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pathb · 2 months

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"You were becoming illithid"

Everything Icould find related to Ansur is in this PDF (text and colours are on different layers): https://jumpshare.com/v/ga9CwLWAi3g7IzqLnc8j I tried to keep it clear but it's messy. Many aspects of the Emperor are intertwined and need to be considered, since a lot of things aren't explicitly stated.

The trial highlights the moral conduct shared by Ansur and Balduran, which is crucial for understanding who Balduran was and speculating on why his "friend and more" attempted to kill him. It’s evident that Balduran's D&D alignment in BG3 differs from previous games, as a bronze dragon would not have approached him if he wasn't inherently "good" in the first place. (#bal_3)

Enthralled judges? The Emperor might have mind-controlled some judges to ensure a steady supply of criminals sentenced to death, allowing him to sustain himself without the risk and effort of hunting. … But Baldur's Gate is a large city with an already corrupt legal system, where death sentences might be pronounced regularly enough that the Emperor doesn’t need to exert any influence. A flashback after the Astral fight at the start of Act 3 shows him hunting what seems to be a random petty thief in the streets, indicating that he likely had to hunt for sustenance in the early days. This clearly contrasts with the WyrmwayAnnouncer: You banished the dishonourable judge and applied lex talionis, the principle of the sentence being proportional to the crime.

Balduran adhered to a strict sense of justice, and this historical precedent perhaps influences his current behaviour, indicating an internal struggle between his former human ideals and his current mind flayer pragmatism (The Emperor: The chains I used to bind my meals - villains and lawbreakers. You see I tried to exercise morality, where I could.) … But considering that The Emperor is a criminal mastermind himself, this selective morality that he justifies as a lesser evil is hypocritical. It serves to mask his true nature and intentions, attempting to present a more palatable image to his new allies, particularly the player.

His actions and justifications reflect a complex blend of utilitarian pragmatism and selective ethical considerations (which are completely erased by his self-serving nature, especially concerning Stelmane and others unnamed people he enthralled), noting his adaptability, manipulative tendencies, and the moral ambiguities he navigates in his quest for survival and power.

A tainted moral code His prolonged control over Duke Stelmane and his leadership of a criminal organization starkly contrast with his claims of moral conduct, highlighting the inherent contradictions in his behavior. (#min_1 Pay attention to its actions, not its words.) Stelmane isn't directly bound to Ansur, but it's difficult to discuss the rebirth of Balduran as a mind flayer and refer to what Ansur meant by "You were becoming illithid" without involving this other character very important to him.

Story of Balduran, Captain of the Wandering Eye ● Claimed Ansur as a guardian and friend. ● Acquired enough gold to found Baldur's Gate. ● Stayed for a while to watch the city grow but grew restless again. ● Heard of treasure in Moonrise and found a colony of mind flayers there who changed him into one of them. ● Served the elder brain known as the Absolute for thirteen and three-quarters years.

His exceptionally strong personality allowed him to remain substantially 'himself' after ceremorphosis, a state he concealed beneath a semblance of perfect servitude, acting as a thrall like any other. ◦ This is why the elder brain was willing to send him out of the colony on scouting missions, one of which was to Baldur's Gate.

He was found by Ansur, who pulled him from the brain's domination and brought him home.

Became a rogue, an autonomous illithid beyond the power of the elder brain that transformed him.

Discouraged Ansur from finding a cure that didn't exist anyway.*

Searched for a new vessel before realizing that returning to his former self would only impose limitations.

Was becoming illithid.

Was on the cusp of greatness beyond his wildest dreams.

Killed Ansur first - in an act of self-preservation.

ABOUT THE CURES I've said it a thousand times and I'll say it again - there is no cure, and that's all right. I'm fine, more than fine, I'm better than I've ever been. Even after he had exhausted all possibility of reversing my condition, he still clung to hope. I tried to convince him of my reality - I was on the cusp of greatness beyond my wildest dreams. He sought to cure me of my sickness, called on every healer he could find, nearly broke his spirit in the attempt. But he failed to understand - I wanted no healing. I was not sick. ** It was some time before I myself grew to accept my own evolution, and to recognise that it was indeed evolution. (#emp_1)

THEORY In the absence of more information, I believe Ansur was the only one seeking a cure, and without a clear timeline, I believe the Emperor had already accepted his "evolution" before escaping the influence of the elder brain.

The Emperor: When I first escaped from the elder brain, I searched for a new vessel.

… Probably for pragmatic reasons. Returning to a humanoid city where mind flayers are seen as dangerous predators (and justifiably so!) would have complicated matters for him.

Now it's said, scouting should require the ability to disguise oneself. Either the colony was already dying, and the brain had to take a risky move by letting some of its thralls, such as 'The Emperor' (true illithid name never given), go outside in their true form… … Or The Emperor had already gained some disguise abilities and accepted his new body quickly, making his initial approach to the player (P1) very questionable.

The Emperor's strategic approaches depending of the player resistance (P1) or acceptance (P2)

The Emperor: When I first escaped from the elder brain,

P1: I too railed against the change. P2: I searched for a new vessel.

P1: But the longer I have inhabited this form, the more it has grown on me. P2: But the longer I inhabited this one, the more it grew on me.

P1: Even if my original body remained intact after I transformed, I would not return to it. Doing so would only impose limitations. P2: I realised that returning to my former self would only impose limitations. Any advantage I could gain by restoring my original appearance, I already had to hand in the form of magic, and that humanoid shape you've come to know. As an illithid, I have far surpassed who I ever was before.

P1: / P2: You, too, should embrace this change.

Note: Balduran's capture and forced transformation into an illithid should have been deeply traumatic. Losing his human form and identity marked a severe rupture in his life, isolating him from everything he once knew. He had to navigate life as an illithid within the colony and pretend to be human to gain Ansur's protection, creating a constant internal conflict.

THEORY Ansur: You were becoming illithid.

The Emperor initially pretended to be more human, concealing his new nature from Ansur with the same manipulation he used against the player (P1). His initial compliance with the search for a cure was more about placating Ansur and navigating his own evolving understanding of his identity than a genuine desire to change.

Note: the Emperor specifies that it was his body he struggled with, not his mind. However, it was his mind that caused Ansur to struggle with him in the first place. LET'S PRETEND… …To be Ansur, "Heart of the Gate".

The disappearance of "your friend and more" was a profound tragedy for you, the pain of his absence was immense and compounded by the uncertainty of his fate. Then one day, you sensed his presence. You sought him out, wanting to see him, but he was either hiding, not ready to reveal what he had become, or perhaps he appeared as young as he was in your memory, speaking to you with a serious tone to prepare you for a terrible truth. Balduran's goal: emphasize his human nature and secure Ansur's trust before revealing his new body. You know that ceremorphosis erases the host. Balduran is dead, and the mind flayer lies… But you felt Balduran's essence; your heart knows it's him. He has never forgotten you, as your love for him never faded. So, you decide to take the risk and bring him back home to Baldur's Gate. Time passes, and you are unable to find a cure. Balduran tries to reassure you that he's fine, but it's not "fine" at all. As a mind flayer, he has specific needs that conflict with your moral code. Eating brains to survive is one of them, and often from people who don't deserve such a fate. Adding to this, it's not only eating but an assimilation*. You see his influence growing, his illithid nature spreading in his thoughts, actions, ambitions, and in the way he sees the world (- its truth, its devastating beauty). You are the protector of the Gate, and you have brought a mind flayer that is corrupting your city. You tried all the cures to bring back Balduran. You realize that your "friend and more" is dead. You have to mourn him a second time and consider mercy-killing him for the good of the city you swore to protect. … But that coward refused to die and even stabbed you first while you gave him everything. Even in death, you remain tormented and trapped in this world.

The Emperor: I can consume his thoughts, his knowledge, his brain. His powers. The process would kill him. Note: It's important to mention that the cures do not specifically refer to a way to bring back Balduran's body, even though it is obviously implied. The central point is not his physical form ("he had exhausted all possibility of reversing my condition" is the closest statement which emphases both). Adding to his abnormal ceremorphosis, which allowed him to remain substantially 'himself', the Emperor did not reach his adult state (normally 20 years) before evading the elder brain. This likely impacted the efficiency of some of his abilities and perhaps the way his mind works**.

… But, he should have anticipated Ansur's actions. Perhaps he was overconfident (one of his weaknesses) in his manipulation abilities, thinking he could convince a lawful good character deeply in love with him to accept his schemes.

Ansur rescued Balduran and was the protector of the Gate. He had NO reason to leave, so why did the Emperor tell him, "Be free, Ansur. Fly" instead of leaving himself? The Emperor doesn't really care for Baldur's Gate, but since he founded the city and knows key political people, hidden places, and the influence of existing factions, it makes it both the most secure and the best starting point for his ambitions.

END_BrainBattle_CombatOver Wyll: Before we met, some hailed me as a saviour, some as a legend. But now, I've seen the face of true heroism: yours.

END_RandomCompanion_Picked, REALLY_WYLL The Emperor: It makes little difference to me. I did what I had to to secure my freedom.

CAMP_DaisyCourseCorrection_AvD Daisy: The task ahead is monumental. But we're all that stands between victory for the Absolute and freedom for all. This is not just about you and I anymore. It has become far bigger than us.

This shift from an altruistic tone to one that admits self-serving actions indicates that he manipulated the player's sense of heroism to gain their cooperation and trust. It exposes a selfish nature that was previously hidden under the guise of a shared noble cause (same when speaking of the prince he subdued: "Sometimes, freedom requires us to make sacrifices.")

** END_IllithidOptions_AD_EmperorWaiting The Emperor: You can make only one move at a time. But the Netherbrain calculates every possible move at once. It knows what you will do, it knows everything you could possibly do. You cannot outmanoeuvre it. To defeat it, you would have to think like an illithid.

Note: it's interesting that the game consider the Emperor betrayed Ansur (#Ans_1) while he only defended himself. To compare, choosing Orpheus at the end is considering a betrayal from the player, despite all the warnings that may have been sent to the Emperor by then. Note2: I doubt someone manage to get until here but I'm interested in other theories, especially about this specific line "you were becoming illithid" and I would be glad to add missing pieces and correct stuff.

#bg3 emperor #bg3 spoilers #bg3 ansur

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pathb · 3 months

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Duke Stelmane and the Emperor

"Belynne became my freedom" … and she is not the only one.

There's a lot to say about the dialogue in the scene where the Emperor is mourning, but I will focus on Belynne here. Note: I gathered everything I could find about her from the dialogues, books/notes, and external sources into a PDF, let me know if I missed or need to modify something (draft version 1): https://jumpshare.com/v/kX5oTLOV3jMHDn5RrBdC Blue: quotes Green: strong evidence Orange: my opinion

Freedom… or control?

The Emperor's pursuit of freedom is deeply intertwined with control and manipulation:

My end is and has always been freedom. Belynne understood this. Belynne became my freedom.

It's tainted by irony and even hypocrisy since she was enthralled to allow him to exert influence over the city through her. The "freedom" he speaks of is actually his ability to control and manipulate her for his own ends. A cruel Tav can express a clear disinterest and shows a lack of respect for the Emperor's past relationship with Belynne: Player: I really don't care what your relationship with her was like. The Emperor: And yet you emulate it so well. It seems he's subtly drawing a parallel between the Tav's current relationship with him and his past one with Belynne, implying that Tav, unknowingly (we cannot know at this moment of the adventure that Stelmane was enthralled), is falling into a similar pattern of reliance and manipulation despite their disruptive stance (or it might even be a subtle threat).

The Descent into Avernus info about Stelmane reveals a situation where her autonomy is destroyed by the Emperor, as he maintains a manipulative grip over her. Aligning his interests with hers during their interactions temporarily restores her mental and physical faculties. _ She got a seizure (expected effect while proceeding the enthrallment) _ Since awakening, her mind has been a battleground between her own psyche and the Emperor's influence. _ She was unable to fully free herself from his control (and in a decade, he could have healed her to restore her free will!) _ During business dealings for the KotS, where their interests align, she regained most of her normal vigour. _ She was visited by the Emperor every ten days, which improved her condition temporarily. By visiting Belynne (#kot_4) and aligning their interests, the Emperor ensured she remained functional enough as a pawn to serve his purposes but reliant on him to maintain her competence. A cyclical dependence that makes it nearly impossible for her to break free… Though Stelmane shows evidence of increasing debility due to some sort of wasting disease, her influence over transfer of contraband in the Gate has only grown as her physical abilities have declined.

The Emperor: It was she who met with the merchants, politicians, patriars. It was she who negotiated deals and signed off on agreements. Wyll: Something's always gnawed at me. At the banquet, Stelmane didn't seem to look at us, but through us. But that second time, her gaze never left me. It was steel, sharp and unyielding. I guess he was able to use his own power through her, thanks to the special bond thrall-master they had.

Allies… or thralls?

Negotiations with prospective clients have proven so difficult that we now believe the Knights exert some sort of influence over their partners beyond the profit motive. The indications are that this influence is psychic rather than magical, but further investigation is required. […] a suspected [REDACTED], has been exerting an undue amount of power over influential actors within the city, including members of the ducal council. This is the proof that there are other 'Stelmane', it's not because we don't cross them during the adventure that they don't exist.

The Emperor: You thought you were my first ally? Far from it. I have long sought the allyship of others - it is the only way to succeed.

Journal of Stelmane Location: hidden room of Hhune Mausoleum. It seems she knew pretty soon that the Emperor were a mind flayer and that she wrote this entry before the downgrade of their relationship.

#bg3 emperor #bg3 stelmane #bg3 analyse #bg3 spoiler

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