, to talk about how they're different from Jill/Clive or Vaan/Penelo—I mean, that's easy.

Jill/Clive? It's a random line in her young profile at the beginning that mentions Clive and Joshua "love her as a sister"—the same beginning that immediately has an NPC say Jill/Clive make a "handsome pair", show hardly any typical sibling action, dialogue, or contextual connotation between Jill/Clive in any scene (where they barely really interact until the Moon screen), and the interactions they do have don't really naturally fit into the box of "these two love each other as siblings or Clive views her as a younger sister". Apparently, it's also BOTH the ENG and JPN that mention a sibling relationship. Either way, the game also straight-forwardly writes them as romantic, so it doesn't matter even if it was true or not—unless you're trying to argue he thinks of her as both, there's no doubt they're romantic. Like, seriously, if you haven't finished the game well....trust, you'll find out they're romantic.

Vaan/Penelo? Well first, as far as I'm concerned, the BradyGames guide from years past is the one that carries the assumption that they're "brother and sister". Otherwise, the game, Ultimania, and even the Archive Ultimania only mention they're "like family"—in which case, this is obviously in reference to their orphan past where they were already childhood friends. Reks (Vaan's brother) went to war and Vaan's parents died, Vaan stays with Penelo's family as a result, and then soon after Penelo's parents ALSO died, and then now they BOTH were orphaned along with a bunch of other kids and grew up together working for Migelo as a group of orphans. It's not written for no reason or something that is not true—they're like family. And of course, you know that's a descriptor of a bond, of closeness—YOU can assume it defaults and is limited to a sibling relationship, but technically that's not true, and very often isn't. So, it doesn't even contrast their romanticism (which is hinted at in the 1st game, not just the 2nd), not to mention, it's not even a focus between their characters in the story. The friendship is really the focus, while the family aspect is more expressed for Vaan through dealing with his actual brother's death. The family in relation to their past and part of their bond is definitely a thing, don't get me wrong, but it's hardly emphasized within the game and a center for what they express about and to each other. That'd be the friendship, you just also happen to have romanticism applied eventually as well.

Fang and Vanille, though? It's the major focus of their characters, the family concept flows through them intentionally, consistently, and is also specific to being as sisters. Not to mention, it then is applicable to ALL things shown between them and EXPLAINS their behavior towards each other. In the Games, FFXIII and FFXIII World Previews, Ultimanias + Other credible guides like Piggyback, VA interviews, novelizations—this never stops being true for them and something implemented more than you'd EVER see between Clive/Jill or Vaan/Penelo. And it all "coincidentally" flows together as a whole for the family/sister application.

FFXIII World Preview - their introduction on the relationship chart is "same family surname". Even before the game's release, the family connotation is applied to them. While we learn the REASON in-world is because of them being from the same village, this more than obviously is for the purpose of serving the continuous family connotation THROUGH Fang and Vanille specifically to emphasis this, as supported by all other points below. Also, just a small thought, why choose this to introduce the characters mysteriously, and then later have a plethora of familial confirmations, if it's something that isn't representative of exactly what it foretells?

FFXIII Ultimania Chart - "relationship like sisters", enough said. Unlike Vaan/Penelo, it specifies WHAT family relationship they have. They didn't pull back from "same family surname", they took it steps further. The relationship chart is informative of something about the characters, and obviously the content can show something more than just the chosen moniker (e.g. Aqua/Terra/Ven aren't just "fellow pupils"), but it also isn't something that is FALSE information unless the content TELLS you it's false. It normally doesn't, and certainly didn't for Fang and Vanille, as per below.

FFXIII Scenario Ultimania, Archive Ultimania, LR Complete Guide - literally, everywhere, ESPECIALLY in writings relative to Fang, who is the older sister, protector, and most concerned over the other—this also correlates to why Fang's character centers around Vanille's more than the other way around (more on that later). Her descriptions really capture WHY she is the way she is towards Vanille and why the center of her character is protecting Vanille and keeping her from turning into a Cie'th. The FFXIII Scenario Ultimania even directly says in Fang's profile "Vanille is not just a childhood friend from the same hometown" and guess what works alongside this description: "To Fang, Vanille is an irreplaceable family member", "grew up like sisters", "they have a bond beyond family", “Since the original Final Fantasy XIII, Fang has always strived to protect Vanille, considering her as her own family", etc. etc. etc. Family, family, family. Being friends is absolutely a thing, don't get it twisted, but the family aspect not only in retrospect to growing up together, but in HOW they see each other, is consistent, ESPECIALLY for Fang. The Lightning Returns Complete Guide is from Piggyback, who is known for having the developers involved in the conception of their guides as well, and Toriyama himself is quoted in the book saying Fang considers Vanille as family.

FFXII Scenario Ultimania Stories - As a bonus, in Benny Matsuyama's short stories for all the characters, including separately in both Fang and Vanille's stories—in both stories, he doubles down on the same things as above, describing how Fang has this strong conviction and vow of protecting Vanille, who is like her younger sister, and wants to stop her from becoming a Cie'th. While Matsuyama's canonicity through BentStuff is a complete other conversation, there is the consideration of the fact he's reiterating something that has already been applied as opposed to making it up, not to mention, his novella and the character he created in the FFXIII Ultimania Omega were made canon, and he's in the staff credits for Lightning Returns.

FFXIII Ultimania Omega Interview - even Fang's VA mentions how "To Fang, Vanille is like a younger sister", and relates that to why she relates to Fang since she has a younger sister too, and thus understands the strong conviction Fang has in protecting Vanille.

The FFXIII Game - now I don't think the game itself specifically mentions them being "like sister" (at least in the dialogue, as I've gone through the script of the cutscenes), but the family aspect is something they carry pretty heavily, especially for the group. Vanille's narration talking about family and the regrets of not keeping them as close as you should, Vanille introducing the idea of "On Gran Pulse, everyone is family", Fang and Vanille emphasizing that their village is a close-knit family when arriving to Oerba, Fang assuring Vanille "we have a new family now" and the Ulti Omega doubling down by saying that this line clearly shows how Fang sees the group as her family, and of course, Fang trying to sacrifice herself to fulfill her promise to "protect her family" when the group faces Orphan. Fang's worry and conviction to protect Vanille, and extending this to her expanded family, is shown greatly.

-Zero Promise- Novelization - the novelization is the treasure trove for Fang and Vanille's context as character, their family/sister relationship (along with friendship, of course), and their past. It even features two direct parallels between Lightning and Fang for the sake of showing how Fang views Vanille like a little sister. Even Vanille, in the moment they became L'Cie at their village, tells Fang about how despite being orphans, they were raised together, and were family. There's also the additional context of Fang being like the "woman/adult" while Vanille is like "the child", emphasizing the child-like personality of Vanille by how she always slept next to Fang (also with other kids in the village, before they became L'Cie) from her fears of loneliness, and Fang recounting this of her looking after her being a "crybaby". Naturally, all of this does naturally fit within a context where there's an older sibling and a younger sibling. There usually isn't, but if there are concerns over canonicity—Jun Eishima, the author of this novel (and the FFXIII-2 novels), was hired directly by SE to write her novelizations and to have them published through SE individually, had them featured in the World Previews of both FFXIII and XIII-2, had another short story called -Episode i- featured with the Xbox 360 release of FFXIII, AND was the Story Advisor for the actual FFXIII-2 game. So, it's safe to say she's an authentic additional party to the series as an author, even more than Matsuyama.

-Episode i- Novelization - this short story features the group slightly post-the ending of FFXIII. The story shows the groups conviction for saving Fang and Vanille from the crystal stasis, which sets up this same conviction expressed from all of them (especially Snow and Hope) in FFXIII-2. More importantly, how this conviction is shaped by the familial bond they created with Fang and Vanille, and they remark how this meaning came from Vanille's famous line: "On Gran Pulse, everyone is family".

FFXIII-2 World Preview Book - continuing the trend, Fang and Vanille are described as "like family" once again in the relationship chart. And at this point, we already know HOW they're like family: sisters.

FFXIII-2 Game/Novelization - This first point is really kind of a bonus that is congruent to the comparison of Lightning and Fang, but in FFXIII-2 when Serah meets Fang for the first time, she talks about how Fang reminded her of Lightning. There's also the "Daughters of Etro" moniker they gain through prophecy and the "Legend of Cocoon" Noel speaks on—this is obviously congruent with the concept of them being family/sisters to one another, it just throws in the context of a connection to Etro. Interestingly enough, the ENG localization also recounts the legend through Noel as them being called "the sisters", as well, though this line of dialogue in JPN from Noel is still "the daughters". This meaning is also talked about within the novelizations Fragments Before and Fragments After.

FFXIII: Lightning Returns Game - And of course, Fangs conviction to protect Vanille is STILL the center of her character, to the point she leaves Vanille in order to accomplish this. Lightning will remark this, wondering what made Fang leave since they have "a bond beyond/stronger than family". At this point, it's obvious why family is the foundation of this descriptor, but also how it works as a nice descriptor that comments on the strength of this bond, and how it is stronger than the already strong bond of family bonds.

And the most important thing as demonstrated above? They don't stray from this—they build upon it. There's no deviation, there's no making it false, there's no "this is a lie and it's actually romantic". This IS the characters and their relationship—perhaps the most important difference between them and Clive/Jill or Vaan/Penelo. Within all this, there is no "coded/subtext" of romance, when all things expressed in the game fits within ALL that is provided above and is congruent to one another for the same conclusion: Fang and Vanille are family, are sisters, and very much so care a lot about each other. As you can see, it was given in a multitude of ways throughout the existence of all 3 games and corresponding material relative to them. This especially for Fang—a character who is older, has grown up taking care of a younger character in a family setting, and whose main priority is protecting them and looking after them: this doesn't just fit in the sibling/parental [hogosha] box, it is THE box itself. Are there stories that deviate, that subvert this and make it romantic? Absolutely, I've seen them myself. But, it's a deviation for a reason, it's "different than what it appears as" for a reason—because it's not what is natural for a romantic relationship to develop. There's a reason Fang is consistently compared and paired with Lightning, who is also not only just a sibling to Serah, but also a hogosha [parental figure]. I would make the same argument for Fang too.

One thing I've seen actively in the way is the very typical urge to use our personal interpretations more than the content to understand something. The bar for romanticism is REALLY low in how people perceive things, and that's a wider conversation on how media itself was the influence on this, kind of negatively if you ask me. Glorification of romanticism and sex is a thing. Like really, it's what part of me understands HOW people can see Fang and Vanille as romantic, but also, WHY I know they also should be able to see it as platonic, too. I believe this is an important aspect of talking about perception and media. However, we can't be blinded by it—logically or emotionally. There's not a single thing they've done that can't be understood through the lens of what the material has given you to understand it. Use the lens of the information, not your own personal interpretation if you want to KNOW Fang and Vanille. If you want to ship the hek out of them despite this, fine—I don't care about that specifically, but it would be nice if people recognized and also talked about who the characters actually are outside of their headcanon. That way, when things that are just misconceptions are said, people who know better can say something.

Fang originally being a man? Actually, they both were in a sense. And, not only is it a "coincidence" that the construction of Fang's character is centered on her "wanting to save Vanille", but also that one of the reasons Fang was turned into a female was to AVOID the feeling of romance between Fang and Vanille. Interesting how that little detail is left out by those mentioning this (one could even argue it's slightly homophobic, but that's a whole other convo). Either way, it makes sense as to why the center of Fang's character is her conviction to protect Vanille—it's what she was created for, and we see HOW they chose to execute that: to protect Vanille, her younger sister, her family.

Fang and Vanille being like the Ragnarok legend? It's pretty easy to understand what was/wasn't used with the Lif and Lifthrasir comparison. They're a duo, seemingly the last of the Pulse civilization, and associated with Ragnarok—that's where the similarity ends and how far it was utilized, obviously as based on the above. Something done in media all the time is the utilization of concepts, but not ALL details are 1:1. Happens all the time, and when the storytelling is directly referencing the concept itself (like True Love's Kiss or an Act of Pure Love), it's actually a specific point to SUBVERT from romance and apply it differently.

Vanille talking about never sleeping alone? This is literally linked to the "child-like" aspect of her character—of her fears and sadness of loneliness, and quite frankly the trauma of being orphaned. She's never slept alone, and Vanille recounts this in lieu of herself and ALL the orphans (before they're L'Cie)—it wasn't just Fang in her recollection, but Fang is the one she is closest to and relied on the most. Sleeping alone = fear of loneliness. Fang recounts the same idea in lieu of Vanille's "crybaby" personality—"Vanille would always cry, waking up from a bad dream, holding on to Fang and begging her not to leave her alone. She had always been like that, since they were children."—and naturally, this coincides with Fang's role of taking care of her since they were kids. Surely we're not confused on how that fits with a sibling dynamic more naturally than a romantic one? Then lastly, what is probably even the inspiration of this from the -Zero- Promise novel, is the wholesome/sad scene in the FFXIII game when Vanille, after making a deal about Sazh not invading her sleeping space, sneaks over to sleep next to him, crying, and Sazh allows it, calling her a kid. I mean, it's literally outlined three separate times. Nothing to do with romance, it's about Vanille's character. Unless, you really think Vanille was coming onto Sazh as opposed to dealing with trauma. Knowing the internet, I'm sure that's a ship somewhere, but it ain't it.

Fang lifting up Vanille's skirt to see her brand on her upper thigh? That is, to see if she is close to death, being a Cie'th? The very thing she's been stressing about the entire game up to that point? In this, we can also include the ability of Fang and Vanille hugging or holding each other's hands when they're sacrificing themselves. Basically, physical intimacy.

Boy, this one is a rant for me, and it's hard to be nice about it.

The L'Cie brand is practically almost like a wound, and they're constantly in s state of worry of it getting worse, with it being their ticking time clock towards losing themselves to becoming Cie'th. This is one of Fang's biggest concerns for Vanille along with protecting her.

Now, take their outward personalities that reinforce they're not one to make a big deal about seeing skin, their close-knit familial upbringing + being sisters within this environment—supplemented by the info that supports Fang being the older sister whose main concern is Vanille's safety and turning into a Cie'th + Vanille, who is the younger sister and like a "child", them both being females, and how Fang wordlessly moves Vanille to do this while Vanille has no protest, which can be reminiscent of a mother/child, which "coincidentally" flows with the above, etc. If you seriously can't understand in any way how this interaction fits within the information of the above, platonically, and doesn't showcase anything relative to "this can only happen if they're fucking"—then there's not much else to be said other than, maybe expand your understanding of human interaction and personalities in media (not even just JPN, either)? That's the nicest and most understanding way I can put it. Take in anything, where a sibling dynamic and their capability of interaction isn't just bickering and tussling with one another. Please. It's super easy, and has been done before or even further in so much other content, all across JPN media. There's SO many characters with strong sibling relationships. For SE games, also look at FFXIII itself—Lightning and Hope, Hope and Vanille (the beginning), Sarah and Vanille even share a moment when they meet, Lightning and Serah's interaction at the end of XIII-2, etc. It's everywhere. Yuna and Rikku's hug scene in FFX, Aqua's general intimacy towards Ventus in the KH series, etc. There's not a single thing Fang and Vanille has done that isn't covered under what has been given about their characters, and it's not even like, that much. I mean, Elsa and Anna between Frozen 1 and 2 show more I'd say. "B-but, but, hugs in Japanese media are always—". Nope, go read, watch, anything, please. Now, there can be a certain conversation of expectations between say, a female and male (and even this isn't absolute), but between females? Showing physical intimacy and closeness, not only in real-time of the story but also in key art? Super common. Easy.

There's even a conversation for the sake of how Fang and Vanille specifically are the way they are because of this upbringing, so Fang not making a big deal about even checking Lightning's brand despite being a stranger, Vanille and Serah sharing a moment while being strangers, and even how quickly Vanille physically came to comforting Hope at the beginning of the game—it's more about their personalities and familial/close-knit characterization.

Like, c'mon man. There's "I can see this happening between a couple but also know it can happen without it", and then there's "there's no 'heterosexual' explanation for this". One shows understanding and wisdom, the other, either just uninformed or purposely ignorant of the fact that, yes, they give you an explanation. Over, and over, and over again, in multiple sources, in multiple ways, as shown above. Realize the whole "I would never do that with my sister" is not evidential of what CAN and HAS been done for other sisters or sibling characters. I mean, if you're sincerely not use to seeing all types of physical or descriptive expressions that can happen between this configuration of characterization, I'm not sure how you'd make it through most JPN content to be honest and not tell the difference between what's sexual or platonic, or even American content like Four Brothers, The Outsiders, Frozen, etc., without believing all the siblings (blood related or not) are all having sex with each other. Also, I think it's interesting to note that most physical interactions are initiated by Fang, the older sister, who's main priority is protecting and looking after her younger sister—it certainly matches the same energy you'll see from older sisters in JPN media who show love and comfort to their younger sisters.

Fang would "be everyone's enemy/tear the sky down" just to save Vanille and this is like "Snow's language" towards Serah? I mean, have you seen Supernatural? XD Also like, again, ANY JPN content with an older and younger sibling, whose sole motivation and characterization is protecting their younger sibling? It's called conviction (as we covered, Fang was created specifically to have for Vanille), and considering Serah and her happiness is Lighting's "reason for living and her greatest reward", who Lighting has "the same beloved feeling" for that is the same depth as Snow, is what, "coincidentally", Fang herself uses to motivate Lightning to keep going when she contemplates giving up, who Lightning does turn against Cocoon for in order to save, and who is THE most important component to Lightning's agency in the 3rd game and is the key to her character arc—I'm sure Lightning isn't far off from what Fang is. Again, there's the novella equating them, and also, Serah being reminded of Lightning when she finally meets Fang—this conviction to protect and save your loved ones is something, really, all the characters show. It isn't just Snow, nor is it just Fang. And, Fang just so happens to have this conviction in a way that has been repeatedly linked to "protecting Vanille, her younger sister".

Fang and Vanille having a "bond beyond family"? First, notice how family is still the basis of this bond, the conventional relationship type that is the most versatile AND the top signifier of closeness. So "bond" here isn't relationship type, it's in the same vein of the "reason for existing", "irreplaceable", "unbreakable", "most important thing", etc. descriptors that you get to show how a relationship goes beyond just a type, which all the above is beyond simply being family. The logic of romance being "beyond family" also doesn't make any sense because it literally is it's own sector in family—I mean, the conventional point of a romantic relationship is TO become family. Also for this specific phrase, funny enough, I've only ever seen it used platonically or specifically with no romanticism application, e.g. in Boruto, Sakura tells her daughter that her and Naruto became "more than family". It's like literally the same Kanji phrasing too (家族以上 - kazoku ijou). I haven't even seen it used in a romantic context, but I'm sure it very well could be. It's also funny that, Lightning says this about Fang and Vanille, of how Fang would "never just leave Vanille all alone", but "coincidentally" (this is getting fun, huh), Hope says Sazh had mentioned practically THE SAME THING about why they wanted to believe Lightning wasn't in the crystal, that Lightning wouldn't "just up and leave Serah like that".

Vanille's VA says she hopes the games will show how Fang and Vanille "have a bond more powerful than friendship"—I mean, yeah? They're family, something stronger than friendship. Bond-wise? Absolutely. They have a bond BEYOND even that. See the above, how is this specifically and only romantic? Keep in mind, this is also the same interview where Fang's VA directly says "To Fang, Vanille is like a younger sister", seeing herself in Fang because she has her own younger sister, and relates of the feeling of "protecting small children" that comes with this. Like you know, "coincidentally", like how Vanille as a younger sister is also "childlike" in disposition and a "cute, crybaby" to Fang. Neither this phrase or "bond beyond family" are inherently romantic, and they're very applicable to other multiple relationship types because it's for the sake of describing the strength of a bond.

Fang and Vanille still live with each other at the end of LR? You mean, two people who have lived together since they were children as a close-knit family, have a whole arc involving them separating and reuniting in BOTH games, and are thrust into a new world with the two still being each other's closest family? A world of which is also still very different than the one they came from? You mean two people like THAT would still live together? I am shocked and dismayed. I feel a little sassy here because, c'mon. I'd also like to point out that the idea of "never being apart/leaving each other's side" is congruent with their history, but also is something expressed in the storytelling of Vanille's fear of loneliness, in which even WAY back in the FFXIII novelization Zero Promise, she expresses to Fang “We might be orphans, but we were raised together. We’re family. We can protect everyone together. We’ll be together forever… no matter what happens, we’ll never be apart.” when being turned into L'Cie. So, it's very fitting, but also still within the context that is repeatedly there.

Let the material speak for itself. Which it does. A lot. And you don't have to do much other than just finding it and absorbing it. I feel like, there's STILL more that I could say, but this is the brunt gist of understanding Fang and Vanille.

#oerba yun fang #oerba dia vanille #final fantasy xiii #ffxiii #ffxvi #ffxii zodiac age #kingdom hearts #long post #lightning farron #serah farron #clive rosfield #jill warrick

20 notes · View notes