neplusultros

[neplusultros]

you can't fucking fool me, ekuoto

i know what's going on here. that's the goddamn scarlet aeonia. malenia's here. this is just the base of the haligtree.

[neplusultros]

CSM 191 spoilers

pointing out something obvious i'm sure a million people have pointed out already, and thinking about what it might mean.

here's last chapter:

COMPUTER. ZOOM. ENHANCE.

and then of course, in 191:

a move with obvious parallels, to be sure:

note the strawberries. so this sequence isn't just incidentally parallel to makima and denji. someone (in-fiction, i mean, beyond fujimoto) made a choice to swap that chocolate cake for a strawberry one. probably to play up the parallels.

but who could do that? who else has the literal exact memories of how everything at makima's apartment went down? the only person left alive from then is denji. who has seen his memories?

well, but she's dead. unless...

hmm, that's not a "yes, this is why we killed nayuta." actually, it's not even a "yes, nayuta's dead"!

the original nayuta of the prophecy is partly a story about what we are willing to sacrifice for family. is fraternal love enough to sacrifice everything else? could you give up any chance at a normal life, your hopes and dreams, for a sibling who cannot reciprocate in the ways you need them to? who is both a danger in herself and for whose sake you are persecuted? yes, of course, the story concludes. why ever do otherwise?

so for a long time i thought maybe chainsaw man part 2 was interested in flipping that. investigating whether that kind of familial love really can be enough to sustain a life, to counterbalance so many lost dreams. and i still think it is! but i think it might also be about how a caretaker's life can warp around a dependent's. and how, sometimes, decisions made "in your own best interest" might be made without your knowledge, and without your consent. we saw what nayuta's brother would do for her. but would she have asked that of him, were she able to? or would she have tried to find a way he could live in peace, even if it meant compromising her own safety?

we have seen what denji would agree to for nayuta's sake over the course of this story.

what information might nayuta have given public safety, if she thought it would keep denji safe? what agreements, with them and fami, might she have made prior to her death? or, at least, her disappearance?

[neplusultros]

vague theory on the MTEFIL demon lords.

spoilers through 83 below. not a theory so much as a collection of random thoughts linking them up with their sources in christian folk tradition (and sometimes the bible) and musing on what that all means.

tl;dr: not even really a theory so much as I'm just collating a lot of information about the demons (and angels) that might not be clear if you're not familiar with certain parts of the western canon. the seven demon lords consist of four definitely fallen angels, two angels with weird statuses (Satan and Lucifer, naturally), and one of God's creations which is not actually an angel at all (Leviathan). The angels likely fell as a result of their own efforts to rebel against heaven, as in Paradise Lost. Support for this is clear in the manga's imagery and the few hints we have about Lucifer and Satan. A lot of this is just basic "western ideas about Satan" stuff but I figure not everyone has that knowledge base to work from.

first off, their names. Beelzebub, Belphegor, and Asmodeus in the Judeo-Christian tradition are all explicitly based on or at least share names with gods or demons or spirits from other religions. Beelzebub (as Ba'al Zevuv) and Belphegor (as Ba'al-Peor) are both named as false gods of the Philistines and Moabites respectively in the Old Testament* and Asmodeus, though only named in nonbiblical sources, is likely derived from the Zoroastrian "Aesma-Daeva". Mammon arguably also belongs with this group; though usually taken just to mean wealth or money, plenty of later writers baselessly asserted that Mammon was a Syrian god, so he probably fits in this category.

Satan is the only actual arguable biblical angel on the list, with "satan" or "the satan" appearing most famously as one of the "sons of God" (generally agreed to be angels) in the book of Job, where his role appears to be to test and prosecute (in a partially legal/courtroom sense) the faithful. "Lucifer" is a name closely identified with angels and Satan because of a particular verse (Isaiah 14:12) that used to translate a particular phrase that way. Because the passage describes the subject of the phrase being cast down by God, the verse is closely linked to the idea of fallen angels, though most modern translations render the phrase as "morning star" and the whole thing is textually about a particular unnamed Babylonian king anyways.

*using catholic terms here because, well, it's a manga about catholicism. probably gonna get some stuff wrong though

Of course, the most famous instance of Satan/Lucifer has very little to do with the Bible, because it's Milton's Paradise Lost! Plenty to say about this later, but for now what's interesting is that Lucifer is what he is called in Heaven, prior to the Fall, as afterwards all the names of the fallen angels (a third of heaven!) are spoken no more. So they are one and the same person: depending on who you ask, a charismatic rebel or self-serving striver, widely regarded as one of western literature's archetypal anti-heroes.

Traditional Christian angelic hierachies list the angels as Seraphim, Cherubim, Thrones, Dominations or Dominions, Virtues, Powers, Principalities, Archangels, and Angels, descending in order of authority. Milton...doesn't really give a shit about any of this, and sets up a situation wherein Archangels are the highest, with Raphael, Michael, and Gabriel described as Archangels (and therefore among the most powerful), same with Lucifer. Cherubs are implied to be a lesser order (at one point Lucifer disguises himself as a "stripling cherub"), which seems to line up with MTEFIL/EkuOto's world, in which the ability of Mr. Priest and Leah to call upon the archangels' powers means they are able to call on the forces closest to god. Similarly, Beelzebub refers to the purified bit of Asmodeus as "cherub," suggesting she's of a lower order than the archangels prior to her fall (and in turn suggests whatever he is at this point, it's not, strictly speaking, an angel).

The real pattern-breaker is Leviathan. Derived from an Ugaritic mythical sea serpent, Leviathan is a tannin, or sea-monster. Tanninim appear several places in the Old Testament, most notably Genesis (where God creates them in the very first chapter), and are often translated into English as "great whales" or "sea creatures" but are in fact not quite 1:1 with any animal. Leviathan's most notable appearance is in Job 39 and 40, where as part of his defense against Job's accusations (the Book of Job is really a courtroom drama), God says, in essence, "you all won't even fight leviathan. wait do you not know leviathan? lmao you don't even know leviathan. leviathan is this CRAZY sea serpent that breathes fire and breaks iron like wood. anyways if you aren't even brave enough to fight leviathan you ABSOLUTELY are not a bad enough dude to question me."

What's most interesting is that this positions Leviathan firmly as one of God's creations! And in fact, when Leviathan references the command God gave her to be fruitful and multiply in the ocean, she is both quoting Genesis directly and giving us a very clear idea of her origin: she was made on the fourth day with the other tanninim and creatures of the water and air. which is to say, she precedes humans!

So we have four lesser demon lords based on other religious traditions, two angels of biblical extraction (but really mostly Miltonian), and one of God's creatures. And actually, the visuals we've given largely line up with that!

Early on, Mr. Priest gives us a glimpse of the demons. It's impressively consistent with what we've seen so far: Asmodeus has her tower of bodies, Mammon's rings show up, Gluttony has the same ink-silhouette-mouth thing going on, Leviathan's child form is visible within her monster form's mouth behind the speech bubble naming her, and Belphegor has the snail imagery!

but also helloooooo look at their fucking halos. Six halos for seven demon lords...because Leviathan doesn't have one because she was never an angel in the first place, just one of God's creations. four of the halos are black, because these are fallen angels, but two of them are white. Why are you white? Were Satan and Lucifer archangels, and therefore incorruptible on some essential ontological level? Have they somehow been re-purified since the fall?

And why is Lucifer depicted with a halo and six wings, exactly like a classical Christian Seraphim?

The Seraphim being the highest order of angels in Christian angelology, nearest to God and eternally singing His praises. They traditionally have six wings, exactly as Lucifer is depicted here.

The final interesting piece of evidence we have about the Seven Demon Lords comes from the end of Beelzebub's fight. He's recalling his final fight with Rosa and her last words to him: "Y'know, I don't wanna dump this on the next generation. But I believe their love will trump your evil. They'll support each other. Help each other. And someday you'll lose to their righteousness." And then Leah drops a sick fucking axe kick on his head and rocks his world.

this doesn't have any relevance to the theory post it's just spiritually healing to look at

And then Leah taunts him ("Time for dessert, Lord of the Flies! Have any room left?!") and it's at that moment, when he's getting his ass kicked, that he has an unexpected and thus far totally unexplained flashback to what's very obviously the seven demon lord's tragic backstory as angels:

These are obviously the seven demon lords, not just from the text and Mammon's rings, but because there's only six of them. Which makes perfect sense! There's only six angels in the group, Leviathan presumably was not a part of whatever the angel stuff was!

Of course, the volume extras already came out and said all of this, to some extent!

"a certain researcher's personal note (2)," file 63

At this point it seems pretty clear to me that Aruma Arima is drawing on Milton's Paradise Lost. Interestingly, early on there's a file (from the same researcher who wrote the above, in fact) debating whether the gates of hell for demon lords (rather than regular demons, who get Leviathan's jaws), which look like Rodin's sculpture "The Gates of Hell," look that way because the gate of hell has a perfect Platonic form which Hell uses and which Rodin approached through genius and mastery, or if demon lords just use it because they think it looks cool. I would not be surprised to eventually get a note asking whether Milton received the truth of Paradise Lost from a divine source or if he somehow just guessed it perfectly.

Anyways, Paradise Lost goes like this: Lucifer is among the first of the archangels and everything is vibing fine in heaven. These halcyon days are disrupted when God calls an all-hands and announces His Son is here now and to him shall bow all knees in Heaven (typical nepo baby shit). Lucifer objects to this, refusing to exalt the Son and seeing himself (and, according to his speeches, other angels) as native-born sons of Heaven who bow to none but God. A third of angels join him, there is epic war, they are cast down to the fiery lake, where they are transformed into devils and their angelic names are stripped from them and replaced with the names of demons. As a result, Satan (the artist formerly known as Lucifer) undertakes to tempt man and cause his fall, leading to the main matter of the poem, the events of the Garden of Eden.

Thus, in Paradise Lost's cosmology, all devils were once angels. And this seems to track with a lot of what we have seen so far of MTEFIL/EkuOto's demons! It suggests the Researcher's note is correct: This is, on some level, an enormous family argument, especially if things track closely enough that Hell's demons are really just a third of what Heaven once was. Lucifer once led a rebellion against god, with the other demon lords as his allies; whatever ambitious or noble goals they once had ("Here at least / We shall be free . . . Here we may reign secure, and in my choyce / To reign is worth ambition though in Hell: / Better to reign in Hell, then serve in Heav’n.") they seem to have fallen to fractious squabbling, with Lucifer now absent and Satan seeming to have only limited and minimal authority, if any, with respect to the others.

A few questions this brief review against the classic Western sources raises:

What's up with Satan and Lucifer? Are they indeed somehow split from the same identity, or will this version have them as distinct people? If so, does the fact that Lucifer led the rebellion but is now absent serve as basically the explanation for why the Seven Demon Lords are now so disorganized?

What's up with Satan's wife? Not something he generally has. Is it the notably absent Lilith (who comes from Jewish and Christian folk traditions and not any particular religious text or Paradise Lost)?

Where is Jesus? I mean I don't usually see an anime with Catholic elements and expect there to be any reference to Jesus ever. But Milton's Paradise Lost is very much a Christian text; it is About Jesus as much as it is about anything else. And if the Son of God will not be appearing in this shonen (which, y'know, fair), why did Lucifer rebel?

[neplusultros]

another ekuoto reread note: the end of part 5 literally fulfills satan's invitation from the very first chapter

imuri created the gallery of evil, and marco's actions and the revelation of her true nature serve to drive a wedge between her and everyone on the team but priest. so she is at last visiting satan in gehenna with all who hold her dear!

[neplusultros]

rereading from the start a bit and VERY annoyed i missed this in the first draft of this post:

as i wrote above, the distinction between the knight of faith and the other levels of existence for kierkegaard can be summed up in some ways by the idea that while infinite resignation means reconciling yourself to the truth that the things you desire, though they may constitute the bedrock of your very soul and identity, are unattainable for you in this world, in this life, and that faith by contrast remains steadfast that it will achieve its ends in this world, in this life. dante literally textually here is telling priest that while he may be resigned to his unending suffering, if he is to find true meaning and faith he needs to believe in happiness in this life.

aruma arima & masuku fukayama, make the exorcist fall in love // soren kierkegaard, fear and trembling

thinking a lot about dante and vergil and imuri and kierkegaard's figure of the knight of infinite faith. kierkegaard sees the world as divided into three parts, and uses the idea of an unattainable love (as that of a commoner for a princess) as his example.

the vast majority of people, slaves to aesthetic existence, would say "we shall never be together in this world and in this life, so i shall forget this love and love another."

the next stage of existence is the stage of infinity, and the movement of infinity is to say "though we shall never be together in this world and in this life, i shall never relinquish my love." and through their unending sorrow for their love, they see the world more clearly and more beautifully, even if more painfully.

dante is at the stage of infinity. he loves vergil, and yet is also keenly aware that under the circumstances, the two of them can never be happy together. he has infinitely resigned himself to the impossibility of their love, but through that become stronger and surer of himself, more determined and less capable of wavering. he is wagering, with his suicide, that vergil's faith is weaker than his; that some part of him, even now, believes he and dante might still end up together. for if vergil too were infinitely resigned, dante's death could not mean anything to him. he would already have accepted the impossibility of their love, and whatever course that drove him to would be unchanged by dante's death. but dante believes some part of vergil is probably still hoping they can be together and that that is what is driving his actions, and that by killing himself he might shake vergil from his path.

the last and rarest type of person is the knight of faith. the knight of faith says, "i know that we cannot be together, and that it is impossible. nonetheless, i am certain that in this world, and in this life, we shall be together, because faith makes all things possible." it is not merely enough to hope for the impossible, for even a child can do that. faith requires the sure knowledge of failure, a total understanding of the impossibility of your desires, and coexisting equally with that, a pure and perfect certainty that your prayers will be answered.

one gets no points for guessing the protagonist will be important, but if i had to guess who MTEFIL's knight of faith was...

[neplusultros]

it's so funny that in the first chapter asmodeus is like "ah, you (dante) might be able to resist my powers as a grown and trained man, but this boy cannot because he has never known the touch of a woman!" and like, maybe that played into it. but the bigger issue is just that dante's gay. you're not gonna turn that man wild with lust for a succubus because he is in fact gay.

complicating this is the fact that asmodeus is also gay. wlw on mlm violence.

[neplusultros]

thinking about act 5 of mtefil and honesty, and how badly mr. priest's belief in truth as something that can save you is going to be tested.

mr. priest frames belphegor's failure as one of honesty. this relates to both his failure to be forthright with onesta (a name which, of course, literally means honesty) and his further failure to face and reckon with his pain honestly, preferring instead to wallow in oblivion and self-destruction.

and priest is totally right about the second part. belphegor agrees. he needs to reckon with his pain and move on to honor luka's memory.

but priest is totally 100% wrong about the first part, lmao.

that's stupid. it's, genuinely, childish. belphegor is a demon. it is hard to imagine a situation in which he tells his human wife "hey btw i'm a demon and the fetus growing inside you is also gonna be a demon" and that doesn't end in horrendous tragedy.

like, was asmodeus's failure a failure to be honest with sarah? i find that hard to believe! her problems were that they lived in a world that was homophobic and also asmodeus is a demon. are leviathan's difficulties in being loved because she is not honest about herself? no! her problem is that the reality of her life as a demon lord makes it impossible for her to be loved in the way she wants.

there is no point at which honesty could have saved luka. it could, at most, have spared everyone this tragedy. belphegor is right that the most likely outcome of honesty would be that luka would simply have never been born. truth can't save a love born out of false pretenses.

belphegor is dishonest with onesta and it leads to tragedy. but we have on the other hand the example of dante and vergil, who are totally honest with each other. even now they talk freely and openly about their love for each other and what it means. it doesn't help shit! they are enemies!

love, MTEFIL has repeatedly emphasized, is not enough. love alone cannot overcome the forces arrayed against it. but truth is not enough either. the idea that any of these problems could be solved through honesty alone is laughable.

not that priest and imuri have to worry about that anymore, at least. the choice for honesty was made for them. because marco got tired of lies, and wanted truth.

well, everyone's got the truth now, i guess. have fun with it!

[neplusultros]

asayoshiden feeling terrifyingly real lately

[neplusultros]

congratulations to fumiko mifune fans we have NEVER stopped winning

[neplusultros]

i appreciate that part of what the dialogue does here is establish a clearer dynamic between the war and octopus components of the chapter title. this is necessary because asayo//shiden...maybe real...

[neplusultros]

oooh my god csm 188 spoilers under the jump

for half a second i was like "huh it's interesting this implies the octopus devil is human like the horsemen" yeah OF COURSE HE IS LOL. we fear octopi in part BECAUSE we believe in their potential for non-human intelligence. of course he's taking a form like ours! fuck!

from the OCTOPUS DEVIL LMAO

[neplusultros]

aruma arima & masuku fukayama, make the exorcist fall in love // soren kierkegaard, fear and trembling

thinking a lot about dante and vergil and imuri and kierkegaard's figure of the knight of infinite faith. kierkegaard sees the world as divided into three parts, and uses the idea of an unattainable love (as that of a commoner for a princess) as his example.

the vast majority of people, slaves to aesthetic existence, would say "we shall never be together in this world and in this life, so i shall forget this love and love another."

the next stage of existence is the stage of infinity, and the movement of infinity is to say "though we shall never be together in this world and in this life, i shall never relinquish my love." and through their unending sorrow for their love, they see the world more clearly and more beautifully, even if more painfully.

dante is at the stage of infinity. he loves vergil, and yet is also keenly aware that under the circumstances, the two of them can never be happy together. he has infinitely resigned himself to the impossibility of their love, but through that become stronger and surer of himself, more determined and less capable of wavering. he is wagering, with his suicide, that vergil's faith is weaker than his; that some part of him, even now, believes he and dante might still end up together. for if vergil too were infinitely resigned, dante's death could not mean anything to him. he would already have accepted the impossibility of their love, and whatever course that drove him to would be unchanged by dante's death. but dante believes some part of vergil is probably still hoping they can be together and that that is what is driving his actions, and that by killing himself he might shake vergil from his path.

the last and rarest type of person is the knight of faith. the knight of faith says, "i know that we cannot be together, and that it is impossible. nonetheless, i am certain that in this world, and in this life, we shall be together, because faith makes all things possible." it is not merely enough to hope for the impossible, for even a child can do that. faith requires the sure knowledge of failure, a total understanding of the impossibility of your desires, and coexisting equally with that, a pure and perfect certainty that your prayers will be answered.

one gets no points for guessing the protagonist will be important, but if i had to guess who MTEFIL's knight of faith was...

[neplusultros]

hang on. lucy's three boar thiren minions are named after the three little pigs.

obviously the antagonist in the fable of the three little pigs is the wolf. so far the only wolf in the game is von lycaon and all signs suggest he is a werewolf in particular, to be contrasted against hugo vlad's vampire.

but there's another ambiguously canine thiren in the game.

and he's positioned as a right-hand man to lucius, who took out pompey and who the sons of calydon are decently likely to come into conflict with in the long run.

lucius also already has other henchmen who are explicitly positioned as counterparts to other sons of calydon characters (pulchra and burnice, bellum and lighter).

lucy agent story featuring her and the three little pigs against the big bad wolf when, hoyo. he already exists as an enemy mob, even!

[neplusultros]

applying some classic critical frameworks to zzz

[neplusultros]

dealing with stress via self-harm (relic farming and tracing out a unit in hsr)

[neplusultros]

lmao they really said "sunday is the best little boy in the world but he isn't best little boy in the world ENOUGH...piano lessons upon ye"

[neplusultros]

feels extremely insightful, as a non-watcher, that arc*ne is ending and all the reactions are from fujos and not himes. sorry about your season 2, ladies.