neiviele

[neiviele]

I'm sorry but this is what it feels like whenever anti-endos say that endogenic systems and traumagenic systems have nothing in common and should never be together

[neiviele]

One is rooted in science, and as such has credible backing that says that yes, these experiences are very possible, whereas the other is rooted in religion and folklore, something with little to no backing whatsoever. Sure, it can't be guaranteed, but one is much more verifiable than the other is.

That depends on the spirituality and religion. Some spiritualities are fairly abstract and don't have much to do with the physical world, while others are more grounded. And some spiritualities also have science proving or disproving their claims - for example the experiences mediums have are known to be psychologically possible, meditation has been shown to have health benefits, kundalini actually does affect the body, etc. so it's not neccesarily true that there's no backing to these experiences. It may not be as literal as their doctrines always state, but it is there.

There's also the issue of what could happen if spiritual beliefs and psychological experiences; it can lead to people writing off very real, verifiable psychological issues as non-existent due to the constant combining of spaces, and on the other end, treating spirituality as absolute fact with no evidence.

That already happens on a systemic level even without merging the two. For example, some fundamentalist Christians will treat their spirituality as facts that everyone should obey, and some people will use mainstream spirituality to deny their problems (like how some people identify as empaths when they might have a personality disorder instead) so this seems more like an issue with society or certain types of people, and not necessarily plurals merging spirituality with psychology.

Not to mention, spirituality and psychology, while connected in some ways, are still very different things that function very differently, and as such, should be treated differently. They aren't nearly as similar as you might think they are.

Yes, some people may have some vaguely similar experiences to those with a disorder they don't have, but that doesn't by any means make their experiences equal. They present and function very differently, and one is just simply more severe than the other, to the point that acting as though they should be put in the same category is very very damaging.

Hmm... I get the feeling we're thinking about two slightly different areas of psychology when you say that. When it comes to endogenics, we're more likely to be talking about mainstream or general psychology, not neccesarily the psychology related to disorders.

That being said, if people are examining them as if they are similar, its usually because the disorder and the non-disorder have a lot in common, enough to where they can be compared in psychological studies.

And the same can be said here, those who claim to have experiences with being plural outside of CDDs may have some similarities in some ways, but is still very different in function, presentation, and severity, because they do not have the disorder, and treating them as equal experiences to the point that those without CDDs are kept in the same spaces and treated just the same as those with CDDs, it can be very harmful for all involved, having people with these issues belittle their own issues and not get the proper help, and cause those without them to overestimate theirs, and attempt to get treatment or support they don't need, which can harm them in the long run. These experiences are not at all to the same degree, and they should be separated as such, and should use different terms to reflect that.

Yes, they are different, but they still share enough to where many with DID/OSDD and many without have decided they could get along in a (plural) community together. Historically endogenic and traumagenic systems have shared the same spaces, and they wouldn't have found each other if they didn't share more similarities than differences.

I know that may seem farfetched but it can and does happen. People watering down the meaning of terms used for certain disabilities/disorders. (eg. people misusing the terms hyperfixation and special interest, resulting in many non-autistic/ADHD to falsely equate their own experiences to autistic/ADHD people, and harming both themselves and others in the process. The madness of the 2010s was sure something huh)

I agree that is a problem, though would it be the same kind of issue with endogenics? When endogenics use terms like system (I think system is one of the only terms shared between the two communities) even if non-traumagenic, we're still referring to a group of identities. It's still being used in relatively appropriate ways, and I'm not sure if singlets could distort it like they could for other medical terms. But also, system is used in internal family systems therapy, so that train may have already left the station.

Endos constantly treating spiritual experiences and psychological experiences as the same thing, or even just throwing them into the same category is not only misinformation, but an actively dangerous idea to promote.

Spirituality should NOT be treated the same as psychology, and they do that all the damn time.

-Xero

[neiviele]

I'm talking about the internal, subjective experiences. Sorry, that wasn't too clear, but I'm talking about the things a person experiences psychologically, inside.

We can do brain scans, MRIs, surveys and more, but we can't peek under the hood and see conclusively what's going on. No one can take a test that goes "yes, you have 4 headmates, one fictive, and he identifies as a pokemon" or a test that says "yes, you're of psychological origin". Especially when studies on endogenic systems are in their infancy - a headmate who says they're a fictive because of psychological processes is not too different from a headmate who says they're a fictive because of spiritual reasons.

Additionally, when it comes to what a person believes about themselves, it's not always set firmly in one camp or another. Some people start off believing their headmates are spiritual and then go off into the psychological camp. Some start out thinking they're psychological and then realize they're spiritual. In some of these cases the experience didn't change significantly, only the way they explain it. And some use both to explain how they function, and don't see any conflict between them.

Lastly, it's just hard to separate the two without deeming one as more real or valid than the other. A lot of the time when people are separating them (for reasons other than the space not being set up for spirituality or psychology) it's because they view one as more real than the other. Since a lot of experiences are shared between the two groups, there just isn't a need to separate them too deeply.

Endos constantly treating spiritual experiences and psychological experiences as the same thing, or even just throwing them into the same category is not only misinformation, but an actively dangerous idea to promote.

Spirituality should NOT be treated the same as psychology, and they do that all the damn time.

-Xero

[neiviele]

"why do endos act so scared of anti endos it's not like we're oppressing you"

have you perhaps considered the fact that harrassment people face for being open about themselves, makes people scared? and seeing harrassment of other people who share their identity, also makes them scared?

if you're anti endo, then it's quite likely that you're not familiar enough with nontraumagenic spaces to see that harrassment. it happens on various platforms, and it does indeed make people scared. it makes people want to unite against anti endos.

people also don't always publicly show that they are being harassed. sometimes the only people who know are people they trust. and if you go around saying that no anti endo harasses people, then why would a nontraumagenic person trust you enough to tell you that they are being harassed?

also, i am NOT saying that is an anti endo exclusive issue. unfortunately, harrassment is very common within the system community for a variety of reasons.

i just implore people to consider: if you don't know anyone who would harrass people, then it is very likely that either you just aren't friends with someone who would harrass someone else. or, that they know that you would disapprove of such a thing and hide what they do from you.

however, you don't personally know everyone who shares a syscourse label with you. and there are various reasons why a victim of harrassment would not be public about it, or share that information with you specifically. please stop doubting victims of harrassment.

(and just to clarify: for the last two paragraphs, i am aiming it towards every syscourse side. including pro endos, explicitly)

[neiviele]

Spirituality isn't the exact same, but they're similar enough to be lumped into the same category because both have to do with subjective experiences. We can't prove someone's spirituality just as we can't prove their psychological experiences.

Endos constantly treating spiritual experiences and psychological experiences as the same thing, or even just throwing them into the same category is not only misinformation, but an actively dangerous idea to promote.

Spirituality should NOT be treated the same as psychology, and they do that all the damn time.

-Xero

[neiviele]

Please don't. Suicide isn't a solution, at least not one you can retract if you regret it. Even if life is painful and terrible now, it can get better. And even if it doesn't, live for the little moments that bring you joy and happiness, and the hope that things can always change for the better. Nothing sucks forever.

There are plenty of reasons to live, and even if life sucks a majority of the time the little moments are what make it worth it. But you can't experience any of it if you're gone.

this is the end of dia, guys. tbh it wasn’t all that fun in life

at around 9pm i’m gonna delete my account. my family is not going to be home tonight

bye y’all. been fun. too bad people have been saying “aughhhh faking suicide grrrr” so this probably won’t even be taken seriously by anyone, but tbh i don’t care really

*x’s forms in my eyes with my tongue out*

[neiviele]

i feel like i missed stuff. what's going on with this fraud stuff? is this about that bracket poll? (i *did* use my four blogs to vote for you uh oh)

Yup, it was the brackets!

Basically, Dia made 70+ accounts to vote against me and make sure I'd lose the bracket. Then was publicly attacking me and accusing me of cheating because apparently someone else made even more accounts and voted for me.

That someone else, if the last anon is to be believed, did it because they hated me and thought it would be funny for me to be accused of cheating. So you had two people who hated me stuck in a voter fraud war, one voting for me and one voting against me.

And the end result of this is that Dia had a meltdown at my supposed cheating, the brackets that were meant to be fun are going on indefinite hiatus because it's taken a toll on their mental health, several sycoursers were triggered by Dia's posts, the anon who made all the blogs that voted for me feels guilty over everything that happened because of what they did... and I'm sitting here making memes about it. 🤷‍♀️

After all of that, the one person that both Dia and the anon intended to hurt with their voting fraud war ended up being the least affected by it. The whole situation is just so comically ridiculous that I was having a laugh over it.

This was my initial reaction to Dia's original post. I decided not to post it to Dia with their mental state the way it was yesterday, so it just sat in my drafts. But I'll post a screenshot here so everyone can see my first thoughts to learning the news:

So yeah, everyone else ended up hurt or upset by all of this drama, while I'm unscathed. I'm fine, and think the incident is hilarious. Not the mental breakdowns or people getting triggered...

But the hypocrisy of someone committing fraud to make me lose and complaining about people committing fraud to make me win... only for it turn out that the person who committed the fraud in favor of me was doing it to stir up drama and make me get blamed for cheating... and both of these people who hated me fought with and tried to outfraud the other, each making it harder for the other person to get the result they wanted, forcing them to make even more accounts...

You couldn't write this stuff! 🤣

[neiviele]

at this point its far beyond whether or not i "shouldve" made a post about dia. dia has said terrible things to me and accused me of things that are not my fucking fault. you wanna show empathy for the mentally ill? im feeling pretty fucking mentally ill after being intentionally triggered by dia, show some fucking empathy for that instead of hand-holding a grown person who cant take respond to criticism without blaming everyone else and waxing poetic about how zain-syscourse saying "death wishes are bad" is the reason they bashed their head in. fuck's sake. does it make sense yet why im upset now?? im also fucking triggered, but only dia matters! my bad!

see how much dia improves when you keep excusing this type of shit. ive been told this is a pattern, right? why is it still being fucking excused? did i miss the syscourse memo where the world revolves around dia? again, my bad! apparantly it takes having a public breakdown to get a shred of understanding in this hellhole, so here! im triggered! i fucking hate this whole situation, i hate the way youve all handled it, i hate the lack of accountability for POOR DIA, and i hate that IM being blamed by dia for the stupid shit theyre doing to themself. since when was i the one in control of their free will?

this is fucking baffling. fucking BAFFLING to me. how can all of you be so fucking blind to the wider impact of the situation. dia's actions (specifically towards ME) have greatly outweighed anyone else's mistakes in this mess COMBINED. like fuck.

"oh zain dont trigger dia!" meanwhile dia is doing their absolute oscar worthy best to trigger me. in extremely graphic and dark ways. "i hope you see me on the news after i get killed over syscourse" is a real quote dia said to me. but no, im the one who should tiptoe and not trigger dia. god forbid i be triggered by something like that being said to me. god for fucking bid.

[neiviele]

You're not in the wrong. Dia does this every once in a while and usually people block it or ignore it, but it's not fair to people who aren't aware, are new to the tag, or just aren't prepared for threats and bait.

At the same time it is having a mental health issue, and I don't know if it can change its behavior in it's current state. I also don't know if there's anything we can do from where we are, other than maybe flagging offending posts and blocking it?

But after the episode, it should at the very least apologize for its actions.

Again, your feelings towards the situation are completely valid. You're definitely not in the wrong for being triggered by the whole situation- what Dia's doing isn't right, but I don't know if there's anything we can do from here.

at this point its far beyond whether or not i "shouldve" made a post about dia. dia has said terrible things to me and accused me of things that are not my fucking fault. you wanna show empathy for the mentally ill? im feeling pretty fucking mentally ill after being intentionally triggered by dia, show some fucking empathy for that instead of hand-holding a grown person who cant take respond to criticism without blaming everyone else and waxing poetic about how zain-syscourse saying "death wishes are bad" is the reason they bashed their head in. fuck's sake. does it make sense yet why im upset now?? im also fucking triggered, but only dia matters! my bad!

see how much dia improves when you keep excusing this type of shit. ive been told this is a pattern, right? why is it still being fucking excused? did i miss the syscourse memo where the world revolves around dia? again, my bad! apparantly it takes having a public breakdown to get a shred of understanding in this hellhole, so here! im triggered! i fucking hate this whole situation, i hate the way youve all handled it, i hate the lack of accountability for POOR DIA, and i hate that IM being blamed by dia for the stupid shit theyre doing to themself. since when was i the one in control of their free will?

this is fucking baffling. fucking BAFFLING to me. how can all of you be so fucking blind to the wider impact of the situation. dia's actions (specifically towards ME) have greatly outweighed anyone else's mistakes in this mess COMBINED. like fuck.

"oh zain dont trigger dia!" meanwhile dia is doing their absolute oscar worthy best to trigger me. in extremely graphic and dark ways. "i hope you see me on the news after i get killed over syscourse" is a real quote dia said to me. but no, im the one who should tiptoe and not trigger dia. god forbid i be triggered by something like that being said to me. god for fucking bid.

[neiviele]

No matter how they acted, their suicide would still matter.

Nobody said it wouldn't?

Somebody's thoughts on how much other people matter is still a part of their mental health. If they didn't care about the blog or the people they were harassing, then they still had a horrible mental health.

No? You can not care about a group of people and be in great mental health. For example, some people don't care about racists and actively troll them. Some people despise child abusers and will harass and mock them. It's not a sign of poor health automatically, it just shows that you don't view the person or group of people as good, or as equal to you.

If they deleted their blog, I'd think that's a great way for them to get away from syscourse. I think that would be better for them.

I agree. Problem is, we now have a person who is mimicking them, if it's not system-facts themselves. Nobody would have even started speculating if these asks weren't persistent and coming from (what seems to be) the same person.

If it does not help them to talk to you, they do not need to. They are not required to make another account. They are not required to send any asks. They do not need to make a post. Because the only reason you want one is to satiate your curiosity.

They're not required to, you're right. But with the appearance of asks that seem to be coming from them, if not from them outright, I would think that if they're alive and anywhere near syscourse, they would want to clear their name.

And it's not really about curiosity, but safety. If hypothetically, a potentially dangerous person was hanging around the community (proven by their behavior) I would hope most people would be a little interested in what was going on. Especially since this person doesn't seem to be leaving.

Do they still deserve basic respect as a living person? Also yes. Talking shit about somebody clearly in a bad place isn't going to do them any favors.

I'm not talking shit, just stating the facts of what they did, some of which were dangerous things. Respect doesn't mean ignoring what they've done in the past, or how it was harmful.

They can't make a post apologizing if they're dead. And they'll never apologize if they never get proper help.

Again, there is evidence to suggest they're not dead, and that they're not changing their ways. And if they are dead, then there is someone arguably copying system-facts to spit on their grave and make other syscoursers antsy, which we can't allow either.

'Why does it matter if system-facts is dead or not?'

Because they're a dangerous person? Let's not forget they tried to pretend to be another system fully knowing that people might go after them for the takes they had, and pretended it was just their host being in denial. Let's not forget they also claimed they would pay people $1000 if they had proof of created systems, which is at best a time waster and at worst a scam. Why would they tell people they seemed to not care about at all that they were suicidal and killing themselves, especially knowing they weren't changing their commitment?

The only way I can even believe they did anything is if this was a mental health issue, and they suddenly realized what they did and couldn't live with themselves. But that seems unlikely, seeing as how the same anons in the same format and wording are going around. (After all, even if you held the same beliefs as system-facts, why would you sound/try to sound the exact same?)

This is the internet after all, where people can say and do anything. I wouldn't agree with speculating on any random syscourser, but system-facts came out of the blue and started spouting misinformation and creating confusion. I don't think its wrong to be suspicious about someone who was active for less than a week.

Also, I don't think it's bad to speculate if the person has a history of lying and may not be genuine. Do you remember the YouTube drama with Jaystation a while back? How his girlfriend died in a car crash? It would have made sense to let it go... but since he was already a shady person, people looked into it and realized he was lying. It's not wrong to be suspicious of someone, if they have a history of misleading others.

Nobody's speculating because they want to devalue suicide. They're speculating because 1). people deserve to know the truth and not feel guilty that simply disagreeing with system-facts pushed them to suicide, 2). so that if there is an anon fanatically trying to copy system-facts even after death we can tell them to cut that out and keep them away from our blogs and 3). people deserve to know so they can avoid them if possible and not deal with the stress this situation has caused.

[neiviele]

mental health is not an excuse to escape accountability for harming others. posting triggering and extreme threats to tumblr and wishing death upon all who dare to hold you accountable is a bad thing to do, and saying "but im having a mental breakdown!!" does not make it okay.

in fact, pointing out that youre having a mental breakdown shows that youre cognizant enough to understand that youre doing something wrong and fuelled by emotions, and that you need to take a step back.

i know everyone wants to be empathetic, but at a certain point it stops being empathy and starts being excuses for someone else's shitty behavior. accountability can be held with empathy, but empathy without holding accountability is just excusing the behavior.

[neiviele]

"I'm bored, I wonder what's going on in syscourse toda-"

[neiviele]

It doesn't matter whether or not they faked their death because they were extremely mentally ill either way.

It does matter. Being mentally ill doesn't automatically absolve one of harmful actions, like faking one's death or impersonating another.

Mentally okay people don't do those things. Either way, they still needed help.

You don't necessarily have to be mentally ill to mess with people online... you just have to not care about the people you're messing with. Regardless, if they are mentally ill the point still stands that they don't get a free pass to hurt others. Them needing help doesn't negate hurtful actions they did, nor does it prevent them for atoning for it in the future.

Somebody being dangerously mentally ill does not excuse a suicide.

I never said that it "excuses a suicide". I was saying that them being dangerous (not dangerously mentally ill, just dangerous since you can be dangerous without neccesarily being mentally ill and vice versa) is a reason to question it, when faced with conflicting evidence they may be alive. Being mentally ill doesn't excuse any bad deeds they may have done or nullify any reputation (good or bad) they may have acquired.

Adding to this, if they are still alive, it means they can still recover.

That's true, but if they are alive and who we suspect they are, then they haven't changed a bit. Or, if they have, then they should probably come around, identify themselves and/or show they're changing. Either way, people deserve to know if they're alive and/or take any action for their own safety if needed.

'Why does it matter if system-facts is dead or not?'

Because they're a dangerous person? Let's not forget they tried to pretend to be another system fully knowing that people might go after them for the takes they had, and pretended it was just their host being in denial. Let's not forget they also claimed they would pay people $1000 if they had proof of created systems, which is at best a time waster and at worst a scam. Why would they tell people they seemed to not care about at all that they were suicidal and killing themselves, especially knowing they weren't changing their commitment?

The only way I can even believe they did anything is if this was a mental health issue, and they suddenly realized what they did and couldn't live with themselves. But that seems unlikely, seeing as how the same anons in the same format and wording are going around. (After all, even if you held the same beliefs as system-facts, why would you sound/try to sound the exact same?)

This is the internet after all, where people can say and do anything. I wouldn't agree with speculating on any random syscourser, but system-facts came out of the blue and started spouting misinformation and creating confusion. I don't think its wrong to be suspicious about someone who was active for less than a week.

Also, I don't think it's bad to speculate if the person has a history of lying and may not be genuine. Do you remember the YouTube drama with Jaystation a while back? How his girlfriend died in a car crash? It would have made sense to let it go... but since he was already a shady person, people looked into it and realized he was lying. It's not wrong to be suspicious of someone, if they have a history of misleading others.

Nobody's speculating because they want to devalue suicide. They're speculating because 1). people deserve to know the truth and not feel guilty that simply disagreeing with system-facts pushed them to suicide, 2). so that if there is an anon fanatically trying to copy system-facts even after death we can tell them to cut that out and keep them away from our blogs and 3). people deserve to know so they can avoid them if possible and not deal with the stress this situation has caused.

[neiviele]

'Why does it matter if system-facts is dead or not?'

Because they're a dangerous person? Let's not forget they tried to pretend to be another system fully knowing that people might go after them for the takes they had, and pretended it was just their host being in denial. Let's not forget they also claimed they would pay people $1000 if they had proof of created systems, which is at best a time waster and at worst a scam. Why would they tell people they seemed to not care about at all that they were suicidal and killing themselves, especially knowing they weren't changing their commitment?

The only way I can even believe they did anything is if this was a mental health issue, and they suddenly realized what they did and couldn't live with themselves. But that seems unlikely, seeing as how the same anons in the same format and wording are going around. (After all, even if you held the same beliefs as system-facts, why would you sound/try to sound the exact same?)

This is the internet after all, where people can say and do anything. I wouldn't agree with speculating on any random syscourser, but system-facts came out of the blue and started spouting misinformation and creating confusion. I don't think its wrong to be suspicious about someone who was active for less than a week.

Also, I don't think it's bad to speculate if the person has a history of lying and may not be genuine. Do you remember the YouTube drama with Jaystation a while back? How his girlfriend died in a car crash? It would have made sense to let it go... but since he was already a shady person, people looked into it and realized he was lying. It's not wrong to be suspicious of someone, if they have a history of misleading others.

Nobody's speculating because they want to devalue suicide. They're speculating because 1). people deserve to know the truth and not feel guilty that simply disagreeing with system-facts pushed them to suicide, 2). so that if there is an anon fanatically trying to copy system-facts even after death we can tell them to cut that out and keep them away from our blogs and 3). people deserve to know so they can avoid them if possible and not deal with the stress this situation has caused.

[neiviele]

Crazy how you describe things about yourself and then claim it’s others doing them. You need to stop projecting.

Also I can say confidently that I am not the one who ran that blog. In fact, I’m the host who had to close it down. Alex, the one who managed the blog, is a dipshit who lets people behind the screen affect his mental health. That’s why I shut down the blog.

It’s honestly comical how you say something like “what science proves that?” In response to like. The most common fact about systems. Then cite pseudoscience bs that has very little to do with the topic at hand, and is just straight up not true. Here’s an actual fact. Tulpas, willogenics, and TransPlural all have two things in common. 1. They’re a bunch of fakers who think it���d be fun to be plural. And 2. They’re the reason systems are stuck with the stigmas they have. They’re the reason people are getting fakeclaimed by their own therapists. It’s dickheads like you who think they need to be special who are the problem.

I would say I’m sorry for the rant but I’m not (and I’m usually super opposed to any kind of confrontation.) You need to hear this. You are the biggest problem plaguing the system community. You are WORSE than Astro. If you truly care about this community, you’ll delete your account PERMANENTLY.

It’s honestly comical how you say something like “what science proves that?” In response to like. The most common fact about systems.

If it's such a "common fact", then it should be super easy to find a source for it.

Why are you so incapable of answering such a simple question? Which I will repeat from last time:

The real problem with citing "common fact" is that it's an appeal to the masses. Just because a lot of people believe something is true doesn't mean that it's backed by science. Especially when those people aren't doctors themselves and don't have any understanding of what they speak.

Then cite pseudoscience bs

I cited Varieties of Tulpa Experiences. This was in a book published by Oxford University Press, one of the most reputable academic sources you can find. This study has been cited 30 times on Researchgate.

There is also an active neurological study into the brains of tulpamancers. This is being conducted by Stanford University. You can see the AMA with doctors conducting the study here. The doctors estimated that Stanford University invested $50,000 into this study, not including the pay of the doctors themselves.

The idea that Stanford is investing tens of thousands of dollar into pseudoscience is silly. Especially when your only reason for calling it peudoscience is just that you don't like it.

They’re the reason systems are stuck with the stigmas they have. They’re the reason people are getting fakeclaimed by their own therapists. It’s dickheads like you who think they need to be special who are the problem.

Sure, hun...

There's really no point in this conversation, is there? You are just too belligerently stupid to actually learn anything.

You've already shown yourself incapable of accepting that "endogenic" isn't what you thought it was, even when the literal coiner of the word has argued with you on it.

So I could explain how there has always been resistance to the idea of dissociation in the medical field. I could point to how Allen Francis, who was head of the DSM-IV taskforce, wanted to remove DID from the DSM-IV but wasn't able to because he didn't have evidence against its existence.

I could point to the Memory Wars of the 90s and how the False Memory Syndrome Foundation, a group founded by accused child molesters to defend other accused child molesters, turned an entire generation against DID systems and victims of CSA in general. (Fun fact, the daughter of the founders of the FMSF was the psychologist who coined the term "DARVO.")

I could describe how a lot of the fearmongering over so-called fakers originated from doctors who, in response to the memory wars, were afraid of malpractice suits from people who were convinced the doctors caused them to develop false memories, and were looking for a way to excuse the alleged "false positives" that would absolve doctors of liability.

I could explain all of this recent history that gave rise to the environment of some psychiatrists not believing systems and point out how utterly ridiculous it is to blame a niche group that largely isn't even seeking treatment.

But I worry that this would be wasted energy on you because you REFUSE to LEARN ANYTHING.

You want to pretend to be an expert without having to put in the effort of actually absorbing new information.

It's easier to just use a marginalized community as people to blame your problems on, the same way conservatives will blame the fact that they can't get a job on a nebulous army of immigrants or TERFs will blame sexism on trans women. You are all cut from the same cloth and there's no point in trying to get you to absorb basic facts because you refuse to.

[neiviele]

I’m writing this post as an apology. And I don’t expect to be forgiven. But we need to take accountability.

Many people in syscourse have received anti created system asks in the past week or so. I am saddened to say I know who the culprit behind it is. One of our headmates, Lotus. She was behind almost all of it.

Lotus is mentally quite young. For her safety, I won’t say how young. But she is the same age as we were bodily when we went through a very tough time. This time caused an intense amount of paranoia for all of us. Mainly the idea that our friends don’t actually like us, and that people are constantly trying to mock us. Unfortunately, a mix of Lotus’s young age and the paranoia caused her to lash out.

I don’t say this to excuse what she did. There is no excuse. But I just want to share as much as we can without compromising our safety, in hope that at the very least, people understand. On one paw what she did was awful, but on the other, she’s a scared kid who’s paranoid that everyone is making fun of her and stealing her space. There’s some nuance there.

I don’t think I can truly express how sorry I am for everything she’s done. And I don’t expect forgiveness from anyone. I just ask for understanding, and a second chance. Me and Auklet are working with her to try and help alleviate these issues.

Thank you for your time, and hopefully understanding. I hope you can give us a second chance. I can promise we will do better.

Following this message, we as a collective will take a break from interacting with syscourse.

-Sandstorm

[neiviele]

The talks of the sander sides fandom actually makes me think of how normalized sysmeds are, they really spread into really any sort of crevice they can with no sort of push back due to how singlets don’t know ANYTHING about plurality, so they end up just going along with them cus they are loud and use words like ableist and augments by assertion and how endos “actually harm actual systems”.

I feel bad looking back because I used to be really loudly plural in this server for reality shifting as a polygenic (NOT EVEN FULLY ENDO) system. And one day this other system joined and than very loudly called me a faker and just was generally terrible to me because of my beliefs, And I reflexfully left the server. (I wish looking back I stayed and defended myself a bit more, though at the time I wasn’t as confident in myself as I was than) But looking back I’m just like… you believe you can SHIFT TO DIFFERENT REALITIES, and people having multiple people in their head without truama is a step to far??? Really??? Like, you believe in realities where THE LAWS OF PHYSICS are different but yeah endos are a step too far.

Just hate how they pop up soo much, it really doesn’t feel like you can be safe ANYWHERE unless it’s explicitly stated to be endo safe.

It's awful how you were treated!

Also, isn't there kind of a plural-adjacent thing in reality shifting circles where some of them report entering their desired reality and staying, while something else pilots their body?

I mean, that seems if not explicitly plural, at least incredibly similar!

One could also argue even that if reality shifting worked, that would provide a basis for gateway systems with headmates from other worlds just "shifting" into ours.

It's just... a very weird place for reality shifters to draw the line.

But to the point, yeah. Sysmeds definitely do this, and it's why we need to be vigilant. Why we need to be out and talking about our experiences wherever we are. Because they will try to worm their way into those space if we don't.

There's nothing wrong with doing something that's right for you though. Don't feel guilty about taking care of your own mental health first.