discoursediary

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religion isn’t a negative thing, i wish the system community stopped treating it like it was.

many systems are religious and/or spiritual. a religion itself isn’t bad :(

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Holy fuck guys. What someone calls their own system, how someone views their own system, says about their own system, or does within their own system is not for you to give unwanted negative commentary on. It isn't harming you, no framework someone could have for their own system is harming you. Whether their framework is actually helping them or they have it because they aren't far enough in recovery to see it isn't helping is none of your business and doesn't matter. The internal framework of someone else's system has no inherent morality.

And because I think these two topics are somewhat related

It is possible to call out bad behavior without fakeclaiming or otherwise disrespecting someone's identity. Whether you are comfortable with someone's identity or system framework has no relationship to whether their behavior is acceptable. Separating these two is important.

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Uhh no idea if to put this here or on my origincourse blog. Anyway I will just put it here.

I agree, hyperfixating can be very stressful. Some of us even hate our own hyperfixations to the point of it being traumatizing to engage with them. We don't always control what they are and can't always stop them. Additionally it isn't even that uncommon for traumagenic systems to split for reasons seemingly unrelated to stress and trauma.

But this isn't an anti endo thing. Plenty of anti endos split from hyperfixating. Plenty don't believe others can't even if they don't themself. A few pro endos do believe it or at least think it is rare for traumagenic (regarding how the system itself was created, not how individual headmates were made) system to have this happen (it isn't). This isn't really related to origincourse even if it seems to be on the surface.

Damn okay since this seems to suddenly be so damn controversial in the system space all of a sudden let’s be clear.

Autism and hyper fixations are not just “liking a character or media” so no when people say they split an alter from hyperfixation it’s not just because they like it.

Hyper-fixations can be stressful af, your head literally cannot focus on anything else and can spark denial that oh well I’m so focused on stuff I really really enjoy so I must just be dramatic about my symptoms.

That shit is stressful, autism is not always this bright bubbly disorder as those of you in this tag seem to be suggesting. It’s also a way of coping very often especially those in less than ideal situations and circumstances, and with all that stress rattling around in the brain.

Yes, yes you can split from hyper-fixations but ya’ll anti endos are so damn obsessed with being “the right system” that you don’t even seem to understand how your own disorder works.

Also for folk who think that people who make cute SP and PK profiles are “fakers” get an actual grip and learn to focus on your own system and disorder before dictating what others do.

Some of us enjoy having control of what little we can while struggling with these dissociative disorders, and other origin systems are allowed to just have colourful profiles.

But you’re all not ready for that conversation yet.

- a diagnosed polyfrag system

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This is not meant as a personal attack but this needs to be very clearly rebutted so this will be blunt.

1. People have the right to choose what is and isn't to risky for them. Your experience is valid but that doesn't effect the rights of others to make decisions about their own life and recovery. Having DID does not mean someone should be treated as incapable of making their own life decisions.

2. A DID space online is in essence just a large friend group. Friend groups also tend to form based on shared traits and there are plenty of even irl system friend groups. Functionally, the only way a did centered space and a friend group of DID systems differ things are different is average size, and even with that there is significant overlap between large friend groups and small spaces. It is not okay to prevent people from choosing their own social groups.

Saying someone should not be allowed to live as they choose based solely on a mental illness diagnosis is ableism and saneism. Though that likely wasn't the intention, this suggestion is inherently ableist and saneist.

Please place the blame and consequence for the danger of system spaces where it belongs, bad actors taking advantage of vulnerable people, and not suggest taking rights from those with mental illness (the victims). Spread around the warning signs of grooming and abuse. Speak up about bad behavior. Don't take peoples' dignity and the ability of people to make their own choices.

Duskcourse Controversial Take 3

I know I'm going to get a lot of flack for this but at this point this is a genuine concern of safety in my honest opinion. There is genuinely no way to create a safe DID exclusive community online without therapists involved and it being a therapeutic group.

There should be no DID exclusive spaces online without third party moderation.

Now some people are going to react aggressively to this sentiment, they're going to get incredibly upset with me and see this as me wanting to take things away from them. The truth couldn't be further from that. I do think that it's important for people with DID such as myself to be able to find others and talk to them, I think our experiences feel more validated through having met others with the disorder. However the sheer amount of harm that we've experienced from the environments of DID exclusive spaces and some of the behavior of other systems especially those who I specifically became close with due to having a similar disorder has made it clear to me it's simply not safe.

You know what being someone with DID tells the bad people in these small enclosed communities? That you're vulnerable to abuse, manipulation, and may forget how bad their abuse is. There's this underlying idea that people have that others with DID are safe. In my case I was treated horrifically for having grown up in a cult and daring to mention it offhandedly. To this first server I was seen as literally the same as my abusers because clearly me mentioning my trauma would cause people to die for whatever reason. The second server wasn't actually an exclusive space, but the mentality from these exclusive spaces stuck with me. Others with DID obviously were safer to be around and understood me better and are naturally safe... she even had a plural section in her server. My ideas taken from the way people seemed to put those who have the same disorders on a pedestal of further safety than any others are what lead to me getting groomed and abused for two years by my mentor and her partner who was another mentor for me. This lead to them introducing me to their friend, my ex-friend and third groomer.

Of course now I am aware my past mentor was lying about having DID then claimed OSDD but from my current awareness is actually an endogenic system. This however doesn't erase the fact I found her due to claims of having DID and trusted her more intensely than others. I relied on her in a deeply unhealthy way the same amount and then more over and over again as I had in DID exclusive spaces.

DID is a deeply stressful and debilitating disability. Regardless of how hard you try to make a safe online community (specifically discord) you will not be able to. People with these very extreme conditions who aren't far enough into therapy and recovery should not be making communities when they're incredibly unstable themselves. People with severely unstable conditions should not be throwing themselves into places where people often claim to be a provider, psuedo-parent, a place of safety and knowing how to make them do better while nobody is a professional or a therapist. The amount of harm done to people from being convinced of things that hurts them and their recovery as well is horrific.

Most people with DID also have a lot of comorbidities. Putting a bunch of severely mentally ill and deeply traumatized people is a recipe for disaster. The amount of times people trigger each other into spiraling or blow up at one another due to comorbid disorders leads to the entire experience being between walking on eggshell and hot coals. These spaces are not safe as they're never equipped to handle the sheer amount of issues that all of us bring.

For example we ourselves have massive comorbidities. I have ADHD, Autism, Bipolar 1, Depression, Anxiety, OCD, PTSD, and C-PTSD. I know I'm not stable enough to be able to moderate communities that include others with things like that too as I'm a 20 year old with no professional experience and a degree in something else. I've known people with longer lists of disorders than mine who moderate DID exclusive spaces and they get fucked over for it because of the sheer amount of horrific topics they have to shift through in that moderation.

I think there can be stuff like the Tumblr community where it's less centrally organized and has moderation done by the affirm already. But specific servers and exclusive communities without third parties are dangerous.

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Reblog if you wouldn't mind some curious anons

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Hot take, whether or not an introject has changed their name has no real bearing on if they're source separated or not

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Why is syscourse judging communities solely by behavior that only comes from a small fraction of said community and most of the community thinks is unacceptable?

If you only look at communities through that lense every community is horrible.

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Sometimes reading through the stance-specific tags is like reading through a scrapbook of the worst syscourse takes known to man.

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There is something seriously wrong with syscourse labels.

The way I see these terms commonly used by my others, I would be an anti endo sysmed. But also pro endo anti-sysmed. And neutral. Hmmm.....

I feel like clearer definitions, and making the labels actually about what they seem to be about on the surface would help things. But I doubt that is possible anymore. At least not without a complete overhaul of the syscourse stance labeling system that functions by using more than just pro/anti one thing as a representation of stance and doesn't use historically problematic terms that have already been used as insults as stances.

Overall though, in most cases it might be best to forego labels completely (or be like me and just decide to embrace the ridiculousness and say your all of them). Every side of this debates' loudest members seem to be the extreme ones who will weaponize any label they can, and foregoing labels makes it just a little harder for them to do this.

Systems, I've been seeing a lot of talk about changing the stance labels and I was curious what everyone's thoughts were. Do you think we should change them to something else and if so what would you like your sides stance label to be changed too? Or alternatively would it be better to get rid of the labels altogether?

Please refrain from hate filled attacks against any individual, syscourse stance, or identity. These will be deleted/users blocked.

Feel free to utilize anons for anonymity.

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Syscourse is a bunch of people lashing out because the "other side" did something that upset or hurt them in some way.

Now, everybody needs a place to vent when something hurtful is said and need a place to explain to others why it was hurtful.

That isn't an issue, exactly. But what is an issue is people fail to recognize this and recognize the effects it has.

It is the reason why everyone here is so hostile constantly, why Anti Endo and Pro Endo are associated with much more than what someone thinks about endogenic systems, and why the misinformation on both sides is so hard to dispell.

Some element of the other extreme has hurt them somehow. Pushing the other extreme on them is never going to work, because something about it is causing them real pain.

I also think people need to consider that sometimes what you think it is that is causing them pain isn't exactly what it really is, I see a lot of assumptions made about what the other side is thinking (coming from both sides), and having looked at what both sides are saying I can tell you a lot of these assumptions are often wrong.

I highly encourage people look deeper than the surface as to what the other side is really thinking.

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Singlets in syscourse is a very nuanced topic. Personally, I believe that it is human nature for people to develop opinions on topics they are exposed to, which means if a singlet is frequently exposed to syscourse it would be expected that they will develop an opinion on it. But imo singlets still need to remember they are not systems and therefore do not have personal firsthand experience as being one. They can't know exactly what it is like and need to recognize systems are going to have better perspective on why systems and the system community are the way they are and do the things they do. It really should be the people experiencing the thing being talked about who are the main people leading the discussion about it.

Obviously things get even more fuzzy when it comes to syscourse topics that include singlets, but that is not usually the sort of situation that sparks this conversation anyway.

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Oh boy stepping out of my nice cozy syscord servers and semi-safe Tumblr tags into viewing what the prevailing opinions about systems everywhere else on the internet are is always a jolt.

Singlets (and other systems) not be weird about systems enjoying their life simply because you don't/wouldn't enjoy having the same experiences they are challenge: fail

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Some tips for getting songs that are stuck in your head out, from somebeings who have this problem more than they would like to admit.

1. Listen to the song stuck in your head once, all the way through, while paying at least some attention to it. This will, hopefully, get your mind past whatever part of the song it cuts off at in your head and let the song leave.

2. If 1 can't be used for some reason, find a really catchy song and play it until halfway through the catchiest bit and cut it off before the catchy part stops. Do not finish the song. This is meant to put the new song you are listening to in your head so make sure to choose a song you like.

3. If neither of the above has worked, try to make yourself feel emotions opposite (or if opposite isn't reasonable just strongly different from) what the song makes you feel. (Ignore what the lyrics say the song is supposed to make you feel, we are talking about what vibes and emotions you actually feel with it). You can do this by any means, listening to other music, engaging in some activity, watching TV, and more are all ways I have used.

Anyways, hope this helps someone. These have all worked for me in the past.

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People, this is the internet. There are people who want to convince you of things.

Even if someone agrees with everything else you believe, don't just take what they say as fact without doing some critical thinking. Agreeing with you does not make someone a credible source.

This goes doubly when this person is not someone you have had one on one interactions with. A random Tumblr blog screenshotting from some random Twitter user and not even adding further context to the tweet is not posting in complete good faith. They are trying to convince you of something that aligns own personal interests.

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Since this is going to come up sometime, and I would rather rip off this particular bandaid right now, "literally an endo" and "anti-endo" are both at least somewhat accurate statements of me. You can ask for further clarification, but I don't really think things are going to get less confusing. Partially because I am a rambler and it will be multiple paragraphs of wordiness, partially because both of those above statements have different definitions to different people, and partially because this is a complex topic in the first place.

Regardless, anyone can interact.

Endogenic plurality will come up when it is relevant to whatever we feel like talking about but is unlikely to come up without further context relating it to something else because "endos do/don't exist"" is a topic so worn out that unless something new happens outside of syscourse Tumblr that gives new info or relevance, there really isn't a point to post about it. Also just live and let live.

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Yes I hear you complaining that another alter did that.

And yes I as an alter probably would not have done that.

But that was still completely reasonable even though it wasn't exactly what I would have done, and simply not reacting the exact same way you expected or wanted is not bad behavior.

Yes. We as a system take 100% accountability for behaving like that, and would most definitely do that again. There is nothing inherently a problem with that, and by us telling you we are a system you were most definitely warned that not everyone acts exactly like the host nor wants to, because that is what we meant by "we are a system and sometimes other alters front who are not exactly like the host". Hope that appeases you. We hope you understand that no further action will be taken on our part to change anything.

Sometimes system accountability is saying “yes I hear you didn’t like an alters actions. I stand behind those actions 100% though. They reacted reasonably to unreasonable events”

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New pfp!