#[And just fully leaning into that shit]

[prolibytherium]

I never touched it but I feel like i only ever hear positive things said about song of achilles.. in (rough strokes at least) what makes it dogshit to you?

Okay it's been a while since I actually read it so some of this might not be spot on accurate. Sorry if at any point I say 'the book never does xyz' and it actually does once or twice but I think my underlying criticisms are accurate

-Patroclus is made into like this soft gentle tender quivering little yaoi boy. In the source text, he's shown as compassionate and moved by the suffering of his own men (and apparently having some medical skill, tending to the wounded in the camp), but very much invested n combat and very, very good at it (pages worth of descriptions of the guys he's killing left and right). In this, the arguably more complex character from this 8th century BC text is flattened into Being A Healer, he doesn't want to go to war he just wants to help people, he only goes because Achilles has to but he doesn't want to fight he's a HEALER he's a gentle lover NOT A FIGHTER who just wants to help he just wants to help everyone around him he HEALS while Achilles is a doomed warrior who is so good at fighting and KILLING its a DICHOTOMY GUYS!!!LIKE THE BEAUTIFUL SUN AND MOON DOOMED LOVERS SO SAD patocluse HEALER . (I Think he's specifically characterized as being BAD at fighting but might be misremembering)

-I don't remember much about Achilles' characterization I think it just makes him less of a jackass while not adding anything of interest and levels out into being mad boring.

-Not getting into the literal millenias old debate whether the mythological characters Achilles and Patroclus were being characterized as some type of lover by the original oral sources of the Iliad or its Homeric writers. We will never know. We don't even know what (if any) culturally accepted conventions of male homosexuality existed in bronze age Greece (we know much more about their descendants). But there are some interesting elements of their characterization in this direction, with how unconventional their relationship is WITHIN the text itself- Patroclus is described as cooking for Achilles and his guests (very specifically a woman/wife's job), Achilles chides Patroclus like a father, but there's also scene where Achilles' mourning of him directly echoes a passage of Hector's wife mourning her husband, Patroclus is explicitly stated to Achilles' elder, and is overall treated as his equal or near-equal, closest confidant and most beloved friend (to the point that pederastic classical Greeks would debate over who was erastes (older authority figure lover) and who was eromenos (adolescent 'beloved')- many took it as a given that this text depicted their present-day cultural norms of homosexual behavior but it existed so Outside of these norms that it had to be debated who was who). Their relationship is non-standard both within the text and to the descendants of the civilization that wrote them.

Basically what I'm saying is this book had opportunities to like, explore the unconventionality of the relationship (being presented here as explicitly lovers), explore the dynamics of why Patroclus wants to do 'women's work' (besides being a tenderhearted softboy), the weird dynamics where they take on paternal roles to each other but also roles of wives, how they feel about being this way, and just kind of Doesn't. Which I guess isn't an intrinsic fault (because it omits much of what I just talked about to begin with). it's just like.... Lame. This book takes jsut abandons everything interesting about the source text in favor of flattening it into bland Doomed Yaoi.

-The conflict that sets off the core story of the Iliad is Achilles and Agamemnon fighting over Briseis, an enslaved Trojan woman taken by Achilles as a war-trophy, Achilles spends most of the story moping because he was dishonored by his 'trophy' being taken. Achilles and Patroclus and everyone else are raping their captives, all the women in the story are either captured Trojans (or in the case of the free women within the walls of Troy, soon to be enslaved, and are slave owners themselves). Slavery as an institution and extreme patriarchal conventions are innate to the text and reflective of the context in which it was developed. You cannot avoid it.

But obviously you can't have your soft yaoi boys doing this, so the author has them capturing women to Protect Them from the other men. Their slaves are UNDER THEIR PROTECTION and VERY SAFE (and they might even Like And Befriend Them but I might be misremembering that. Briseis does though). Our heroes have apparently absorbed none of the ideals of the culture they exist in and the author seems to think "they're gay and aren't sexually attracted to their captives" would translate to them being outright benevolent (also as if wartime sexual violence is just about attraction and not part of a wider spectrum of violent acts to dehumanize and brutalize an accepted 'enemy')

In the source text, Briseis mourns Patroclus as being the kindest to her of her captors, who tried to get her a slightly better outcome by getting her married to Achilles (which probably would be the Least Bad of all possible outcomes for a woman in that situation, becoming a legal wife instead of a slave), and wonders what will happen to her now that he's gone. This is a really really sad, horrible, and compelling dynamic which could be fleshed out in very interesting ways but is instead is tossed entirely aside in favor of them being Besties. Like brother and sister.

All of the above pisses me off so much. If you don't want to engage in the icky parts of ancient/bronze age Greece then don't write a retelling of a story taking place in bronze age Greece. I'm not gonna get mad at children's adaptations of Greek myths or silly fun stories loosely based on them for omitting the rape and slavery but it is SO fundamental to the Iliad. If you're not willing to handle it, either fully omit it or better yet set your Iliad inspired yaoi in an invented swords-and-sandals setting where you can have all your heartbreaking tragic doomed lovers plot beats and not have to clumsily write around the women they're brutalizing.

-The author didn't seem to know what to do with Thetis and she made her just like, Achilles bitch mother who spends most of the story trying to separate our Yaoi Boys (iirc her disguising Achilles as a girl and hiding him on Scyros is made to be more about getting him away from Patroclus than trying to save her son from his prophesied doom in the Trojan War) until she sees how much they loooove each other and I think helps Patroclus' spirit get to the afterlife or something in the end?

-This is more of a personal taste gripe but it has that writing style I loathe where the prose feels less like a story and more like an attempt to string together Deep Beautiful Hard Hitting Poetic Lines that will look great as excerpts on booktok (might predate booktok but same vibe). It's all very Pretty and Haunting and Deep but feels devoid of real substance.

I really like The Iliad and The Odyssey in of themselves. They're fascinating historical texts that give a window into how 8th century BC Greeks told their stories, saw their world, interpreted their ancestors, etc. And genuinely I think these texts have 'good' characters, there's a lot of complexity and humanity to it.

WRT the Iliad- all of the main Achaeans are pretty fascinating, the one singular part where Briseis Gets To Talk and laments her situation is great, Achilles fantasizing that all of the Trojans AND the Achaeans die so he and Patroclus alone can have the glory of conquering Troy (wild), Achilles asking to embrace Patroclus' shade and reaching out for him but it's immaterial (and the shade being sucked back underground with a 'squeak' (the squeak kinda gets me it's disturbing and sad)), Hecuba talking about wanting to tear out Achilles' liver and eat it in a (taboo, exceptioally pointed) expression of rage and grief for his mutilation of her son's corpse, just one tiny line where the enslaved women performing ritual wailing for their dead captors are described as using it as an outlet to 'grieve for their own troubles' is heartrending, etc. A lot of grappling with anger and grief and the inevitability of death, a lot of groundwork laid for characters that could be very interesting when expanded upon in the framework of a conventional novel.

And Song Of Achilles really doesn't do much with all that. I know a lot of my gripes here are kind of just "It's different from the Iliad", I would have thought of it as mostly mediocre and forgettable rather than infuriating if it wasn't a retelling (and I DEFINITELY have strong biases here). But I think the ways in which it is different are less just a product of a retelling (of course there's going to be omissions and differences) and more a complete and utter disinterest in vast majority of its own subject matter, to the book's detriment. I think a retelling has a point when it EXPANDS on the source, or provides a NEW ANGLE to the source. This book doesn't Really do either, it just shaves off the complexity of its source material, renders the characters into a really boring archetype of a gay relationship, and gives very little else. Its content boils down to a middling tragic romance that has been inserted into the hollowed out defleshed skeleton of the Iliad.

Bottom line: I definitely would not be as mad about it if I wasn't familiar with the source material but I think it's fair to expect a retelling to Engage with/expand on its source, and I also think it's weak purely on its own merits. This book was set up to disappoint Me specifically.

[manufactoredxbyxdesign]

[A ship with Wesker that contains Hades and Persephone themes and undertones would be bomb ngl.]

[whoblewboobear]

Getting hung up on Tracker and Kristen taking digs at each other when they’re still talking about something bigger like religion frustrates me to no end. Yes they are exes, yes things can come off rude but neither one of them has been wrong in the meat of what they’re saying when discussing religion and the way they practice.

Outside of the fucking or fighting, Trackerbees have ALWAYS been able to understand each other and hear each other out when it comes to their respective gods or religion as a whole. They both have different perspectives to offer, different work ethics, and different wisdoms to share the other because there ultimately is a bigger picture. These young women are both incredibly wise.

They’re also messy ass teenagers! Those bigger, more introspective, and worldly questions will be interspersed with a low blow or two. But it’s a low blow because there can be some truth to it. Focusing ONLY on the low blows and using that to paint whoever you like less as a bad person gets you nowhere. ​It kinda does a disservice to the story telling when you paint it sooo one note bc Brennan and Ally do SUCH a good job at drawing out the complexities of their relationship. The infatuation, The toxicity, the hurt, the gratitude, the frustration, the support, and the love. All of it.

[lucyflawless]

yellowjackets is really out here doing it all huh. like not just all the fun gay teen cannibals and 💕insane middle aged women💕, that goes without saying. but in a time where most modern shows have really boring ass intros, this one SLAPS SO DAMN HARD

[imwritesometimes]

not to be dramatic but getting myself a wax warmer was one of the best things I've done for myself in terms of 'little things to make myself happy' I am terrified of open flame in the house due to past life events but really love scent as something that can soothe and calm and idk I just love that I can fill my house with scents I like and that are soothing but there's no fire and I am focusing on more like this for 2024. Welcoming little simple things into my life that I may have said 'no, that's frivolous' to before.

[punkshitposts]

something I think is actually hilarious is that if you go left enough you start having more stances in common with (individual) conservatives, and if you go right enough you start agreeing with (individual) leftists. like i have a pretty close friend who's self described as "just far enough right that I hate politicians" , whom I hard disagree with his overarching political stances. but the finer details of it... yeah we agree with each other. gun control/gun rights opinions taxation opinions pro-small government opinions slight separatist opinions anti two party opinions anti-corporation opinion ect ect ect.

we stand on opposite sides of a standard political compass but I genuinely think if I were to count stats, I'd agree with as many of his stances as I would a liberals/democrats stances. my hs gov teacher described the difference in right vs left to us as "everyone's goal here is the betterment of mankind, they just think the best ways to do it are different" and that's literally the best way, to me, to describe what the difference in right vs left is regarding anarchism specifically. we got ESSENTIALLY the same opinion but the ways we think are the best ways to go about enacting said opinion are what makes us different. and something abt that is really painfully funny to me. envisioning a world where an-something is the major world thing, not capitalism.... and there's STILL right vs left... but The Anarchist Versions. christ.

sorry for the book i wrote in the tags. ignore typos I am NOT retyping any of that to fix them xoxo

[themyscirah]

This is technically a Diana's age poll but I framed it partially around Julia's rescue because that's the event I need to contextualize and whether or not Diana is a thing yet is p important for my purposes. I would keep the Pérez run and postcrisis continuity in mind when answering this bc that's when this is relevant but I'd keep in mind that even though Diana is very young there (like early 20s) we don't know I don't think if she ages differently as a child (esp as a themysciran AND being made from clay) and in some versions she is older than she looks and was made earlier

Edit: I accidentally logic-ed this out in the tags lol 🤦‍♀️but feel free to still vote however you want. Going to publish this anyway bc I think I made some good points later in my tags

[robocops-a-christ-allegory]

The thing I hate about peoples "Venom is supposed to be scary!" takes is I dont even really disagree inherently but the scary thing about Venom was originally the fact that they knew everything about Peter and used that information to relentlessly stalk him, showing up where he lived and where Aunt May lived multiple times and just kind of terrorizing him. Genuinely Venom just being a stalker is so much creepier then the whole like "Venom is a scary evil monster man and the symbiote turns you into the worst version of yourself!" kind of thing people go for

[arsenicflame]

one of the things that really pisses me off about fandom (in general but it seems 10x worse in the ofmd fandom in specific) is some peoples determination to jump to the worst possible interpretation of any scene with a character they dont like in it. its suddenly not reasonable to read the silly jokey scene as it was indended, we have to assume X character is acting in bad faith because why would he not. if you substituted it with any other person you would not see these readings, but because its someone they dont like we can't possibly read it any other way. im all for reading into the text of the show and analysing and extrapolating from it, but some of the takes i have seen seem so out of left field from the actual show that it feels hard to assume the people writing them are doing it for any reason other than blind hatred of a character.

[nokmietarchive]

just went full ham and designed a villainsona for rottmnt wahaha

figured it would be fun to fill out a theme following four guardians. we got turtles, we got dragons... so my guys is based around the white tiger (백호)

the bit im committing to is he's just taking advantage of the fact that everyone in the universe has the cybersecurity of a wet paper bag. i mean LOOK at the passwords people are using! theyre basically begging to get their servers compromised!!!!!

[3416]

he’s mellowing me out, thank god

[mokuba]

so how bout that murder soccer anime huh

[priestofberath]

Playing Spy is just fucking impossible. Like, the psychological effect of playing Spy is terrible. You fuck up really bad as any other class and it's like ah well it happens. You fuck up really bad as Spy and you want to jump in a lake. Like hi Pyro, yeah I just decloaked in front of you and tried stabbing your Medic in the face and missed. No, I'm not sure why I did that either. I'm going to kill myself now.

[redhotarsenic]

You’re eating a lollipop and Valantinez is there staring off into the distance seemingly contemplating and after a while they casually reach over and pull it out of your mouth and stick it in their own and they pull away and you’re FLABBERGASTED and they’re just. Casually acting like nothing happened except they have the HUGEST shit eating smirk on their face.

[gregoftom]

TOMMMMMMMMTOMAFOMAFO TOM SWEEEEEEP TOM SWEEP!!!!! TOM SWEEP GOL GOL GOL GOL GOL GOLAZOOOOOOO GOL GOL GOL

[weirdoughnut]

after much ruminating and searching around, i've found it much easier to argue on the side of "holy shit do you know how wasteful this is? even if you don't care abt the environment (tho why don’t u, with how some cities' urban fauna is changing with the environment??), ai uses up infinitely more resources than it puts out into the world."

bc fact is, it's a sinkhole for time, effort, and money—resources that could’ve been spent on fixing our actual problems. not some student's, who has an essay they don’t feel like using a singular brain cell for; or someone’s uncle's, who thinks search engines are way too hard to sift thru compared to generated text; or a web designer who couldn’t be bothered to use a proper placeholder image

the best way i've seen it put was (and sorry i can't quote who this was from) "ai is a trillion dollar investment. what trillion dollar issue does it solve?"

the most frustrating thing about AI Art from a Discourse perspective is that the actual violation involved is pretty nebulous

like, the guys "laundering" specific artists' styles through AI models to mimic them for profit know exactly what they're doing, and it's extremely gross

but we cannot establish "my work was scraped from the public internet and used as part of a dataset for teaching a program what a painting of a tree looks like, without anyone asking or paying me" as, legally, Theft with a capital T. not only is this DMCA Logic which would be a nightmare for 99% of artists if enforced to its conclusion, it's not the right word for what's happening

the actual Violation here is that previously, "I can post my artwork to share with others for free, with minimal risk" was a safe assumption, which created a pretty generous culture of sharing artwork online. most (noteworthy) potential abuses of this digital commons were straightforwardly plagiarism in a way anyone could understand

but the way that generative AI uses its training data is significantly more complicated - there is a clear violation of trust involved, and often malicious intent, but most of the common arguments used to describe this fall short and end up in worse territory

by which I mean, it's hard to put forward an actual moral/legal solution unless you're willing to argue:

Potential sales "lost" count as Theft (so you should in fact stop sharing your Netflix password)

No amount of alteration makes it acceptable to use someone else's art in the production of other art without permission and/or compensation (this would kill entire artistic mediums and benefit nobody but Disney)

Art Styles should be considered Intellectual Property in an enforceable way (impossibly bad, are you kidding me)

it's extremely annoying to talk about, because you'll see people straight up gloating about their Intent To Plagiarize, but it's hard to stick them with any specific crime beyond Generally Scummy Behavior unless you want to create some truly horrible precedents and usher in The Thousand Year Reign of Intellectual Property Law