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queer-full-of-fear-18 · 8 months ago

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love for love’s sake carefully, and beautifully handled mental health. they didn’t sugar coat the depression myungha and yeowoon were experiencing.

a lot of times in bl we see characters going through hardships, but by the magic of love they’re better again or everything gets fixed. external love definitely plays a huge part in healing and being able to get through hard situations more swiftly, but it’s hardly ever the sole solution.

myungha getting a bf didn’t cure him, gaining friends didn’t cure him. he had two guys wrapped around his finger, his grandma was alive yet he still has low self worth. he’s someone that has been depressed for so long, has had deeply ingrained negative beliefs about himself that have kept him from ever being truly happy. he believes that nobody could ever love him, he can’t bother anybody with his problems because he’s a burden.

this is why depressed people isolate, they believe all of the things the depression is telling them and it is incredibly difficult to change that. it can take years to change the way you percieve yourself and the world, i think the buffs were the blockages in myungha’s perception. when yeowoon said “i love you” to him, there was an error message because deep in his soul he believes that as an impossibility. his buffs were because of his attempts to getting close to yeowoon, he saw it as a danger because getting close would mean that he would burden yeowoon.

myungha’s life was so so sad, poor guy was dealt such bad cards. his mom living happily without him as if he never existed served as proof of the negative things he’s been telling himself. realizing that you’re nothing to no one, that you’re hard to love or you’re too much is such a hard pill to swallow. it might not be objectively true, but if your mind believes it, then that’s all it takes to completely break your spirit. myungha kills himself because he sees no reason for his life, his mom abandoned him, his gf broke up with him, and his grandmother is dead. his reason for life is reliant on other people it isn’t an internal reason.

now when he’s in the game, he’s faced with the choice of who he loves more, yeowoon or his grandma. i think that they decide to make him choose between them because he can’t fathom receiving love from two people at once. it’s overwhelming, and terrifying for someone that has had limited quantities of love his whole life. his love for yeowoon is the truest love he’s ever felt besides his grandmother. yeowoon and myungha are equals, share a lot of similar life experiences, yeowoon opens up his heart and is ready to be there for him unconditionally. even when myungha refuses to share what he’s feeling, when he is actively breaking his heart, he is willing to change whatever it takes just to be around him. having someone show you that unconditional love is both incredible and so scary at the same time. that person is seeing you at your most vulnerable, at your worst and still choosing you.

myungha is used to self-abandonment, it’s all he knows. he felt like choosing yeowoon would mean choosing himself, and in turn would mean he is selfish and leaving is grandmother to die. if he chose his grandmother he would stick to his usual self, but yeowoon would possibly go back to how he was in the beginning and die. to him everything seems like a huge risk because he feels the weight of the world on his shoulders. of course in the game that really was the consequence, choose one life over another. but i think this show really did a great job at showing just how impossible choices can be when you’re depressed, how warped your point of view gets. but i couldn’t help to think what would’ve happened if he had chosen himself, maybe that’s what he was supposed to do.

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queer-full-of-fear-18 · 8 months ago

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Something about Myungha giving love so freely to Yeowoon, his own mirror image, and yet being unable to view himself as worthy of love.

Something about Myungha erasing himself from all their lives and Yeowoon still hearing the echoes of his voice because of the imprint we leave on the people we love.

Something about learning that part of loving someone is also receiving love from them and that second chances are worth fighting for.

Something about Love for Love’s Sake that is so raw and honest and also muddled and confusing because that’s what love is.

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queer-full-of-fear-18 · 8 months ago

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Symptoms of a System Error: The Manifestation of Myungha's Depression in Love for Love's Sake

Ok I will almost certainly have more thoughts about this when I go back to rewatch Love for Love’s Sake in the next couple weeks, but I’ve been thinking about the finale for the last couple of hours and I want to get some stuff out of my head. Before I get too far in to this, I want to say that I think most of the ambiguity in the show is brilliantly executed in a way that allows people to take whatever meaning they want to from it without contradicting each other, without stepping on toes, and without having to twist or bend the narrative beyond all recognition to make it make sense.��

So I want to talk about the use of depression in this show, because the way Myungha exists in the world is recognizable enough to me that these moments of choice, and the system errors were extremely legible. That doesn’t mean my take is the correct one (and I honestly don’t think there is one right answer here anyway) but it’s what I got out of it, so with the needless ramble complete, let’s get to it.

Prologue

gif by @dramascene

I connected rather quickly to Myungha as a character from right near the beginning of episode 1 because of how passionate he was about the character of Yeowoon and how much he hoped for a happy ending for that character. As someone who processes a lot of my feelings, and who understands myself better through media consumption, I was quick to appreciate the fact that Myungha recognizes the parts of himself that speak to Yeowoon and to know that because Yeowoon is fictional, he has a chance not to suffer with merely a stroke of a pen. The Author could have chosen from the beginning to give Yeowoon a happy ending, and did not because he believes that there are people for whom bad things will never stop happening. But from the perspective of a fictional story, the Author should consider who he is writing the story for. Myungha connects to Yeowoon, and it sends one hell of a tragic message for how Myungha’s life will end up if even in fiction the people who suffer have no hope of happiness.

Myungha tells the Author that someone like Cha Yeowoon, someone like him [Myungha] with awful lives can still be happy. Looking back on that statement with the knowledge that Myungha kills himself, sends a very clear message, at least for me, of the hope that he was clinging to and finally lost his grip on. The Author asks if Myungha can change the outcome, and thus begins our story.

Debuffs

Now, I don’t know that I will have much more to say here than what @jemmo said in their very brilliant post, beyond the fact I agree with their interpretation of the debuffs. But I am thinking about the debuffs as it relates to mental health and to Myungha’s independence. One of Myungha’s first missions is to befriend Cha Yeowoon, and we see the difficulties associated with doing so when it comes to the Fondness Level meter and the debuffs that happen as a result. I love what Jess said about the dichotomy there: the debuffs mean that every time Myungha gets close to Yeowoon, something bad happens, Myungha uses that as a reason to stay away from Yeowoon to protect him when in fact, being around Myungha and increasing his fondness for him is the only way to really keep Yeowoon safe.

gif by @dramascene

And here again there is something recognizable to me in this dichotomy. Myungha likes Yeowoon, Myungha wants to be friends with Yeowoon, every time something bad might happen to Yeowoon, Myungha is there to intervene. But Myungha is convinced that the potentially negative events that might occur during a debuff are because of him, and so he avoids Yeowoon as much as he possibly can. To me this makes the debuffs a stand in for depression symptoms. Myungha has convinced himself that he is the cause of the bad moments in Yeowoon’s day. Myungha has convinced himself that Yeowoon would be better off if they weren’t friends, because he only makes things worse. And that is not something he can easily shake off, it’s not something he can logic his way out of, that’s the game, that’s just how it is. And so he withdraws until Yeowoon comes to him.

And honestly thinking about it, nothing bad really happens during those debuffs. The light doesn’t shatter, the boys back off on the bus, Yeowoon doesn’t punch Sangwon. Maybe the reason why nothing at all happens is because Myungha intervenes. Maybe if Myungha hadn’t been there, the light would have broken, maybe if Myungha hadn’t been there Yeowoon would have punched Sangwon. But that is not a lens that Myungha is capable of viewing himself through, that is never an option that crosses Myungha’s mind because he is too focused on feeling like the cause of Yeowoon’s problems.

System Errors

I know there is a lot of confusion or at least uncertainty around the system errors. Why are they happening? Where are they coming from? For me, I think the answer is Myungha himself. The first time we get a system error, it’s in Episode 6, what I think is the day after Yeowoon and Myungha have their first kiss and very soon after Yeowoon and Myungha kiss on the rooftop at school. The first error isn’t subtle, but it’s not explicitly stated. Myungha walks in to a room to take a phone call and walks in to the middle of band practice, falling through the world as he tries to remove himself from the situation until he (literally) runs in to Yeowoon. Myungha goes home that night and gets his first moments in the black abyss, and the first explicit mention via pop-up of a system error. I have not gone through (yet) to track every instance of what happens before a system error pop-up occurs from that point on, but I will say moment that was most legible for me in terms of indicating that these system errors were stemming from Myungha himself were when he gets the notification both times that Yeowoon looks directly at him and tells Myungha “I love you.”

gif by @dragonsareawesome123

That moment was a guy punch for me because I was not able to see it any other way except that Myungha is so incapable of believing that people could actually love him that someone telling him directly and sincerely that they love him cannot exist in his world. He literally cannot compute it, and thus an error occurs. Again from the perspective of depression, or trauma, or what have you, this is familiar to me. It is perhaps the most reflective part of Myungha to my own psyche. Neither of us know how to be loved.

Myungha is called out on this repeatedly, he is nice to everyone, he does so much for everyone and refuses to ask for help himself. I’m the same way, I will bend over backwards as much as I can to help the people that I care about, but it is a rare occasion where I can ask for help myself. I’m not sure if this is the case for Myungha, but for me at least a lot of that stems from needing to make myself useful to people in some way so they keep me around. And so I end up feeling like a commodity to the people that I care about and help, and merely tolerated by anyone else that I do not help but that interacts with me any way. Myungha is called out consistently by multiple people, real or NPC about this similar habit. Myungha does not want to be a burden, Myungha only cares about other people’s happiness, Myungha is not happy himself and has maybe never been happy and so he pours everything he can in to lightening the load for others.

He loves Yeowoon, but to be loved by Yeowoon is different. To experience any moments of joy cannot possibly be real. Maybe I am projecting too much on to the character, but it makes complete and total sense to me that Myungha’s worldview would break down upon having someone state wholeheartedly that they want to be a support system for him.

Cruel Choices

gif by @dramascene

With the enmeshment of depression and video game mechanics in mind, I want to talk about the scene at the end of Episode 6. I love this scene so much for a number of reasons:

It turns the game on a head for me as we slip further and further in to a nightmare scenario

It raises the stakes and attempts to get Myungha to make a hard choice

It forces Myungha to think about what is important to him

It’s ultimate purpose and who is posting the mission is ambiguous/uncertain

I’m going to focus on number four. I think it is a perfectly valid read to see this and all video game mechanics as designed by The Author in an effort to help Myungha change Yeowoon’s story in which case this mission feels particularly vindictive and cruel. @lurkingshan posed the question in a conversation we were having about Love for Love’s Sake, where she wondered why the game could not hold two sources of love for Myungha at once. I love that question because it made me realize how differently this show can be read and how important who you choose to read as the entity in control of this game is for what this scene specifically means and I love so many interpretations of it, I love the interpretation that is was simply cruel, I love the interpretation that in retrospect this was the Author being angry at Myungha for dying, I love the reflection from @jemmo that said this felt like a choice between staying rooted in the past (sparing grandma) or choosing a future (sparing Yeowoon)

For me, I think I am leaning heavily in to the pop ups are under Myungha’s subconscious control, his mind, the missions he thinks are important, the problems he thinks he is causing are what is driving the base game. Because of this my base instinct is to lean in to the depression/anxiety/trauma tent where things have been going a little too well for him lately and he has convinced himself that he is due for something bad to happen. I am happy to once again acknowledge that this probably projection, but I know that my own mental illness(es) does not let my peace linger for long. Myungha is spending so much time with Yeowoon, Yeowoon who grounds him when his world is literally falling apart. Yeowoon who cannot contain his smile whenever he is around Myungha, Yeowoon who is downright desperate to bestow love and support upon Myungha, Yeowoon who has accompanied Myungha to the hospital late at night to be there for his boyfriend in a stressful time, and Myungha can’t have that. He loves his grandmother, he loves Yeowoon, they both love him and so obviously means that something bad is going to happen to them.

gif by @25shadesoffebruary

[As an aside I am thinking about what the Author said in the final episode about wanting Myungha to be able to see himself from the outside, and how I took that to mean Yeowoon is supposed to be a reflection of Myungha and a journey to self love, and how Yeowoon told Myungha that something bad always happens to the people around him in relation to this hospital scene]

Secondarily, I do think being confronted with this choice at all allows Myungha to have a moment of reflection, and is clarifying for him to know that both Yeowoon and his grandmother are important people in his life that he doesn’t want to lose. That’s fucking huge, in my opinion at least. And for all this mission was cruel, it was the first time Myungha refused to complete the mission. He was asked to save one, he decided to save both, and the game could have been cruel and taken his grandmother and Yeowoon away for refusing to choose, but it didn’t. They both got to live, and sure Myungha’s mission to make Yeowoon happy was shortened significantly, but I do think fifteen days was enough time to be successful in his mission if the depression and the grief had not gotten to Myungha instead.

Grief

gif by @my-rose-tinted-glasses

Something about grief that my therapist told me once was grieving people love helping others. And I think that is the case of Myungha here just based on the way he throws himself in to helping as many people as he can, especially Yeowoon. He knows Yeowoon is grieving, he knows Yeowoon is struggling, and he can distract himself from his own shit by helping Yeowoon instead. But once Myungha is confronted with the possibility that either one of the people that he loves could die, the penality for failing in his mission to make Yeowoon happy looms over his head like a knife. Just like Myungha considered himself the problem with the debuff, he knows how high of a likelihood it is that Yeowoon would regress, would isolate, would sink into a massive low.

And it would be Myung’s fault (in his mind).

Especially because Yeowoon keeps saying that even thinking about going on dates with Myungha is making him happy but Myungha’s mission isn’t complete. Myungha has started to get low, he is not as engaged in his relationship with Yeowoon, he’s convinced himself he is going to fail, and is thus setting himself up for failure because he decides 15 days is not enough time to find happiness, but it is enough time to break somebody’s heart in preparation for a devastating loss. And maybe, maybe Myungha would have snapped out of it with enough time to spare initially, but any hope of that being the case was shattered the second Yeowoon admitted that he wasn’t happy because Myungha wasn’t relying on him.

Myungha is so used to be self-reliant there is no way for him to break out of that habit in just two weeks. Myungha knew his death would hurt Yeowoon, but the final nail in the coffin for him was learning that his life was hurting Yeowoon too. And he almost got there, he almost did it, he admitted that he didn’t know how to, but he withdrew at the last second. He has spent all this time, all this energy, all this focus in to changing Yeowoon, he does not have the space to do that for himself.

The Choice

gif by @supanuts

The last moment I will really speak to as it relates to my interpretation of this game being controlled by Myungha as a manifestation of his depression is the author’s pen. Considering the fact The Author asked Myungha if he wanted to try again, I do not think if the Author was controlling this game world that he would have had Myungha disappear from it. Because according to the Gaga subs, the change that Myungha writes is that he wants Yeowoon to be happy, and immediately upon finishing that request, Myungha starts to fade.

If we hold these game mechanics as manifestations of Myungha’s depression, which I do, it makes complete and total sense to me that Myungha would fall back in to the pattern of believing that Yeowoon would be happier if Myungha wasn’t there. Yeowoon has a modeling deal now, he has some modicum of fame, he has friends now, he has supports in place that he did not have before, so what need does Yeowoon have of him, when his inability to let people love him is what is now causing Yeowoon to feel sad.

And I think that massive server error at the end where the world is burning and the universe is melting in to the game is a result of Myungha realizing too little, too late that this isn’t what he wanted. But it can’t be undone. The line he says when he is sinking in to the water about how at the last minute before he died, he regretted it. The game, the drowning here are one in the same to me.

And for me there was just something so beautiful and hopeful from Myungha telling The Author that he wants to try again. We started the show with Myungha telling The Author miserable people can be happy, and we end the show with Myungha and Yeowoon finally getting the happy ending they never thought they would have.

gif by @junghaesin

God I loved this show.

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queer-full-of-fear-18 · 8 months ago

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love for love’s sake really said, “get in loser, we’re gonna make the unloved side character HAPPY” and they have all my respect for that

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queer-full-of-fear-18 · 8 months ago

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You know what things in Love for Love's Sake finale make me go crazy?

The fact that Myungha worked three part-time jobs to earn 300k won and he bought back Yewoon's trophies and medals (that his abusive father sold to get more drinks). Myungha thought it would help him reach his goal and make Yeowoon happy, but he didn't ask Yeowoon if that's what he wanted! Which led to Yewoon rejecting his effort and leaving him in tears because he wanted Myungha with him, equal and loving, not working and being unreachable as a parental figure. Talk about completing the side missions but failing the main quest.

The fact that Yeowoon passed by the ice cream store, not buying their meaningful ice cream because Myungha wasn't around.

But when Myungha disappeared, he kept bulk buying and eating rice with curry because that's the dish that Myungha used to make him, even if Yeowoon barely rembered it.

And what about THIS heartbreaking parallel? One trip to the sea to end your life, and the second one is to start a new and happy life.

(and those bubbles in dark water! I thought at first Myungha and Sunbae were discussing phylosophical and life questions in front of an aquarium or just a funky screensaver but no, it's never that simple with this show!)

(i am not going to bring up the parallel between Myungha going to see his mother twice because it recontextualizes everything even more and it'll be too sad)

TALKING ABOUT MORE PARALLELS, Yeowoon happily responding that he's running to find his "blorbo" perfectly circled back to the beginning of the story, of the game. Again, I'm insane about how good and solid writing of this story is.

Let's end on a happy note:

Yeowoon finally untensed his lips :D :D :D

(just kidding but their smiles during kissing are killing me)

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queer-full-of-fear-18 · 8 months ago

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love for love's sake really said 'loving others is not enough. you have to love yourself too' and 'you have to live for yourself as well' and relying on others makes them happy' and 'youre not a burden' and--

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queer-full-of-fear-18 · 8 months ago

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Don't forget Love For Love's Sake nearly had all the romance content cut from it, the director had to fight to keep it from becoming a bromance show.

They spent ONE YEAR searching for Cha Yeonwoon's actor, that's almost unheard of in any sort of media, least of all in the BL genre, development blocks tend to kill any show/film chances of getting made. That dedication got us Cha Joowan.

Taevin went for it, he was looking for a BL role after having his queer storyline scrapped in The Penthouse, so he made a mission to get the role of Tae Myungha.

Love For Love's Sake really is that show.

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queer-full-of-fear-18 · 2 years ago

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This show was presented and generally is light hearted but dam the way they write their chacters is so deeply thought about.

Boss and a babe is insane like I feel like I'm in Cher's shoes rn bc Thoop what the fuck!!!! But I also knows he's greving and he's younger and alone (where are his parents???) And he's clearly hanging around the wrong type of people and his walls are thicker than Cher's...its frustrating I literally feel how Cher felt talking to Tein after that conversation.

From what it looks like it has been a while since her passing, considering they were in highschool and he's finishing University, it's has to have been a least 2 to 3 years? I saw someone say that Thoop doesn't believe Cher loves him like a brother just cuz; he thinks it's because of Tian, so eh says

"You said you loved her" and so will stop caring and loving for Tian bc he "doesn't love Tian" anymore (news flash: not how it works)

Thoop is naive and hurt, but also my guy, you seriously can't expect him not to move on. Also, my first thought was: Hey, if this goes well, Tian will at least be the last girl he loves 🤷🏽‍♀️

Let's hope he's alive to come to that relization next ep bc uh what is this job my guy 😵‍💫

#boss and a babe #boss and a babe the series #guncher #thoop #forcebook #thai bl #boss and a babe ep7 #feels #so many feels #book is such a good actor

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queer-full-of-fear-18 · 2 years ago

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Cher: do you really want to hear me ramble about random nonsense boss?

Gun, who started falling in love with this niche internet nano celebrity after tuning into his ASMR channel and has been calling him every night to hear him ramble about random nonsense for weeks: ...yes.

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queer-full-of-fear-18 · 2 years ago

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*some kind of emo band song playing over some shitty bluetooth speakers in the background while this plays out*

Jebus christ thup chill son C H I L L

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queer-full-of-fear-18 · 2 years ago

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i wonder if it's my unstable hormones but ep 7 is bittersweet to me. the walls cher built around himself. how he's so persistent not to let them crumble in front of anyone resonates with me on an intimate level. his silent cries. just that hushed sadness breaks my heart so much.

oh, cher. i feel you. i relate to you.

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queer-full-of-fear-18 · 2 years ago

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A Boss and a Babe Ep 7 Stray Thoughts

Last week, Cher and Gun began formally seeing each other, though Cher wanted to keep things private for now. Their dynamic is adorable, and everyone at work knows; folks are just keeping quiet to protect them. Unfortunately, life prevents them from committing to their eSports team, and they lost a big match. We left off at a very lovely moment of consent, which felt especially nice from New.

I like that Gun explicitly doesn't like skinship, so it at least explains why he doesn't instinctively reach out and touch Cher when he's unwell and instead clasps his arms behind his back.

Ah yes. This is a Thai BL. That hair better be dry or you will die if you go to sleep.

I'm okay with Sugar Daddy Gun. "You and your friends got beef? Let's grill it on the beach."

Oh, Gun, that was smooth. "Think of it as an inspection," as a way to make the guys feel more at ease is very kind. I like everyone here.

I also like the smirk Zo gave Cher.

I'm enjoying the Three apology scene, but I'm so distracted by the guy in red trunks in the background behind Jack who keeps disappearing and reappearing.

I'm definitely in love with Fluke Pusit. I really like the little bit of facial hair they're letting him keep.

See? Everyone sees what's happening with Cher and Gun, and are all like, "I'm not in that conversation."

Gun may be wealthy, but no one is immune to being dragged into the water for play time.

I think Thoop frustrates me because it's an experience I've been in Cher's position a lot lately in the last three years.

I like how genuinely Gun smiles around Cher and his friends.

I don't know about drinking out of actual glass on the beach. That seems hazardous.

Oh, Nivea product placement. How you never let us down. I'm not surprised that Gun is a nice drunk.

Yes! More Zo-Cher interactions! Zo is the emotional backbone holding this team together.

Once again! Everyone knows! Jack and Aoi told Cher not to broadcast that they went on a trip with the boss. The relationship is professionally inappropriate, but folks see how it's helping both of them, so they're keeping quiet! This is a show about how you can't control how others perceive you, and will just have to accept that people are going to misunderstand and dislike you. It's pretty clear!!

I love Aoi so much.

Book Kasidet is so fun to just observe. He's a special actor, and he and Force are to be reckoned with.

Oh, Gun. You really shouldn't appear on his stream and flirt. People are nosy and messy.

Gun is such a boyfriend. I love it.

Part of what I like about New's style sometimes is the lack of surprises. It felt like Thoop was an addict the entire time, and so it was revealed that he has been gambling. The conversation with Cher also goes exactly where you'd expect: Cher stresses that his sense of duty to Thoop is bigger than his feelings for Tian, and of course Thoop is going to force the money on Cher. Thoop is a gambler, and they don't like feeling like they owe people. He's also going to promise not to do it again, but we know he's going to get into huge trouble.

First Thoop says Cher only helps him out of a duty to his sister, and now he's mad that Cher is with someone else? Is he supposed to just mourn her forever even though she rejected him??

And now Thoop is going to do something especially dangerous.

Oh, I love Jack, too.

These two should not be having a cute conversation at work with those catty girls around.

Looks like they might get found out next week.

This has been a really enjoyable show for me, and I'm excited to talk about it alongside Step By Step next week. I've seen some confused gripes about this show, but it's been working well for me.

#are u in my brain #i literally screamed some of these thoughts as i watched lol

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