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Friendly reminder that people (and well written characters) are more than one thing.
Aaron has some homophobic beliefs; “if you’re gay you shouldn’t be proud of/broadcast it” being the biggest one that appears to me in canon, but probably others as well. AND he stands up for and supports Nicky. His feelings towards Andrew don’t change when he finds out he is gay. BOTH these things are true and exist at the same time.
Nicky sexually assaulted Neil, and has issues respecting other people’s boundaries. AND he deeply cares about Neil’s happiness and wellbeing as well as all of his friends and family. BOTH these things are true and exist at the same time.
Andrew takes his promises and deals of protection extremely seriously. He respects people’s sexual boundaries to a fault due to his history of abuse. AND he seems to feel as if once someone is under his protection he has a degree of ownership over them. (slashing Kevin’s chest/choking him, “don’t touch my things”, always being in control of what the cousins do/where they go.) He physically assaults multiple characters on multiple occasions. BOTH these things are true and exist at the same time.
Kevin is arrogant, single minded to the point of insensitivity, and dismissive of others he deems unworthy. AND he tells Neil to save himself and run, knowing it will cost him the season, which could probably lead to him going back to the Moriyamas. BOTH these things are true and exist at the same time.
Neil is a cut throat badass man who does whatever needs to be done to achieve his goals while accepting there may be collateral damage to others. AND he enjoys and craves moments of softness with his friends and lover and wants to protect them. BOTH these things are true and exist at the same time.
Even Riko, he was a horrifically abusive and cruel person who hurt a lot of people. AND he was a victim of abuse. BOTH these things are true and exist at the same time.
If you keep looking, you will find more things that may seem to be contradictions. People aren’t black and white, good or bad. Complexity and nuance are GOOD. Actions can’t cancel each other out, no amount of good deeds can erase the bad you’ve done, and vice versa.
Try expanding your thinking! As Walt Whitman said, “Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes.” Things get harder to define and to put into boxes, but they also get infinitely more interesting and useful!
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the way you can kinda see andrew saying ‘dont worry kitten’ but not ‘yay’
This is the only thing I can think of whenever I read this scene
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interested to see … i always pictured neil’s burn scar & bullet scar on the back of his shoulder though it could easily be on his front too
#it appears i am in the majority#i never picture scars on neil’s back#tho that is illogical really#aftg survey#aftg meta
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Something about these two…
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5️⃣ Laughter Is Infectious (The Best Medicine Remix) by moonix (4k)
Five times the Foxes tried to make Andrew laugh, and one time someone succeeded without even trying.
5️⃣ A Charmed Life by KatherineF (6k)
5 times one of the Foxes sees Andrew smile, and the 1 time all of them do. Or, Andrew Minyard is a huge softie for Neil Josten and he can't hide it.
5️⃣ boyfriend privileges by mostly_maudlin (4k)
Andrew knows he treats Neil different. So why is it so bothersome that everyone else seems to know it, too? Five times Neil gets boyfriend privileges, and one time it doesn't piss Andrew off.
5️⃣ It Went Like This by eldrvarya (11k)
5 foxes that worry Andrew isn't good enough for Neil (and find out he is) and one that knew all along.
5️⃣ Not Nothing by TheRainbowElectric (23k)
Five times Neil tells someone that he and Andrew aren’t dating, and one time Andrew uses his words to set the record straight.
5️⃣ louder than bombs (i break) by mitigates (6k)
A 5+1 of Andrew learning Neil’s five spots he liked to be touched in bed and the one spot he needed to be touched outside of bed.
5️⃣ growing pains by nightquills, Ominous (11k)
Stuart knows it’s perfectly normal for teenagers to have crushes. That’s why he’s not surprised in the slightest when Neil starts acting strange; lighter, happier. However, what he doesn’t expect is for the crush to leak into his everyday life—or literally take up residence in his house. Or: five times Stuart knew Neil was hiding a nighttime guest, and one time he actually met him.
5️⃣ 5 times realisation struck Neil & 1 time he acted on it by alex_wh0 (7,5k)
"Neil looked across the room at Andrew and felt a surge of affection so intense that it stuck in his throat. He wondered how someone who had rolled out of bed barely an hour ago could have the audacity to make him feel like this." or Five times Neil Josten had a realisation and one time he did something about it.
5️⃣ Anything But Quiet by lady_flash (16k)
Five times Andrew tries to be quiet, and the one time he lets himself be loud.
5️⃣ You go your way, I'll go your way too by emmerrr (20k)
Neil tries to leave it as long as possible to make his first phone-call to Andrew. He figures the longer he can go without hearing Andrew’s voice, the easier it will be in the long run. He doesn’t quite make it forty-eight hours. (Five times Neil calls Andrew after Andrew has graduated, plus one time Andrew calls Neil)
5️⃣ reckless/i like it by Willow_bird (27k)
One thing didn’t seem to have changed since getting off the drugs. One thing almost seemed to have gotten worse. ”The next time someone comes for you, stand down and let me deal with it. Do you understand?” “If it means losing you, then no.” --- 5 times Andrew realized this something he had for Neil was, well, treacherous + 1 time he admitted (at least to himself) that he liked it
5️⃣ men, abort mission (that is the silver lining in my cloudy disposition) by quensty (2k)
The recorded number of times someone hit on Neil Josten and got nowhere, and the one time Andrew didn't even have to try.
5️⃣ five times. by redblue (4k)
The five times Andrew doesn't say he loves Neil, and the one time he does.
5️⃣ Identity Theft by likearecord (5k)
The Foxes make a bet: will Neil really be able to tell Aaron and Andrew apart if Aaron is deliberately impersonating his twin? Or, Aaron Minyard's adventures in identity theft.
5️⃣ Brother of Mine by Paradoxolotl (12k)
5 times Aaron should have realized Andrew had somebody, and the one time he met him.
5️⃣ Assumptions by Exyissexy25 (22k)
5 times Neil thought that Andrew was pulling away, and 1 time Andrew realized that Neil is an idiot. Features Neil and Andrew learning to communicate.
5️⃣ Just Because I Can by NikNak22 (8k)
Dan and Neil exchange a look. Then Dan sighs, rubbing a hand across her forehead. “Great. Just what we need. A prank war. The last time the team faced one of those, I lost a dealer, a goalie, and someone was nearly blinded.” “All in one day?” Neil quips. AKA: Five times the Foxes were pranked, and the one time the prankster gets their due.
5️⃣ hold on to let go by djhedy, fuzzballsheltiepants, moonix (14k)
Five times Andrew and Neil reunite in the wrong place at the wrong time, and one time everything is just right.
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I know I've made this post before but it absolutely fucking kills me that Andrew's entire outlook on life was "I just have to hold on until I drag Aaron across the finish line," only for Kevin to swoop in and, between fits of hysterical sobbing, somehow still find the time to insist that Andrew has a great life ahead of him, and the breath to belligerently dismiss anybody who argues, especially Andrew.
No wonder they're so antagonistic. No wonder they're best friends. Suddenly Andrew is the one getting dragged to the finish line. If Kevin is wrong, then he's covered in mud for nothing. If he's right, then the finish line is much, much further away than just graduation.
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I had a fantastic time working with Jack Stockdale-Haley of Jack of All Blades! It’s a huge testament to his skill and patience that we were able to get these clips despite my complete lack of stage combat experience!
For more clips from these sessions, art references, archery tutorials, and more, please consider supporting my Patreon
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aftg in a nutshell
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“you don’t know fear until you know me.”
poem from the blog widowbitesandhearingaids
don’t repost | my instagram
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they are so andreil coded
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So, after a life of near total social isolation, Neil’s first real connection you would call friendship is with Kevin
Kevin learned his friendship skills from 1. The Ravens (Mafia sport cult) 2. Andrew
After a life of abuse and abandonment, Andrew’s first real experience of friendship is Renee
And Renee’s main socialization in life before college is 1. Born-again church 2. Knife gang
Feel like the upperclassmen need to cut Neil more slack with the whole “doesn’t understand how normal friendship works” thing. He’s four layers deep into the world’s most unhelpful game of human interaction telephone
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hey! I hope those aftg asks aren’t getting tiring lol but I was wondering if you had any thoughts on the recent fandom treatment of Kevin, which seems to be mainly seeing him as a victim mistreated both in canon by the other foxes & by nora himself? Like I remember in the earlier days of aftg (like maybe around 2016? 2017??) there definitely wasn’t this kind of focus or view of Kevin & I feel like he was treated with somewhat more nuance then? And this could be related to the growing hate for Nora since then but you don’t see people say the same things about the other foxes?? This is a very messy ask lol but I’m genuinely so confused about this trend esp because Kevin seems to be the only fox (as far ive seen anyways) that people are holding up as a victim w/o any nuance
I have a lot of fun answering these, I just sometimes take a minute to get to them lol
Okay so I definitely know what you’re talking about with the Kevin thing. The first major factor is that AFTG has finished coming you years ago, and Nora has not actively engaged with the fandom since 2016. I came around into AFTG in 2017 as a reader, and looking at the fanart. Mostly by then you see the race headcanons locked into place and the beginning of the split between fanon and canon. Without more canon, fanon content starts to develop as whoever is more influential the fan creators (fic authors, fan artists) start to do things that trend. As a time passes in a fandom, it tends to split into niches, people who see things a certain way and want to see more of that follow each other and gain followers who agree with them.
There is definitely a Kevin centric niche that thinks those things. I don’t think there was as much focus in general on Kevin back in 2017, but I also was pretty new. But there were no extreme Anti-Andrew fans, back then it was “you are either a fan of Nicky or a fan of Aaron.” People didnt have “dni choking apologists” on their blogs.
I think choking discourse is a good example of the rise of Kevin. Andrew must fall for Kevin to rise. There are kandreil fans that genuinely like all three, and some ace/aro Kevin fans that like him just as he is, but a lot of Kevin centric content I see now on tumblr is about how Andrew is the real villain of AFTG for choking Kevin, despite Kevin violently choking Neil in book 1.
Back in 2018 they weren’t pitted against the other and I think the whole “you can only like one character or the other” thing is stupid imo. I like Nicky more than Aaron, but I still think they’re both interesting characters. Ive seen a lot of “Kevin was only a victim” takes, and in fact got cyber bullied for a while by some people who thought I was too mean to Kevin in some of my HC by implying he also had some power in the nest and likely hurt others, and that he feels guilt over it. :/ but there is also a similar niche with “you can’t blame Aaron for his homophobia, his mom was abusive, and she likely made him that way.”
It’s the most similar discourse trend I’ve seen to the Kevin discourse. It’s a similar lack of nuance, and I think people inflict it their favorite character because they don’t want to have a ‘problematic fav.’ Aaron is canonly homophobic, Neil says directly after him and Andrew ‘come out’ to the others, that he was waiting to see the same grief Aaron gave Nicky over his sexuality. It doesn’t mean he can’t be also a good character or a person someone likes, in fact well written characters have dimensions and flaws.
Which that whole mess is similar to the whole Kevin thing. I think people fall in love with the idea of Nora’s characters, or maybe the fanon characters–but not the real characters. Which is also why they say the author hates them, because they got written to do bad things or not be in the story as much, they defend these characters as if they were real people who need defending, need to be saved from being erased. These characters become “their character.”
I think this also happens because people kin characters and identify with them a lot, so when I said “Kevin was in a position in power in the nest too, even in second place” and then receive threats for how I personally hurt someone who’s a CSA survivor because of my Kevin HC I’m like (o – o). I think these people project so hard onto Kevin and design him in their mind, they feel as if character flaw HCs or depictions of Kevin struggling and being mean are personal insults, or at least very personally insulting. And I don’t want to sound like an ass, but like my Kevin isn’t the same as their Kevin, my Kevin is my Kevin.
I see skinny art of Andrew and art of Neil as white or ginger, these don’t align with my personal HC’s about them, but like that’s what I chose to go with. Nora uses language that makes me believe Neil has dark auburn hair, but if people want him to be ginger idc. In canon he was written with the intent to be white, I ignore that because I think him being mixed adds more depth to his character (as well as me being tired of only white mlm, and have updated my reading list). Andrew wasn’t imagined by Nora to be fat either, but I HC him as like a mini muscle bear instead of Toby Hemingway.
I keep the canon intent in mind to remind myself how she actually saw them and how that can color canon and how other people are allowed to see Neil as white and Andrew as skinny. Like I understand why people get annoyed over other peoples hc’s, I feel similarly sometimes. But like at the end of the day, you just gotta move out of that fandom niche and into a new one or just ignore the post.
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my biggest obstacle as a writer is that i desperately want to be a popular and well-known fic author, but my main fic inspiration comes from characters most fans don’t want to read fic for, or ideas that go against popular fanon/characterization and so are doomed from the start. i end up feeling paralyzed and like i can’t write the unpopular ideas I want to write, because i hate knowing i could have done better by writing something with broader appeal. but whenever i try to write solely for numbers i lose motivation while the halfway through the fic. so i end up unable to write anything and feeling miserable because of it.
i want to see my unpopular ideas come to life, but i don’t want to see my fics crash and burn and keep missing the chance to create fic that people really love. so most times, i don’t write anything, but i hate that i’m so hamstrung by my own anxieties. i so desperately wish i could create one of those extremely well-known long fics that most people love and always rec everywhere, but i feel like i’m completely incapable of that. i know i should be writing for myself, but i’m greedy and want results and for people to like my fic, however unlikely that is. wanting to write my ideas but knowing i’ll limit my audience if i do is something that’s constantly on my mind. do you have any advice for me?
My biggest question after reading your ask is simply: why?
You're very clear about wanting to be a popular writer. You want to write a fic that lots of people talk about, and you want people to know who you are. Have you examined that desire at all?
You say that the things you actually want to write are not the things that will make you a popular author. That means you have a choice:
write things you don't care about with no guarantee of becoming that Big Name Fan or
write things you love and enjoy spending time writing and know that BNF status will probably never happen.
Writing fanfic is really not a great way to try to become popular. It's an even worse way to try to become "famous" in any kind of way. So dig into what it is that you hope to get from the "broader audience" that you could appeal to by writing something you don't really like.
Are you trying to get a feeling of being liked? Respected? Looked up to? Do you want to be someone other fans look to for advice or for setting the tone of the fandom? Do you want love? Power? Some kind of community connection? Recognition of the effort you put into your works?
Some of those things likely will require you to pretend to be someone you're not. You might even manage to write that one big fic that gets thousands of comments and tons of people talking about it on tumblr (or wherever else you care about, social media-wise).
Others you can probably still get by writing your "unpopular" ideas but seeking out your fellow fans. It will take more legwork to find them and you'll need to be willing to be the first one to reach out for a conversation, but it can definitely be done.
I'll leave it up to you to decide what you actually want, anon. But take your time and scrape off the top layer of shiny thoughts about popularity first. Then you'll be able to see what's underneath.
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Okay so I decided that I am incapable of making the post I wanted to before, so I’ve changed the way I’m doing it. Here are the things that I noticed while reading The Foxhole Court that are often gotten wrong in fanon:
I’m pretty sure Kevin was definitely physically abused in the Nest (and all of it’s sub-categories).
Kevin was actually pretty close with Jean.
Kevin is actually very violent.
Andrew doesn’t fight Kevin’s fights.
Matt’s relationship with Kevin is complicated.
Matt has an understanding with the Monsters.
Andrew doesn’t completely ignore the Upperclassmen – and even willingly interacts with them sometimes.
Andrew actually listens to Dan during practice.
Andrew comforts Kevin. A Lot.
Kevin knows that Andrew doesn’t like the word “Please.”
The way Andrew and Neil act when it comes to touch is so backwards.
I am 100% interested in explaining more and if you want to hear my reasons/see examples of any of these then I am more than willing to share and have a conversation about it!
However, do keep in mind that I gathered all of this from only the first book of the series - so even as confident as I am in this, I am also willing to go through the other two books if you feel that I am wrong about something, or if you want more examples! The point of me sticking to only the first book was to study the behaviors of the characters when they had little to no influence from Neil. Obviously some things do change later in the series! But this list is based only on things I could find in The Foxhole Court.
(Also, final note: Please understand that this is NOT me condemning the entire fandom, or any creators in particular, or anything like that at all. This was purely something I did for my own enjoyment, because I had been going through the book for another reason and began to notice these things. I completely support the creators of all kinds in this fandom, I’m just intrigued to see what kind of content is most often ignored or forgotten by the fandom!)
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Show your father some respect, aftg style
Has this been done yet?
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Smile, kid, smile. The thing that makes us humans
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I absolutely HATE how Kevin Day gets treated by the fandom like he’s this overly cowardly person that has no right to be traumatized because he didn’t have it as “bad” as characters like Andrew or Neil or Jean. Like??? First off, people’s traumas (even if they are fictional) shouldn’t be compared to each other??? Yes, there are DIFFERENCES in traumatic experiences and their severity but that doesn’t mean that peoples reactions to their trauma needs to reflect that.
Throughout the series, Kevin is trying to do his best and play a game that was the exact thing that was associated with his abuser. He was with Riko and Tetsuji for YEARSSSSSS and throughout the series he is trying to stand up against his abusers, people who have so much power that Kevin is aware of first hand, and people try to act like he is weak or cowardly and dramatic??? He does he succeed in standing up to them numerous times throughout the series, but even if he didn’t he is still directly facing the very people who he was essentially trapped with that caused him trauma.
His experiences in life differ from the other aftg characters (just like how EVERYONE does) which means that obviously his reactions are going to be different from others. Saying that he is weak or annoying or overly dramatic with his very realistic and real reactions to his literal abusers is just. so fucked.
Also, before going to the Moriyama’s Kevin was able to have at least a partially normal and loving childhood with his mom, and then getting that ripped away from him? That ALONE is enough to fuck someone up.
Anyways, you can’t compare traumas and peoples reactions to them!!! This turned into a massive ramble that doesn’t even make much sense, but in conclusion: I LOVE KEVIN DAY!
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