#+ an accurate description of most of the characters in this thing 🙃

[simmersofia]

[alicepooryorick]

First off bestie I just like that you fire back long responses I disagree with, so I get to see new perspectives from someone definitely more knowledgeable. Don't worry about jumping the gun.

Thanks for the image description. That's my bad.

I really don't think Barbara has to be regressed to be a better dynamic with Jason. I genuinely think that Oracle helping Jason is a far cooler idea than Batgirl helping. I'm going to describe this wrong, but I do think the dynamic of the two of them experiencing very similar trauma but Barbara moving past it and wanting to help Jason is an interesting dynamic. I'm wrong for saying Jason understands her but I do believe he respects and trusts her over most/all the rest of the family. I think this relationship (in the hands of good authors) could actually be a far more Barbara centered relationship. The Oracle running behind the scenes trying to help Todd both on the field and mentally. Although I might be wrong.

Also... Yeah as much as I enjoy the Batgirl beyond Burnside... It's definitely not great as a continuation of the character.

I definitely don't want Jason teaching Babs shit. Maybe one or two things about like, small things? But I genuinely can't see Babs as anything but the veteran mentor. While I don't agree with baby-girl-ed Jason I don't think he's exactly... Anything close to an experienced hero. Especially compared to Barbara.

Also side note: don't you love how Cass is treated 🙃

The comparison I worded wrong.

Dick/Babs is written in the same way that the Joker made Harley Quinn basically nothing but a sidecharacter in his shadow. Obviously the relationship is healthy. But the writers write Babs into Dick's shadow. Mostly there to support Dick. That's where I made the poorly made comparison.

While I do agree that post-2011 Babs sure is... A character they made decisions with... Most of them bad. I do think if you look at it as litteraly a regressed, younger Barbara (my personal interpretation of Batgirl Beyond Burnside being that it is, quite litteraly, just a modern take on some of her early adventures) I do think we can see some value from this character interpretation if that makes sense. This isn't the adult Barbara we had, it's a younger, less experienced Barbara. And through it we see glimpses of the future, Oracle, Barbara (not ideal way of interpreting a character but when the character in question is this misstreated you might as well go full MatPat)

So, by this logic. While what we see isn't fully accurate to the "real" (Oracle) Barbara, it still shows some of the thought processes and socialization of the real deal. I just realized I don't know what I thought I was responding to with this talk about current babs being younger but I do want to share this questionable take all the same and submit it for discussion.

I guess in ending here, i think Oracle and Jason would be good for eachother. Oracle in a meta sense that she is now the experienced one who's matured and can hold her own as a character from an interest point of view. And Jason from a character point of view where it's established (going with modern bags is "younger" idea) that this is the one member of his family whose opinions he cares about. They'd be able to lift the other up in a story sense.

This is a ramble, I'm sorry I just really like talking and discussing this.

I have a question/thought¿¿¿¿ about Barbara + Kori I feel like they're only love interests Dick, I also feel like the only reason Barbara is always the love interest is cause the writers think she can't be apart of the 'batfamily' if she's not in a relationship with dick, like she can't be apart of the batfamily by herself LIKE BOTH HER AND KORI ARE SO MUCH MORE THAN LOVE INTERESTS WHY TF DONT PEOPLE LIKE TREAT THEM BETTER

#justiceforBarbaraandKoriand'r

#theyarelowkeytogoodforDick

(I suck at explaining 😭)

Babs definitely was a part of the batfam before dating dick, so i don't really see that argument holding up (that she can only be part of the batfam if she's dating him)

Re: regular batfam love interests and the way the writers treat her... think that Babs dating Dick isn't really "because she's in batfam," but trying to pair her up with Jason and then Tim in a video game evidently is definitely just "because she's in batfam" and she's the only female character the writers were interested in (and female characters have to be in relationships w/ male characters)

Babs and Kory have a lot more going on for them than being love interests to Dick, but sadly writers often only focus on that. Like Kory had a very strong friendship with Donna in NTT, Babs had her own team to lead. The issue is that writers often can only see them as love interests and are uninterested in developing allowing them to be equally competent or allowing them to have friends outside their romantic relationship. I know that part of why I liked 90s/2000s Dickbabs is b/c it checked that off very well, babs had her own life outside her relationship and her own friends and they were portrayed as very much equals and dick very seldomly rescued babs (if she was in trouble it was often her helping the birds of prey rescuing her or her rescuing herself).