idolcourse

[idolcourse]

Putting posts about endogenics in the osddid tags is contributing to the whole thing of endogenicness being too prevalent in the osddid tags, by the way.

You saw a post from an endogenic in the osddid tags? The best thing you can do for yourself and the community who uses those tags is to block, move on, and not add another post about endogenics to the tags.

Every frustration you feel about seeing an endogenic in the disorder tags is the same way many others feel about your post on endogenics. (God forbid they make a post about you posting about endogenics, then we have two posts for the one endogenics post!)

[idolcourse]

Curiosity poll today. Read all the options!

[idolcourse]

A comment from 2016 about viewing CDDs as "disordered" versions of plurality. I found this comment pleasantly relatable and really nice as a DID system, myself. That's my personal experience, though. Any CDD systems want to share their own thoughts?

(I'm not going to post the link with respect to this person's privacy but, for transparency's sake, this comment was found within a tulpa community.)

(Image ID is under the read more!)

[ID: "In any case, I do have a few notes I want to add. The first is on this comment:

Well, what makes DID a disorder isn't the multiple consciousnesses- it's the amnesia and derealization. Take these away, and you have a state of being that is not inherently disordered.

[Censored user's name.]

I was part of spreading this misconception, so I apologize for that. The truth is, it's not that simple. Saying DID is 'disordered plurality' is like saying 'war is scary'. It's technically true, but it downplays the scope of what goes on so much. Sadly, it took me uncovering the hidden traumagenic side of my system to get me to read DID systems' accounts in-depth and see that.

It doesn't stop at amnesia and derealization. That can be part of it, yes, but it's far from the whole. There's the trauma, whose effects will linger even if you get rid of the amnesia and derealization, which many DID systems have said is the worst part of the disorder. There's the confusion about who you are. There's the fear of being found out and discriminated against, no matter how functional you are. There's paranoia about whether you're making it all up, and frustration at being denied your own reality.

Every system's experience with DID/OSDD is unique, but... to borrow from what a member of a DID system posted elsewhere. Think of it this way. People are shaped by what memories they have, yes? Now imagine that you were born from traumatic memories, from a desperate means of surviving. You're thrown into a head with a bunch of others carrying trauma in this way, and then a few who don't know of that trauma consciously and carry on trying to live a 'normal' life. You have no context for what's going on, and even if everyone does realize what's going on, it's a mess of denial, people having conflicting desires and sabotaging each other directly or indirectly, being shoved down and denied over and over, and on top of that, some are already struggling with containing the trauma that started all this in the first place. The distrust, frustration, resent, anxiety between everyone, it doesn't go away overnight. It doesn't go away when you're diagnosed, and it certainly doesn't go away when someone tells you that the state of being that's caused you so many issues doesn't have to be a disorder. Especially when it comes off as, 'If you'd just appreciated your system more, it'd be fine! Look, look at how happy our non-traumatized and having-gone-through-entirely-different-experiences group is!'

With all that in mind, I can't really blame people for not wanting anything to do with plurality ever again. Some come to value being multiple, even with all the shit that went on. Others find they can't erase the past, or always truly 'put it behind you'. It's a wide array of experiences, as was said before.

It's sort of like... coming from a dysfunctional, even abusive physical family, and seeing all the other kids talking about how excited they are for Winter Break. And if you talk about how your family's been through the shitter, you get reminded that 'but not all families are like that! I'm so happy in mine!' Or told, 'But can't you still appreciate having a family in the first place?' Or get looked at sideways and asked why you aren't doing more to bring your family closer together. It's a slap in the face, even if it isn't meant to be that way. I don't agree with the abject hostility I've seen many clinical systems exhibit towards non-clinical systems--including a well-meaning but misguided yours truly--but sadly, I've come to understand where it comes from.

This comment took a turn for the darker, but I do feel it was something that needed to be said.

Anyway. Be careful, too, of using examples from across the spectrum to prove that other parts of a spectrum exist. If I were to claim that the color 'X' existed, collecting green objects wouldn't be sufficient to prove that 'X' exists. It would be sufficient to prove that color exists, and since 'X' is hypothetically a color, that 'X' could thus potentially exist. You would need to collect objects of color 'X' to show that 'X' itself exists. Which, well, I think the fiction writer study and Nimoy's autobiography do well enough, in any case."

END ID]

[idolcourse]

remember to stay kind today. there's people on the other side of the screen with a life, feelings, and potentially trauma!

stay kind <3

[idolcourse]

Also, adding on — I don't care how much a doctor studied. End of the day, they do not live in MY body!

Yea, okay, a doctor knows a lot about science and medical shit, but they do not live in this body every single day, yknow!

You in fact do not know yourself better than medical professionals. We see alof of posts saying how "i know my brain better than medical professionals" no. You don't, they are called professionals for the reason that they have studied and gotten degrees in specific fields. - Riley

[idolcourse]

Terms, from a syscourse perspective

A very long ramble

We're taking this to a new post, starting fresh, and going more in depth. The original post is off course and confusing, and I've seen a few tags confused by the uptick in polls, so this is for them as well.

SO

We're not talking about which is liked by more people, we're talking about which term hurts people less. We're talking about people who are genuinely offended by the term plural because of the history that many prefer to deny happened.

Welcome outside of your bubble.

There is a very nasty history behind all these terms, and the type of people who identify with them.

Some plural systems, to this very day, proudly use the term empowered, despite the fact that empowered multiples were a literal DID hate group. Like an actual organized one, with multiple websites and political activism. Many still deny the trauma basis of DID.

It was the fight for the word "multiple" that sparked plural, an anti psych alternative, focused on personhood and autonomy of their system in a community that largely boycotted the diagnosis and treatment of MPD/DID at that time. There were groups that demonized anyone who identified with the DID label. There were sites about what failures we were as systems.

Endogenic isn't just the alternative for natural multiples, but empowered ones, too. Plural is far more synonymous with endogenic than CDD.

"System" is the current hot topic. Endogenic systems don't have a right to the word, they're not "real systems," just like vickies wrote about the fight over "real multiples".

Some plurals are scared to use system

History repeating itself, over and over.

And all of these words hurt.

I think we should encourage the use of system for endogenic systems, but that's just me. That is a positive step toward an inclusive word that everyone is happy with. I'm finding that I have a lot more words for my disordered experience that system isn't really something I feel a claim over. If you call me plural, knowing I have DID, you're going to hurt me.

Looks like many are back to liking multiple again, so we can look forward to round two.

But which words hurt the most people?

We are discussing two words specifically.

Plural

and

System

We're not talking about alternatives, the conversation was, "plural is safer than system as a blanket term, less people identify with system, plurality is something we all share," and I said, "no, system is safer than plural as a blanket term, plural is seen as offensive to many CDD systems, the priority of my blog. The vast majority do NOT relate to being plural or plurality, system is what more people relate to and are less bothered by."

The why is because of history and genuine offense, whether you like it or not.

You say that no one complains, but if you had said this the other way around, "systemhood is something we all share," would anyone have been like, "uhm, ackshually, if you call me a system I'm going to cry." What would those polls have looked like? We get a glimpse in the polls now.

So what are the numbers? It's still early, but there's really only two parts of the poll that really matter. Everyone wants more options, but I'm really only talking about the options for uncomfortable.

Plural vs system.

"Not medical" vs "medical"

Pro endo vs anti endo

Words are the root of syscourse, are they not? How many antis say, "if endos just didn't call themselves systems"?

Based on the numbers, system is the safer term to hurt fewer people. Endogenic systems mind system less than CDD systems mind plural. The complaints you're going to get would be more along the lines of, "endos aren't systems," rather than, "hey, careful, that can be offensive."

Are we finally saying the fight over "system" is over and antis won, plural is better now? Well, then, I don't know that lumping anti endos under plural is going to help the syscourse divide at all. Remember a couple months ago when antis forgot that they didn't invent plural? The big war over pluralpunk? And how much everyone tried to correct them that plural didn't belong to CDDs? Because it IS so synonymous with endogenic systems?

Start at the top of the post, reread, the fight starts again. Don't put antis, mostly CDD systems angry at endogenics, under the plural umbrella. I know we're not prioritizing their comfort, but it doesn't just hurt antis, but pro endo CDD systems, too. Our history is important.

And going to be honest, my memory is not that great. I'm going to forget my friend's preferred terms and I'm going to offend people. I would rather offend them with system. Less chance, less hurt. System is the most popular, across the board. I believe it's lost its synonymity with CDD.

I would REALLY love to hear opinions on this from all sides.

[idolcourse]

A kind reminder that the ISSTD says that DID is not rare :)

[idolcourse]

just a heads up to syscoursers im pretty sure sysmedsaresexist has some sort of harassment group chat with sophie and other big pro endo blogs. i dont interact with pro endos much, i tend to work within correcting misinfo inside of the anti endo community, but i made 1 post interacting with SAS and instantly got swarmed in my asks and on my positive "thank you followers" post by a bunch of pro endos i thought i had blocked.

just speculation on the group chat thing, but theyre probably all communicating considering how it took maybe 10 minutes of me interacting with 1 pro endo for all the big ones to attack me. this is tumblr and none of us are that big comparatively, i know news doesnt travel that fast unless yall tipping each other off on who to bother.

anyway my blocklist is a few blogs longer now, and im no longer going to respond to any pro endos. they will be blocked on sight.

[idolcourse]

"S-yscourse blog" but I don't interact with anyone first, and also we just pop up every blue moon

[idolcourse]

The ISSTD is supportive of person-based language, as well as all other types of language a system refers to themselves as, as long as it doesn’t get in the way of system accountability.

This is why they lean towards parts based language in what they write, as people based language strays more frequently into a lack of system accountability than parts based does.

(Also because yes, ableism, there is some there, as there is in all medical discussions. I think it’s fair and valid to say that plurality has been something demonized a lot in medical spheres, but I think genuinely that parts-versus-people language is becoming far less of an issue in medical spaces, and that this is more on individual medical professionals and less on the structure of the medical world itself).

[idolcourse]

So it looks like my post about systems really struck a chord (no pun intended) with some people. I guess I didn't anticipate the level of backlash I would receive. But hey, that's syscourse for you.

Some argued that I didn't provide any sort of proof or citations for my claims. That's why I'll be listing all of my sources right here.

That one documentary on YouTube about systems (seriously though, if you haven't seen it, you should check it out).

My therapist, who's been helping me navigate my own plurality journey.

My dog's daily observations of our neighbors' gardens—he seems to think they might be endogenic.

The voices in my head, they told me so too.

Anyway, it's important to always do your own research and draw your own conclusions. But personally, I believe that there's more to this whole debate than meets the eye. Just because something isn't widely accepted or understood, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Remember that.

[idolcourse]

Everyone! Calling all systems and plurals and all the wonderful in-betweens!

Poll time

Assuming you haven't had a chance to clarify your preferred terms,

[idolcourse]

People need to be given a chance to grow and change.

Yes, even that person. Yes, even though they did that. Yes, no matter how angry you are about it.

People need to be given the chance to grow — but what that looks like is up to them. You are not the arbiter of their growth.

If you do not want to give them a space with you to grow in, that is your choice; respect your boundaries as you deserve. But at the same time, acknowledge that people can change, and grow, when given the chance.

Looking at someone and saying, “I have a boundary, and while you may change, I’m not comfortable around you,” is perfectly valid.

Looking at someone and saying, “You will never be capable of change, so I’m not comfortable around you,” is not.

[idolcourse]

Honestly I would love to learn more about spiritual plurality and plural experiences in other cultures. If anyone has any resources to read or experiences, please feel free to send them.

[idolcourse]

Hi <3

It's me. Your local Terrifying Endo-Neutral Mod. Which clearly means I'm a disgusting bigot according to some voices in syscourse. Against which side? Idk pick one.

I've discussed before, briefly, why I use the endo-neutral label. I could go into all of the reasons someone may not wish to take a label for themselves, why I personally think the labeling system is stupid as fuck, etc.

Instead, I'm going to get into the main reason why fear mongering to one particular group about "hidden endos taking over their community" is unhelpful.

To the people pushing it, pretty much all they're saying is "yeah idk your coworker might be a tulpamancer or smth lmao", but to the targeted audience.... that's not what they're going to hear.

The people you're talking to are firmly convinced that endos either don't exist and are faking it or that they're "real" systems who are in denial about trauma and being encouraged by a community that's really bad about accidentally dismissing trauma symptoms.

They're not going to hear "endos are existing near me". They're going to hear "the community that's working to deny the existence of my trauma is spreading their ideology and making it harder for me and people like me to get help".

And I get that that's the point lol. I get that it's a message designed specifically to harm people who think that way. But it's not fucking helping anybody. It's leaning into the same fear thats making anti-endos so hostile.

The more people spread messages like that, the more of a threat they become. The more of a threat they become, the more justified any retaliation against the endo community becomes in the minds of people who are already afraid of losing resources or being invalidated by the horrifically ableist culture at large. You're not Just hurting the people you want to. Every goddamn time the pot is stirred, EVERYONE gets hurt.

Are people going to listen to this? Probably not. Am I going to scream into the void about it anyway? Yep. Makes me feel better lol. I literally just want people to be kind to one another, whether it's a lost cause or not.

[idolcourse]

CRRRRACKS KNUCKLES. it's fucking time. wanted to make this blog for a while, and now i can reblog syscourse and talk about shit that i don't want to flood our poor followers on our main!

[idolcourse]

Hi! Welcome to a blog generally created for certain headmates who don't want to clog up our main blog with syscourse shit.

Who are we?

You can call us the Solar System, collective pronouns being They/Them. Do not use parts language for us — call us either alters or headmates! We are an adult, 19 years old specifically. We are also queer, disabled, and neurodivergent. We are a traumagenic and have a CDD, so all posts will be with that in mind.

Do keep in mind that we will likely be fairly inactive, because not everyone in the system wants to be part of syscourse, and we will only log onto this blog if we are sure we are in a healthy mindset to participate in syscourse.

Who posts on this blog?

Important note that not everyone in our system will post on this blog, as the good majority of us don't want anything to do with system discourse. This list is subject to change.

— Berry : Pronouns are She/Her & They/Them

— Neptune : Pronouns are She/Her

— Rose : Pronouns are She/Her