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slashfuhrer · 15 days ago

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Absolutely great post with all the references

all stereotypes are rooted in some reality (e.g. women being bad drivers). It wouldn’t be so pervasive if it wasn’t somewhat true. Men drive more, and many of them who drive vehicles for a living do it for longer periods of time through harsher conditions, they drive more difficult to manoeuvre vehicles e.g. lorries, buses, trucks etc.

Also, recklessness doesn’t mean that men aren’t skilled drivers. Recklessness is a choice, but driving aptitude and ability generally isn’t. Men are proven to be far more skilled and able drivers. You can argue that they are more antisocial drivers than women or that they don’t make conscientious choices when driving, but that is a different conversation. Women being better rule followers doesn’t mean they’re skilled lol.

So, this is in response to this post, where I explain – thoroughly – how men cause more car crashes and engage in significantly more risky driving behaviors (measure both objectively and subjectively).

I am genuinely amazed, Anon, that you somehow seem to think that men can be the more "antisocial", more "reckless", get into more crashes, and still somehow be a "better" driver than women. However, I actually have even more sources for this topic, so allow me to explain in more detail how men are worse at driving than women.

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all stereotypes are rooted in some reality (e.g. women being bad drivers).

Incorrect. Just because you believe something is true, Anon, doesn't make it true. For example, here are my posts about how women are not worse at mathematics or spatial ability than men, women do not have lower IQs than men, and men and women do not feel attraction in fundamentally different ways.

So, no stereotypes need not be rooted in reality.

It wouldn’t be so pervasive if it wasn’t somewhat true.

I broke this out primarily to inquire if you also believe in the pervasive antisemitic conspiracy theories about blood libel? What about the pervasive stereotype that gay men are pedophiles? The racist, unscientific comparisons between Black people and monkeys?

Are you capable of recognizing that all (any?) of these ideas are baseless and bigoted? (Either way, I suggest doing some reading into the "argumentum ad populum" fallacy.)

Men drive more, and many of them who drive vehicles for a living do it for longer periods of time through harsher conditions, they drive more difficult to manoeuvre vehicles e.g. lorries, buses, trucks etc.

(Some of the following information is repeated from the replies in the original post.)

Riskier behaviors

Previous work has estimated that ~70% of all road accidents are the result of risky behavior (e.g., driving under the influence, distracted driving, speeding, etc.) by the driver(s) [1]. That makes the fact that men are substantially more likely to engage in these risky behaviors – as indicated by sources 1 and 5-9 in the original post – relevant. Within source 9 from the original post, their sources 12-17 confirm men’s greater riskier driving behaviors and 18-27 address men’s riskier mentality surrounding driving.

A bad driver is someone who puts themselves or others at risk on the road, and, clearly, men are substantially more likely to do this. And an additional report by the AAA Foundation for Traffic Safety [2] further indicated that "60% ... Most Dangerous Drivers were males, whereas 57% of the Safe Drivers were females," further supporting this finding.

Driving exposure adjustment

Men have a higher crash rate even when you adjust for their greater driving times, as supported by sources 3 and 9 from the original post. (Within source 9, their sources 8-11 also adjust for amount driven.) Source 3 also demonstrated men had greater fatalities involvement, adjusted for distance traveled, in each vehicle category.

In addition to that, this longitudinal study from Australia [3] shows that men had a higher crash rate than women even after adjusting for driving exposure. In fact, they have a higher crash rate even after further adjusting for drug/alcohol use, risk taking, training and experience, and several other factors.

They were also more likely to be in a crash in dark or wet conditions, at high-speeds, and in single vehicle crashes, again even after adjusting for all of those potential confounding variables. The only crash type women were in at a higher rate was crashes resulting in hospitalization, which can be explained by how car safety features are not designed for women. (Again, see the original post sources 10-11.)

This study from Russia [4] examining serious crashes further confirms these results, finding men were more likely to be involved in crashes even after adjusting for the number of drivers and distance driven. They are also more likely to commit “ aggravated road accidents" and drive under the influence.

This older American study [5] confirms these results again, finding higher crash rates for men than women in both the daytime and nighttime, after adjusting for the amount driven.

In other words, men get into more crashes than women, even after adjusting for the amount they drive, the conditions they drive in, and even the risks they take.

Driving for the job

Now, men make up much more of the professional drivers’ workforce (e.g., truck driving) than women, although I have spoken many times about how this is because men deliberately prevent women from joining male-dominated jobs.

Regardless, the demographic makeup is irrelevant, since when women do become professional truck drivers, they do better than men [6-7].

Male truck drivers are more likely to be "cited for a major violation of rules" and "to have a major unsafe driving violation" [6]. In addition, a 2022 update by the American Transportation Research Institute found "males continue to be more likely than females to have violations, convictions, and crash involvement" [7].

Another study [8] found "male [bus] drivers not only have more accidents but also are more likely to get involved in higher severe accidents." A result which is confirmed in a more recent analysis [9].

So, no, men's higher crash rates are not because they drive trucks or busses for a living. Male truck and bus drivers are also more likely to get into crashes/be unsafe than female truck and bus drivers.

Bonus: traffic tickets

This review article [10] indicates males are more likely to repeat traffic violations. These articles [11-12] also found men receive more traffic tickets/citations than women. As did source 5 in the original post.

Also, recklessness doesn’t mean that men aren’t skilled drivers. Recklessness is a choice, but driving aptitude and ability generally isn’t.

Anon, what exactly do you think makes someone a good driver? If someone is placing themselves and other people at risk, then they are bad at driving.

Now, not engaging in reckless behaviors may not be sufficient to make someone a good driver, but it is absolutely necessary. We are operationalizing our definition of "bad driver" as "gets into a crash and/or engages in high-crash-risk behaviors", which is necessary for us to quantify the data for analysis.

That being said, as shown above, men get into more crashes even when you adjust for their greater propensity towards reckless behaviors. So, no, men are not simply hiding their superior skills under their poor choices.

Men are proven to be far more skilled and able drivers.

No, they aren't. I have, at this point, provided you with 30+ sources explaining how they are not. Your refusal to accept factual information does not make it any less true.

You can argue that they are more antisocial drivers than women or that they don’t make conscientious choices when driving,

Yes, I have provided you with substantial research to that effect.

but that is a different conversation.

Again, it really isn't. Men choose to create dangerous situations for themselves and others on the road. This makes them bad drivers.

If a heavy machinery operator chose to violate safety regulations, you would say they are bad at their job. If a doctor chose to endanger their patients by practicing drunk, you would say they are a bad doctor. If a construction worker or architecture designer ignored building codes, you would say they are bad at their jobs.

It's the same for driving; men choose to ignore the rules and choose to put people at risk. Therefore, they are bad drivers.

Women being better rule followers doesn’t mean they’re skilled lol.

Again, following the rules for driving may not be sufficient for being considered a skilled driver, but it is necessary. Not to mention the fact that, as indicated, adjusting for risk taking did not eliminate the gender gap in crash rates.

Conclusion

Women are better at driving, as per decades of cross national research. Often repeated, misogynistic, stereotypes do not change this.

References under the cut:

McCarty, D., & Kim, H. W. (2024). Risky behaviors and road safety: An exploration of age and gender influences on road accident rates. PLoS one, 19(1), e0296663.

AAA Foundation for Traffic Safety. (2023). 2022 Traffic Safety Culture Index (Technical Report). Washington, D.C.: AAA Foundation for Traffic Safety.

Cullen, P., Möller, H., Woodward, M., Senserrick, T., Boufous, S., Rogers, K., ... & Ivers, R. (2021). Are there sex differences in crash and crash-related injury between men and women? A 13-year cohort study of young drivers in Australia. SSM-population health, 14, 100816.

Belov, M., & Kazun, A. (2024). Beware of His Car: Why Are Men More Dangerous than Women Behind the Wheel?.

Massie, D. L., Green, P. E., & Campbell, K. L. (1997). Crash involvement rates by driver gender and the role of average annual mileage. Accident Analysis & Prevention, 29(5), 675–685. doi:10.1016/s0001-4575(97)00037-7��

Scott, A., Davis-Sramek, B., & Ketchen Jr, D. J. (2024). Men at work… unsafely: Gender differences in compliance with safety regulations in the trucking industry. Production and Operations Management, 10591478241235145.

Markus, A., & Murray, D. (2022). Predicting Truck Crash Involvement: 2022 Update. American Transportation Research Institute.

Feng, S., Li, Z., Ci, Y., & Zhang, G. (2016). Risk factors affecting fatal bus accident severity: Their impact on different types of bus drivers. Accident Analysis & Prevention, 86, 29–39. doi:10.1016/j.aap.2015.09.025

Zhu, T., Qin, D., & Jia, W. (2023). Examining the associations between urban bus drivers’ rule violations and crash frequency using observational data. Accident Analysis & Prevention, 187, 107074.

Kaur, A., Williams, J., Recker, R., Rose, D., Zhu, M., & Yang, J. (2023). Subsequent risky driving behaviors, recidivism and crashes among drivers with a traffic violation: A scoping review. Accident Analysis & Prevention, 192, 107234.

Mohammadzadeh Moghaddam, A., Sadeghi, A., Jalili Qazizadeh, M., Farhad, H., & Barakchi, M. (2018). Investigating the relationship between driver’s ticket frequency and demographic, behavioral, and personal factors: Which drivers commit more offenses? Journal of Transportation Safety & Security, 1–20. doi:10.1080/19439962.2018.1477

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