ersatz-eye

[ersatz-eye]

One recurring element of criticism of Halsin's romance that frustrates me is this:

Halsin is judged by the worst aspects of the polymance. If the player in particular feels that, say, Shadowheart doesn't/shouldn't be okay with poly, this is an indictment of Halsin and his romance.

HOWEVER, Shadowheart being "wrongly" okay with poly is NOT held against the quality of her romance; it is judged as a whole, with her take on polyamory neatly excised from the criticism.

The other companions are judged exclusively by their solomances, whereas Halsin's solomance is VERY rarely the yardstick used to judge the quality of his writing. Simultaneously, any perceived faults of the handling of polyamory are blamed on Halsin, and Halsin alone- a black mark against him/his character/his story/his romance and no one else.

It seems so blatantly unfair, and it's really hard to point this out without being accused of being an "oversensitive Halsin fan" who "can't take criticism of their fave."

[ersatz-eye]

You must gather your party before venturing forth… some vintage style bg portraits of the faves for fun

[ersatz-eye]

i know people complain/make fun of Astarion's attempt to bite Tav or origin characters because like, he's seen how everyone fights, everyone's on edge, and he thought they wouldn't wake up to him BITING them?

sure, he's pretty desperate but personally i hc him as counting on Tav to wake up. he wants to confess that he's a vampire, he just doesn't know how. whether consciously or subconsciously he wants to get caught, and he chooses who he thinks will most likely hear him out.

it makes even more sense since he still tries to bite you as Karlach, when he should know damn well he can't even touch her.

[ersatz-eye]

Analysis of each character's final words in the new Dark Urge evil ending

If you are romanced to a character, you have the option, when taking the new version of the Sins of the Father ending, to kill your partner in front of the others in your party, killing them with one last kiss. They then give their last words and pass away. I love each and every one and feel they are incredible characterization moments.

So let's break these down!

Lae'zel:

I... I am glad it was you. No other blade would have sufficed.

This is something that hammers home that, Vlaakith or no, Lae'zel deeply believes in all the ideals of a Githyanki. Life is a privilege for the strong, and death is the price of weakness. Further, if romanced, Lae'zel will affectionately call you "the source of my bruises" many times. If she has to die, if she has finally found the one person stronger than herself, then she is "satisfied" that it is you- who she both loved and admired. The only one she would ever consider worthy of besting her.

Karlach:

Fuck you.

Short, simple, and to the point, just the way Karlach does everything else. She's already gone through all her stages of grief with her engine- well, almost all of them. Anger still remains. She burns hot until the end.

Wyll:

I... I forgive you.

This isn't just Wyll being a good guy. This is heartbreak, and guilt. Guilt for not saving you from Bhaal's influence when he was so sure he had. Heartbreak that after he gave his literal soul to save as many people as he could, he couldn't save you- and couldn't save others from you, either. All he sacrificed, negated in an instant by the person he loved and trusted most. Of all the characters here, Wyll (tied with Halsin) sounds the most obviously broken, and it's easy to see why, given that he is self-sacrificing to a fault.

There was a set of scenes datamined from the game, where at the Morphic Pool, the Netherbrain would have taunted the players, causing them to hallucinate things related to their fears and insecurities. Wyll's would have been a vision of himself talking about how he was never a hero, how the Blade of Frontiers was a farce all along. One can't help but think about that scene here, wondering just how much blame, bordering on self-loathing, he might feel here.

Dark Justiciar Shadowheart:

I... I'm coming to you, Lady Shar.

Another short and simple one. By becoming a Dark Justiciar, Shadowheart has fully embraced the nihilism of Shar's teachings. Why be saddened or angry at her own death when this is just what she's embraced with all her sacrifices?

(Sidenote: this does also answer a question I had, namely, what was going to happen to everyone Durge kills. Thankfully it seems they aren't actually going to be sacrificed to him as such, and will indeed end up in the realm of their deities. This makes Bhaal's plan even DUMBER, because deities in DND lore need worshippers to have enough power to exist. Killing everyone at once just guarantees that soon after Durge dies as the last person alive, so too will Bhaal fade from existence.)

Selunite Shadowheart:

I... I thought we were going to save each other...

This Shadowheart rejected everything she knew. She was scared to defy her goddess, but worked up the courage- thanks to you. She thought you would have a new life together. She believed in you. She thought she would get to return the favor, and help you turn the page on Bhaal, too.

She's not just heartbroken for herself; she's heartbroken for you, too. Heartbroken at the life you denied both her and yourself.

Gale:

You made me want to live...

From the moment the orb entered Gale's chest, he knew he was at risk of dying. Then Mystra all but marked him as a dead man walking. But despite that, he finds love with you- and for the first time thinks maybe there is a purpose for him beyond Mystra. That he isn't more useful to the world dead. More than that, he wants to live to be with you, to enjoy your company and companionship. And then you kill him, and do the one thing WORSE than what would have happened if he'd never been pulled from that rock.

It almost would have been kinder to just hack his hand off the first time you met him, though Gale may or may not agree.

Spawn Astarion:

I should have killed you when I had the chance...

The angriest, most bitter response out of all the romanced companions, a step beyond Karlach's "fuck you." This is beyond "fuck you" and even beyond "I hate you." It's "I regret every moment I spent with you." You made him believe he could have better. That he could recover from what Cazador did. You even convinced him to spare the 7,000 spawn and that he could be something better than Cazador.

And now you reveal it was all a lie. Astarion is probably thinking that you talked him out of completing the ritual solely so he'd be easier to kill right here and now. How many regrets are flashing through his mind, how many moments where he wonders if things could have been different if only he'd done this or that, even aside from killing you?

All he wanted was to live as a free person. And then the first time he thinks he has that at last, he loses it as the world ends.

Ascended Astarion:

No... no, this can't be... I can't- you can't- no...

In contrast to spawn Astarion, ascended isn't angry, because he doesn't have the clarity, the ability to process what's happening. Spawn Astarion could tell he'd been betrayed.

But Ascended? Ascended, who went through so much to become one of the most powerful beings in the world, only to STILL lose without fanfare? And by you, his own spawn who he thought he had under his control? It isn't betrayal, because he is bluescreening; he can't comprehend what happened or how or why. How could he have been killed, and by you of all people? Was all he went through killing Cazador really for nothing? How could it be when he was supposed to be the most powerful? Was power actually meaningless all along?

He doesn't say anything of substance because he can't understand what's happening here.

Halsin:

Thaniel... goodbye...

Halsin is the oldest of all the companions. He's experienced the most loss of anyone; his birth family, his fellow Druids, and, for a time, Thaniel. He has had more than enough time to contemplate his own mortality, because he's already lived multiple lifetimes.

So here, two things are happening. One, he isn't expressing anger or betrayal at his murder- because he is more than wise enough, and humble enough, to understand that there are worse things than what has been done to himself. Instead of himself, he is thinking of the world he's leaving behind that is about to fall- and most of all, of his most important person, the one who gave him a purpose, who was there when no one else was, who he failed once and only just got back. The closest thing to a child he'll ever have. In his last moments, instead of himself, Halsin is thinking of those he loves.

And second, it's an almost deliberate snubbing of Durge. He willingly walked into that kiss, knowing full well it would be the last thing he ever did. He gave you his death, he pleaded with his own god to forgive you and him both. He gave you everything he felt he owed you, and no more- no begging or sobbing. Instead, he comes as close as he ever gets to selfishness, and spends his last moments thinking about the thing that makes him the happiest- which could have been you, in another life, if you hadn't done this.

Minthara:

No... we were meant to do this together...

Heartbreak, disbelief, and betrayal. You spent so many nights planning this out. She had been cast aside by her people, her goddess, and she was going to get the last laugh. She was going to crush them personally under her heel and prove she was the best (or second best, behind you) of all of them. She's devastated she won't get to help you torture all those souls and take what she feels was owed to her. But interestingly enough... no anger. Probably because it was overshadowed by the sheer heartbreak, but also a sign that even in those moments, she still admires you for your ruthlessness.

[ersatz-eye]

I am so tired of illiterate dumbasses "informing" all the fandom of things that never happened with Halsin and getting others to take them as fact.

Halsin does not, in fact, fuck animals, much less Tusk (where the fuck did that even come from)

It is, in fact, no longer canon that Halsin killed Isobel. Many fans, including myself, like it and incorporate it into our headcanons, but it is no more canon now than Wyll losing his eye to goblins.

Halsin is not, in fact, Drow-racist. Everything he hates Minthara for is because of her own actions, not because of her being a Drow.

Halsin did not, in fact, ban Drow from the Grove. Drow rarely reach the surface to begin with, let alone feeling a deep affinity for the surface's flora and fauna.

Halsin did not, in fact, mistreat/bully Shadowheart in the Shadow-Cursed Lands. She mocked his trauma, and he responded with a playfully rude remark.

Halsin was not, in fact, added solely because of horny EA players. He was added because of EA players who liked everything about his character, inclding his looks, but not limited to them.

The datamined ultimatum with Minthara was not, in fact, cut before release; it was added after, then abandoned when fans became outraged. Similarly, it is not, in fact, canon that "when this scene was added", Halsin was the one who killed Isobel, making him a "hypocrite."

It is not, in fact, canon that Halsin encourages cheating in relationships.

It is not, in fact, canon that Halsin does not respect boundaries/consent/refuses to take no for an answer.

It is not, in fact, canon that Halsin has a prurient obsession with Thaniel.

It is not, in fact, canon that Halsin is a sex pest.

It is not, in fact, canon that Halsin pressures Astarion/Karlach/Shadowheart into polyamorous relationships they can't consent to.

Etc....

[ersatz-eye]

TBH I feel like if any set of stats for Jaheira/Minsc/Halsin/Minthara should be taken as canon, it should be their pre-recruitment NPC ones, and not the ones after that just redistribute their stats to be the default for their class.

[ersatz-eye]

So here's a very sad pattern for Halsin: he is used to putting his feelings to the side as well as dealing with everything alone.

If the Rite of Thorns completes, he says "The Rite of Thorns...? No. The grove is lost to me. To everyone. It's useless for me to stay here... there's nothing left to fight for. I will find you at your camp, and help you with your problem. Right now, I... I need to go be alone."

In the cut scenario where the player could interfere with Halsin's portal, collapsing it and dooming the Shadow-Cursed Lands: "Words won't repair what's been done to this land. Nothing will... I need to be alone" and "there is nothing more to be said... I need to be alone."

There are also lines in the goblin camp, if Kagha or all of the Druids have been killed, where Halsin indicates that he is experienced in compartmentalizing his emotions until he can feel them properly.

If Kagha dies: "Kagha... This is my fault - I was her teacher. I will mourn her when I can. But there are other matters to attend to before that."

If the Druids die and the player explains (as opposed to taunting Halsin): "Then... then it is as you say. They forgot their principles; you had no choice. I will mourn them when I can. But there are other matters to attend to before that."

It says a lot about Halsin, I think, that he is so ready to put off grieving properly when he learns his second in command or all of his Druids have died, and that he is used to the primary way for him to feel pain is alone.

He says it repeatedly, how he lost his confidantes and peers to the Shadow Curse, and they were replaced with unrelenting responsibility. It was so bad, his isolation so total that the Druids let him slip into a very dark place mentally. He mentions having grown overly fond of honey mead and nights alone (processing his grief entirely alone, and also depending on alcohol to do what human connection couldn't), and that he was so stressed he began to look fondly on his past as a sex slave, because it truly felt like a better alternative for him than what he was currently facing. He was miserable and lonely and honestly, likely very unwell mentally- and no one at his Grove intervened, leading to him having an instinctive need to do everything alone by the time you meet him. He doesn't even expect others to help him physically anymore; listen to how shocked he sounds when you save him from Orin. "You came for me... thank you."

He's so used to having to bear everyone's problems and his own too. It just breaks my heart. :(

[ersatz-eye]

Subby top Halsin

Telling him to be a good boy and wait

Practically following you around by the end of the day until you’re finally alone

He’s not allowed to do anything unless you specifically tell him to

Telling him to slow down, you never told him to move that fast

He obeys but you can see just how much restraint it requires of him not to just fuck you into oblivion

Telling him to stop completely just to tease him

He was so close and now he has to sit still, deep inside you

He whimpers at any slight movement you make and near begs when you clench down around him

You let him move again but only slowly and directly instructed “in” and “out”

When you’ve finally decided the bear is enough of a mess you tell him he can set his own pace

But he has to keep it until he cums

He has no problem setting a harsh pace and keeping it after all of that

Not that he lasts too long anyway, he’s too desperate for that release

When he finally floods your insides and slows back down, you hold your bear close, telling him not to leave just yet

You wanna feel full for a while

[ersatz-eye]

One thing that fascinates me with Halsin is how sometimes, the only way to get him to admit certain things is by being profoundly cruel to him as a player.

For example: the infamous post-Drow scene. He refuses to use the word "captors" to describe the Drow that held him (which is part of why I never got the impression he had actually healed, honestly, but that's a conversation for a different post). Even in the new scene, there is only one way to get him to call his abuse, his rape, what it was. If you are a Lolth-sworn Drow Tav, you have one of the evilest dialogue options in the game-

"So the mighty bear is an escaped pet, then. I wonder if there is a reward for your return..."

To which Halsin responds with a terse, "you would be unwise to attempt it, trust me. In any case, the house of my captors is long extinct." Then he pauses and looks thoughtful, "interesting. Part of me still thought of them as hosts. But I suppose 'captors' is indeed more accurate."

This is the only option the player has that gets him to admit it, and it requires being unspeakably evil to him, threatening to sell him back to his captors.

He romanticized his past as a sex slave (both as a reaction to the Shadow Curse's stresses, and to make his slavery safer in his mind), but when you threaten to sell him back, you make it real for him again, and he is forced to admit it didn't matter if he did "some things that were less than necessary," he still didn't enjoy it, and yes, they were his captors, not his hosts.

The other example is getting him to admit he loves you. Unless you are playing as Origin Karlach (in which case he will use the word under different circumstances near the ending), he won't use the word love to/about you except as a term of endearment. He might use the words "my love", but never says "I love you."

Unless, of course, you decide to be an asshole and say you are breaking up with him, only to change your mind, multiple times, ignoring how increasingly upset he gets each time, accusing you of liking to see him crestfallen. And then, eventually:

"Why would you test my patience like this? Sometimes it is difficult to love you." (Emphasis mine).

Difficult to love you- but he still does. He doesn't break up with you after this, doesn't say this is the last time and next time you bring it up is it... nothing. He still loves you despite you toying with his heart. And much as above, it is the only way to get him to admit out loud that he loves you- by being a complete and utter bastard to him.

I just find it interesting. Sad, but interesting.

[ersatz-eye]

One random thing I find interesting is that Halsin never refers to himself as an elf. He will always say either Druid or Bear, but never Elf. He'll look at himself in the mirror and say "not bad, for a Druid of my vintage", or tell a player after act 2, "I just hope an old bear can be of some service to you", but he never calls himself an "old elf" or anything similar.

[ersatz-eye]

I wonder if it turned out that Orin got pregnant by a Ghost, what would they do and how would they behave (especially Orin, given her character) And I was wondering what Sarevok meant in the dialogue with the dark urge, that Orin had treated him badly🤔

Oh, god, neither of them should be allowed to be parents.

That's not to say I haven't thought about it. You know, I'm usually not the sort of person that thinks much about characters having children (I can't say I've ever really thought about it much before for any other characters in which I've been interested), but the possibility of the two of them having a child together has haunted me for quite a while now, primarily for the reason that it's One Simple Thing that could make their already deeply messed up situation significantly worse.

From a purely practical perspective, neither Ghost nor Orin would particularly enjoy having a child around. Ghost is too self-interested, impatient, and easily repulsed to deal with a child, especially an infant. And Orin, based on her own childhood, has plenty of reasons to be suspicious of the consequences of having a child; as it grew up, she would grow increasingly fearful that Bhaal would come to prefer her child over her, an event which history tells would likely end in Orin's demise. But aside from that, I also can't imagine that she'd be a good parent, given that she never experienced much parenting herself.

That being said, I think they both desperately fantasize about conceiving a child together. A lot has already been said about the apparent innate Bhaalspawn urge to propagate more Bhaalspawn, so I've little to add on to that thread; suffice to say that the two of them talked quite a lot about it, primarily while having sex.

There were several years before the betrayal when Niro and Orin were rawing each other regularly. Barring other causes of infertility, it's pretty remarkable that they didn't actually conceive a child during that time, and I believe that that's no accident or matter of luck. No matter how appealing she personally found the idea of conceiving a child, I think that Orin was responsible for preventing them from actually doing so (though I'm not sure she did so intentionally).

(What follows is fully my own take on Orin; I make no claims to this being rooted in her canon, even more so than usual.) I think Orin does not have a biological sex, by which I mean that when she was born, she possessed no recognizable external sex characteristics, and in the years before she could control her shapeshifting particularly well, her apparent biological sex changed regularly enough that she had no clear "true" sex. By the time she reached maturity, biological sex was completely arbitrary to her. Her body often appears to have a biological sex, but sometimes it doesn't, and she mixes and matches parts as she pleases. I believe her control over her sex extends to her internal reproductive organs, which she lacks by default, but which might be possessed by forms she takes on.

(As an aside, I think it's an interesting duality that, in my own personal canon, Orin has a gender but lacks a sex, while Niro has a sex but lacks a gender.)

In the time before the betrayal, I think that she chose not to possess internal reproductive organs for much of the time that she was having potentially-conceptive sex with Niro. I'm not sure how conscious that choice was; it may have been an internal decision she didn't even realize she'd made, motivated by that deep-seated fear of the potentially life-ending consequences of bearing a Bhaalspawn child.

I don't think the possibility of them having a child is fully off the table in the Ghost-returns-to-Orin canon. It'd be a long ways down the road, certainly, but I think there are circumstances under which they could both end up drifting down that path. Those circumstances would almost certainly be messy.

They'd absolutely have an interesting-looking kid, though.

As for the question about Sarevok's lines regarding the relationship between the Dark Urge and Orin: as a general rule, I'm very willing to believe that the statements made by characters in game, particularly known villains, are motivated statements that are not necessarily true. When the Dark Urge is speaking to Sarevok in game, Sarevok appears to have an interest in encouraging a conflict between them and Orin. It is my opinion that that is sufficient motivation for him to say what he believes will help incite that conflict, namely, sowing seeds of vengeance in the mind of one who seems not to remember very much about the truth of that relationship. I think my overall thesis here is that (1) it is perfectly reasonable that Sarevok said to Ghost that Orin treated him badly if Sarevok is lying, and (2) Sarevok has very clear reasons to lie and no clear reasons not to lie in that scenario.

[ersatz-eye]

hi og baldur’s gate fandom i beat up sarevok not that long ago ( in the most hilarious way might i add ) and. sorry about what bg3 did to your chaotic redemption arc murder blorbo

if i may offer

and hope this doesn’t contradict canon at all:

bhaal throwing a bitchfit that his spawn got turned to the chaotic good side and just making. Sarevok 2.0

the version of sarevok that he wants

bc lbr bhaal making & using a weird meat puppet copy of one of his kids to flanderize said kid and make more weird spawns(tm) ( hi orin sorry abt ur everything girlie )

isn’t the furthest stretch methinks? if he can make the dark urge he can make a weird copy of his son :V

smash cut to the real sarevok just. Out There. doing his thing. whatever that is now.

returns to the coast eventually.

wym you killed me again i was alive the whole time—???

anyway thanks for reading all this - as a bonus, please enjoy me making sarevok do a lil dance and laugh his ass off:

[ersatz-eye]

Confession: bhaal's top three family values: daddy issues, incest and blood kinks <3

[ersatz-eye]

Confession: I desperately need the resident Gortash/Orin/Ketheric fuckers to go back and play Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 because they'd be delighted to know there is someone even worse than those three for them to thirst over. I'm talking about Sarevok Anchev. Yes, Orin's bricked up grandpa. Yes, he's the antagonist in the first game. Yes, he's a companion in the second one. Yes, you will want him to break you in two.

[ersatz-eye]

I want Sarevok to reduce my Durge to nothing but a mindless breeding whore who exists only to bear him more Bhaalspawn

[ersatz-eye]

invents a phone so he can call his girlfriend business associate

[ersatz-eye]

Confession: Enver peeing in my mouth and on my face and just using me as a toilet would fix me, I think. Or make me worse. But it would be fun either way