#;i like peter parker more (petergwen)

[parkersbite]

tag drop!

[punkeropercyjackson]

Punkflower with Miles as Hobie's Gwen Stacy but completely unconventionally and as a metaphor for transition like how our Gwen has being Spiderwoman as an in the closet metaphor.Miles saved Gayatri's life and caused yet another anomaly by it and it's what made Hobie's attitude towards her from then on that became so romantically-coded and in the comics 138 Gwen was dead before Hobie could meet her and it was confirmed by the crew that we'll see plenty of Gwens in Beyond and hinted that might include 42 Gwen so that brings the question as to why 1610 Gwen wasn't seen or mentioned despite Ripeter.Miles saving Gayatri can work as symbolism for her saving her inner girl instead of her egg not cracking until it's too late like how Gwen's Peter's death is symbolism for her dad thinking she 'killed' the boy she 'was' and being violent and unreasonable over it.There's the 'we're the same in the important ways' line and them picking up eachother's mannerisms

^One of multiple examples but choosing this because it's Gwen looking at Miles as a ship moment and Miles looking at Hobie the same way in a later scene and Hobie reacts to with a scoff and a snarky line and the interpretation to me of it that makes the most sense isn't Hobie being ashamed or upset over killing his canon event cop but being worried Miles would think less of him due to her dad.It's been said by other Punkflower shippers that Hobie was more into Miles than into Gwen and while i do ship Gwen/Hobie(and same with Gwen/Miles),i honestly can't help but agree

Straying from the topic a little but i don't doubt if Miles was already canonically a girl,a lot less people would be saying they're like siblings but instead would gush about the punk who's actually a huge softie x sweet sunshine girl who's actually just as badass him element in Punkflower-'I was this cool the whole time' would be taken as explicit flirtation and you'd be treated as stupid for taking it platonically(and i mean.....full offense no shade,it's not wrong).Hobie himself is a male(ish)Spiderperson but not Peter Parker so basically Punkflower would be a Petergwen equivalent of sorts.To be totally real i'm talking out of my ass but i wanted to get this down anyway

[rappaccini]

okay spidergwen 4d chess is evolving to spidergwen 8d chess for this one.

if synergy with the spiderverse movies got comics-gwen into this crisis of character consistency where gwen can't go home to earth 65, can't come out of the closet, and can't even refer to herself as an adult, the long game for neutralizing gwiles and restoring gwen's character is using synergy to pull her out of it.

but even then it's gonna be a fucking rollercoaster ride that could derail at any time and the realistic best-case scenario will still lead to gwiles happening again, just makorrafied.

here's the short version:

now walk with me:

first, gwen's always been and always will be subject to synergy. all comics characters are, but gwen is especially vulnerable to it.

her creation in 2014 right after the general audience learned gwen died barely a year ago in amazing spider-man 2, ship teasing her with peter immediately and and being kept on a pedestal away from all spider-men but him? absolutely meant to capture emma stone/andrew garfield nostalgia. to the point where the original voice in people's heads when they read gwen's comics was absolutely emma's.

ten years ago, petergwen was the original gwiles. it was a ship between gwen and a far more popular spider-man that reduced her to the role of supportive girlfriend, took her away from her world, her stories and the people who love her, prevented her from being her own person-- and wouldn't let her explore her sexuality. and it felt like a given that it would happen.

like i remember reading those original spiderverse comics in 2014, being afraid gwen was just going to be a plot device to make peter parker sad. that she'd get killed by morlun at the end of the arc, and he'd have even more gwen angst. and then, after she lived, that he'd throw away decades of development for a terrible fling with a barely-legal variant of his dead girlfriend.

instead, that didn't happen. because a lot of writers and editors worked like fuck for years to keep it from happening. they kept them apart, or kept their interactions on a tight leash. now, ten years later, peter and gwen's interactions have a big brother/little sister vibe. they're out of the danger zone. the consensus is "peter and gwen sometimes have tension early in their dynamic, but they get past it and stay friends" and that's rippled out into other media's spider-peter and spider-gwen dynamics (the marvel's spider-man cartoon? does exactly that. gwen and peter have a shiptease, but ultimately stay friends).

the arrival of the spiderverse movies did half the heavy lifting, because gwen's character started taking cues from those movies instead. the pressure to pair peter/gwen shifted to miles/gwen.

it went nowhere for a bit. they aren't friends. they just team up occasionally in group settings. miles is with tiana toomes and gwen's solo, while it lasted, gave her a few dates with harry and she's one conversation away from getting together with em jay. it felt like they were leaving the danger zone too.

but atsv pushed them back in the red. now years of the same anti-petergwen care must be applied to salvage that dynamic and protect gwen's character in the comics and any other media where she appears (movies? games? cartoons? same principle. keep them the fuck apart and give them other love interests to kill that vibe before it can poison anything else).

there's still a clear road out and a few different ways to get there. one of the simplest ones is the same way we got into this mess: use the synergy.

it takes time, careful writing, an alternate ship, and a new property for editorial to leech off of to change the flow of synergy and stop a bad plotline from taking root.

so... where do we seem to be going, and how can we escape?

the spiderverse era:

we know the drill: spiderverse synergy yields an ongoing where editorial wants gwen away from earth 65, in the multiverse, hanging around peter and miles, ambiguously a teenager, and the writer has no choice but to follow those edicts if they want the gig. we've done this already with the mcguire run. we're doing it again right now with the phillips run. we'll probably do it at least one more time when btsv hits.

itsv synergy led to gwen exploring the multiverse when not on 65 (and a character beat where miles crushes on her and she's totally indifferent), the book flopping and getting canned 10 issues in, a relaunch about commuting from 65 to 616 with her eventually moving to 616 for good, that one getting canned after 10 issues too, gwen hanging around 616 and helping out in a few events, and then several multiverse-themed miniseries that put gwen back in 65 without much explanation, eventually ending in her back home for the whole story... and getting extremely close to coming out of the closet and starting a romance with em jay.

atsv synergy is trying to plant gwen in 616 For Good this time, and putting her in a few movie-tie-in events to seal the deal... and nobody wants it. the announcement of gwen's new status quo was met with annoyance and indifference from non-gwen fans, and disappointment from gwen fans. nobody wants this thing except for a minority of hardcore gwiles shippers who don't even buy her comics.

we're probably looking at a similar pattern as last time's attempt: a flop that's canned after a few arcs (maybe even 10 issues), a possible stab at gwiles during the book, a possible relaunch and likely second flop if the 616 status quo is kept, then back to miniseries that gradually return her to her own world. (it would be great if gwen keeps her ongoing and is quietly sent back to 65, possibly even with the same writer, but we can't bet on that.)

btsv comes out in 3-5 years. whatever progress gwen does make towards making it home will likely be yanked back because we'll probably rinse and repeat the sv synergy shit again: another gwen-in-616/multiverse-themed ongoing relaunch that flops, followed by miniseries, probably with gwiles round 3 cranked up even harder somewhere along the way.

-> but maybe 🤞 with gwen confirmed as bisexual by that point. they might not let gwen get a girlfriend in under 5 years, but letting her say "i'm bi" feels possible. she's one conversation away from coming out, and her writers keep putting her in queercoded storylines with women she has chemistry with. at some point, all that momentum's going to break through.

for the immediate future, it's not looking good.

what's that? it's cindy moon with a steel chair!

by then the moonissance should be underway thanks to the insomniac spider-man 3 game dropping around btsv. cindy moon/silk is insomniac's spider-woman instead of ghost-spider.

yes, there was that scrapped multiplayer concept where spider-gwen's a prominent character. but it was scrapped.

if gwen's in the games, she'll have a supporting role, most likely as a civilian, hopefully not as peter or miles' love interest. maybe as cindy's.

-> if gwen is miles's interest, fuck. (unlikely: insomniac's pretty committed to hailey, and tiana toomes is semi-canon thanks to a tie-in novel. it's more likely for them to favor those love interests than cram gwen in out of nowhere.)

-> if she's peter's, it's annoying but salvageable. (also unlikely: it'd be pretty dumb to build up peter/mj as a committed relationship just to replace her with gwen right as they're about to settle down)

-> ... but if she's cindy's? this might be the ace in the hole.

if ism3 comes out before btsv, btsv instantly becomes outdated for putting gwen back in the closet for a straight ship. that poisons the gwiles synergy well ("are you really sure you want to get them together if it means turning miles into the kind of homophobic douchebag who'd shove gwen back in the closet so he can kiss her whenever he wants?").

if ism3 comes out after, then gwiles's chokehold on the post-btsv fandom gets an immediate rebuttal, and if comics-gwen was forced into a romance with miles during the btsv synergy era, cindy gives her a clear path out: coming out, possibly leaving miles for cindy (... and, since miles's reputation is the one they'll want to protect, giving him a way to step aside that makes him look good by framing him as an ally who graciously gives up his romance so gwen can be happy). no matter what, gwiles takes a serious hit and is forever associated with gwen being in the closet.

if gwen's not openly bi in the comics yet, they might go there to ride insomniac's coattails, and tease a gwen/cindy ship for synergy's sake. we keep insisting on em jay being gwen's first girlfriend, but cindy might be the dark horse who takes it.

(even if it's just queerbait, fine. it's another female love interest dangled in front of gwen, and it makes both characters' queerness harder to deny.)

then we have the spiderverse spin-off spider-women to contend with. first, it may not happen at all; all three female superhero team movies we've gotten so far haven't done well financially or been fondly received, and we've gotten basically no info about sw other than a vague suggestion that they still want to do it.

if it happens, it'll be 3-5 years after btsv.

and if spider-women releases... first of all, gwen might be single after the events of btsv, or she'll get a birds-of-prey-2020 plot about finding herself after breaking up with miles, which are the better scenarios but the most unlikely. in the event that sv gwen is still Miles's Girlfriend, the plot is supposedly intended to be a multiversal adventure centering gwen, jess drew and cindy moon so hopefully he won't be in it much or at all.

regardless, there's going to be a comic tie-in. synergy will send gwen on an interdimensional team-up event with whoever the cast are. and since cindy's going to be riding high off ism3... even if she isn't in sw, she'll still probably appear in some capacity, and this'll likely be the second round of synergy that pairs her and gwen.

no matter the context of the relationship or whether sw releases, gwen and cindy's bond is likely to get a big focus in a few years. it's just a question of what kind of relationship it'll be. are gwen and cindy going to be friends, harley-and-ivy-circa-2013-'friends' or a canon couple?

and even if gwen doesn't appear at all in the games or they're not shipped at all, cindy is on track to become the new Default Spider-Woman: she's a lead in one of the biggest games in the world, which will definitely be released, there's a slim chance the tv series might be revived, and cindy will almost certainly be in spider-women and is likely to be the breakout character of that lineup. even if only the game happens, cindy will still be the newest, hottest toy to play with.

which means in 5-10 years, we're either looking at a spider-quad, with peter, miles, gwen and cindy... or, since trios are easier to adapt and market, cindy could get the push from editorial to replace gwen as the One Girl in the trio and become the default female spider for a new generation of kids to relate to (... and more importantly, for their parents to buy merchandise of).

therefore, gwen could finally go home for good, assuming she hasn't already.

if gwen doesn't have an ongoing at the time spider-women happens, she'll probably get one again. or at the bare minimum, she'll get a mini.

possibly even as an openly bisexual character because even if gwen doesn't come out in the comics until then/isn't queer in the games, the resistance to her coming-out will be a lot smaller because:

-> a) the unspoken concern keeping gwen in the closet-- that making ghost-spider queer will lead homophobic parents to refuse to buy their kids her merch anymore-- will no longer be that big of a loss if it does happen, because if silk takes ghost-spider's place as the new Flagship Female Spider, it'll be expected that parents will be buying silk stuff for their kids instead. marvel's still getting their money, just from a different girl.

-> b) which means there's room to tap into a new market. and since the spider-gwen fandom that remain with her will be teens and young adults who would buy her shit even if she's queer (maybe even especially if she's queer)... well, there's your money.

-> c) the 'think of the children' excuse doesn't work if the children in question aren't kids anymore or aren't even into gwen in the first place because they're all about cindy, and if those kids' parents can't get mad at marvel for trying to market gwen to an audience of children when they aren't even doing that. remember, harley quinn didn't get to be canonically bi until she was repackaged as a more mature character for a primarily teen-to-adult audience.

-> d) just saying. the spiderverse is supposedly about showing how anyone can be a spider-hero... yet we still don't have a major canonically queer spider. that's the one part of the spiderverse that marvel's stayed quiet on. which means there's a gap to be filled in the story-- and (here's what marvel cares about:) an audience that has yet to be reached out to, who will give them money and good press when they do it.

gwen is the ideal character to be that first queer main spider-hero because it's a core part of her story, there's already a demand for it, and if the right choices are made about which characters and relationships to promote, the backlash to her coming out will fade away with time and become smaller than the potential gain.

we don't know what the climate for queer characters in kids' media will be in 6-10 years. maybe it'll be so good that gwen's queerness won't affect her presence in spider-man stories. maybe she'll be allowed to come out... and then quietly shuffled out of the main lineup. but even if marvel sidelines gwen away from the Straight Spiders, that benefits her character because it means there's a lot less pressure on her to be on earth-616. which means she can go home and stay there.

gwen's stories are already queer as hell, even with all the synergy and the pressure of being every little girl's spider-hero keeping her in the closet. when that weight is off her back, maybe that'll be all we need to go for it.

it took five years to get gwen away from amazing spider-man nostalgia and the threat of being Peter's Designated Girlfriend, and they did it with a combo of controlling their interactions to keep them from getting together and shifting to the spiderverse and making gwen Miles's Designated Girlfriend. it'll take ten more years to get her away from spiderverse synergy and the threat of gwiles. and the way to do that is to avoid miles wherever possible, keep building towards gwen's coming-out and shift to riding insomniac's coattails to get us there.

(hell, the five-year overlap opening will probably repeat too. in the five years between asm2 and itsv, peter/gwen started to fade away as she was pushed towards miles without being consistently shipped yet... which created an opportunity for gwen to develop romantic interests in harry, em jay and possibly hobie. there'll probably be one between btsv and spider-women, and insomniac spider-man 3 will be out by then. good time to get some distance from gwiles and give her a gf.)

the most efficient way to do this is by confirming gwen's bisexuality as fast as possible in the comics and games, but because of cindy taking gwen's place, the path's still there even if they don't move on it until after spider-women comes out.

... but then we'll have live-action miles probably in development for sony or the mcu, assuming it doesn't happen even sooner. there's no mention of a live-action spider-gwen solo movie or show in consideration (or even an animated show), so at this point, if gwen shows up in other media, it'll be as a supporting character in miles or peter's story.

and that could make or break things for good.

the live-action era:

we'll see how old she is compared to miles and peter, and who their love interests will be. that determines everything.

1) if it's a sony movie about miles, it's more likely than not that gwen's going to be his age/his love interest. sony made the spiderverse movies, lord and miller and pascal (who love the ship) would still probably have creative influence, everyone expects it, you know it's coming.

even if gwen isn't spider-gwen, editorial's gonna force another round of gwiles synergy all over again and the clock's reset to zero. insert another gwen-in-616 attempt, another forced gwiles attempt, another refusal to let her come out and another ten years of unraveling her from that mess.

-> and because it's live-action, everybody will have seen it. unlike video games and animated movies, which have broader appeal than comics, but are still somewhat limited.

-> but if it's a sony movie, it's probably gonna be a mess that'll leave a bad taste in people's mouths and not have much longevity. hopefully there'd be an opening to wiggle out of there.

-> if gwen isn't his love interest / isn't in the sony film at all, well there you go. whoever that girlfriend is will get a boost, and gwen will have that gwiles pressure off her back. it's possible. just don't be optimistic.

2) if it's a spiderverse teamup... pack it up. they'll shoehorn spider-gwen in since she's the most popular female spider-hero, she'll be a bland girlboss who'll probably be shipped with miles or peter. earth 65 takes another hit. the damage may be irreparable because spider-gwen will be seen by everyone as their love interest.

3) but in terms of the mcu, they'll definitely do miles someday, but they're gonna put peter first.

if i had to guess, peter's getting a college trilogy. maybe not after he has his 'neglect peter in favor of spider-man' arc, but he's gotta have his college movies at some point. when peter graduates at the end of sm6, and we no longer have a teen/young adult spider-man for kids to relate to, that's the ideal time to introduce miles. and THEN miles gets his high school trilogy with peter as a mentor figure.

and since gwen was peter's love interest before she was miles's, and peter's iconic college relationships haven't been adapted yet, there's a 50/50 chance that she'll be introduced there, along with harry and a more comics-accurate version of mj.

(if gwen's introduced as a member of miles's cast, we're fucked. plain and simple. the transfer from being a part of peter's cast to being part of miles's will be complete in the eyes of the audience. that shit's gonna follow her everywhere forever, especially since the mcu lasts for fucking ever.)

if gwen is peter's age, ESPECIALLY if peter and gwen are a couple in his college years, we might get out of the gwiles pit for good:

a) gwen might die before ever meeting miles. and even if she doesn't...

b) there's no bigger bro code violation than dating your friend's ex. let alone your mentor's ex

c) the ick of live action college-aged-or-older gwen and high-school aged miles is impossible to reconcile. sitting in a tree on steroids. everyone who sees them together in any other medium (comics, games, cartoons, you name it) is just going to picture those actors, and no one will be able to brush the age gap aside for as long as these movies and the versions of their characters last. and it's the mcu, so it'll last a damn while. even a possible reboot/sony version will have that baggage attached.

so if gwen dates peter first, she'll never date miles in live-action without it being hated by everyone. and the comics will never want to revisit a romantic connection between them as a result. even though spider-gwen =/= peter's-gf-gwen, nobody's gonna see it that way. we can work with that!

petergwen synergy might make its way back... but we all know there's zero chance he won't end up with mj, in the movies, in the comics, in anything, so there's less danger there. the most that'll happen is spider-gwen having to pat peter while he cries on his shoulder about his dead gwen. annoying, but not derailing.

if gwiles happens in live-action, it's game over for fully moving past gwiles and being queer for good. gwen might survive the animated movies on their own, but not the one-two punch of animated movies and live-action. that would guarantee that she'll always be seen as miles's love interest, that they can never be friends without that threat looming over them, and that any progress she makes away from miles will likely be temporary before she's inevitably dragged back to him by editorial. we'll have to rely on comics contrivances like one more daying it or dropping continuity to get her out of there, and those will never last for good.

but if petergwen happens in the mcu, that makes the likelihood of a comics gwiles revisit slim for a solid decade. which creates a decade's worth of opportunity for gwen to seek other love interests that'll make gwiles's status lessen in importance even more.

add the ten year window where gwiles can't stop gwen from being bi to whatever happens in the comics in between sv movies and after insomniac's spider-man series wraps up. the bi gwen momentum is already chugging away. that window could be filled with female love interests who actually get to stick around. (giving gwen male love interests will just signal to straight fans that she's available for a straight romance because straight people don't understand what bisexuality is. she has to date women for that label to stick and for people to get the message that she doesn't belong to miles or peter.)

i know i keep circling back to 'make gwen bi', but it's the truth. the way to escape spiderverse synergy, gwen being stuck as Miles's Girlfriend forever, and gwen getting away from being Spider-Man's Girlfriend for good has been the same since 2018.

make gwen bisexual.

(yes, bi. the spiderverse movies introducing spider-gwen to a generation of kids as a girl who's attracted to men guaranteed that she'll never be a lesbian or asexual in canon. have your headcanons, but it's too late for that to ever happen in reality. if you're gonna campaign for a canonically-queer spider-gwen, you have to ask for her to be bi because that's the only type of queer that stands a chance at being canon someday. get mad at lord and miller, not me.)

(it'd be awesome if spiderverse-gwen's trans coding catches on... but it's just not likely enough to realistically hope for. marvel's far more likely to standardize making gwen bi than trans, and it wouldn't occur to them that she could be both. which she'd have to be, because ignoring ten years of buildup to gwen coming out as sapphic and saying 'hey! she's this other kind of queer but is still only into men!' isn't satisfying. gwen can be trans, but must be bi.)

it's been built up so strongly in the comics that it's not really a question of if she's bi anymore. it's when will they say it out loud? and will it stick or be shoved under the rug so gwiles can happen?

that's the issue. gwen's never been closer to coming out. it could happen as early as the very next issue of her ongoing. it could be next month, next year, a few years, in a decade... or it could literally never happen at all, because she'll get crammed into a romance with miles and her queerness will be stifled to keep her with him. and we have no idea which it'll be. that's what's so frustrating: we have no idea if we're about to get everything we've been waiting an entire decade for, or if it's getting taken away forever and gwen'll end up being the girl chappell roan's singing about in good luck babe!.

(and that's the thing with gwiles. no matter how much chemistry they have, or how well-executed the romance is in the spiderverse movies or anywhere else, this ship can only happens if gwen stifles her queerness, her need to go home to the world full of people who love and need her and her story... and the longer it goes on, the more miles becomes responsible for doing that to her. it's a homophobic, misogynistic gut-punch to both characters disguised as a happy ending. the movies haven't fixed this. if anything, by introducing this romance to the general public, they've guaranteed it'll spread to other canon and delay or permanently cut off her coming-out arc.)

other media is the factor that can speed up gwen's coming-out and make it definitive, or slow it down and reduce gwen to momentary bursts of queerness in between nonstop gwiles slog.

but even if gwiles happens and sticks, it's not the end of the world.

the obvious narrative way out has already been stated earlier: gwen comes out of the closet and leaves miles to explore her sexuality, and miles supports her in doing it.

look, every time they've been shipped together so far, gwen has always rejected him and he just keeps pushing, but the writers and fandom keep ignoring gwen's feelings because this ship isn't about gwen, or miles-and-gwen. it's about miles getting what he wants, which is a pretty white girl with a famous name and superpowers who can't stand up to him. therefore, the only way out that'll stick is for miles to be the one to end things.

the best way to redeem him for the homophobic undertones of encouraging her to stay in a romance she isn't capable of wanting, is for him to voluntarily end the relationship, wish her well, and support her in exploring her queerness.

it's the best way to end the relationship with miles looking as good as possible. and since the fandom and marvel are very defensive about miles and his ego, they're gonna want it to end in a way that makes him the good guy.

and it's also how we make this ship too radioactive to return to. once you show miles realizing the girl he likes is queer, and putting his feelings aside to support her, he can never go on and try to date that queer girl again without it being a hideous character assassination.

that's the best way to do it. but there are others. comics are meant to last forever, so the story will never have an ending. even marriage and kids, the typical ending, can be retconned or walked back. like, peter and mj were married for years, and then they weren't and still haven't gotten back together even though literally everyone in the fandom keeps demanding it. if that can happen to one of the most famous couples in comics, gwen can sure as hell make a deal with mephisto to retcon her comphet brats out of existence, especially since gwen-8 already technically attempted it in the latour run. hopefully it doesn't get to that point though.

if it does, here are some comics-specific ways out that don't revolve around gwen coming out and leaving miles to be openly queer. i am very aware that they suck, so let's just not gwiles at all please.

it was all a mysterio-induced illusion.

gwilesified gwen was a clone the whole time, and real spider-gwen's trapped or hiding somewhere.

amnesia plot. they forget they were ever together.

pull a batcat wedding. huge event that aggressively advertises a wedding that ends in the bride getting cold feet, realizing how wrong the relationship is and leaving the groom at the altar. good for her. make the fandom so angry about being blueballed that they won't want to see her in close proximity with miles again.

have gwen cheat on miles with someone; even better if it's his friend. for maximum chaos make it his clone or his best friend's dad. (if miles cheats, he'll be forgiven. if gwen cheats, she'll be witchhunted for decades by his fans... which means they'll never get back together!🥳).

have gwen go out for cigarettes and a carton of milk one night and simply not come back. 1) she would. especially if earth-8 happens. 2) it would make the miles fans hate her.

... kill gwen off. (it'll never be miles.) have miles move on. and then when she's eventually resurrected she just never gets back together with him. if you're gonna force her to be Spider-Man's Girlfriend again, you may as well fridge her too. just go ahead and do own that miles is just as bad for her as peter was. make the taste in our mouths about this ship so bad that we can never return to it.

drop the plot. just drop it. end one book and start another with them randomly not together and just never mention it again. you do a shit job with the rest of gwen's continuity. why not this?

one more day. nuclear option. the devil himself can break that marriage up and get rid of those kids.

wait a few decades for editorial to switch out and pray that the powers that be give a shit about gwen and will let this ship die. (they won't.)

speaking of.

.... post-first live action miles morales (so... twenty years from now):

alright i've come this far let me throw out a controversial expectation: they're gonna do gwiles again. they are. they just are.

much like the petergwen vibe, gwiles is going to be an unavoidable part of spider-gwen's character moving forward. sitting in a tree was rightly hated and aggressively ignored, but then the spiderverse movies dug up that storyline and pumped life back into it.

and now it's too late. the spiderverse movies are too beloved, popular and well-reviewed for gwiles not to happen again. marvel has hard proof that this couple will make them money, win them praise and avoid controversy. (... and they also know that making gwen miles's girlfriend is an effective way to stop her from being queer and cut off her coming-out arc from ever culminating into anything, while looking progressive). an entire generation of people-- especially children-- now expect gwiles whenever they see gwen or miles (even when they aren't even in the same place or are dating different people), perceive their romance as a good thing, and expect spider-gwen to be attracted to men.

when those kids grow up, some of them will become writers for marvel. and they'll do what the current writers do and resurrect the ghosts of their favorite childhood spider-man stories (which is why Gwen Stacy Death Nostalgia keeps happening even today; that's what the powers that be grew up with, and they're writing for the kids they used to be, not the kids that exist now). which means spiderverse nostalgia. which means gwiles. even if gwiles don't get together in the spiderverse movies, they'll still do it because they'll want to 'fix' that. and all it takes is one dumbass writer to make it happen. so it'll happen.

if the worst-case scenario of gwiles in btsv, gwiles in the games, gwiles in live-action, comic-gwen never goes home, marries miles and has the comphet spawn happens, well no shit the next generation of writers are gonna keep gwilesing. it's functionally over for her and she'll never meaningfully escape.

but even if the best-case scenario pipe dream of gwen never canonically dating him in any media post-btsv, going home to earth-65, coming out and only having romantic relationships with women happens (95% sure it won't)... gwiles is going to resurface in the comics in some capacity, and will probably reappear in other spider-gwen adaptations: games, movies, tv shows, you name it. the horse is out of the barn. it is too late to stop it. we will always have to deal with this ship.

what can be changed is the context in which the ship exists. the name of the game is now putting an end to the "endgame star-crossed soulmates destined to marry and start a nuclear family" dogshit sitting in a tree and spiderverse insist on by... doing what i keep repeating:

1) let gwen come out. either say "i'm bi / into women" or show her kissing a girl. 2) have miles acknowledge gwen's queerness and support it. 3) give gwen female love interests that last in multiple mediums and adaptations to solidify her sexuality so everyone knows (especially those kids who were introduced to her through the spiderverse movies and have no idea that she's a closeted queer girl or that their romance storyline's about gwen being pressured into pretending to be straight and miles letting it happen so he can have her to himself) and marvel can't pull a kitty pryde and pretend like it never happened. 4) build up both gwen and miles' romances with other characters, so people who want to ship them have better canon options. (for gwen, these can be female or male after she's had at least one major girlfriend)

and since a significant section of the trilogy's young fandom acknowledge spiderverse gwen's trans-coding-- or even want gwen to be bi or a lesbian, despite the heavy gwiles preference of the films and lack of any positive dynamic between gwen and any female characters-- there's a good chance that once the spiderverse kids see that gwen's canonically bi, they'll run with it. we just have to get them there.

the best case scenario that can be realistically hoped for is a petergwen scenario (or a peter-and-any-girl-who-isn't-mj scenario): accepting as a given that a staple of spider-gwen's character in any future adaptations will be a probable romance with miles morales, but instead of it being a given, it's merely an option that doesn't necessarily need to exist. and if it does exist, instead of it being an endgame romance, reframe it into a temporary flirtation before they move on to other people.

to make a comparison: we need the collective mindset about gwiles to shift from kataang to makorra-- from "childhood sweethearts who never break up" to "hormonal teens who have a rocky first romance that quickly implodes, but they come out of it as friends and he supports her when she goes on to date a girl". or from 1990s joker-and-harley to 2020s joker-and-harley-- from "the female character only appears in proximity to her boyfriend and is totally defined by her romance with him" to "everyone sees the female character as an individual, knows she's queer, and understands that if she and this guy have a romance, it'll only be temporary, and sometimes he doesn't factor into her story at all."

so, a compromise. give the gwileses what they want, and then give queer gwen what she needs. the makorrafication of gwiles means everyone wins.

we can work with that. gwen and miles's respective stories are at their best when they're about embracing their marginalized identities after rejecting assimilating into the dominant culture they're being marginalized from (straightness and whiteness respectively). they need to start the story by trying to do that so their arcs are more pronounced, and their romantic arcs should reflect their overall arcs. it does actually make the most sense if miles's first major love interest is a white girl he feels pressured to tone down his blackness for, and gwen's is a straight boy she's comphetting with, because the point is they have to grow out of that.

like, as a certified decade-long Gwiles Hater, there is actually a case for gwiles as a romantic plotline, and it's that. the issue with gwiles is the way the ship's been framed. once we change the framing, and that framing is widespread and accepted, we're good. and it is going to take a long time to do. (remember, it took twenty-five years to break up harley and the joker for good. optimistically, it's gonna take that long to get gwen out of gwiles.)

gwen and miles don't necessarily need to be each other's first relationship (that role can be filled by plenty of other white girls and straight boys, and they're best as friends in entirely separate worlds), but it can work as long as it's within that context: fine, they can get together. but they must break up.

that's the way out.

but again, we just don't know what we're dealing with yet. the rollercoaster car might have derailed already and it just hasn't flown away yet. or maybe we'll make it after a couple dicey turns and a fucking agonizing loop or two. man i hate not knowing.

[missamyshay]

PeterMJ:

One-shots:

• maroon | E | 13.4k | Peter and MJ spend an eventful 24 hours together after three years apart.

• A Sticky Situation | T | 4.9k | A college love story, as told through sticky notes.

• On the lifespan of houseplants | M | 7.5k | Peter and MJ’s first month as a couple who live together.

• your kiss is warm (and your touch turns me to pieces) | M | 6.9k | Peter and MJ finally get round to watching that show everyone’s been talking about.

• wait for me to come home | G | 2.7k | When Peter goes missing for two weeks, MJ finally gets their wedding photos developed.

• The Balcony | T | 6.4k | Peter spends an unlikely New Year’s Eve with his neighbour and her cat.

• baby, I know… | E | 4.6k | The night before their wedding, MJ and Peter would much rather be with each other.

• right next to you | E | 2.9k | Under a sliver of moonlight, Peter and MJ choose each other one more time.

• Love, Nana Jones. | E | 4.6k | In which Peter Parker finds an unlikely wingman.

• loops and circles | T | 12.9k | In the wake of Peter's sudden death, MJ learns to crochet.

• like a moonbeam | T | 13.8k | A Notting Hill AU.

• 74 minutes | T | 7.4k | Five times Peter makes MJ a mixtape and one time she makes one for him.

Multi-chaps:

• keep driving | E | 5 chaps | This is not a happy story.

• timeless | T | 3 chaps | On December 8th, 2018, Peter Parker meets MJ Watson. It’s not the first time.

• glitch | E | 3 chaps | Yes, sleeping with your ex is objectively a bad idea. Except when it isn’t. (WIP)

• chiaroscuro | G | 2 chaps | Famous!MJ and Photographer!Peter meet again after high school. (WIP)

• sparks and embers | M | In which MJ and Peter find their ways back to each other—taking the long way round. (WIP)

• Curious Time | M | 21 chaps | Twenty years of Peter and MJ, every June 26. A One Day AU. (WIP)

• spotlights and moonlight with @seek--rest | M | 16 chaps | A Bodyguard AU. (WIP)

Tumblr prompts:

• “We shouldn’t be doing this. Not here.”

• “Tell me again.”

CoffeeBeanGang & FOS:

One-shots:

• on my way | T | 21.3k | Five years after a tragedy that shook their lives, Spider-Man and his friends meet for coffee on Christmas Eve.

Multi-chaps:

• across the hall | E | 33 chaps | The Friends AU no one asked for.

May & Peter:

One-shots:

• for unexpected mothers and fathers | T | 10.6k | May, Peter, and the challenge of unplanned parenthood.

• milk & eggs | G | 3.8k | Post NWH, Peter gets five more minutes with May.

Spider-Man & New York City:

One-shots:

• honey, come over. | G | 7.6k | Post NWH, Spidey’s first Christmas.

PeterGwen

One-shots:

• still life | T | 10.7k | the night Gwen Stacy died, and what came after.

PeterFel

Multi-chaps:

• the sweetest torture with @abcd-em | E | 2 chaps | post-NWH Felicia POV. (WIP)

RioMay

One-shots:

• waves in the wind | T | 11k | Rio and May, through the years.

[watsonparkers]

hi, you can call me maria!

my favorite characters:

mj watson (+ michelle jones)

miles morales

felicia hardy

gwen stacy (earth 616 + 65)

peter parker

cindy moon

kamala khan

harry osborn

ganke lee

jessica drew

hobie brown

the x-men

my favorite ships

petermj

gwenmj (616 + 65)

ghostflower (spiderverse)

peterfel

feliciamj

petergwen (616)

milesganke

samkamiles

tianamiles

spideytorch

punkflower

silkcat

glorymj

parksborn

the mary janes polycule

more: don't follow if you're proship or a reader/character blog please. basic DNI criteria + being abnoxious/mean or not having patience to deal with autistic people who are bad with social clues / rules.

psa: i'm a comics fan first and foremost, but i like everything. i'm critical of the mcu (as i am of everything) but i enjoy it too! i have no problem if we disagree with something, just please be respectful because i will always be too.

that's it 💗

[sciderman]

Sci do you have a list of your Spotify playlistS? I don't think they're public on your page

oh god. oh god. okay. brace yourself. i'm going to dump ALL of them.

he helps with the rent - the ask-spiderpool playlist (to be listened in chronological order)

Wade Wilson - 9319 wade's official soundtrack (69 tracks. 4:20 runtime. put on your leg-warmers and brace yourself for maximum gender.)

Peter Parker - 9319 peter's official soundtrack (anthems for awkward horny mid-2000s teenagers everywhere.)

🕷🎱 - the all-purpose spideypool playlist (unhealthy. horny. unofficially dubbed the hate-fuck playlist.)

🕷️🔥 - the spideytorch playlist (it's adorable. sunshine feelings. more heart-healthy than your daily weetabix.)

🔌🎱 - the cablepool playlist (i listen to it for immediate pain. chronological order.)

petergwen - the peter x gwen playlist (i listen to it an unreasonable amount. it gives me unreasonably strong peter parker feelings)

peterharry - the peter x harry playlist (listening to this back-to-back with the gwen playlist is whiplash of the highest degree)

face it tiger - the petermj playlist (soft, sweet unrequited love)

meouch! - the feliciapeter playlist (short. feisty. like their relationship)

wadenessa - wade x vanessa (so, so horny, and really quite gender.)

HOT MONSTER WIFE - shiklah x wade (you know how it is when you're literally being eaten alive by a hot succubus)

🍆💦 - the all-purpose horny playlist (for if you're getting physical)

Wade's Self-Love Playlist - (aka. the I'm Doing Hot Girl Shit playlist)

songs wade has committed murder to - (aka. the I'm Doing Hot Girl Shit with a kalashnikov playlist)

Peter Parker's Bedroom Mix - songs that teenage Peter Parker had on his shitty little MP3 player in the year of our lord 2005 and belted out the lyrics to in his childhood bedroom

Teen Wade Feelings - (a lot to unpack here.)

Bahama Boys - summer lovin' (insta-serotonin)

Halloween at the Parker-Wilson Household - (Wade and Peter's party playlist for this year's notorious Rocky Horror shindig)

trouble in paradise - a playlist for this hell arc we're in right now (chronological order. spoilers - there's a happy ending)

❤️ Anita Lotta Love ❤️ - my beloved... 

~

dear god. that's all the marvel playlists.

a few personal little playlists:

i'm alive (or something) - my yearning playlist (for when i yearn) (all the time)

gender euphoria for one humble sci - gender feelioes

🤕 - songs for one baby boy who's had their heart broken (me)

disassociation station - (for when i need the fastest train off the planet immediately)

✌☮ - (sheer vibes) 

sci's jams - all purpose jams (14 hours of my favourite heart-feel songs)

[kevinday]

vent/ kind of bothered by tom holland's spider-man sometimes bc he's a BABIE and not the peter parker i picture and it makes me crave 28 years old comics/616!peter. like, i love the canon ships and i'd love to read more of the original petermj, petergwen and spideytorch and even peterflash on ao3 bc shipping is fun?

and some issues have cute panels with peter/wade and tony/peter but you can't say that you want more content for them because ppl will think that you mean teenager mcu peter and either give u the biggest side-eye or straight up call u gross, which is understandable, but like. i'm frustrated. 616!peter i miss u. tasm!peter i miss u even more

[hoediaz]

okay but who’s who in the spiderman buddie au.

oh anon... you've just opened the biggest can of worms ever i'm so sorry for what's about to happen. this got. way too long so i'm putting this under a cut to save everyone but the TLDR is version is: eddie is peter parker/spider-man, buck is both johnny storm/the human torch and mary jane watson, shannon is gwen stacy rip. way too long explanation below if you care it's ok if u don't xoxo

first of all, i'm mostly going off of 616 comics spider-man & co just bc there's a Lot of it and i am deeply unwell. so. eddie is peter. eddie is also not peter, because i think 616 peter is like MUCH more aggressive and prone to violence than eddie would ever be. peter threw wolverine out of a window bc he vaguely insulted mary jane. eddie's foray into violence was demonstrably Wrong. peter being violent is like, a tuesday. however, there is a lot of overlap: they are both (sometimes over-)protective, they both have a very firm and clear sense of responsibility (again, sometimes to their detriment), they both put the weight of the world on their shoulders when no one asked (shannon's "bc eddie always know what's best for everyone, god forbid you stop for a second and actually ask them what they need" v peter core), they will both fight until the bitter end to make it back to their family, neither of them can hold off on being a little bit of a bitch sometimes, etc etc. two pieces of canonical pieces of evidence to support this that no one asked for: first, peter being an asshole about psychics (peter, you. literally have superpowers) and "he's never going to stop trying" yeah <3 ... Yeah <3

now. buck. now here's the thing, literally the first thing i thought when i first heard buck say, "as far as i'm concerned the world began when i was born," in s1e1 was, "wow johnny storm core." buck is very deeply johnny like, beat for beat, buck (and especially s1 buck) is johnny storm. surface level whore who really just wants a family above all else? hot tempered one second, crazy empathetic the next? raised and loved by his older sister more than anyone else in the world? surrounded by family and "meaningful relationships" but still feeling alone most of the time? clinging to romantic relationships that don't work, or are straight up bad for him? buck is quite literally johnny's tethered. johnny textually calling himself expendable and i'm supposed to be normal ok:

johnny and peter's comic relationship too -- starting off at each other's throats, eventually becoming best friends, johnny quite literally putting peter in his will, etc etc -- has a Lot of buddie hallmarks too.

buck also has BIG mary jane energy, which makes sense because johnny and mj are pretty similar as it is. (also. to be on my gwenmj shit for a second, buddie big gwenmj energy with mj talking about gwen: "she did her best to make [us best friends], even when i kept her at arms length, the way i did with everyone. she saw through the party girl mask i always wore, saw the frightened, abused kid inside.")

so i guess, to stop nerding out about spider-man for ten seconds and actually answer your question, in my image of a buddie spider-man au, eddie is spider-man no doubt. but there's So many different directions it could go for buck (peter biggest whore in all of comics fr) (the peterfel hero vs cat burglar angle would be delicious. the petermj soulmates angle -- one more day au where married buddie has their marriage and future daughter erased from the timeline absolutely delicious. the petergwen secret identity to Tragic End angle, peterjohnny rivals to besties angle. it's all delicious) BUT i think if i were to sit down and really write one, i would go with the buck as both johnny and mary jane. i'm not sure if i would go with buddie both being superheroes, eddie with a secret identity, buck as a pseudo-celebrity, or with eddie secret identity superhero and buck as a Normal Person (buck knowing eddie's spider-man p much the whole time just like mary jane did so real and so true). either way, shannon for sure as gwen, eddie's first love who he couldn't save. buck as both johnny (peter talking to gwen's grave: "but when i'm around johnny storm i can hear myself cracking wise again") and mary jane (staying with peter after gwen dies even when he tries to push her away) in the aftermath of everything.

honestly, the two things keeping me from a spider-man au the most are a) superhero aus require Plot and i am so bad at coming up with Plots and b) i would be so tempted to just. straight up copy the comics and swap out the names. the negative zone arc, with buck "dying" only to be (mostly) alive in the negative zone where he's forced to fight in gladiator style competitions, dying over and over again for two years (but only ~3 months for eddie & co)? the first person buck sees when he manages to get out of the negative zone being eddie? or, uncanny avengers #20, buck being possessed by the red skull, who tortures eddie by threatening to kill buck in front of him? or, post civil war eddie having the knowledge of his secret identity wiped from everyone's memories, only for buck to Know there's something wrong? they're all so buddie coded right out of the box.

ANYWAY god sorry i've never shut up a day in my life! y'all can't ask me about spider-man unless you're prepared for me to be the most annoying person alive god bless

[morwap]

Tasm! Peter Parker x BFF/antihero Reader x spider! Gwen Stacy (poly)

(angst, smut, fluff)

The reader is a feline-themed alias, who involves themselves in thievery and such but will kick your ass if you attack an innocent. Think robin hood. Anyway Reader, Gwen and Peter are like best friends/lovers (Peter and Gwen mainly know each other cause of Reader) and reader notices that the two are leaving her out more and more. Reader doesn't like this and as a result is becoming more on the villain side to release anger. The two notice this and decide to punish reader since they figure she's acting out for attention. Ending in them reassuring that they love her still.

hii baby, i’m sorry but i don’t write poly!petergwen :( i hope you can find someone that does! it sounds like a really good plot

[ohifonlyx33]

DISCLAIMER: I haven't even seen NWH and don't plan to at least until it is released on DVD or streaming, so IDK how NWH ended exactly etc., but my idea is predicated on the [[[SPOILER]]] that APPARENTLY "everyone forgot him" and my own idea that Peter goes to college... or at least TRIES, Sam Raimi style. But i don't actually know the circumstances or if MJ still knows who Peter is, or if he can even GO to college....

IDEA: Peter is in ALL the accelerated college classes he can manage, but so is this girl... not that he's looking to date, he hasn't got the time or the emotional bandwidth... he's not ready for that.

But this girl consistently raises her hand before Peter and gets all the answers right--she corrected a Professor once and Peter is pretty sure they ALL fear her. She's top of her class in every class they share and she knows it. And he's trailing behind her for second place which means she's basically his rival.

And he's pretty sure she's noticed him as her rival too, because she corrected his answer once in class, and he swears he saw her wink at him. He might be crazy, but he catches her glancing at him occasionally with a smug grin on her face when she knows she "beat" him... it's kinda cute though. and he's like WHO IS THIS GIRL???

The more he sees her around, the more brilliant she becomes. She's offering her chips to a friend at lunch and laughing at a joke, picking up a piece of trash and throwing it away, offering to help a friend study, handing out flyers for a blood drive... and maybe one day she sits down at his table in the library one day and says "Hey, Parker."

And he looks up, startled and says "Hey, you're uh, you're in all my classes... Stacy, right?"

She introduces herself properly, offering a hand "Actually, it's Gwen. Gwen Stacy."

And just like that, MCU Gwen Stacy exists. (maybe played by willow shields, or caylee cowan... I was gonna say Kathryn Newton but apparently she plays cassie lang so i guess not)

And just like that Peter officially meets her. His handshake stops mid-greeting. An awkward beat passes and he lets go. "Sorry."

She says nothing, but she's smirking with her eyes, "So I was bored the other day, and I just got to thinking... you know, if you ever need help beating me in class, I could help you study..."

And just like that he gets it. He totally gets it. He understands how, in another lifetime in another world, he could fall in love with this girl. And how losing someone like her could destroy someone. And then he remembers she died in that Peter's world... because of him. And that freaks him out, thoroughly.

No, he's not gonna fall in love with her, probably... not in this universe... not any time soon. but still, he admires her a lot. She has his attention for sure.

"Actually, I don't really study. I mean, I don't have time to study. If I did, maybe' I'd be first. And, and, uh, as nice of it was for you to offer, I'm afraid I have to settle for second place. Besides, you deserve the spot. Anyway, I have to go."

He keeps an eye on her, but won't let himself get too close. Just in case. Not that he's in love with her. But the idea that he could be. And the idea that she could die...

anyway. yeah. that's it. that's the idea. Basically I just want more PeterGwen. And more Gwen. PLEASE.

TL;DR It's not a proper Peter/Gwen love story. It works even if you prefer MJ. It works if he's lonely and misses people, and it STILL works if MJ's right there next to him hitting him on the head with a cardboard tube. It works as a callback. As a small what-if plot, even on top of a story where he ends up with MJ. It can literally be cut down to a two scenes or it can be a focus of the movie. There are different outcomes a Gwen Stacy introduction could have, depending on what kind of direction the movie wants to take and the themes they want to use. It can go along with any love story story they wanted to tell... It doesn't matter because it's a meet cute and a callback that doesn't have to go anywhere, but it COULD... But Gwen there and she's alive and she's wonderful... but she's not necessarily for him... Unless??? no... i mean... maybe... do you... nah... UNLESS??

[traincat]

Thoughts on Marvel's What If? comics?

Like, on them in general? I like them a lot in concept. Why have a multiverse if you can’t have a bunch of weird little short spin-off comics examining what would happen if you nudged one thing to the side. I think in execution they have a fair amount of misses and only so many hits, but you have to cram your canon divergent story into one issue, so it’s a tough job. I have kind of a preference for the grimmer ones -- I like alternate universes that can explore roads the main canon story can’t go down for whatever reason. Character deaths, villain AUs, etc. It’s fun! 

A couple favorites, though these are all Spider-Man and Fantastic Four focused because I am who I am:

What If? (1977) #1: Spider-Man Joined the Fantastic Four: Really starting off the whole series in way particularly targeted to me. Does what it says on the tin, imagining an alternate take of ASM #1 where when Peter tries to join the Fantastic Four they don’t laugh him out of the building. I think this is really rocky in general -- I don’t like the idea that Peter joining would drive Sue straight into Namor’s arms. But it’s on the list for Fantastic Five content anyway.

What If? (1977) #24: Spider-Man Had Rescued Gwen Stacy: What it says on the label. Follows through on the pretty heavy current in ASM before Gwen’s death that Peter and Gwen were planning on getting married, with good Flash and Harry character moments too.

What If? #42: The Invisible Girl Had Died: Who wants to cry? Assumes a version of canon where Sue died in labor with Franklin. Johnny, Ben, and Reed mourn.

What If? (1989) #18: The Fantastic Four Battled Doctor Doom Before They Got Their Powers: Cute little canon divergent story where the Fantastic Four’s first confrontation with Doom happens before they get their powers, when Reed is still living at Sue and Johnny’s aunt’s boarding house. It does use Byrne’s version of the origin story, so unfortunately Sue is depicted as much younger than Reed and Ben.

What If? (1989) #35: The Fantastic Five Fought Doctor Doom and Annihilus: Another Fantastic Five issue! And not the one where Reed like, blows up Atlantis. That one’s weird. This one is another take on Franklin’s birth, in a version of canon where Peter is a member of the team. It’s cute.

What If? (1989) #89: Deadly Inheritance: An alternate take on the Fantastic Four’s origin where the FF are captured after the rocket crash by a mysterious and sinister organization.

What If? #105: Who Is She?: The first appearance of May “Spider-Girl” Parker! The issue that would spin off into the MC2 continuity. Assumes a canon that diverges from 616 after the birth of Peter and Mary Jane’s daughter, in a universe where the baby lived and was recovered. 

What If? Spider-Man vs Wolverine: I think this one’s just kind of fun. A What If? of Spider-Man vs Wolverine where they team up to rescue Charlemagne’s sister and end up a little assassin family.

What If? No More Powers: I have to confess, I think this one’s sort of painfully average as far as What Ifs go, but there’s a moment in it I’m absolutely obsessed with as a piece of commentary on Peter Parker, where, rendered powerless, he flat out says it’s not about the powers.

What If? Back in Black: A Spider-Man What If? focused on the end of Civil War where Mary Jane is shot and killed instead of May and Peter goes on the hunt for the Kingpin.

What If? Grim Hunt: A take on Grim Hunt where Peter rejects Julia Carpenter’s prophecy and kills Kraven, breaking the web and sending him down a murderous path. It’s fun! It’s got great art. I think the ending is kind of a let down but otherwise I highly recommend it.

What If? Peter Parker Became the Punisher: An alternate origin story that does what it says on the tin. Good modern PeterGwen content.

[crobby]

ahhhh okay i dont think i'll slide into dms just yet so in the meantime, could you just tell me about your favorite characters? what draws you to them, what characters you ship them with and why? go wild with it, i just like hearing people talk about stuff they're passionate about ^.^

okokok so i have a Lot of favorite characters but i’m just going to go with my absolute faves! it’s all under the cut since this got Long sdkfsj

first up we’ve got peter parker himself, the man of spiders. the thing that really draws me to peter is the fact that he is so RELATABLE. not in a normal way, where you can truly relate to their life experiences, but in that he’s just a normal asshole of a man! and yet he’s so inherently good that you just can’t help but love him! i love love love peter parker.

i ship a ton of people with him, like johnny, mj, gwen, flash, felicia (oh my god i love felicia), and harry! 

i love johnny and peter because they’re buddies!!! they’re best buds who love each other!! and i love that!!! 

i love peter an mj because they’re SO DEEPLY IN LOVE OOHHHMYGOSH!! i’m an absolute sucker for the “in every universe, i will always love you” thing and mj and peter PROVIDE. theyr’e just. they’re so lovely. i love them. 

peter and flash is great bc enemies to friends to lovers!! yes pls!!!! redemption arcs are DELICIOUS.

peter and gwen are just,,, so wonderful. i love them together because their personalities just mesh!! i love love love gwen stacy and i think she and peter were lovely together while they lasted. i prefer petergwen as more of a past-tense thing tbh. i choose to ignore the fact that gwen is dead, so it’s more of a break up but still best friends type of thing, you know?

peter and felicia!!! AAHHHH!!! i am so in love with felicia hardy, it’s ridiculous. i LOVE his and fel’s back and forth playful romance, and how they have to overcome obstacles of morality to be with one another. im love them.

harry and peter is great because they’re so much delicious angst there,, i’m not normally one for angst, but parksborn gets a pass because YUM

ok on to more characters!!

mj!!! oh, how i love mj. watson, jones, I LOVE HER! she’s such a badass and she’s a wonderful person who has so much going for her!! i love her i love her i love her. she’s like. i would date her.

gwen stacy!!! i LOVE GWEN STACY!! when fran told me i remind her of gwen, i just about lost my marbles. gwen’s brilliant and kind and cares so deeply about the world around her and i’m just!!!! gahh!!!!!

johnny storm. JOHNNY. I LOVE HIM. he’s so lost and he doesn’t know who to be because the person he is for the media is so so different than the person he is for his loved ones. he’s caught in a limbo of facades. i love johnny because he has so much depth to him and he really is just sunlight in human form.

ok so if you’ve been following this blog for more than a day you probably know that I LOVE GWENMJ!!! oh my GOSH i love gwenmj!! they’re my otp for mj and gwen. i love love love both of them with other people, but i love them the most together. they’re mmh theyr’e just so incredible together. mj looks back on her time with gwen and i CRY. they were best friends!!! it seems i love best friends getting together LMAO. it’s just so tragic and beautiful and i’m utterly obsessed with them.

i hope this helped a bit, nonnie! let me know if you want me to talk your ear off some more ksjfskdf

[movedto-jewishbucke]

the amazing spiderman!!

thank you,,, dee,,, I’m gonna include TASM2 in this lmao

favorite male character: Peter Parker!!

favorite female character: Aunt May...

least favorite character: mmm... Flash but like... yeah... idk...

prettiest character: mmm Peter’s dad asdfghjhgfd

funniest character: I think Gwen, Peter, and Harry were all equally as funny

favorite movie: oof... I think TASM

favorite scene: the chimney scene!! also the scene with Harry & Peter skipping rocks!! those are the only scenes I remember tbh but they were good scenes

favorite romantic ship: Parksborn... but also I liked PeterGwen though it was kind of like Yikes(tm) in TASM2

favorite family ship: oooooooooh we see more of Aunt May & Peter so I really do enjoy their relationship but, like, I also love Peter & Ben!!! 

favorite friend ship: probably Peter & Harry before Harry lost his shit

worst ship: um... PeterGwen but like... TASM2 PeterGwen... like watching TASM2 as an adult it’s like... Holy Fuck Peter Stalked Her... Hmm...!

[pop-culturereference]

Here you go @ledurr

Peter/Gwen: I love them in the Amazing Spider-Man movies. However, in the comics, Peter never tells her that he’s Spider-Man and Gwen blames Spider-Man for the death of her father.

Peter/Felicia: I always end up liking them better when they’re just friends. Over the years they’ve developed a deep, meaningful friendship, but when they do the romance thing, it ends up being more about the banter and the thrill than their personal connection.

Peter/MJ: My all-time OTP. They bring out the best in each other. MJ is so patient with Peter and he can be 100% himself with her like he couldn’t with Gwen or Felicia. Peter knows MJ better than anyone and MJ can open up and let her guard down with Peter.

Something people say that really bugs me is “Mary Jane loved Spider-Man, but Gwen loved Peter Parker.” Not true! Gwen couldn’t fully love Peter Parker because she hated Spider-Man, and Peter IS Spider-Man. Peter is who he is BECAUSE he’s Spider-Man. Felicia loved Spider-Man, but not Peter Parker. Now, their relationship is deeper than that, though. MJ is the one that has always understood that Peter and Spider-Man are inseparable.

tldr petermj is my favorite, then petergwen from the amazing spider-man movies, then peterfelicia, then petergwen in the comics. And then petermj from the spider-man trilogy is dead last bc man I did not like it

[watsonmj]

Hey love, I have a question. So Peter Parker has two main love interests, MJ and Gwen Stacy and although I truly do love seeing him and MJ together, how come nobody talks about him and Gwen?

hi !!! i mean as always there are people’s preference with ships—whoever they like more, they’ll probably talk about more etc. but it also adds up to the adaptation! e.g. in the mcu, mj is the main love interest thus people talk about petermj more. 

but honestly a big part has to do with gwen’s death! gwen is peter’s first love, the one who really taught him what love was but mj on the other hand is peter’s true love, the love that grows with him! typically the endgame couple which is probably why petergwen gets less traction

[traincat]

opinions on the new taylor swift album (in terms of spider-man ships) ? 👀👀

YES okay yes I have lots of thoughts. One of my favorite things is when a new Taylor Swift album comes out and I get to decide which songs are what Spider-Man ships. I did a twitter thread about this when the album first came out, which has my initial reactions, but I’ve had time to sit with it now, so let’s dive back in:

the 1: first reading is this is a Peter/Felicia post-breakup. But we were something, don't you think so?/Roaring twenties, tossing pennies in the pool/And if my wishes came true/It would've been you.

(Spectacular Spider-Man #112)

However, I think Taylor Swift’s oeuvre is one especially good for applying to One More Day from Mary Jane’s point of view (New Year’s Day, anyone?) and the 1 doesn’t let us down here.  

I have this dream you're doing cool shit/Having adventures on your own/You meet some woman on the Internet and take her home/We never painted by the numbers, baby/But we were making it count/You know the greatest loves of all time are over now. (ASM #561)

cardigan: My first impression was that this is like the ultimate college years Peter/MJ/Gwen song -- leaning slightly more towards the GwenMJ leg of the love triangle/threesome -- and I have not changed on that front. Sequin smile, black lipstick/Sensual politics/When you are young, they assume you know nothing? A friend to all is a friend to none/Chase two girls, lose the one?? 'Cause I knew you/Stepping on the last train/Marked me like a bloodstain???  Tried to change the ending/Peter losing (G)Wendy?????????????

You drew stars around my scars, but now I’m bleeding/”She saw through the party girl mask I always wore. Saw the frightened, abused kid inside.” (Marvel 1000)

the last great american dynasty: this one’s a little too biographical to work for a Spider-Man ship but I think it could be a good women of Spider-Man song. The maddest woman this town has ever seen etc etc. Alternatively it’s for the version of canon where Doc Ock marries May for her nuclear power plant inheritance and then she turns the tables and poisons him for his criminal empire. good for her.

exile: look, this is a love triangle tragic breakup song, and Spider-Man is the king of both of these things. I’m going to make a call and say that exile, while I think it’s both an excellent PeterFelicia and PeterMJ, leans towards PeterMJ after MJ rejects his first proposal, when they’re seeing other people but everyone keeps trying to get them back together. I can see you starin', honey/Like he's just your understudy/Like you'd get your knuckles bloody for me/Second, third, and hundredth chances/Balancin' on breaking branches/Those eyes add insult to injury.

The dueling narration of 'Cause you never gave a warning sign (I gave so many signs) and I never learned to read your mind (Never learned to read my mind) is a pretty perfect early PeterMJ summary.

my tears ricochet: okay okay okay so my tears ricochet + mad woman are my ideal “Gwen Stacy gets a resurrection revenge narrative ala Bucky Barnes and Jason Todd” song duo. And if I'm on fire/You'll be made of ashes, too.

mirrorball: Taylor Swift released THE definitive Mary Jane Watson song in 2020. We are talking about the feminine art of performance, we are talking about masks, we are talking about trauma baby!!! I want you to know/I'm a mirrorball/I can change everything about me to fit in/You are not like the regulars/The masquerade revelers/Drunk as they watch my shattered edges glisten.

I've never been a natural/All I do is try, try, try (ASM #143)

We are ALSO thinking about Mary Jane’s iconic mirrored mini dress from ASM #59. An entire Mary Jane anthem.

seven: this song CRIES OUT for childhood friends, which Spider-Man is a bit lacking in, what with the entire friend group coming together in college, but in my head it belongs to a version of canon where Gwen and Mary Jane were friends as children and lost touch with each other. alternatively, it’s the Peter/Flash childhood friends song, since they’re as close as we get to childhood friends in canon, and also because these lyrics in conjunction with that make me want to cry: And I've been meaning to tell you/I think your house is haunted/Your dad is always mad and that must be why/And I think you should come live with/Me and we can be pirates/Then you won't have to cry.

Also, “just like a folk song, our love will be passed on” makes me cry thinking about longform storytelling like superhero comics so like that’s fun. A real Spidey fivesome sort of feeling.

august: I’ve been thinking about it, and I think this is a Peter/Betty set during their initial romantic relationship. Your back/Beneath the sun/Wishing I could write my name on it/Will you call when you're back at school?/I remember thinking I had you.

this is me trying: A FLASH THOMPSON SONG. Like, I think “I didn’t know if you’d care if I came back/I have a lot of regrets about that” is a big PeterMJ sentiment during several key points of their relationship, but overall the vibe of this song is a Flash. Probably a Peter/Flash, while we’re at it. 

illicit affairs: okay, in my heart, I want this to be another Peter/Betty, because the point in canon where they’re sleeping together behind Ned’s back is just so sexy of them, and it’s a favorite fictional extramarital affair. However, I also don’t feel like this song is straight enough as its core to be about them. I also feel like “and you want to scream don’t call me kid, don’t call me baby” is a BIG Gwen Stacy mood. So I’m kind of leaning towards an MJ/Gwen affair while PeterGwen is happening. Which would also be very fun of them all. I think at a push we could also make this a Peter/Flash while Flash is seeing Sha Shan, if we wanted to warp canon around to have a good time. What I’m saying is Spider-Man should have a few more affairs in its body of canon. For the song.

mad woman: I mentioned this up with my tears ricochet but we’re going to say AGAIN for the people in the BACK: this is a Gwen Stacy jam. If they were ever to make an extremely good movie about resurrected Gwen on a murderous revenge spree, this song should be playing in it. What do you sing on your drive home?/Do you see my face in the neighbor's lawn?/Does she smile?/Or does she mouth "fuck you forever"?

(Spider-Island: Deadly Foes) Also, not that the Gwen clones get like, full narratives or are allowed to be their own individual characters like the Peter clones (it’s the misogyny) but if they were, mad woman would be such a good Gwen clone song. No one likes a mad woman/You made her like that.

epiphany: this is very rare for me in Taylor Swift’s discography, but I think this is really a Peter solo song. 

Crawling up the beaches now/Sir I think he’s bleeding out (Peter Parker #89)

betty: You have no idea how badly I wanted this to be a Peter/Betty, but it is just not. I think there’s a version of Spider-Man high school canon though where this is a Betty/Liz. 

peace: This album is light on Taylor Swift Spideytorch hits -- previous examples including Love Story and Call It What You Want To, among many others -- but peace is such a Spideytorch. But I'm a fire and I'll keep your brittle heart warm/If your cascade ocean wave blues come/All these people think love's for show/But I would die for you in secret/The devil's in the details/But you got a friend in me/Would it be enough/If I could never give you peace?

(ASM #790) @bipeteparker said that Johnny COULD give Peter peace but they’re dramatic, so it works, and I stand by that, but I also like it with the juxtaposition of their lives -- Johnny being so famous and such a public figure and Peter having eschewed that life by keeping the mask on. 

hoax: and we’re closing the album the same way we started! I think there are various Spider-Man readings you could do, but my big two are PeterFelicia and PeterMJ -- both with the lens of the post-One More Day deal and how that altered both of their relationships with him. 

Your faithless love's the only hoax I believe in (ASM #16HU)

My only one/My kingdom come undone (ASM #545)